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RE: [Hammock Camping] weather shield vs. larger tarp

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  • Stuhr, Tim
    Scott, The problem with using the HH SuperShelter Undercover as a weathershield is that it s not big enough to cover the JRB Nest without compressing it. It
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
      Scott,
      The problem with using the HH SuperShelter Undercover as a weathershield
      is that it's not big enough to cover the JRB Nest without compressing
      it. It has been used by some (myself included) between the Nest and the
      hammock as a windbreak but that won't do any good for protecting the
      Nest as a weathershield.

      Stoikurt

      -----Original Message-----
      From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
      Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:23 AM
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Hammock Camping] weather shield vs. larger tarp

      I am looking for advice, or experiences. I am considering making a
      large
      tarp for a few reasons.

      1) for the experience
      2) to protect my underquilt
      3) protect from wind, rain, bad weather

      I currently have an HH backpacker light with the small asym tarp. I
      like
      the tarp because it is small and light weight. I am planning on
      switching
      from the HH super shelter to a JRB Nest as an underquilt. I already own
      a
      Nest and love it. It may help shave a little weight too.

      I really like to keep things light and am wondering if I could get away
      with
      using something like the Hennessey Weather Shield Bottom, instead of
      making,
      or purchasing a larger tarp to protect my underquilt. I have never used
      an
      underquilt yet so I am not really sure what to expect.

      Hmmm, maybe there is some way I could convert my HH supershelter to
      something like the HH Weather Shield Bottom.

      Any questions, comments, concerns and advice is greatly appreciated.
      Thanks.

      --
      Scott
      www.AntiFuel.com

      Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • tim garner
      Stuhr, Tim wrote: Scott, The problem with using the HH SuperShelter Undercover as a weathershield is that it s not big enough to cover the
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
        "Stuhr, Tim" <tstuhr@...> wrote: Scott,
        The problem with using the HH SuperShelter Undercover as a weathershield
        is that it's not big enough to cover the JRB Nest without compressing
        it. It has been used by some (myself included) between the Nest and the
        hammock as a windbreak but that won't do any good for protecting the
        Nest as a weathershield.

        Stoikurt

        also, the weather shield is water proof (non-breathable) so if you use it on the outside of the nest, you will soon have a damp/wet nest from condensation. ...tim



        don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


        ---------------------------------
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      • tim garner
        dave, is that tarp that is closed on the end just a rectangular tarp w/ extra tie outs a foot or so in from the corners? and that s not t-back brian is it?
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
          dave, is that tarp that is closed on the end just a rectangular tarp w/ extra tie outs a foot or so in from the corners?
          and that's not t-back brian is it? ..tim

          Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: Scott,

          It is my opinion that a rectangular shaped tarp provides more
          protection from wind, rain and bad weather than tarps that can be
          visualized as rectangular tarps with portions of the ends cut off, ie
          diamond shaped or hex shaped. These tarps trade off coverage and
          flexibility for lighter weight and a setup that sometimes requires
          less stakes and guylines.

          There is obviously a place for both maximum protection style tarps and
          minimum protection and middle protection tarps. The colder the
          weather the more important protection from the wind becomes, so in one
          sense you could make it a warm weather versus cold weather argument.
          On long trips without any other shelter you might appreciate more
          coverage when you have to live under a tarp in prolonged rains for
          cooking, changing clothes, etc. Rectangular tarps also provide much
          better rain and splash protection if you want to sleep on the ground
          with a tarp.

          A rectangular tarp with center tie-outs along the sides can be rigged
          similar to a diamond shaped tarp with one end or both ends partially
          closed off for wind protection. I've done that many times when I have
          been in exposed sites and the wind picked up on me. When I set up in a
          conventional A-frame, I had to get up and reposition two stakes to
          block off the wind coming at me from one end of the tarp; if I
          suspected the wind might come from that direction I just set my tarp
          up that way. This is a link to some photos of how I did this a month
          or so ago when I was expecting wind and snow at an exposed site-
          http://tinyurl.com/ys4hnb . You can't do that with diamond shaped or
          hex shaped tarps because that portion of the tarp simply isn't
          there... you have to rely on something else like WeatherShields or
          SuperShelters or some other scheme to make up for not having enough
          tarp to do the job. With that tarp, I can hang it high and wide to
          have an excellent view and ample rain protection from most rains or
          hang it low and tight to block off most winds and shed snow. You do
          want a steeper pitch to shed snow, it doesn't roll off like water. It
          has to slide off and if the pitch isn't steep enough it will get heavy
          enough to cause a tarp to droop and collect enough to cause a major
          problem with the weight of the snow.

          Dave Womble
          aka Youngblood 2000
          .


          don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


          ---------------------------------
          Need Mail bonding?
          Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dave Womble
          Tim, That is a different Brian, the one that runs the GeorgiaHikes web site that I frequent. That is the same tarp you have seen me use for years at Hot
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
            Tim,

            That is a different Brian, the one that runs the GeorgiaHikes web site
            that I frequent. That is the same tarp you have seen me use for years
            at Hot Springs. It has three tie outs on each side-- one at each
            corner and one along the side at the center. The angle of the photo is
            playing that optical illusion game on you. <grin>

            Brian had used a heater in the loft of the shelter, had his camera out
            in the morning and took a few other photos of my setup. It was cold
            enough that I didn't want to mess with my camera... I would have had
            to warm it up before it would have even worked. Anyway he posted them
            on Picasa, a free site you have to sign in to see that is at this
            link: http://picasaweb.google.com/brian.tant .

            Dave

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
            >
            > dave, is that tarp that is closed on the end just a rectangular
            tarp w/ extra tie outs a foot or so in from the corners?
            > and that's not t-back brian is it? ..tim
            >
            > Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: Scott,
            >
            > It is my opinion that a rectangular shaped tarp provides more
            > protection from wind, rain and bad weather than tarps that can be
            > visualized as rectangular tarps with portions of the ends cut off, ie
            > diamond shaped or hex shaped. These tarps trade off coverage and
            > flexibility for lighter weight and a setup that sometimes requires
            > less stakes and guylines.
            >
            > There is obviously a place for both maximum protection style tarps and
            > minimum protection and middle protection tarps. The colder the
            > weather the more important protection from the wind becomes, so in one
            > sense you could make it a warm weather versus cold weather argument.
            > On long trips without any other shelter you might appreciate more
            > coverage when you have to live under a tarp in prolonged rains for
            > cooking, changing clothes, etc. Rectangular tarps also provide much
            > better rain and splash protection if you want to sleep on the ground
            > with a tarp.
            >
            > A rectangular tarp with center tie-outs along the sides can be rigged
            > similar to a diamond shaped tarp with one end or both ends partially
            > closed off for wind protection. I've done that many times when I have
            > been in exposed sites and the wind picked up on me. When I set up in a
            > conventional A-frame, I had to get up and reposition two stakes to
            > block off the wind coming at me from one end of the tarp; if I
            > suspected the wind might come from that direction I just set my tarp
            > up that way. This is a link to some photos of how I did this a month
            > or so ago when I was expecting wind and snow at an exposed site-
            > http://tinyurl.com/ys4hnb . You can't do that with diamond shaped or
            > hex shaped tarps because that portion of the tarp simply isn't
            > there... you have to rely on something else like WeatherShields or
            > SuperShelters or some other scheme to make up for not having enough
            > tarp to do the job. With that tarp, I can hang it high and wide to
            > have an excellent view and ample rain protection from most rains or
            > hang it low and tight to block off most winds and shed snow. You do
            > want a steeper pitch to shed snow, it doesn't roll off like water. It
            > has to slide off and if the pitch isn't steep enough it will get heavy
            > enough to cause a tarp to droop and collect enough to cause a major
            > problem with the weight of the snow.
            >
            > Dave Womble
            > aka Youngblood 2000
            > .
            >
            >
            > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Need Mail bonding?
            > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • tim garner
            ok, i looked at the picture again & i see that the extra tie out is mid way on the side. can you tell me again the size of that tarp? i like that set-up. i
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
              ok, i looked at the picture again & i see that the extra tie out is mid way on the side. can you tell me again the size of that tarp? i like that set-up.
              i started using picasa a while back & it's by far the best picture storage i've used. ...tim
              PS... getting close to SEHHA at hot springs time!!!
              Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: Tim,

              That is a different Brian, the one that runs the GeorgiaHikes web site
              that I frequent. That is the same tarp you have seen me use for years
              at Hot Springs. It has three tie outs on each side-- one at each
              corner and one along the side at the center. The angle of the photo is
              playing that optical illusion game on you.

              Brian had used a heater in the loft of the shelter, had his camera out
              in the morning and took a few other photos of my setup. It was cold
              enough that I didn't want to mess with my camera... I would have had
              to warm it up before it would have even worked. Anyway he posted them
              on Picasa, a free site you have to sign in to see that is at this
              link: http://picasaweb.google.com/brian.tant .

              Dave

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner wrote:
              >
              > dave, is that tarp that is closed on the end just a rectangular
              tarp w/ extra tie outs a foot or so in from the corners?
              > and that's not t-back brian is it? ..tim
              >
              > Dave Womble wrote: Scott,
              >
              > It is my opinion that a rectangular shaped tarp provides more
              > protection from wind, rain and bad weather than tarps that can be
              > visualized as rectangular tarps with portions of the ends cut off, ie
              > diamond shaped or hex shaped. These tarps trade off coverage and
              > flexibility for lighter weight and a setup that sometimes requires
              > less stakes and guylines.
              >
              > There is obviously a place for both maximum protection style tarps and
              > minimum protection and middle protection tarps. The colder the
              > weather the more important protection from the wind becomes, so in one
              > sense you could make it a warm weather versus cold weather argument.
              > On long trips without any other shelter you might appreciate more
              > coverage when you have to live under a tarp in prolonged rains for
              > cooking, changing clothes, etc. Rectangular tarps also provide much
              > better rain and splash protection if you want to sleep on the ground
              > with a tarp.
              >
              > A rectangular tarp with center tie-outs along the sides can be rigged
              > similar to a diamond shaped tarp with one end or both ends partially
              > closed off for wind protection. I've done that many times when I have
              > been in exposed sites and the wind picked up on me. When I set up in a
              > conventional A-frame, I had to get up and reposition two stakes to
              > block off the wind coming at me from one end of the tarp; if I
              > suspected the wind might come from that direction I just set my tarp
              > up that way. This is a link to some photos of how I did this a month
              > or so ago when I was expecting wind and snow at an exposed site-
              > http://tinyurl.com/ys4hnb . You can't do that with diamond shaped or
              > hex shaped tarps because that portion of the tarp simply isn't
              > there... you have to rely on something else like WeatherShields or
              > SuperShelters or some other scheme to make up for not having enough
              > tarp to do the job. With that tarp, I can hang it high and wide to
              > have an excellent view and ample rain protection from most rains or
              > hang it low and tight to block off most winds and shed snow. You do
              > want a steeper pitch to shed snow, it doesn't roll off like water. It
              > has to slide off and if the pitch isn't steep enough it will get heavy
              > enough to cause a tarp to droop and collect enough to cause a major
              > problem with the weight of the snow.
              >
              > Dave Womble
              > aka Youngblood 2000
              > .
              >
              >
              > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Need Mail bonding?
              > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              Yahoo! Groups Links






              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


              ---------------------------------
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave Womble
              ... is mid way on the side. can you tell me again the size of that tarp? i like that set-up. ... picture storage i ve used. ...tim ... Tim, It is this one
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                >
                > ok, i looked at the picture again & i see that the extra tie out
                is mid way on the side. can you tell me again the size of that tarp?
                i like that set-up.
                > i started using picasa a while back & it's by far the best
                picture storage i've used. ...tim
                > PS... getting close to SEHHA at hot springs time!!!

                Tim,

                It is this one
                http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/photos/browse/1da8 or
                one of its brothers.

                Dave
              • Scott
                Great photos!!! Where were the photos of the goats taken? ... -- Scott www.AntiFuel.com Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open.
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
                  Great photos!!! Where were the photos of the goats taken?

                  On 4/4/07, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > ok, i looked at the picture again & i see that the extra tie out is mid
                  > way on the side. can you tell me again the size of that tarp? i like that
                  > set-up.
                  > i started using picasa a while back & it's by far the best picture storage
                  > i've used. ...tim
                  > PS... getting close to SEHHA at hot springs time!!!
                  > Dave Womble <dpwomble@... <dpwomble%40yahoo.com>> wrote: Tim,
                  >
                  > That is a different Brian, the one that runs the GeorgiaHikes web site
                  > that I frequent. That is the same tarp you have seen me use for years
                  > at Hot Springs. It has three tie outs on each side-- one at each
                  > corner and one along the side at the center. The angle of the photo is
                  > playing that optical illusion game on you.
                  >
                  > Brian had used a heater in the loft of the shelter, had his camera out
                  > in the morning and took a few other photos of my setup. It was cold
                  > enough that I didn't want to mess with my camera... I would have had
                  > to warm it up before it would have even worked. Anyway he posted them
                  > on Picasa, a free site you have to sign in to see that is at this
                  > link: http://picasaweb.google.com/brian.tant .
                  >
                  > Dave
                  >

                  --
                  Scott
                  www.AntiFuel.com

                  Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Scott
                  Thanks for all the great info! I think I will go with a square tarp and skip the weather shield. I think the Speer Tarp is the one I will make because it
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
                    Thanks for all the great info!

                    I think I will go with a square tarp and skip the weather shield. I think
                    the Speer Tarp is the one I will make because it is very straight forward,
                    and I have already made one for someone else.


                    Now to find some 1.1oz camo rip stop........


                    Anyone know of a good website to learn how to sew the seems
                    recommended when sewing the Speer tarp?
                    >
                    >
                    --
                    Scott
                    www.AntiFuel.com

                    Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • amendment2@aol.com
                    Try the rainshed in Corvallis Oregon. Google it. In a message dated 4/4/2007 8:04:52 PM Central Daylight Time, hacktorious@gmail.com writes: Thanks for all
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
                      Try the rainshed in Corvallis Oregon. Google it.

                      In a message dated 4/4/2007 8:04:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
                      hacktorious@... writes:

                      Thanks for all the great info!

                      I think I will go with a square tarp and skip the weather shield. I think
                      the Speer Tarp is the one I will make because it is very straight forward,
                      and I have already made one for someone else.

                      Now to find some 1.1oz camo rip stop........

                      Anyone know of a good website to learn how to sew the seems
                      recommended when sewing the Speer tarp?






                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • tim garner
                      some how that simple concept of a single tie out in the middle has slipped me. but i like it! simple but effective. and light weight too. ...tim ... is
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 4, 2007
                        some how that simple concept of a single tie out in the middle has slipped me.
                        but i like it! simple but effective. and light weight too. ...tim

                        Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner wrote:
                        >
                        > ok, i looked at the picture again & i see that the extra tie out
                        is mid way on the side. can you tell me again the size of that tarp?
                        i like that set-up.
                        > i started using picasa a while back & it's by far the best
                        picture storage i've used. ...tim
                        > PS... getting close to SEHHA at hot springs time!!!

                        Tim,

                        It is this one
                        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/photos/browse/1da8 or
                        one of its brothers.

                        Dave





                        Yahoo! Groups Links






                        don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                        ---------------------------------
                        Bored stiff? Loosen up...
                        Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • tim garner
                        try this... http://www.thru-hiker.com/workshop.asp?subcat=11&cid=87 amendment2@aol.com wrote: Try the rainshed in Corvallis Oregon. Google it. In a message
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 8, 2007
                          try this...
                          http://www.thru-hiker.com/workshop.asp?subcat=11&cid=87


                          amendment2@... wrote:
                          Try the rainshed in Corvallis Oregon. Google it.

                          In a message dated 4/4/2007 8:04:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
                          hacktorious@... writes:

                          Thanks for all the great info!

                          I think I will go with a square tarp and skip the weather shield. I think
                          the Speer Tarp is the one I will make because it is very straight forward,
                          and I have already made one for someone else.

                          Now to find some 1.1oz camo rip stop........

                          Anyone know of a good website to learn how to sew the seems
                          recommended when sewing the Speer tarp?






                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          Yahoo! Groups Links






                          don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                          ---------------------------------
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                          with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

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                        • farpost
                          Dave, The picture of your tarp closed up tight for bad weather looks effective. But, are you able to sleep on a diagonal in that configuration? It seems like
                          Message 12 of 27 , Apr 9, 2007
                            Dave,

                            The picture of your tarp closed up tight for bad weather looks
                            effective. But, are you able to sleep on a diagonal in that
                            configuration? It seems like you would be poking into the tarp sides
                            enough to create a risk of cold spots.

                            Scott

                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > It is my opinion that a rectangular shaped tarp provides more
                            > protection from wind, rain and bad weather than tarps that can be
                            > visualized as rectangular tarps with portions of the ends cut off, ie
                            > diamond shaped or hex shaped. These tarps trade off coverage and
                            > flexibility for lighter weight and a setup that sometimes requires
                            > less stakes and guylines.
                            >
                          • Dave Womble
                            Scott, It is tight that way but I usually leave that tarp open on the leeward side for access and that gives me some room to work with. How much room you have
                            Message 13 of 27 , Apr 9, 2007
                              Scott,

                              It is tight that way but I usually leave that tarp open on the leeward
                              side for access and that gives me some room to work with. How much
                              room you have and where it is at depends on how everything is hung--
                              the hammock and the tarp, as well as the size of the tarp in relation
                              to the size of the hammock. I can usually set it up where I can get
                              on a diagonal without touching the tarp, but even if I am touching the
                              walls of the tarp I am much better off than not having the tarp to
                              block the wind at all.

                              Using a bigger tarp with more tie-outs alleviates that but there are
                              some things about that that you may not like either. I have used a
                              hammock tarptent before on several winter trips over the years. Setup
                              time and complexity, site selection and weight are the ones that come
                              to mind that you might not like. You might be surprised at the
                              difference weather and conditions make when you setup a more complex
                              structure. Often you have to do a lot of it with no gloves or very
                              light weight gloves and relatively simple task that you can do in
                              minutes in your backyard in nice conditions can become difficult and
                              time consuming tasks in foul weather. I always felt that on
                              backpacking trips the steep slopes on the leeward side in coves was
                              the best hammock sites in cold weather and the hammock tarptent I made
                              was more difficult to setup on steep sloped ground. And the slope
                              negated much of its advantage over the smaller tarp that you saw in
                              the picture. All the gear and equipment we use have trade offs, we
                              just have to decide which ones suit us best for the range of
                              conditions we expect.

                              Dave


                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "farpost" <lsramos13@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Dave,
                              >
                              > The picture of your tarp closed up tight for bad weather looks
                              > effective. But, are you able to sleep on a diagonal in that
                              > configuration? It seems like you would be poking into the tarp sides
                              > enough to create a risk of cold spots.
                              >
                              > Scott
                              >
                              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > It is my opinion that a rectangular shaped tarp provides more
                              > > protection from wind, rain and bad weather than tarps that can be
                              > > visualized as rectangular tarps with portions of the ends cut off, ie
                              > > diamond shaped or hex shaped. These tarps trade off coverage and
                              > > flexibility for lighter weight and a setup that sometimes requires
                              > > less stakes and guylines.
                              > >
                              >
                            • Sandy Kramer
                              Dave, do you have a photo of your tarptent? sandy in miami who hopes that the yahoo grinch will not continue to clone this message for the rest of the day ;(
                              Message 14 of 27 , Apr 10, 2007
                                Dave, do you have a photo of your tarptent?

                                sandy in miami who hopes that the yahoo grinch will not continue to
                                clone this message for the rest of the day ;(




                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > ...I always felt that on backpacking trips the steep slopes on the
                                leeward side in coves was the best hammock sites in cold weather and
                                the hammock tarptent I made was more difficult to setup on steep sloped
                                ground. ...> Dave
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Sandy Kramer
                                search felled seams which is what Ray Jardine recommends
                                Message 15 of 27 , Apr 10, 2007
                                  search "felled seams" which is what Ray Jardine recommends


                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  >in Corvallis Oregon. Google it.
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 4/4/2007 8:04:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
                                  > hacktorious@... writes:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > Anyone know of a good website to learn how to sew the seems
                                  > recommended when sewing the Speer tarp?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • farpost
                                  Dave, I agree with you entirely, esp. wrt to tradeoffs we have to make. Now, in the theme of multiple uses for our gear, have you considered making a weather
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Apr 10, 2007
                                    Dave,

                                    I agree with you entirely, esp. wrt to tradeoffs we have to make. Now,
                                    in the theme of multiple uses for our gear, have you considered making
                                    a weather shield tarp to also serve as a poncho/cape? Or, is that
                                    going too far?

                                    Scott


                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Scott,
                                    >
                                    > It is tight that way but I usually leave that tarp open on the leeward
                                    > side for access and that gives me some room to work with. How much
                                    > room you have and where it is at depends on how everything is hung--
                                    > the hammock and the tarp, as well as the size of the tarp in relation
                                    > to the size of the hammock. I can usually set it up where I can get
                                    > on a diagonal without touching the tarp, but even if I am touching the
                                    > walls of the tarp I am much better off than not having the tarp to
                                    > block the wind at all.
                                    >
                                    > Using a bigger tarp with more tie-outs alleviates that but there are
                                    > some things about that that you may not like either. I have used a
                                    > hammock tarptent before on several winter trips over the years. Setup
                                    > time and complexity, site selection and weight are the ones that come
                                    > to mind that you might not like. You might be surprised at the
                                    > difference weather and conditions make when you setup a more complex
                                    > structure. Often you have to do a lot of it with no gloves or very
                                    > light weight gloves and relatively simple task that you can do in
                                    > minutes in your backyard in nice conditions can become difficult and
                                    > time consuming tasks in foul weather. I always felt that on
                                    > backpacking trips the steep slopes on the leeward side in coves was
                                    > the best hammock sites in cold weather and the hammock tarptent I made
                                    > was more difficult to setup on steep sloped ground. And the slope
                                    > negated much of its advantage over the smaller tarp that you saw in
                                    > the picture. All the gear and equipment we use have trade offs, we
                                    > just have to decide which ones suit us best for the range of
                                    > conditions we expect.
                                    >
                                    > Dave
                                    >
                                  • Dave Womble
                                    http://tinyurl.com/28juru should get you there. Dave
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Apr 10, 2007
                                      http://tinyurl.com/28juru should get you there.

                                      Dave

                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Kramer" <sandykayak@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Dave, do you have a photo of your tarptent?
                                      >
                                      > sandy in miami who hopes that the yahoo grinch will not continue to
                                      > clone this message for the rest of the day ;(
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > ...I always felt that on backpacking trips the steep slopes on the
                                      > leeward side in coves was the best hammock sites in cold weather and
                                      > the hammock tarptent I made was more difficult to setup on steep sloped
                                      > ground. ...> Dave
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Dave Womble
                                      Scott, I m not sure what you mean by a weather shield tarp but whatever that is I haven t thought of making a dual use anything with a poncho. I didn t like a
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Apr 10, 2007
                                        Scott,

                                        I'm not sure what you mean by a weather shield tarp but whatever that
                                        is I haven't thought of making a dual use anything with a poncho. I
                                        didn't like a poncho when I tried using one. I started out with one
                                        on my AT thru hike and switched to a light weight rain suit about a
                                        quarter of the way through my hike. I think I had one that was a
                                        little too long and it would be a problem on steep climbs (I couldn't
                                        always see what I was stepping on unless I grabbed the poncho like you
                                        see women grabbing long skirts going up/down stairs and I would
                                        sometimes step on the poncho itself) in addition to the problems
                                        ponchos have on windy days. I also found it a PIA to get snacks and
                                        such out of my pack and then try to get the poncho back on and stay
                                        dry etc. Some times it rains all day on the trail, you don't get to
                                        call for a 5 minute time out to get your stuff in order. It can all
                                        be worked out though because plenty of people do it with a poncho, it
                                        just didn't work well for me.

                                        I like having separate rain protection for me, my pack and as my
                                        shelter. It can rain for long periods of time and those times can be
                                        discouraging enough without having rain protection when you need it,
                                        you can't count on waiting the rain out to eat or dig a cat hole, etc,
                                        life has to go on. Heck, I even carry a small umbrella to use for
                                        rain protection as well as wind protection or even as a sun shade at
                                        times.

                                        Dave

                                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "farpost" <lsramos13@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Dave,
                                        >
                                        > I agree with you entirely, esp. wrt to tradeoffs we have to make. Now,
                                        > in the theme of multiple uses for our gear, have you considered making
                                        > a weather shield tarp to also serve as a poncho/cape? Or, is that
                                        > going too far?
                                        >
                                        > Scott
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Sandy Kramer
                                        aaaahhhhh..now I remember this pics. i thought it was a hammock as a tent thingee. i ve seen pics on the HH site. has anyone here ever set up there
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Apr 11, 2007
                                          aaaahhhhh..now I remember this pics. i thought it was a "hammock as
                                          a tent" thingee. i've seen pics on the HH site. has anyone here
                                          ever set up there hammock on the ground?

                                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > http://tinyurl.com/28juru should get you there.
                                          >
                                          > Dave
                                          >
                                          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Kramer" <sandykayak@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Dave, do you have a photo of your tarptent?
                                          > >
                                          > > sandy in miami > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                        • Sandy Kramer
                                          i hate it when a typo slips by: their hammock !! http://www.hennessyhammock.com/use-as-a-tent.html I don t know how the bottom entry HH folks get in and out
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Apr 11, 2007
                                            i hate it when a typo slips by: "their hammock" !!

                                            http://www.hennessyhammock.com/use-as-a-tent.html

                                            I don't know how the bottom entry HH folks get in and out with the
                                            hammock lying on the ground!!


                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Kramer"
                                            <sandykayak@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > aaaahhhhh..now I remember this pics. i thought it was a "hammock
                                            as
                                            > a tent" thingee. i've seen pics on the HH site. has anyone here
                                            > ever set up there hammock on the ground?
                                            >
                                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > http://tinyurl.com/28juru should get you there.
                                            > >
                                            > > Dave
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Kramer"
                                            <sandykayak@>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Dave, do you have a photo of your tarptent?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > sandy in miami > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            >
                                          • Thomas Vickers
                                            Yes. One thing I made sure I learned how to do was set up my HH as a tent using my hiking poles and some stakes. Better to learn at home than on the trail in a
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Apr 11, 2007
                                              Yes.
                                              One thing I made sure I learned how to do was set up my HH as a tent
                                              using my hiking poles and some stakes. Better to learn at home than on
                                              the trail in a rainstorm


                                              Not easy, not comfortable, but it works in a pinch.

                                              TV
                                            • Carey Parks
                                              Yep - Not allowed to tie ANYTHING to the trees in Florida state parks. C ... From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Apr 11, 2007
                                                Yep - Not allowed to tie ANYTHING to the trees in Florida state parks.

                                                C




                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                                [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sandy Kramer
                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:00 PM
                                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Hammock tarptent



                                                aaaahhhhh..now I remember this pics. i thought it was a "hammock as
                                                a tent" thingee. i've seen pics on the HH site. has anyone here
                                                ever set up there hammock on the ground?

                                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > http://tinyurl.com/28juru should get you there.
                                                >
                                                > Dave
                                                >
                                                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Kramer" <sandykayak@>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Dave, do you have a photo of your tarptent?
                                                > >
                                                > > sandy in miami > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >






                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • C C Wayah
                                                ... There s one really nice desing of a tent/poncho form Six Moon designs. Looked really nifty at the 2006 gathering. Rogene
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Apr 11, 2007
                                                  > I agree with you entirely, esp. wrt to tradeoffs we have to make. Now,
                                                  > in the theme of multiple uses for our gear, have you considered making
                                                  > a weather shield tarp to also serve as a poncho/cape? Or, is that going
                                                  > too far?


                                                  There's one really nice desing of a tent/poncho form Six Moon designs.
                                                  Looked really nifty at the 2006 gathering.

                                                  Rogene
                                                • Jack Rowe
                                                  In How to make your own lightweight camping and hiking gear, by Vick Hines, there are patterns for a poncho/tent (plus many other goodies)...with a poncho
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Apr 12, 2007
                                                    In 'How to make your own lightweight camping and hiking gear, by Vick Hines, there are patterns for a poncho/tent (plus many other goodies)...with a poncho used as tarp even for ground camping, you want them longer than for ideal use as a poncho, on the one I made I left the extra material in back (useful for covering pack in rain) and use vertical pull cords along bottom 30" to bring the back up to a workable height when just walking...also have waist cords to form more of a 'jacket' when it's windy/rainy, also velcro at neck for wearing poncho as a cape (left folded in half) when wind/rain are right (at back/sides and not too blustery)... ventilation when used as cape is MUCH better than with either a full poncho or rain suit, one of the reasons I like the poncho instead of a suit -- almost always wear it as a cape, if it gets too rainy I usually stop and set up camp anyway.

                                                    Using poncho as tarp necessitates the umbrella or other supplemental light rain protection, as Ed says there's only so long you can sit quietly under a tarp in the rain, nature calls notwithstanding. At 102" length the poncho has to sit diagonally and very close to the hammock in windy rain, though my hammock is only slightly over 8 feet long to tie-outs (at 5'10" a little close but light). To be honest if I'm expecting hard rain I usually set up on the ground, more loafing space when stuck under cover for many hours.

                                                    There's nothing so nice as an extra tarp for living space, and a place to lean back, when you're stuck in the rain. A hammock can be hung w/ one end vertical-ish to use as a sling chair for reading, but this is of little use in the rain since hard to cover effectively.

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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