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RE: [Hammock Camping] Re: Studies

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  • Carey Parks
    Here in Florida and I believe at least one other state prohibits tying or nailing anything to their trees. The US Forrest Service has no problem with it in
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 3, 2007
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      Here in Florida and I believe at least one other state prohibits tying or
      nailing anything to their trees. The US Forrest Service has no problem with
      it in Florida. I feel that the ban on tying anything to trees came from the
      use of thin line for clothes lines and tarp hanging. A tarp in the wind
      makes a good motor for a line saw. Florida State Parks get a lot of use.
      This ban on tying anything to the trees is the ONLY rule pointed out to me
      out of about ten when we registered for campsite. They are serious about it.

      I have heard that rangers are impressed when you take the time to show them
      how the wide webbing spreads the load and minimizes impact to the tree. But
      rules are rules and you still have to pitch that hammock like a tarp tent.

      By the way, a palm is a grass and not a tree. Maybe that's related.

      Also, when the test site is a park site, you are sleeping on sand anyway, so
      nothing is harmed beyond the original development. The trees on the other
      hand are needed to shade that sand.

      In a back country situation the hammock might win the impact contest, but
      that's if you don't spread a ground cloth under it, and live on that like it
      were a tent.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of hacktorious
      Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 2:03 PM
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Studies


      I am not aware of an studies for hammocks, but I brought this topic up
      during a hike leadership training course I attended last year. The
      only thing the instructor could say was that in his opinion it was far
      less damaging than using a tent. However, some parks do not allow
      hammocks.

      Extensive studies have gone into tents and trails. I forgot the exact
      details, but a typical tent spot, which is used many times in one
      season can take 10-15 years to recover to it's original state.

      In my personal opinion, I agree with the instructor.

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, amendment2@... wrote:
      >
      > Does anyone know of any studies done on tree damage from hammock
      camping?
      > Short or long term?
      > Thanks
      >
      >
      >
      > ************************************** See what's free at
      http://www.aol.com
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • amendment2@aol.com
      Yes, I agree. Generally we hammock owners feel our way is less damaging than overused tentsites. I am trying to determine whether there is any basis in the
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 3, 2007
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        Yes, I agree. Generally we hammock owners feel our way is less damaging than
        overused tentsites. I am trying to determine whether there is any basis in
        the idea though. I wonder how to even set up an experiment like that..



        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dick Matthews
        Style determines impact. Wearing trail runners rather than boots reduces impact. When I have dinner next to a stream then hike an hour to camp I only have to
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 3, 2007
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          Style determines impact. Wearing trail runners rather than boots
          reduces impact. When I have dinner next to a stream then hike an hour
          to camp I only have to hang the hammock and bear bag. I typically leave
          camp the next morning and hike to warm up before breakfast. My style
          has close to ZERO impact.

          I have camped with boy scouts that can trash a pristine area in a single
          night.

          The shelter part of camping is low impact whether tent or hammock.

          Dick Matthews








          mendment2@... wrote:

          > Yes, I agree. Generally we hammock owners feel our way is less
          > damaging than
          > overused tentsites. I am trying to determine whether there is any
          > basis in
          > the idea though. I wonder how to even set up an experiment like that..
          >
          > ************************************** See what's free at
          > http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com>
          >
          > [
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mrbyer
          If the law states you cannot tie to a tree and the Palm is a grass not a tree does that mean you can tie to a palm? ;) ... tying or ... problem with ... from
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 3, 2007
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            If the law states you cannot tie to a tree and the Palm is a grass not
            a tree does that mean you can tie to a palm? ;)


            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Carey Parks" <cjp129@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here in Florida and I believe at least one other state prohibits
            tying or
            > nailing anything to their trees. The US Forrest Service has no
            problem with
            > it in Florida. I feel that the ban on tying anything to trees came
            from the
            > use of thin line for clothes lines and tarp hanging. A tarp in the wind
            > makes a good motor for a line saw. Florida State Parks get a lot of use.
            > This ban on tying anything to the trees is the ONLY rule pointed out
            to me
            > out of about ten when we registered for campsite. They are serious
            about it.
            >
            > I have heard that rangers are impressed when you take the time to
            show them
            > how the wide webbing spreads the load and minimizes impact to the
            tree. But
            > rules are rules and you still have to pitch that hammock like a tarp
            tent.
            >
            > By the way, a palm is a grass and not a tree. Maybe that's related.
            >
            > Also, when the test site is a park site, you are sleeping on sand
            anyway, so
            > nothing is harmed beyond the original development. The trees on the
            other
            > hand are needed to shade that sand.
            >
            > In a back country situation the hammock might win the impact
            contest, but
            > that's if you don't spread a ground cloth under it, and live on that
            like it
            > were a tent.
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of hacktorious
            > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 2:03 PM
            > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Studies
            >
            >
            > I am not aware of an studies for hammocks, but I brought this topic up
            > during a hike leadership training course I attended last year. The
            > only thing the instructor could say was that in his opinion it was far
            > less damaging than using a tent. However, some parks do not allow
            > hammocks.
            >
            > Extensive studies have gone into tents and trails. I forgot the exact
            > details, but a typical tent spot, which is used many times in one
            > season can take 10-15 years to recover to it's original state.
            >
            > In my personal opinion, I agree with the instructor.
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, amendment2@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Does anyone know of any studies done on tree damage from hammock
            > camping?
            > > Short or long term?
            > > Thanks
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ************************************** See what's free at
            > http://www.aol.com
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Carey Parks
            Very good question! ... From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mrbyer Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:47 PM
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 3, 2007
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              Very good question!

              ----Original Message-----
              From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mrbyer
              Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:47 PM
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Studies


              If the law states you cannot tie to a tree and the Palm is a grass not
              a tree does that mean you can tie to a palm? ;)

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Carey Parks" <cjp129@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here in Florida and I believe at least one other state prohibits
              tying or
              > nailing anything to their trees. The US Forrest Service has no
              problem with
              > it in Florida. I feel that the ban on tying anything to trees came
              from the
              > use of thin line for clothes lines and tarp hanging. A tarp in the wind
              > makes a good motor for a line saw. Florida State Parks get a lot of use.
              > This ban on tying anything to the trees is the ONLY rule pointed out
              to me
              > out of about ten when we registered for campsite. They are serious
              about it.
              >
              > I have heard that rangers are impressed when you take the time to
              show them
              > how the wide webbing spreads the load and minimizes impact to the
              tree. But
              > rules are rules and you still have to pitch that hammock like a tarp
              tent.
              >
              > By the way, a palm is a grass and not a tree. Maybe that's related.
              >
              > Also, when the test site is a park site, you are sleeping on sand
              anyway, so
              > nothing is harmed beyond the original development. The trees on the
              other
              > hand are needed to shade that sand.
              >
              > In a back country situation the hammock might win the impact
              contest, but
              > that's if you don't spread a ground cloth under it, and live on that
              like it
              > were a tent.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of hacktorious
              > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 2:03 PM
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Studies
              >
              >
              > I am not aware of an studies for hammocks, but I brought this topic up
              > during a hike leadership training course I attended last year. The
              > only thing the instructor could say was that in his opinion it was far
              > less damaging than using a tent. However, some parks do not allow
              > hammocks.
              >
              > Extensive studies have gone into tents and trails. I forgot the exact
              > details, but a typical tent spot, which is used many times in one
              > season can take 10-15 years to recover to it's original state.
              >
              > In my personal opinion, I agree with the instructor.
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, amendment2@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Does anyone know of any studies done on tree damage from hammock
              > camping?
              > > Short or long term?
              > > Thanks
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ************************************** See what's free at
              > http://www.aol.com
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Scott
              Bring the botany book to court with you..........lol ... -- Scott www.AntiFuel.com Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open. [Non-text
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 3, 2007
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                Bring the botany book to court with you..........lol

                On 4/3/07, Carey Parks <cjp129@...> wrote:
                >
                > Very good question!
                >


                --
                Scott
                www.AntiFuel.com

                Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cara Lin Bridgman
                ... camping? ... Nope, I m monitoring the effects of one night s camping on Cryptomeria sp. The tree-huggers compacted the bark, which tends to be spongy,
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 4, 2007
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                  amendment2@... wrote:
                  > Does anyone know of any studies done on tree damage from hammock
                  camping?
                  > Short or long term?


                  Nope, I'm monitoring the effects of one night's camping on Cryptomeria
                  sp. The tree-huggers compacted the bark, which tends to be spongy,
                  especially in the rain which was when I camped there. Half a year
                  later, it is still easy to see where the tree-huggers had gripped the
                  tree. Whether this damaged the tree, I don't know. I doubt most people
                  would notice the effect. Probably the biggest effect was scraping moss
                  off the tree, leaving a lighter-colored ring.

                  Every time I return to the site, I snap a fresh set of pictures.

                  So, the type of tree probably does matter. I doubt shag-bark hickories
                  are good hammock trees...

                  CL
                • John and Jessica
                  I ll poke through some of my stuff back at the office. We re (ladyfriend and I) are working on PhD s in Parks and Rec. She deal more with recreation ecology
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 4, 2007
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                    I'll poke through some of my stuff back at the office. We're (ladyfriend and
                    I) are working on PhD's in Parks and Rec. She deal more with recreation
                    ecology than I do though. I deal more with trail systems, greenways, and
                    that sort of stuff.

                    There is scads of info about tent and campsite impacts, but I don't remember
                    anything specifically about hammocks.

                    -John
                    www.SourcetoSea.net

                    --
                    Visit www.SourcetoSea.net for more information about our 2,150 mile
                    expedition down the Mississippi River to benefit the Audubon Society.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • amendment2@aol.com
                    Can you tell me the recovery time from frequently used tent campsites? Please cite studies, not anecdotal evidence. Thanks, Dave Fox In a message dated
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 4, 2007
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                      Can you tell me the recovery time from frequently used tent campsites?
                      Please cite studies, not anecdotal evidence.
                      Thanks,
                      Dave Fox


                      In a message dated 4/4/2007 2:38:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
                      source2sea@... writes:

                      I'll poke through some of my stuff back at the office. We're (ladyfriend and
                      I) are working on PhD's in Parks and Rec. She deal more with recreation
                      ecology than I do though. I deal more with trail systems, greenways, and
                      that sort of stuff.

                      There is scads of info about tent and campsite impacts, but I don't remember
                      anything specifically about hammocks.

                      -John
                      www.SourcetoSea.www






                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Cara Lin Bridgman
                      ... Won t recovery time depend on use (amount and type), habitat, substrate, and climate? I d expect recover times in the GSMNP to be different from those in
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 4, 2007
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                        amendment2@... wrote:
                        > Can you tell me the recovery time from frequently used tent campsites?
                        > Please cite studies, not anecdotal evidence.


                        Won't recovery time depend on use (amount and type), habitat, substrate,
                        and climate?

                        I'd expect recover times in the GSMNP to be different from those in
                        Grand Canyon NP.
                      • Scott
                        The leadership course I took, which I previously mentioned, was taught by Leave No Trace . Here are some articles I dug up from
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 4, 2007
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                          The leadership course I took, which I previously mentioned, was taught by Leave
                          No Trace <http://www.lnt.org/main.html>.

                          Here are some articles I dug up from their website, which may contain the
                          info your looking for.

                          Recreation Impacts and Management in Wilderness: A State-of-Knowledge
                          Review<http://www.lnt.org/training/resources/documents/SOKWildernesspap.pdf>
                          Recreation Ecology Research Findings - Implications for Wilderness and Park
                          Managers<http://www.lnt.org/training/resources/documents/RecEcolResFindings.pdf>

                          The link to more of their resources is:
                          http://www.lnt.org/training/resources/index.html

                          If you cannot what your looking for you can browse their main website by
                          visiting: http://www.lnt.org

                          I am sure you can find something there. You can also email them and ask any
                          further questions you might have. They are more then willing to help.
                          Good Luck!

                          PS:
                          I am digging through my paperwork from the course in hopes I might find
                          something for you.

                          --
                          Scott
                          www.AntiFuel.com

                          Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open.

                          On 4/4/07, amendment2@... <amendment2@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Can you tell me the recovery time from frequently used tent campsites?
                          > Please cite studies, not anecdotal evidence.
                          > Thanks,
                          > Dave Fox
                          >
                          > In a message dated 4/4/2007 2:38:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
                          > source2sea@... <source2sea%40gmail.com> writes:
                          >
                          > I'll poke through some of my stuff back at the office. We're (ladyfriend
                          > and
                          > I) are working on PhD's in Parks and Rec. She deal more with recreation
                          > ecology than I do though. I deal more with trail systems, greenways, and
                          > that sort of stuff.
                          >
                          > There is scads of info about tent and campsite impacts, but I don't
                          > remember
                          > anything specifically about hammocks.
                          >
                          > -John
                          > www.SourcetoSea.www
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • amendment2@aol.com
                          Thanks, I already have found in the studies you cited, that tent camping recovery depending on the resiliancy of the site can take from 3 to 30 years. More
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 5, 2007
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                            Thanks, I already have found in the studies you cited, that tent camping
                            recovery depending on the resiliancy of the site can take from 3 to 30 years.
                            More importantly, in the report bibliographies, I have more names of people to
                            contact for current information.



                            ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


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