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"Wet ropes can make excellent conductors."

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  • Sandy Kramer
    Not many good options. http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 23, 2007
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    • gerzson
      I think that if you hang high enough (1m) the lightning may prefer to go through the wet bark (much larger than the rope) instead of going through the rope
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 23, 2007
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        I think that if you hang high enough (1m) the lightning may prefer to
        go through the wet bark (much larger than the rope) instead of going
        through the rope then leaping through the air to the ground.
        I have never heard of anybody struck by lightning in a hammock.
        Is there at least a known case?

        gerzson

        On 1/24/07, Sandy Kramer <sandykayak@...> wrote:
        >
        > Not many good options.
        >
        >
        > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • CC Wayah
        Looks like trail shelters are not safe either! So should all shelter be built with lightening rods? How could you rig up a tent or Hammock with a lightening
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 24, 2007
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          Looks like trail shelters are not safe either!
          So should all shelter be built with lightening rods?
          How could you rig up a tent or Hammock with a lightening rod?
          I relay don't think this could be done!


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "gerzson" <gerzson@...>
          To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:34 AM
          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] "Wet ropes can make excellent conductors."


          > I think that if you hang high enough (1m) the lightning may prefer to
          > go through the wet bark (much larger than the rope) instead of going
          > through the rope then leaping through the air to the ground.
          > I have never heard of anybody struck by lightning in a hammock.
          > Is there at least a known case?
          >
          > gerzson
          >
          > On 1/24/07, Sandy Kramer <sandykayak@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Not many good options.
          > >
          > >
          > > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Bill III
          Thanks for the info about lightining. I feel one should do what they can to lessen the effects of a lightining strike. But it s been my experiance that it s
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 24, 2007
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            Thanks for the info about lightining. I feel one should do what they can to lessen the effects of a lightining strike. But it's been my experiance that it's going to do pretty much what it wants to. There is really no way to exactly predict the path it's going to take.
            I have had lightining strike close to me in that my hair stood up and have had a couple of friends hit by some weak feeders and lived to talk about it.
            When I hike or camp I use basic common sense. I have never been scared of lightining or storms. It's all part of nature. The best thing is to not be scared but to respect what nature can do and live with it.
            Oh I am a Radio Amateur Operator, Extra Calss. Have yet to be hit . And I use a minor amount of grounding around the shack. And often run antenna wires from trees when I camp at the lake or in the mountains. I've been in storms, snow as well and a couple of microbursts. I love nature when she cuts loose.

            Thanks for reading this Bill


            ---------------------------------
            Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • D. Emer
            Lightning likes trees, they re high and conductive and present a great ground with the root system. If you or your hammock is attached to that tree (or in
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 24, 2007
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              Lightning likes trees, they're high and conductive and present a great
              ground with the root system. If you or your hammock is attached to that
              tree (or in close proximity to it) it's part of the circuit with a path more
              conductive than air. The strike will flow along the tree and out along
              anything connected to it which is your hammock and you. Because the center
              of hammock is closer to the ground than the attached hammock supports the
              lightning will take that exit path to ground as well. A hammock is no place
              to be in a lightning storm. If you're in a storm or its approaching, leave
              the hammock or set it up as a tent type shelter well away from trees until
              it passes.

              Don't think it can't happen to you. In June 2006 my twin brother was killed
              in his Hennessy Hammock by a lightning strike on one of the support trees
              while kayak camping in NJ. He was a sailor, a pilot, and a ham radio
              operator (N2YAC) that was experienced with lightning. With 69 people killed
              in the US by lightning in 2006 what were the chances of it striking that one
              particular tree he had his hammock strung from? Don't think it can't happen
              to you because it can.

              I use carabiners for a quick disconnect on my hammock and can quickly get it
              set it up as a tent if lightning approaches. Have a plan. Pick a spot where
              it will be set up before it gets dark, know what to do and when to do it and
              most important of all - DO IT.

              http://new.photos.yahoo.com/allenemer/albums

              Dudley Emer
              KK7IF
              -----Original Message-----
              From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gerzson
              Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:34 PM
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] "Wet ropes can make excellent conductors."


              I think that if you hang high enough (1m) the lightning may prefer to
              go through the wet bark (much larger than the rope) instead of going
              through the rope then leaping through the air to the ground.
              I have never heard of anybody struck by lightning in a hammock.
              Is there at least a known case?

              gerzson

              On 1/24/07, Sandy Kramer <sandykayak@...> wrote:
              >
              > Not many good options.
              >
              >
              > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ed Speer
              Thanks for your story Dudley. Sorry to hear about your brother s tragic death. Sharing that story should be a wakeup call to everyone and may prevent another
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 25, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks for your story Dudley. Sorry to hear about your brother's tragic
                death. Sharing that story should be a wakeup call to everyone and may
                prevent another death. And your advice to 'Have a plan & follow it" is well
                taken. While I've never been hit by lighting, I have been in some storms
                that worried me. In addition to the actual passage of the electric charge,
                which of course scares the hell out of me, I also worry about shrapnel or
                falling limbs from a tree that gets hit. I've noticed many 'exploded' trees
                on ridgelines from past storms and I certainly would not want to be anywhere
                near any of those trees at the time. The dangers of lighting are manifold
                so like you said, the best plan of action is be aware, have a plan and
                actively follow avoidance..Ed



                Moderator, Hammock Camping List
                Author, Hammock Camping, The Complete Guide

                Editor, Hammock Camping News

                Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



                _____

                From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of D. Emer
                Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:00 AM
                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SPAM] RE: [Hammock Camping] "Wet ropes can make excellent
                conductors." lightning strikes



                Lightning likes trees, they're high and conductive and present a great
                ground with the root system. If you or your hammock is attached to that
                tree (or in close proximity to it) it's part of the circuit with a path more
                conductive than air. The strike will flow along the tree and out along
                anything connected to it which is your hammock and you. Because the center
                of hammock is closer to the ground than the attached hammock supports the
                lightning will take that exit path to ground as well. A hammock is no place
                to be in a lightning storm. If you're in a storm or its approaching, leave
                the hammock or set it up as a tent type shelter well away from trees until
                it passes.

                Don't think it can't happen to you. In June 2006 my twin brother was killed
                in his Hennessy Hammock by a lightning strike on one of the support trees
                while kayak camping in NJ. He was a sailor, a pilot, and a ham radio
                operator (N2YAC) that was experienced with lightning. With 69 people killed
                in the US by lightning in 2006 what were the chances of it striking that one
                particular tree he had his hammock strung from? Don't think it can't happen
                to you because it can.

                I use carabiners for a quick disconnect on my hammock and can quickly get it
                set it up as a tent if lightning approaches. Have a plan. Pick a spot where
                it will be set up before it gets dark, know what to do and when to do it and
                most important of all - DO IT.

                http://new.photos <http://new.photos.yahoo.com/allenemer/albums>
                yahoo.com/allenemer/albums

                Dudley Emer
                KK7IF
                -----Original Message-----
                From: hammockcamping@ <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:hammockcamping@ <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gerzson
                Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:34 PM
                To: hammockcamping@ <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] "Wet ropes can make excellent conductors."

                I think that if you hang high enough (1m) the lightning may prefer to
                go through the wet bark (much larger than the rope) instead of going
                through the rope then leaping through the air to the ground.
                I have never heard of anybody struck by lightning in a hammock.
                Is there at least a known case?

                gerzson

                On 1/24/07, Sandy Kramer <sandykayak@yahoo. <mailto:sandykayak%40yahoo.com>
                com> wrote:
                >
                > Not many good options.
                >
                >
                > http://www.lightnin <http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm>
                gsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dick Matthews
                Sorry for your loss Mr Emer. I have twin nephews and have observed the special bond. Do you think the risk can be reduced by: 1. Selecting trees that are not
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 25, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Sorry for your loss Mr Emer. I have twin nephews and have observed the
                  special bond.

                  Do you think the risk can be reduced by:

                  1. Selecting trees that are not the tallest in the immediate area,

                  2. Avoiding high ground, or

                  3. Keeping your hammock lines dry by covering with snake skins?

                  Dick Matthews
                  "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
                  - Ben Franklin


                  D. Emer wrote:

                  > Lightning likes trees, they're high and conductive and present a great
                  > ground with the root system. If you or your hammock is attached to that
                  > tree (or in close proximity to it) it's part of the circuit with a
                  > path more
                  > conductive than air. The strike will flow along the tree and out along
                  > anything connected to it which is your hammock and you. Because the center
                  > of hammock is closer to the ground than the attached hammock supports the
                  > lightning will take that exit path to ground as well. A hammock is no
                  > place
                  > to be in a lightning storm. If you're in a storm or its approaching, leave
                  > the hammock or set it up as a tent type shelter well away from trees until
                  > it passes.
                  >
                  > Don't think it can't happen to you. In June 2006 my twin brother was
                  > killed
                  > in his Hennessy Hammock by a lightning strike on one of the support trees
                  > while kayak camping in NJ. He was a sailor, a pilot, and a ham radio
                  > operator (N2YAC) that was experienced with lightning. With 69 people
                  > killed
                  > in the US by lightning in 2006 what were the chances of it striking
                  > that one
                  > particular tree he had his hammock strung from? Don't think it can't
                  > happen
                  > to you because it can.
                  >
                  > I use carabiners for a quick disconnect on my hammock and can quickly
                  > get it
                  > set it up as a tent if lightning approaches. Have a plan. Pick a spot
                  > where
                  > it will be set up before it gets dark, know what to do and when to do
                  > it and
                  > most important of all - DO IT.
                  >
                  > http://new.photos.yahoo.com/allenemer/albums
                  > <http://new.photos.yahoo.com/allenemer/albums>
                  >
                  > Dudley Emer
                  > KK7IF
                  > --
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mark
                  Trees are NOT good conductors of electricity ... wood, in fact, is a natural insulator of electricity ... it s the Water in the tree that makes it a conductor.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 25, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Trees are NOT good conductors of electricity ... wood, in fact, is a
                    natural insulator of electricity ... it's the Water in the tree that
                    makes it a conductor. Wet wood is, however, a slightly better
                    conductor of electricity than air, which is why trees get struck by
                    lighting at all.

                    This water in the tree is also why a Tree tends to explode when struck
                    by lighting ... the water becomes superheated steam, expands, and
                    exits the first place it can.

                    If a tree were a good conductor of electricity, then it would act as a
                    natural lighting rod and being under a tree in a thunderstorm would be
                    the best instead of the one of the worst places you can be.

                    You, however, being made up of 70% water, are a much better conductor
                    of electricity than the tree .... it is not uncommon for lighting to
                    strike a top portion of a tree, travel down the tree's length, and
                    exit the trunk into a better conductor. If you happen to be within 15
                    to 20 ft of the trunk, then the air gap between you and the tree, and
                    your body, becomes the better conductor. If you, laying in a hammock,
                    within 15 to 20 feet of the trunk, and your butt is close enough to
                    the ground, then you plus the air gap between your butt and the ground
                    become a better conductor than the tree.

                    Then you have .... Side Strike.

                    And the distance between you and ground is going to be dependent on
                    the humidity levels, type of soil, moisture in the soil, surface area
                    of your butt, and a host of other variables.

                    As a previous poster mentioned ... the safest place to be is well away
                    from the tree, and even when set up as a tent ... you still want to be
                    well away from the trunk.

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Dick Matthews <dick@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Sorry for your loss Mr Emer. I have twin nephews and have observed the
                    > special bond.
                    >
                    > Do you think the risk can be reduced by:
                  • D. Emer
                    We did have that special bond alright. Words can t describe how we miss him. 1. I don t think it matters on tree height, lower the better if course, but if the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 25, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      We did have that special bond alright. Words can't describe how we miss him.

                      1. I don't think it matters on tree height, lower the better if course, but
                      if the short tree is in conductive soil the strike will form where the
                      current flows best and that's an unknown to the camper so I'd think the idea
                      of tree height may give a false sense of security. Personally I pick the
                      best spot, with the best tree, with the best view and enjoy myself. When
                      lightning approaches I disconnect and set up as a tent in a low area that
                      I've already eyeballed for just that event. The hardest thing is actually
                      deciding to do it before the rain, wind and the lightning thunder are
                      crashing all around you and you wished you had (Yeah, been there done that
                      too!). Would you do the tie-a-key-to-a kite-string thing in a thunder
                      storm? me neither, yet a hammock tied to a tree with you as the key is the
                      direct analog - try not to forget that.

                      2. I would avoid high ground alright. Be the smallest object on the lowest
                      ground would be a good idea.

                      3. Ever watch a hot air balloon hit a power line? At 600 volts Nylon
                      conducts electricity, a lighting strike is 10 to 100 million volts at 30,000
                      amps with a core temperature temperature of up to 50,000 deg F. It doesn't
                      matter what's in the path, it's insignificant, there are no dielectrics
                      under these conditions.

                      The idea here is we're all out having having fun and enjoying nature, just
                      realize when nature gets serious you need to have a plan and follow it.

                      Dudley Emer
                      KK7IF


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Matthews
                      Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:47 AM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] "Wet ropes can make excellent conductors."
                      lightning strikes


                      Sorry for your loss Mr Emer. I have twin nephews and have observed the
                      special bond.

                      Do you think the risk can be reduced by:

                      1. Selecting trees that are not the tallest in the immediate area,

                      2. Avoiding high ground, or

                      3. Keeping your hammock lines dry by covering with snake skins?

                      Dick Matthews
                      "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
                      - Ben Franklin

                      D. Emer wrote:

                      > Lightning likes trees, they're high and conductive and present a great
                      > ground with the root system. If you or your hammock is attached to that
                      > tree (or in close proximity to it) it's part of the circuit with a
                      > path more
                      > conductive than air. The strike will flow along the tree and out along
                      > anything connected to it which is your hammock and you. Because the
                      center
                      > of hammock is closer to the ground than the attached hammock supports
                      the
                      > lightning will take that exit path to ground as well. A hammock is no
                      > place
                      > to be in a lightning storm. If you're in a storm or its approaching,
                      leave
                      > the hammock or set it up as a tent type shelter well away from trees
                      until
                      > it passes.
                      >
                      > Don't think it can't happen to you. In June 2006 my twin brother was
                      > killed
                      > in his Hennessy Hammock by a lightning strike on one of the support
                      trees
                      > while kayak camping in NJ. He was a sailor, a pilot, and a ham radio
                      > operator (N2YAC) that was experienced with lightning. With 69 people
                      > killed
                      > in the US by lightning in 2006 what were the chances of it striking
                      > that one
                      > particular tree he had his hammock strung from? Don't think it can't
                      > happen
                      > to you because it can.
                      >
                      > I use carabiners for a quick disconnect on my hammock and can quickly
                      > get it
                      > set it up as a tent if lightning approaches. Have a plan. Pick a spot
                      > where
                      > it will be set up before it gets dark, know what to do and when to do
                      > it and
                      > most important of all - DO IT.
                      >
                      > http://new.photos.yahoo.com/allenemer/albums
                      > <http://new.photos.yahoo.com/allenemer/albums>
                      >
                      > Dudley Emer
                      > KK7IF
                      > --
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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