Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Beeswax

Expand Messages
  • ian toal
    I m working on making as eco-friendly camping supplies as possible and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make a fire starter/heat
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 27, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm working on making as eco-friendly camping supplies as possible and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I'm trying to get something that will boil tea while I'm using my other stove to cook dinner. Of course once I opened up the package of beeswax it smelt like honey and started me wondering... Would burning beeswax or beeswax candle attract bears?? Does anyone have any insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it before the spring...

      Enjoy,

      Ian


      ---------------------------------
      No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
      with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tim garner
      i m no expert, but it seems to me that it might attract more critters than just bears...mice insects, etc. but if you experiment w/ it, let us know. ...tim
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 27, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        i'm no expert, but it seems to me that it might attract more critters than just bears...mice insects, etc.
        but if you experiment w/ it, let us know. ...tim

        ian toal <powersurj2002@...> wrote:
        I'm working on making as eco-friendly camping supplies as possible and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I'm trying to get something that will boil tea while I'm using my other stove to cook dinner. Of course once I opened up the package of beeswax it smelt like honey and started me wondering... Would burning beeswax or beeswax candle attract bears?? Does anyone have any insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it before the spring...

        Enjoy,

        Ian


        ---------------------------------
        No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
        with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        Yahoo! Groups Links






        don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


        ---------------------------------
        Never miss an email again!
        Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ralph Oborn
        Of course once I opened up the package of beeswax it smelt like honey and started me wondering... Would burning beeswax or beeswax candle attract bears??
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 27, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Of course once I opened up the package of beeswax it smelt like honey and
          started me wondering... Would burning beeswax or beeswax candle attract
          bears?? Does anyone have any insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it
          before the spring...

          Enjoy,

          Ian

          YES !

          If you can smell it, so can a bear, and from a lot further away. :]

          Ralph Oborn


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ejakes123
          ... and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I m trying to get
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 28, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ian toal <powersurj2002@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm working on making as eco-friendly camping supplies as possible
            and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make
            a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I'm
            trying to get something that will boil tea while I'm using my other
            stove to cook dinner. Of course once I opened up the package of
            beeswax it smelt like honey and started me wondering... Would burning
            beeswax or beeswax candle attract bears?? Does anyone have any
            insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it before the spring...
            >
            > Enjoy,
            >
            > Ian
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
            > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

            It's my understanding that beeswax candles do attrack bears. I've
            heard of hunters using them as a lure. Seems kinda risky to me. By
            the way,why coffee grounds?

            Best,
            Eric
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Jack Rowe
            Perhaps only marginally related, waterproof/breathable garments used to be made by soaking cotton material in beeswax, then boiling in water for a while to
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 28, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Perhaps only marginally related, waterproof/breathable garments used to be made by soaking cotton material in beeswax, then boiling in water for a while to remove enough of the wax to make the fabric breathe some...

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mike
              Do any bears besides Winnie eat honey? I watch hunting on TV a lot and bears are usually baited with beaver or other carcasses in some state of putrefaction.
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 28, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Do any bears besides Winnie eat honey? I watch hunting on TV a lot and bears
                are usually baited with beaver or other carcasses in some state of
                putrefaction. They are opportunists to the max, and eat whatever is EASILY
                available. I don't think honey is the easiest thing to get in the mind of a
                bear. What's more, the mixture could be stored hanging away from the
                campsite. Bears aren't going to be attracted to it while it's burning.

                On 2/28/07, Jack Rowe <jackrowe@...> wrote:
                >
                > Perhaps only marginally related, waterproof/breathable garments used to
                > be made by soaking cotton material in beeswax, then boiling in water for a
                > while to remove enough of the wax to make the fabric breathe some...
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ian toal
                Eric, I ve done some research on alternatives to wood chips and found that coffee grounds actually burn hotter than wood. Beeswax burns longer than paraffin
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 1, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Eric,

                  I've done some research on alternatives to wood chips and found that coffee grounds actually burn hotter than wood. Beeswax burns longer than paraffin wax does so between the two I figured I had a good combination.

                  I went on a 15 mile back country ski yesterday afternoon and stopped after 7 miles for some food and tea. I brought .6 OZ of my latest batch with me and it boiled 3/4 of a liter of water in 5 minutes. It definitely works well, with minimal soot, using a small surplus army camp stove. The flame lasted another minute or two after the teas was ready, so it was nice to warm my hands a bit. It was above freezing so I was looking over my shoulder a few times hoping not to see anything big and black ambling down the trail.

                  I read the other entry about soaking cotton in beeswax for waterproofing. Maybe it's safe to use if that is the case. With what I cook while camping I'm likely to attract bears with that anyway. But if any one else has some input please let me know.

                  Enjoy,

                  Ian

                  ejakes123 <ejakes@...> wrote:
                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ian toal <powersurj2002@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm working on making as eco-friendly camping supplies as possible
                  and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make
                  a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I'm
                  trying to get something that will boil tea while I'm using my other
                  stove to cook dinner. Of course once I opened up the package of
                  beeswax it smelt like honey and started me wondering... Would burning
                  beeswax or beeswax candle attract bears?? Does anyone have any
                  insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it before the spring...
                  >
                  > Enjoy,
                  >
                  > Ian
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                  > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

                  It's my understanding that beeswax candles do attrack bears. I've
                  heard of hunters using them as a lure. Seems kinda risky to me. By
                  the way,why coffee grounds?

                  Best,
                  Eric
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >






                  ---------------------------------
                  Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ian toal
                  Ralph, Yeah that is a regretfully good point... I m just not sure if they ld come for the wax, either way I ll switch to something else before spring if I
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 1, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ralph,

                    Yeah that is a regretfully good point...

                    I'm just not sure if they'ld come for the wax, either way I'll switch to something else before spring if I can't find out for sure.

                    Enjoy,

                    Ian

                    Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@...> wrote:
                    Of course once I opened up the package of beeswax it smelt like honey and
                    started me wondering... Would burning beeswax or beeswax candle attract
                    bears?? Does anyone have any insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it
                    before the spring...

                    Enjoy,

                    Ian

                    YES !

                    If you can smell it, so can a bear, and from a lot further away. :]

                    Ralph Oborn

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    ---------------------------------
                    Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
                    in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jack Rowe
                    Well the beeswax clothing is at least of historical interest, if in bear country (which I am) and trying this one I d accept the guilt and use paraffin.
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well the beeswax clothing is at least of historical interest, if in bear country (which I am) and trying this one I'd accept the guilt and use paraffin. Old-timers might have considered themselves lucky, shot the bear, dried it and ate it.

                      My current thought on this one is trying a similar thing with silicone diluted w/ mineral spirits...put on enough (spray?) to make the fabric very uninterested in water, but not enough to fill pores. I'll report if/when I actually get around to trying it.

                      I don't think The Bad Place (W-M, of course) sells much ripstop as I just got 16 yds from their $1/yd table.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Randy
                      ... and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I m trying to get
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 23, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ian toal <powersurj2002@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm working on making as eco-friendly camping supplies as possible
                        and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make
                        a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I'm
                        trying to get something that will boil tea while I'm using my other
                        stove to cook dinner. Of course once I opened up the package of
                        beeswax it smelt like honey and started me wondering... Would burning
                        beeswax or beeswax candle attract bears?? Does anyone have any
                        insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it before the spring...
                        >
                        > Enjoy,
                        >
                        > Ian
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                        > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        What are you currently using as a fire starter now and how are coffee
                        grounds and beeswax anymore eco-friendly?

                        I think that wood is the most eco-friendly thing you can burn on the
                        trail and it's readily available. Burning wood has a net neutral
                        effect on C02, it helps clean up the forest floor and helps eliminate
                        fire hazards. Why not use it.
                        >
                      • ian toal
                        Hey Randy, I started the post in the winter when it was a little tough to get any wood. I didn t want to use any petroleum based fire starters for a number of
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 26, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hey Randy,

                          I started the post in the winter when it was a little tough to get any wood. I didn't want to use any petroleum based fire starters for a number of reasons, and up till now had been using a camping stove. I was looking for something else. I went with coffee grounds and beeswax because they were a chemical free alternative for the winter. They burn very clean too with hardly any residue and the smoke didn't bother my eyes.

                          Now that spring is here, I was just, and I mean 15 minutes ago, trying out a wood burning stove I made using two tin cans. It needs some modifications but if I can get it to boil water then I'll be using it this Spring through Fall. I agree with using downed branches and twigs and certainly love the smell of a nice fire. It's a little tough in the rain though to get them going, I tried once on a morning hike to cook breakfast when it had rained the night before. After two hours I was cold, smoked out and didn't keep down what I had heated up to luke warm and forced myself to eat. It wasn't one of my better trips.

                          Thanks for the input and Enjoy,

                          Ian

                          Randy <randyacton@...> wrote: --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ian toal <powersurj2002@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm working on making as eco-friendly camping supplies as possible
                          and am currently working with used coffee grounds and beeswax to make
                          a fire starter/heat source for a small army surplus metal stove. I'm
                          trying to get something that will boil tea while I'm using my other
                          stove to cook dinner. Of course once I opened up the package of
                          beeswax it smelt like honey and started me wondering... Would burning
                          beeswax or beeswax candle attract bears?? Does anyone have any
                          insight into this one? I'ld like to hear it before the spring...
                          >
                          > Enjoy,
                          >
                          > Ian
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
                          > with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          What are you currently using as a fire starter now and how are coffee
                          grounds and beeswax anymore eco-friendly?

                          I think that wood is the most eco-friendly thing you can burn on the
                          trail and it's readily available. Burning wood has a net neutral
                          effect on C02, it helps clean up the forest floor and helps eliminate
                          fire hazards. Why not use it.
                          >






                          ---------------------------------
                          Be a PS3 game guru.
                          Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Eric Sandberg
                          I m curious. How did you make the beeswax/coffee grounds fire starter. Burning for 5 min on .6 oz sounds pretty good to me. Can you give us a recipie?
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 5, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I'm curious. How did you make the beeswax/coffee grounds fire
                            starter. Burning for 5 min on .6 oz sounds pretty good to me. Can you
                            give us a recipie?
                          • hacktorious
                            Burning wood has a net neutral effect on C02 NET NEUTRAL, that is news to me. Anything I ever read stated burning wood creates Co2 and is bad for the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 6, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "Burning wood has a net neutral effect on C02"

                              NET NEUTRAL, that is news to me. Anything I ever read stated burning
                              wood creates Co2 and is bad for the environment. Do you have a
                              reference for this information? Thanks.
                            • Ralph Oborn
                              ... The idea is that wood in the forest (especially dead downed forest litter) will decompose soon anyway and release most of it s carbon as CO2 into the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 6, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On 4/6/07, hacktorious <hacktorious@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > "Burning wood has a net neutral effect on C02"
                                >
                                > NET NEUTRAL, that is news to me. Anything I ever read stated burning
                                > wood creates Co2 and is bad for the environment. Do you have a
                                > reference for this information? Thanks.


                                The idea is that wood in the forest (especially dead downed forest litter)
                                will decompose soon anyway and release most of it's carbon as CO2 into the
                                environment. Unlike fossil fuels that would have stayed intact in the ground
                                from geological times (Hence: fossil fuels).

                                Which is why I am skeptical about the benefit of planting trees to tie up
                                carbon, within a few decades any carbon pulled from the atmosphere will be
                                returned anyway.

                                Ralph Oborn


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Rick
                                Getting off topic, but I learned about the long-term carbon cycle (calcium carbonate or limestone) from Bill Bryson s A History of Nearly Everything . As you
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 6, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Getting off topic, but I learned about the long-term carbon cycle
                                  (calcium carbonate or limestone) from Bill Bryson's "A History of Nearly
                                  Everything". As you know Bryson also wrote Walk in the Woods, in which
                                  he suffered because he had not discovered lightweight hiking, of which
                                  Hammock Camping is a descendant.

                                  Limestone eventually gets subducted into the Earth's magma, and the
                                  carbon is released as CO2, but it stays in a tied up form for a LONG
                                  time, unlike the carbon in vegetation.

                                  Rick

                                  Ralph Oborn wrote:
                                  > On 4/6/07, hacktorious <hacktorious@...> wrote:
                                  >> "Burning wood has a net neutral effect on C02"
                                  >>
                                  >> NET NEUTRAL, that is news to me. Anything I ever read stated burning
                                  >> wood creates Co2 and is bad for the environment. Do you have a
                                  >> reference for this information? Thanks.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The idea is that wood in the forest (especially dead downed forest litter)
                                  > will decompose soon anyway and release most of it's carbon as CO2 into the
                                  > environment. Unlike fossil fuels that would have stayed intact in the ground
                                  > from geological times (Hence: fossil fuels).
                                  >
                                  > Which is why I am skeptical about the benefit of planting trees to tie up
                                  > carbon, within a few decades any carbon pulled from the atmosphere will be
                                  > returned anyway.
                                  >
                                  > Ralph Oborn
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  Walk Well!

                                  Rick (Risk)

                                  *********************************
                                  http://www.imrisk.com
                                  author of
                                  A Wildly Successful 200 Mile Hike
                                  www.wayahpress.com
                                  *********************************
                                • Scott
                                  That is an interesting concept, I have never thought of it that way. As far as planting trees, I think it is a good idea because it will help make up for all
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 6, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    That is an interesting concept, I have never thought of it that way.

                                    As far as planting trees, I think it is a good idea because it will help
                                    make up for all the loss due to deforestation. This is a tremendous amount
                                    of trees. Of course the combination of more trees with the number of
                                    existing automobiles could potentially make things worse.

                                    --
                                    Scott
                                    www.AntiFuel.com
                                    www.groups.yahoo.com/group/PATC

                                    Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open.

                                    On 4/6/07, Rick <ra1@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Getting off topic, but I learned about the long-term carbon cycle
                                    > (calcium carbonate or limestone) from Bill Bryson's "A History of Nearly
                                    > Everything". As you know Bryson also wrote Walk in the Woods, in which
                                    > he suffered because he had not discovered lightweight hiking, of which
                                    > Hammock Camping is a descendant.
                                    >
                                    > Limestone eventually gets subducted into the Earth's magma, and the
                                    > carbon is released as CO2, but it stays in a tied up form for a LONG
                                    > time, unlike the carbon in vegetation.
                                    >
                                    > Rick
                                    >
                                    > Ralph Oborn wrote:
                                    > > On 4/6/07, hacktorious <hacktorious@... <hacktorious%40gmail.com>>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >> "Burning wood has a net neutral effect on C02"
                                    > >>
                                    > >> NET NEUTRAL, that is news to me. Anything I ever read stated burning
                                    > >> wood creates Co2 and is bad for the environment. Do you have a
                                    > >> reference for this information? Thanks.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > The idea is that wood in the forest (especially dead downed forest
                                    > litter)
                                    > > will decompose soon anyway and release most of it's carbon as CO2 into
                                    > the
                                    > > environment. Unlike fossil fuels that would have stayed intact in the
                                    > ground
                                    > > from geological times (Hence: fossil fuels).
                                    > >
                                    > > Which is why I am skeptical about the benefit of planting trees to tie
                                    > up
                                    > > carbon, within a few decades any carbon pulled from the atmosphere will
                                    > be
                                    > > returned anyway.
                                    > >
                                    > > Ralph Oborn
                                    > >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Ralph Oborn
                                    ... Nice tie in Rick (With a hangers knot I suppose) Ralph [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 6, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      On 4/6/07, Rick <ra1@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Getting off topic, but I learned about the long-term carbon cycle
                                      > (calcium carbonate or limestone) from Bill Bryson's "A History of Nearly
                                      > Everything". As you know Bryson also wrote Walk in the Woods, in which
                                      > he suffered because he had not discovered lightweight hiking, of which
                                      > Hammock Camping is a descendant.
                                      >
                                      > Limestone eventually gets subducted into the Earth's magma, and the
                                      > carbon is released as CO2, but it stays in a tied up form for a LONG
                                      > time, unlike the carbon in vegetation.
                                      >
                                      > Rick


                                      Nice tie in Rick (With a hangers knot I suppose)

                                      Ralph


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • C C Wayah
                                      But trees do convert C02 to carbom and relese 02 in photosynthesis while liveing. So they have a natural conversion process that industry does not. I;ve read
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 6, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        But trees do convert C02 to carbom and relese 02
                                        in photosynthesis while liveing. So they have a natural
                                        conversion process that industry does not.

                                        I;ve read large cities would quickly litterialy suffocate if it weren';t for
                                        the tress with the winds blowing near them from the forested areass around
                                        them I'm guessing that the life spoan of a tree out converts the C02 it
                                        does releae when it dies.

                                        Rogene


                                        Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Beeswax


                                        > That is an interesting concept, I have never thought of it that way.
                                        >
                                        > As far as planting trees, I think it is a good idea because it will help
                                        > make up for all the loss due to deforestation. This is a tremendous
                                        > amount
                                        > of trees. Of course the combination of more trees with the number of
                                        > existing automobiles could potentially make things worse.
                                      • Ralph Oborn
                                        I;ve read large cities would quickly litterialy suffocate if it weren ;t for the tress with the winds blowing near them from the forested areass around them
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Apr 6, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I;ve read large cities would quickly litterialy suffocate if it weren';t for
                                          the tress with the winds blowing near them from the forested areass around
                                          them I'm guessing that the life spoan of a tree out converts the C02 it
                                          does releae when it dies.

                                          Rogene


                                          Sorry, every bit of CO2 a tree stores as carbohydrates comes out again as it
                                          decomposes to CO2, UNLESS it gets buried in a swamp and converted to coal
                                          etc.

                                          I'm not saying that trees are bad, I'm just saying that they are only a
                                          temporary carbon storage device (for a few decades).


                                          Ralph

                                          Besides we need them to hang hammocks.


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Jack Rowe
                                          Much of the carbon tied up in trees goes into the soil s organic matter upon tree s death...soil is now considered to hold more carbon (humus and live biomass)
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Apr 7, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Much of the carbon tied up in trees goes into the soil's organic matter upon tree's death...soil is now considered to hold more carbon (humus and live biomass) than above-ground sources.

                                            re: hammock tree damage, if the same tree were used over and over like a campsite, I think it would suffer greatly. Viva stealth camping!

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Cara Lin Bridgman
                                            ... Burning anything produces CO2, but pound for pound, I assume wood produces less CO2 than fossil fuels. Of the fossil fuels (data from Wright & Nebel 2002.
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Apr 8, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              hacktorious wrote:
                                              > "Burning wood has a net neutral effect on C02"
                                              >
                                              > NET NEUTRAL, that is news to me. Anything I ever read stated burning
                                              > wood creates Co2 and is bad for the environment. Do you have a
                                              > reference for this information? Thanks.


                                              Burning anything produces CO2, but pound for pound, I assume wood
                                              produces less CO2 than fossil fuels. Of the fossil fuels (data from
                                              Wright & Nebel 2002. Environmental Science: Towards a Sustainable
                                              Future), coal is the big baddie. It produces almost twice as much CO2
                                              as natural gas. Gasoline produces about 1.3 times as much as natural gas.

                                              The nice thing about burning wood is that it can be much more efficient
                                              than burning fossil fuels, especially if you're using an efficient wood
                                              burning stove. The problem with all the other sources (alcohol,
                                              canisters, esbit, white gas) is that it takes energy (often
                                              petrochemical) and water to harvest it and to make it. When you're
                                              burning alcohol, there's a net energy loss: harvest, fermentation,
                                              distillation, burning. The distilling, especially, requires lots of
                                              energy. Just think how the revenue officers tracked down stills during
                                              prohibition. For processing esbit and natural gas and white gas, you
                                              have the same problem. We're not burning the stuff exactly as it comes
                                              out of the ground, we have to use energy (usually by burning oil) to
                                              turn it into a usable form. And then there's the packaging and the
                                              energy required to make and recycle it.

                                              Now, the real problem with burning wood is: where did the wood come
                                              from? Folks in Europe recently discovered this problem with their
                                              palm-oil ethanol. Burning ethanol made from palm oil was great for
                                              lowering EU's CO2. The problem was, it was increasing the planet's
                                              atmospheric CO2. This was because Indonesia was (and is) cutting down
                                              (and burning) tropical forest to plant palm trees for palm oil.

                                              So, the point really isn't to plant trees, but to stop deforestation.
                                              There is no way that new plantations of baby trees (or even 40-year-old
                                              plantations of young trees) can capture and hold more CO2 than old
                                              forests. It's not just the CO2 in the trees, it's the CO2 that's been
                                              pumped into the ground as organic matter.

                                              And let's face it, a plantation full of baby trees is no place to hang a
                                              hammock. Baby trees are too bushy and too small. You'll end up
                                              sleeping on the ground. And the ground won't be any good for sleeping
                                              because it won't have that cushiony organic layer.

                                              CL
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.