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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one (v1)

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  • tim garner
    dave... verson 1 is just refering to my first down hammock... the one in the photos. the first drawing, labeled v1, shows how i put it together. i belive the
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 5, 2006
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      dave... verson 1 is just refering to my first down hammock... the one in the photos.
      the first drawing, labeled v1, shows how i put it together.
      i belive the only reason it ripped is because the outter shell didn`t have enough alowance from end to end, & began to pull.
      verson two (v2) is just a drawing at this point... sewing mach problems again.
      ...tim

      Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
      Tim,

      I'm not sure what your version 1 is.

      Dave

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "tim garner"
      wrote:
      >
      > if you look in the photo album "slowhike down hammock", you`ll see
      a
      > color drawing of how i put together my 1st down hammock.
      > also you`ll see a picture of the finished hammock.
      > i wasn`t really happy w/ the thinner strips of insulation where the
      > side compartments met the bottom compartment, but it was plenty
      warm in
      > the back yard at around 39-40°f & would have went lower.
      > but i awoke about 1:00am to a slow RIIIPPPP!
      > i had alowed extra fabric for the outer shell, but not enough.
      > apparantly, through the night the hammock body continued to strech
      > until it began to pull the shell tight. see photos.
      > i decided to try another using a double hammock of 1.1 oz ripstop
      > like shown in the next drawing (v2).
      > i`m hoping to get some feed back from ed, dave, & any others that
      > have experimented w/ this kind of thing... or questions from anyone
      > that`s just curious. ...tim
      >





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    • Dave Womble
      Tim, I m sorry, I guess I m going to be difficult . I can t figure out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to comment so I ll throw out a bunch of
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 5, 2006
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        Tim,

        I'm sorry, I guess I'm going to be difficult <grin>. I can't figure
        out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to comment so I'll
        throw out a bunch of questions and see if it leads to anything.

        Is the hammock fabric 1.9 oz rip stop nylon (RSN) or is it 1.1 RSN or
        is it some other material and is it calendered and/or have a DWR
        coating? Is the down contained in one large compartment like Rick's
        warm hammock or does it have several baffled chambers along the lines
        of what Jeff was doing at one time? What are the dimensions of the
        hammock, the insulation and the dimensions where the shell attaches
        to the hammock? Some tougher questions that you may not know and I
        may not know what difference it makes either: what size needle (and
        was it a universal or ball point), what type of thread did you use
        (polyester, nylon, cotton, etc.) and do you have any idea of the
        thread thickness, diameter, etc?

        In photo 1 of 6, "rip across shell attachment seen from inside", I
        can see a zigzag stitch but it doesn't appear that the tear is at the
        stitching, although it seems that it would have started at the
        stitching somewhere. And it doesn't look like the hammock fabric is
        a rip stop material. Are those observations correct?

        Dave
      • tim garner
        Dave Womble wrote: Tim, I m sorry, I guess I m going to be difficult . I can t figure out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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          Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: Tim,

          I'm sorry, I guess I'm going to be difficult . I can't figure
          out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to comment so I'll
          throw out a bunch of questions and see if it leads to anything.

          Is the hammock fabric 1.9 oz rip stop nylon (RSN) or is it 1.1 RSN or
          is it some other material and is it calendered and/or have a DWR
          coating?
          ### the fabric is from the $1.00 bin & i belive it came out to over 2 ozs per sq yard. i don`t think it has any treatment, but it has a soft feel & look that reminds me of parichute material.

          Is the down contained in one large compartment like Rick's
          warm hammock or does it have several baffled chambers along the lines
          of what Jeff was doing at one time?
          ###if you look at the ist color drawing, i edited the caption to say version one (v1).
          that`s how i did it, w/ three horisonal compartments going from end to end.

          What are the dimensions of the
          hammock, the insulation and the dimensions where the shell attaches
          to the hammock?
          ###the hammock is 10' x 50".
          the side baffles are sewn at the top edges & they are sewn to the bottom compatment 13" below the top. the bottom compartment is sewn at both top edges of the hammock body. all three compartments are 8' long & sewn across the hammock body about one foot from the hammock ends.
          i don`t remember the demintions of the three shell parts that formed the three compartments. i just made them a fair amount larger. some parts i probably made more than large enough, & other parts i did not make large enough.
          i used 3ozs of ed`s 900 down in each compartment for a total of 9ozs.

          Some tougher questions that you may not know and I
          may not know what difference it makes either: what size needle (and
          was it a universal or ball point),
          ### the needle is a 80/12 sharps. i had already used it for a while & probably should change needles more offten from what i`ve been told.

          what type of thread did you use
          (polyester, nylon, cotton, etc.) and do you have any idea of the
          thread thickness, diameter, etc?
          ### the thread is for embrodery i was told... FUJIX KING STAR (brand), 120d/2 (no.40). pollyester i belive.

          In photo 1 of 6, "rip across shell attachment seen from inside", I
          can see a zigzag stitch but it doesn't appear that the tear is at the
          stitching, although it seems that it would have started at the
          stitching somewhere. And it doesn't look like the hammock fabric is
          a rip stop material. Are those observations correct?

          Dave
          ### the rip started on the zigzag stich, but vered of of it after a few inches.
          nope, not rip stop.

          what i have learned from that experiment is that when using large compartments that form a wedge shape, some of the down is going to find it`s way into the small places & be traped & compressed, therfore useless.
          also that down is so light & fluffy that even the weight of the shell (which was 1.1 ripstop by the way) seems to lay heavy on the down when trying to use those large compartments. i belive to get the most insulation from the down, smaller compartments w/ baffles will provide better structure & alow the down to retain it`s loft better & not get smushed in small places.
          i appreciate your help dave. ...tim


          .



          don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


          ---------------------------------
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        • Dave Womble
          Tim, Just a quick response as I just saw you post and I am heading out the door for lunch, but the first think I would do different is to standardize on the
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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            Tim,

            Just a quick response as I just saw you post and I am heading out the
            door for lunch, but the first think I would do different is to
            standardize on the hammock fabric so I knew what it was and could
            characterize how much stretch it has because if you are going to attach
            some insulation to it, you must allow for that stretch. Heck, even if
            you don't attach the insulation directly to the body of the hammock I
            would want to know how much it stretched in order to come up with a
            suspension system that allowed for that amount of stretch. I have been
            very pleased with the 1.9 oz rip stop nylon fabric with DWR that I find
            at my local fabric shops. It is what Ed recommended in his book and I
            think he still uses it for his A model hammocks. (In looking over his
            web site recently, I see he now offers it for sell at a very good
            price... I question his 65" width on it as what I keep seeing at my
            local fabric stores is 60-62", I believe. The 65" width is what I
            typically have seen for 1.1 oz RSN and silnylon.)

            Dave
          • tim garner
            dave... i`ll look over the fabric ed has on his site. i`ll look forward to hearing more as you get a chance. i d also love to hear about the new stuff you &
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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              dave... i`ll look over the fabric ed has on his site. i`ll look forward to hearing more as you get a chance.
              i'd also love to hear about the new stuff you & ed have been working on.... i know, i know, you could tell me but you`d have to kill me <G>. ...tim
              PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth camping<g>?

              Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
              Tim,

              Just a quick response as I just saw you post and I am heading out the
              door for lunch, but the first think I would do different is to
              standardize on the hammock fabric so I knew what it was and could
              characterize how much stretch it has because if you are going to attach
              some insulation to it, you must allow for that stretch. Heck, even if
              you don't attach the insulation directly to the body of the hammock I
              would want to know how much it stretched in order to come up with a
              suspension system that allowed for that amount of stretch. I have been
              very pleased with the 1.9 oz rip stop nylon fabric with DWR that I find
              at my local fabric shops. It is what Ed recommended in his book and I
              think he still uses it for his A model hammocks. (In looking over his
              web site recently, I see he now offers it for sell at a very good
              price... I question his 65" width on it as what I keep seeing at my
              local fabric stores is 60-62", I believe. The 65" width is what I
              typically have seen for 1.1 oz RSN and silnylon.)

              Dave
              .


              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


              ---------------------------------
              Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave Womble
              ... of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth camping ? ... Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with a
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...>
                wrote:
                >

                > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                camping<g>?
                >

                Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.

                If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992

                These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                http://tinyurl.com/t425g

                Dave
              • tim garner
                man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t guess you can have
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                  man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t guess you can have both on the same computer?
                  great photos. makes me wish i was there.
                  that`s pretty interresting about the stelth camp site. i saw what looked like an old shed roof in one photo & in the next photo, was that part of a sm plane or what? ...tim

                  Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                  wrote:
                  >

                  > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                  of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                  camping?
                  >

                  Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                  a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                  authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                  book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                  notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                  campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                  behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                  large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                  had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                  before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                  cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                  almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                  and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                  of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                  country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                  in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                  much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                  over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                  thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.

                  If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                  posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                  they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992

                  These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                  http://tinyurl.com/t425g

                  Dave




                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                  don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                  ---------------------------------
                  Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Dave Womble
                  Tim, it is not my web site. On IE, the descriptions seperate from the small photos when you scroll down the page to see the enlarged photo. It doesn do that
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                    Tim, it is not my web site. On IE, the descriptions seperate from the
                    small photos when you scroll down the page to see the enlarged photo.
                    It doesn' do that on FireFox or Netscape. You can read the
                    description in IE if you stay at the top of the page.

                    Dave



                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched
                    back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t
                    guess you can have both on the same computer?
                    > great photos. makes me wish i was there.
                    > that`s pretty interresting about the stelth camp site. i saw what
                    looked like an old shed roof in one photo & in the next photo, was
                    that part of a sm plane or what? ...tim
                    >
                    > Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    >
                    > > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                    > of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                    > camping?
                    > >
                    >
                    > Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                    > a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                    > authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                    > book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                    > notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                    > campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                    > behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                    > large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                    > had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                    > before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                    > cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                    > almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                    > and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                    > of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                    > country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                    > in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                    > much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                    > over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                    > thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.
                    >
                    > If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                    > posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                    > they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992
                    >
                    > These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                    > http://tinyurl.com/t425g
                    >
                    > Dave
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Cara Lin Bridgman
                    I ve always had both on the same computer. In fact, FireFox has an IE tab that works only if you have IE installed. Is it FireFox 2 you re having trouble
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                      I've always had both on the same computer. In fact, FireFox has an IE
                      tab that works only if you have IE installed.

                      Is it FireFox 2 you're having trouble with? A lot of people are.

                      CL

                      tim garner wrote:
                      > man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched
                      > back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t
                      > guess you can have both on the same computer?
                    • tim garner
                      i went back & found that if i put my curser (arrow) on a thumbnail, it would show your description. ...tim Dave Womble wrote: Tim, it
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                        i went back & found that if i put my curser (arrow) on a thumbnail, it would show your description. ...tim

                        Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: Tim, it is not my web site. On IE, the descriptions seperate from the
                        small photos when you scroll down the page to see the enlarged photo.
                        It doesn' do that on FireFox or Netscape. You can read the
                        description in IE if you stay at the top of the page.

                        Dave
                        .

                        don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                        ---------------------------------
                        Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • tim garner
                        i think it was the new version of firefox. i belive it was doing fine untill they up-graded it i came in from a backpacking trip a couple weekends ago &
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                          i think it was the new version of firefox. i belive it was doing fine untill they "up-graded" it<g>
                          i came in from a backpacking trip a couple weekends ago & it was swiched back to internet explorer. i thought at first that my nephew had done it, but mabey not?
                          IE seems to be working fine now. i just lost all my bookmarks. ...tim

                          Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                          I've always had both on the same computer. In fact, FireFox has an IE
                          tab that works only if you have IE installed.

                          Is it FireFox 2 you're having trouble with? A lot of people are.

                          CL
                          0

                          don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                          ---------------------------------
                          Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Cara Lin Bridgman
                          Ouch! I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places: C: Documents and
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                            Ouch!

                            I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                            d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                            C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                            This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                            include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                            I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                            reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                            Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                            functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                            evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                            system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                            literally (more ouch!)

                            CL

                            tim garner wrote:
                            > IE seems to be working fine now. i just lost all my bookmarks. ...tim
                          • tim garner
                            i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external hard drive to store photos & stuff on. gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                              i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                              gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim

                              Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                              Ouch!

                              I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                              d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                              C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                              This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                              include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                              I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                              reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                              Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                              functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                              evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                              system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                              literally (more ouch!)

                              CL..


                              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                              ---------------------------------
                              Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Tom Blum
                              Tim, Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way there if you run XP. You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
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                                Tim,

                                Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way there if you run XP.

                                You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup software will put a backup on the external hard drive, but will be unable to detect it when you want to restore.

                                The whole "system state" thing is a fussy little bugger.
                                Tom


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: tim garner
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:23 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one (v1)


                                i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                                gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim

                                Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                                Ouch!

                                I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                                This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                                I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                                Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                                functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                literally (more ouch!)

                                CL..

                                don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!

                                ---------------------------------
                                Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                No virus found in this incoming message.
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Carey Parks
                                Another option for all those who don t want to lose their hammock camping photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to go with your
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
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                                  Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock camping
                                  photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to go with
                                  your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the two, but I
                                  know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                  allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any day in
                                  the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certian files that I
                                  might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not affiliated
                                  with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tom Blum
                                  Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:23 AM
                                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                  (v1)


                                  Tim,

                                  Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way there
                                  if you run XP.

                                  You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup software
                                  will put a backup on the external hard drive, but will be unable to detect
                                  it when you want to restore.

                                  The whole "system state" thing is a fussy little bugger.
                                  Tom

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: tim garner
                                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:23 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                  (v1)

                                  i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external
                                  hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                                  gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim

                                  Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                                  Ouch!

                                  I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                  d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                  C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                                  This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                  include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                                  I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                  reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                                  Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                                  functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                  evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                  system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                  literally (more ouch!)

                                  CL..

                                  don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!

                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                  Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.11/575 - Release Date: 12/6/2006
                                  12:22 PM

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • mrbyer
                                  And yet another option is to use cd-roms for each folder and burn a disk every once in a while and save the cd-roms in an organized fashion. ... camping ...
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    And yet another option is to use cd-roms for each "folder" and burn a
                                    disk every once in a while and save the cd-roms in an organized fashion.

                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Carey Parks" <cjp129@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock
                                    camping
                                    > photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to
                                    go with
                                    > your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the
                                    two, but I
                                    > know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                    > allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any
                                    day in
                                    > the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certian files
                                    that I
                                    > might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not
                                    affiliated
                                    > with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    > [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tom Blum
                                    > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:23 AM
                                    > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                    > (v1)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Tim,
                                    >
                                    > Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way
                                    there
                                    > if you run XP.
                                    >
                                    > You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup
                                    software
                                    > will put a backup on the external hard drive, but will be unable to
                                    detect
                                    > it when you want to restore.
                                    >
                                    > The whole "system state" thing is a fussy little bugger.
                                    > Tom
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: tim garner
                                    > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:23 AM
                                    > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                    > (v1)
                                    >
                                    > i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an
                                    external
                                    > hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                                    > gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim
                                    >
                                    > Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                                    > Ouch!
                                    >
                                    > I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                    > d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                    > C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla
                                    >
                                    > This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                    > include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.
                                    >
                                    > I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                    > reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.
                                    >
                                    > Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two
                                    ways: 1)
                                    > functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                    > evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                    > system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                    > literally (more ouch!)
                                    >
                                    > CL..
                                    >
                                    > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                                    >
                                    > ---------------------------------
                                    > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.11/575 - Release Date:
                                    12/6/2006
                                    > 12:22 PM
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • tim garner
                                    you guys are talkin greek to me ... but i do appreciate it. what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together w/ a friend who does know computers
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      you guys are talkin greek to me<G>... but i do appreciate it.
                                      what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together w/ a friend who does know computers to see what we can come up w/. we have talked about this before, just haven`t got anything set up on my computer yet.
                                      i hate to ask another non-hammock question (i`ve never seen ed mad, but i don`t really want to<g>), but my subscription w/ norton antivirus runs out today. i`m wondering what are the opinions on norton, one of the other paid services, or one of the free anti virus services?
                                      you can email me direct at slowhike@...
                                      after all... my computer is more about hammocking than anything else<G>. ...tim

                                      Carey Parks <cjp129@...> wrote:
                                      Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock camping
                                      photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to go with
                                      your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the two, but I
                                      know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                      allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any day in
                                      the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certain files that I
                                      might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not affiliated
                                      with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.
                                      .


                                      don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                                      ---------------------------------
                                      Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • mrbyer
                                      AVG by grisoft is awesome. Best of all it is free. Here is a link to Cnet s download website which has reviews and more:
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        AVG by grisoft is awesome. Best of all it is free.

                                        Here is a link to Cnet's download website which has reviews and more:

                                        http://www.download.com/AVG-Anti-Virus-Free-Edition/3000-2239_4-10596553.html?tag=lst-0-1


                                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > you guys are talkin greek to me<G>... but i do appreciate it.
                                        > what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together
                                        w/ a friend who does know computers to see what we can come up w/. we
                                        have talked about this before, just haven`t got anything set up on my
                                        computer yet.
                                        > i hate to ask another non-hammock question (i`ve never seen ed
                                        mad, but i don`t really want to<g>), but my subscription w/ norton
                                        antivirus runs out today. i`m wondering what are the opinions on
                                        norton, one of the other paid services, or one of the free anti virus
                                        services?
                                        > you can email me direct at slowhike@...
                                        > after all... my computer is more about hammocking than anything
                                        else<G>. ...tim
                                        >
                                        > Carey Parks <cjp129@...> wrote:
                                        > Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock
                                        camping
                                        > photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to
                                        go with
                                        > your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the
                                        two, but I
                                        > know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                        > allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any
                                        day in
                                        > the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certain files
                                        that I
                                        > might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not
                                        affiliated
                                        > with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.
                                        > .
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Scott
                                        Norton is one of the best. If you download google pack, which is free, you also get a free copy of Norton. It is not an eval copy either, it is fully
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Norton is one of the best. If you download google pack, which is free, you
                                          also get a free copy of Norton. It is not an eval copy either, it is fully
                                          functional.

                                          http://pack.google.com/intl/en/pack_installer_required.html?hl=en&gl=us

                                          --
                                          Scott
                                          www.HikeHaven.com
                                          "Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open."
                                          James Dewar Scottish physicist 1842 –1923

                                          On Thursday 07 December 2006 16:15, tim garner wrote:
                                          > you guys are talkin greek to me<G>... but i do appreciate it.
                                          > what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together w/ a
                                          > friend who does know computers to see what we can come
                                          uphttp://pack.google.com/intl/en/pack_installer_required.html?hl=en&gl=us w/.
                                          we have
                                          > talked about this before, just haven`t got anything set up on my computer
                                          > yet. i hate to ask another non-hammock question (i`ve never seen ed mad,
                                          > but i don`t really want to<g>), but my subscription w/ norton antivirus
                                          > runs out today. i`m wondering what are the opinions on norton, one of the
                                          > other paid services, or one of the free anti virus services? you can email
                                          > me direct at slowhike@...
                                          > after all... my computer is more about hammocking than anything else<G>.
                                          > ...tim
                                          >
                                        • Robert Woods
                                          Dave, I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges during the day and
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Dave,

                                            I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges during the day and walked until almost dark before we stopped. We stopped short of our destination but we did not know how close we where.

                                            The next morning we got up and broke camp. About 200 yards down the trail we came to the campsite we were too tired to reach the night before. Sitting there was John Ray eating breakfast. We talked for about 10 minutes. He was doing research on a trail guide for the Foothills trail. He informed us about his trail guide to the Bartram trail in Georgia.

                                            I still look forward to reading John's book as the Georgia section of the Bartram trail will be my early spring hike in 2008.

                                            Bobby

                                            Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >

                                            > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                                            of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                                            camping<g>?
                                            >

                                            Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                                            a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                                            authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                                            book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                                            notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                                            campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                                            behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                                            large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                                            had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                                            before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                                            cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                                            almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                                            and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                                            of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                                            country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                                            in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                                            much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                                            over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                                            thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.

                                            If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                                            posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                                            they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992

                                            These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                                            http://tinyurl.com/t425g

                                            Dave






                                            ---------------------------------
                                            Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Dave Womble
                                            Bobby, John writes excellent guide books. The Georgia section of the Bartram Trail has some great campsites along the Chatooga River, some neat small
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 8, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Bobby,

                                              John writes excellent guide books.

                                              The Georgia section of the Bartram Trail has some great campsites
                                              along the Chatooga River, some neat small waterfalls and the viewing
                                              tower on Raburn Bald. A couple of times I have been on Raburn Bald
                                              when there was a recent hatch of small, troublesome, flying insects.
                                              That is a bummer when that happens as you don't want to hang around
                                              and take in the view. Most of the times I have been there, you take
                                              a nap or have a lunch break. The section between Warwoman Dell and
                                              the Chatooga River has the most impressive spider webs I have run
                                              into. They are so strong they almost stop you in your tracks when
                                              you run into them. They are impressive and I think you will remember
                                              them if you encounter them. I enchanged posts with a fellow from
                                              Florida, I believe, on a Georgia hiking site I frequent who had
                                              turned the Georgia Bartram Trail into a loop hike by adding about an
                                              8 mile roadwalk along the forest service roads to connect the two
                                              trailheads. I think he may have shaved a few miles off by exiting
                                              Raburn Bald to the east via the Three Forks Trail(?) as well. Hope
                                              you enjoy the hike. If you are up to it, there is a great vista on a
                                              step side trail up to Pinnacle Peak, or some name like that, seems
                                              like it is less than a mile off the trail. I think it is about 4
                                              miles north of Warwoman Dell. There are some great sunset views, a
                                              spot for one tent and several hammocks up there.

                                              Dave


                                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woods <rlwoods61@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Dave,
                                              >
                                              > I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills
                                              Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges
                                              during the day and walked until almost dark before we stopped. We
                                              stopped short of our destination but we did not know how close we
                                              where.
                                              >
                                              > The next morning we got up and broke camp. About 200 yards down
                                              the trail we came to the campsite we were too tired to reach the
                                              night before. Sitting there was John Ray eating breakfast. We
                                              talked for about 10 minutes. He was doing research on a trail guide
                                              for the Foothills trail. He informed us about his trail guide to the
                                              Bartram trail in Georgia.
                                              >
                                              > I still look forward to reading John's book as the Georgia
                                              section of the Bartram trail will be my early spring hike in 2008.
                                              >
                                              > Bobby
                                              >
                                              > Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                                              <slowhike@>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                                              > of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                                              > camping<g>?
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                                              > a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                                              > authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                                              > book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                                              > notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                                              > campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                                              > behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                                              > large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                                              > had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                                              > before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                                              > cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered
                                              trees...
                                              > almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that
                                              area
                                              > and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was
                                              kind
                                              > of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                                              > country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt
                                              motorcyclist
                                              > in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                                              > much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make
                                              it
                                              > over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                                              > thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.
                                              >
                                              > If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                                              > posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                                              > they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992
                                              >
                                              > These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                                              > http://tinyurl.com/t425g
                                              >
                                              > Dave
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ---------------------------------
                                              > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • Robert Woods
                                              Dave, Thanks for the info. I will save it and review when we get ready to hke that section. Bobby Dave Womble wrote: Bobby, John writes
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Dec 8, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Dave,

                                                Thanks for the info. I will save it and review when we get ready to hke that section.

                                                Bobby


                                                Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                                Bobby,

                                                John writes excellent guide books.

                                                The Georgia section of the Bartram Trail has some great campsites
                                                along the Chatooga River, some neat small waterfalls and the viewing
                                                tower on Raburn Bald. A couple of times I have been on Raburn Bald
                                                when there was a recent hatch of small, troublesome, flying insects.
                                                That is a bummer when that happens as you don't want to hang around
                                                and take in the view. Most of the times I have been there, you take
                                                a nap or have a lunch break. The section between Warwoman Dell and
                                                the Chatooga River has the most impressive spider webs I have run
                                                into. They are so strong they almost stop you in your tracks when
                                                you run into them. They are impressive and I think you will remember
                                                them if you encounter them. I enchanged posts with a fellow from
                                                Florida, I believe, on a Georgia hiking site I frequent who had
                                                turned the Georgia Bartram Trail into a loop hike by adding about an
                                                8 mile roadwalk along the forest service roads to connect the two
                                                trailheads. I think he may have shaved a few miles off by exiting
                                                Raburn Bald to the east via the Three Forks Trail(?) as well. Hope
                                                you enjoy the hike. If you are up to it, there is a great vista on a
                                                step side trail up to Pinnacle Peak, or some name like that, seems
                                                like it is less than a mile off the trail. I think it is about 4
                                                miles north of Warwoman Dell. There are some great sunset views, a
                                                spot for one tent and several hammocks up there.

                                                Dave

                                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woods <rlwoods61@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Dave,
                                                >
                                                > I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills
                                                Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges
                                                during the day and walked until almost dark before we stopped. We
                                                stopped short of our destination but we did not know how close we
                                                where.
                                                >
                                                > The next morning we got up and broke camp. About 200 yards down
                                                the trail we came to the campsite we were too tired to reach the
                                                night before. Sitting there was John Ray eating breakfast. We
                                                talked for about 10 minutes. He was doing research on a trail guide
                                                for the Foothills trail. He informed us about his trail guide to the
                                                Bartram trail in Georgia.
                                                >
                                                > I still look forward to reading John's book as the Georgia
                                                section of the Bartram trail will be my early spring hike in 2008.
                                                >
                                                > Bobby
                                                >
                                                > Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                                                <slowhike@>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                                                > of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                                                > camping<g>?
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                                                > a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                                                > authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                                                > book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                                                > notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                                                > campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                                                > behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                                                > large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                                                > had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                                                > before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                                                > cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered
                                                trees...
                                                > almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that
                                                area
                                                > and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was
                                                kind
                                                > of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                                                > country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt
                                                motorcyclist
                                                > in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                                                > much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make
                                                it
                                                > over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                                                > thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.
                                                >
                                                > If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                                                > posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                                                > they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992
                                                >
                                                > These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                                                > http://tinyurl.com/t425g
                                                >
                                                > Dave
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >






                                                ---------------------------------
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