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Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one (v1)

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  • Jeff
    Tim, On my first down hammock with two layers like the one you re making, sometimes I had a little gap between the layers near the long edge where the two
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 4, 2006
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      Tim,

      On my first down hammock with two layers like the one you're making,
      sometimes I had a little gap between the layers near the long edge
      where the two pieces separated. It only showed up when I got in the
      hammock...I guess the panels stretched at different rates. It was the
      same material, but obviously the layer I was on stretched more and
      took some of the weight off of the bottom layer. (Does that make any
      sense?) Depending on how I was laying, there could be a gap up to ~1"
      between me and the down. I never really had a problem with cold
      spots...but then it had ~10 oz of down and I never got below about 45F
      in it.

      Anyway, might be worth considering if you're using two layers.

      Jeff
    • Dave Womble
      Tim, I m not sure what your version 1 is. Dave ... a ... warm in
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 5, 2006
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        Tim,

        I'm not sure what your version 1 is.

        Dave

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "tim garner" <slowhike@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > if you look in the photo album "slowhike down hammock", you`ll see
        a
        > color drawing of how i put together my 1st down hammock.
        > also you`ll see a picture of the finished hammock.
        > i wasn`t really happy w/ the thinner strips of insulation where the
        > side compartments met the bottom compartment, but it was plenty
        warm in
        > the back yard at around 39-40°f & would have went lower.
        > but i awoke about 1:00am to a slow RIIIPPPP!
        > i had alowed extra fabric for the outer shell, but not enough.
        > apparantly, through the night the hammock body continued to strech
        > until it began to pull the shell tight. see photos.
        > i decided to try another using a double hammock of 1.1 oz ripstop
        > like shown in the next drawing (v2).
        > i`m hoping to get some feed back from ed, dave, & any others that
        > have experimented w/ this kind of thing... or questions from anyone
        > that`s just curious<g>. ...tim
        >
      • tim garner
        dave... verson 1 is just refering to my first down hammock... the one in the photos. the first drawing, labeled v1, shows how i put it together. i belive the
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 5, 2006
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          dave... verson 1 is just refering to my first down hammock... the one in the photos.
          the first drawing, labeled v1, shows how i put it together.
          i belive the only reason it ripped is because the outter shell didn`t have enough alowance from end to end, & began to pull.
          verson two (v2) is just a drawing at this point... sewing mach problems again.
          ...tim

          Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
          Tim,

          I'm not sure what your version 1 is.

          Dave

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "tim garner"
          wrote:
          >
          > if you look in the photo album "slowhike down hammock", you`ll see
          a
          > color drawing of how i put together my 1st down hammock.
          > also you`ll see a picture of the finished hammock.
          > i wasn`t really happy w/ the thinner strips of insulation where the
          > side compartments met the bottom compartment, but it was plenty
          warm in
          > the back yard at around 39-40°f & would have went lower.
          > but i awoke about 1:00am to a slow RIIIPPPP!
          > i had alowed extra fabric for the outer shell, but not enough.
          > apparantly, through the night the hammock body continued to strech
          > until it began to pull the shell tight. see photos.
          > i decided to try another using a double hammock of 1.1 oz ripstop
          > like shown in the next drawing (v2).
          > i`m hoping to get some feed back from ed, dave, & any others that
          > have experimented w/ this kind of thing... or questions from anyone
          > that`s just curious. ...tim
          >





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        • Dave Womble
          Tim, I m sorry, I guess I m going to be difficult . I can t figure out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to comment so I ll throw out a bunch of
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 5, 2006
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            Tim,

            I'm sorry, I guess I'm going to be difficult <grin>. I can't figure
            out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to comment so I'll
            throw out a bunch of questions and see if it leads to anything.

            Is the hammock fabric 1.9 oz rip stop nylon (RSN) or is it 1.1 RSN or
            is it some other material and is it calendered and/or have a DWR
            coating? Is the down contained in one large compartment like Rick's
            warm hammock or does it have several baffled chambers along the lines
            of what Jeff was doing at one time? What are the dimensions of the
            hammock, the insulation and the dimensions where the shell attaches
            to the hammock? Some tougher questions that you may not know and I
            may not know what difference it makes either: what size needle (and
            was it a universal or ball point), what type of thread did you use
            (polyester, nylon, cotton, etc.) and do you have any idea of the
            thread thickness, diameter, etc?

            In photo 1 of 6, "rip across shell attachment seen from inside", I
            can see a zigzag stitch but it doesn't appear that the tear is at the
            stitching, although it seems that it would have started at the
            stitching somewhere. And it doesn't look like the hammock fabric is
            a rip stop material. Are those observations correct?

            Dave
          • tim garner
            Dave Womble wrote: Tim, I m sorry, I guess I m going to be difficult . I can t figure out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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              Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: Tim,

              I'm sorry, I guess I'm going to be difficult . I can't figure
              out enough of the specifics of your version 1 to comment so I'll
              throw out a bunch of questions and see if it leads to anything.

              Is the hammock fabric 1.9 oz rip stop nylon (RSN) or is it 1.1 RSN or
              is it some other material and is it calendered and/or have a DWR
              coating?
              ### the fabric is from the $1.00 bin & i belive it came out to over 2 ozs per sq yard. i don`t think it has any treatment, but it has a soft feel & look that reminds me of parichute material.

              Is the down contained in one large compartment like Rick's
              warm hammock or does it have several baffled chambers along the lines
              of what Jeff was doing at one time?
              ###if you look at the ist color drawing, i edited the caption to say version one (v1).
              that`s how i did it, w/ three horisonal compartments going from end to end.

              What are the dimensions of the
              hammock, the insulation and the dimensions where the shell attaches
              to the hammock?
              ###the hammock is 10' x 50".
              the side baffles are sewn at the top edges & they are sewn to the bottom compatment 13" below the top. the bottom compartment is sewn at both top edges of the hammock body. all three compartments are 8' long & sewn across the hammock body about one foot from the hammock ends.
              i don`t remember the demintions of the three shell parts that formed the three compartments. i just made them a fair amount larger. some parts i probably made more than large enough, & other parts i did not make large enough.
              i used 3ozs of ed`s 900 down in each compartment for a total of 9ozs.

              Some tougher questions that you may not know and I
              may not know what difference it makes either: what size needle (and
              was it a universal or ball point),
              ### the needle is a 80/12 sharps. i had already used it for a while & probably should change needles more offten from what i`ve been told.

              what type of thread did you use
              (polyester, nylon, cotton, etc.) and do you have any idea of the
              thread thickness, diameter, etc?
              ### the thread is for embrodery i was told... FUJIX KING STAR (brand), 120d/2 (no.40). pollyester i belive.

              In photo 1 of 6, "rip across shell attachment seen from inside", I
              can see a zigzag stitch but it doesn't appear that the tear is at the
              stitching, although it seems that it would have started at the
              stitching somewhere. And it doesn't look like the hammock fabric is
              a rip stop material. Are those observations correct?

              Dave
              ### the rip started on the zigzag stich, but vered of of it after a few inches.
              nope, not rip stop.

              what i have learned from that experiment is that when using large compartments that form a wedge shape, some of the down is going to find it`s way into the small places & be traped & compressed, therfore useless.
              also that down is so light & fluffy that even the weight of the shell (which was 1.1 ripstop by the way) seems to lay heavy on the down when trying to use those large compartments. i belive to get the most insulation from the down, smaller compartments w/ baffles will provide better structure & alow the down to retain it`s loft better & not get smushed in small places.
              i appreciate your help dave. ...tim


              .



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              ---------------------------------
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            • Dave Womble
              Tim, Just a quick response as I just saw you post and I am heading out the door for lunch, but the first think I would do different is to standardize on the
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                Tim,

                Just a quick response as I just saw you post and I am heading out the
                door for lunch, but the first think I would do different is to
                standardize on the hammock fabric so I knew what it was and could
                characterize how much stretch it has because if you are going to attach
                some insulation to it, you must allow for that stretch. Heck, even if
                you don't attach the insulation directly to the body of the hammock I
                would want to know how much it stretched in order to come up with a
                suspension system that allowed for that amount of stretch. I have been
                very pleased with the 1.9 oz rip stop nylon fabric with DWR that I find
                at my local fabric shops. It is what Ed recommended in his book and I
                think he still uses it for his A model hammocks. (In looking over his
                web site recently, I see he now offers it for sell at a very good
                price... I question his 65" width on it as what I keep seeing at my
                local fabric stores is 60-62", I believe. The 65" width is what I
                typically have seen for 1.1 oz RSN and silnylon.)

                Dave
              • tim garner
                dave... i`ll look over the fabric ed has on his site. i`ll look forward to hearing more as you get a chance. i d also love to hear about the new stuff you &
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                  dave... i`ll look over the fabric ed has on his site. i`ll look forward to hearing more as you get a chance.
                  i'd also love to hear about the new stuff you & ed have been working on.... i know, i know, you could tell me but you`d have to kill me <G>. ...tim
                  PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth camping<g>?

                  Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                  Tim,

                  Just a quick response as I just saw you post and I am heading out the
                  door for lunch, but the first think I would do different is to
                  standardize on the hammock fabric so I knew what it was and could
                  characterize how much stretch it has because if you are going to attach
                  some insulation to it, you must allow for that stretch. Heck, even if
                  you don't attach the insulation directly to the body of the hammock I
                  would want to know how much it stretched in order to come up with a
                  suspension system that allowed for that amount of stretch. I have been
                  very pleased with the 1.9 oz rip stop nylon fabric with DWR that I find
                  at my local fabric shops. It is what Ed recommended in his book and I
                  think he still uses it for his A model hammocks. (In looking over his
                  web site recently, I see he now offers it for sell at a very good
                  price... I question his 65" width on it as what I keep seeing at my
                  local fabric stores is 60-62", I believe. The 65" width is what I
                  typically have seen for 1.1 oz RSN and silnylon.)

                  Dave
                  .


                  don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                  ---------------------------------
                  Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Dave Womble
                  ... of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth camping ? ... Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with a
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...>
                    wrote:
                    >

                    > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                    of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                    camping<g>?
                    >

                    Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                    a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                    authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                    book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                    notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                    campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                    behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                    large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                    had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                    before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                    cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                    almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                    and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                    of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                    country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                    in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                    much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                    over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                    thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.

                    If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                    posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                    they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992

                    These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                    http://tinyurl.com/t425g

                    Dave
                  • tim garner
                    man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t guess you can have
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                      man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t guess you can have both on the same computer?
                      great photos. makes me wish i was there.
                      that`s pretty interresting about the stelth camp site. i saw what looked like an old shed roof in one photo & in the next photo, was that part of a sm plane or what? ...tim

                      Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                      wrote:
                      >

                      > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                      of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                      camping?
                      >

                      Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                      a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                      authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                      book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                      notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                      campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                      behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                      large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                      had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                      before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                      cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                      almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                      and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                      of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                      country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                      in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                      much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                      over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                      thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.

                      If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                      posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                      they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992

                      These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                      http://tinyurl.com/t425g

                      Dave




                      Yahoo! Groups Links






                      don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                      ---------------------------------
                      Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dave Womble
                      Tim, it is not my web site. On IE, the descriptions seperate from the small photos when you scroll down the page to see the enlarged photo. It doesn do that
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                        Tim, it is not my web site. On IE, the descriptions seperate from the
                        small photos when you scroll down the page to see the enlarged photo.
                        It doesn' do that on FireFox or Netscape. You can read the
                        description in IE if you stay at the top of the page.

                        Dave



                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched
                        back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t
                        guess you can have both on the same computer?
                        > great photos. makes me wish i was there.
                        > that`s pretty interresting about the stelth camp site. i saw what
                        looked like an old shed roof in one photo & in the next photo, was
                        that part of a sm plane or what? ...tim
                        >
                        > Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                        > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        >
                        > > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                        > of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                        > camping?
                        > >
                        >
                        > Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                        > a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                        > authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                        > book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                        > notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                        > campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                        > behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                        > large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                        > had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                        > before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                        > cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                        > almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                        > and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                        > of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                        > country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                        > in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                        > much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                        > over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                        > thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.
                        >
                        > If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                        > posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                        > they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992
                        >
                        > These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                        > http://tinyurl.com/t425g
                        >
                        > Dave
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Cara Lin Bridgman
                        I ve always had both on the same computer. In fact, FireFox has an IE tab that works only if you have IE installed. Is it FireFox 2 you re having trouble
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                          I've always had both on the same computer. In fact, FireFox has an IE
                          tab that works only if you have IE installed.

                          Is it FireFox 2 you're having trouble with? A lot of people are.

                          CL

                          tim garner wrote:
                          > man, i wish i could read your descriptions dave. i recently swiched
                          > back to IE because i was having so much trouble w/ firefox. i don`t
                          > guess you can have both on the same computer?
                        • tim garner
                          i went back & found that if i put my curser (arrow) on a thumbnail, it would show your description. ...tim Dave Womble wrote: Tim, it
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                            i went back & found that if i put my curser (arrow) on a thumbnail, it would show your description. ...tim

                            Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote: Tim, it is not my web site. On IE, the descriptions seperate from the
                            small photos when you scroll down the page to see the enlarged photo.
                            It doesn' do that on FireFox or Netscape. You can read the
                            description in IE if you stay at the top of the page.

                            Dave
                            .

                            don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                            ---------------------------------
                            Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • tim garner
                            i think it was the new version of firefox. i belive it was doing fine untill they up-graded it i came in from a backpacking trip a couple weekends ago &
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                              i think it was the new version of firefox. i belive it was doing fine untill they "up-graded" it<g>
                              i came in from a backpacking trip a couple weekends ago & it was swiched back to internet explorer. i thought at first that my nephew had done it, but mabey not?
                              IE seems to be working fine now. i just lost all my bookmarks. ...tim

                              Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                              I've always had both on the same computer. In fact, FireFox has an IE
                              tab that works only if you have IE installed.

                              Is it FireFox 2 you're having trouble with? A lot of people are.

                              CL
                              0

                              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                              ---------------------------------
                              Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Cara Lin Bridgman
                              Ouch! I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places: C: Documents and
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                                Ouch!

                                I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                                This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                                I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                                Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                                functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                literally (more ouch!)

                                CL

                                tim garner wrote:
                                > IE seems to be working fine now. i just lost all my bookmarks. ...tim
                              • tim garner
                                i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external hard drive to store photos & stuff on. gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 6, 2006
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                                  i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                                  gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim

                                  Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                                  Ouch!

                                  I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                  d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                  C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                                  This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                  include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                                  I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                  reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                                  Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                                  functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                  evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                  system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                  literally (more ouch!)

                                  CL..


                                  don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                                  ---------------------------------
                                  Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tom Blum
                                  Tim, Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way there if you run XP. You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
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                                    Tim,

                                    Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way there if you run XP.

                                    You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup software will put a backup on the external hard drive, but will be unable to detect it when you want to restore.

                                    The whole "system state" thing is a fussy little bugger.
                                    Tom


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: tim garner
                                    To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:23 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one (v1)


                                    i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                                    gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim

                                    Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                                    Ouch!

                                    I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                    d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                    C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                                    This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                    include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                                    I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                    reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                                    Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                                    functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                    evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                    system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                    literally (more ouch!)

                                    CL..

                                    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!

                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.11/575 - Release Date: 12/6/2006 12:22 PM


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Carey Parks
                                    Another option for all those who don t want to lose their hammock camping photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to go with your
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock camping
                                      photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to go with
                                      your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the two, but I
                                      know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                      allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any day in
                                      the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certian files that I
                                      might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not affiliated
                                      with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tom Blum
                                      Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:23 AM
                                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                      (v1)


                                      Tim,

                                      Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way there
                                      if you run XP.

                                      You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup software
                                      will put a backup on the external hard drive, but will be unable to detect
                                      it when you want to restore.

                                      The whole "system state" thing is a fussy little bugger.
                                      Tom

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: tim garner
                                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:23 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                      (v1)

                                      i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an external
                                      hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                                      gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim

                                      Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                                      Ouch!

                                      I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                      d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                      C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla

                                      This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                      include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.

                                      I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                      reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.

                                      Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two ways: 1)
                                      functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                      evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                      system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                      literally (more ouch!)

                                      CL..

                                      don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!

                                      ---------------------------------
                                      Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      ----------------------------------------------------------

                                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.11/575 - Release Date: 12/6/2006
                                      12:22 PM

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • mrbyer
                                      And yet another option is to use cd-roms for each folder and burn a disk every once in a while and save the cd-roms in an organized fashion. ... camping ...
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        And yet another option is to use cd-roms for each "folder" and burn a
                                        disk every once in a while and save the cd-roms in an organized fashion.

                                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Carey Parks" <cjp129@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock
                                        camping
                                        > photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to
                                        go with
                                        > your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the
                                        two, but I
                                        > know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                        > allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any
                                        day in
                                        > the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certian files
                                        that I
                                        > might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not
                                        affiliated
                                        > with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tom Blum
                                        > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:23 AM
                                        > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                        > (v1)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Tim,
                                        >
                                        > Be aware that having an external hard drive only gets you half way
                                        there
                                        > if you run XP.
                                        >
                                        > You need Ghost to copy useable backup. The standard system backup
                                        software
                                        > will put a backup on the external hard drive, but will be unable to
                                        detect
                                        > it when you want to restore.
                                        >
                                        > The whole "system state" thing is a fussy little bugger.
                                        > Tom
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: tim garner
                                        > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:23 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: slowhike`s down hammock version one
                                        > (v1)
                                        >
                                        > i`m just a beginer w/ computers, but i belive i do need to get an
                                        external
                                        > hard drive to store photos & stuff on.
                                        > gotta be able to keep up w/ the latest hammock gear. ...tim
                                        >
                                        > Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...> wrote:
                                        > Ouch!
                                        >
                                        > I backup of everything often enough that I keep a backup folder on my
                                        > d-drive with shortcuts to all the pertinent places:
                                        > C:\Documents and Settings\CL\Application Data\Mozilla
                                        >
                                        > This includes programs like Thunderbird and Mailwasher. It can also
                                        > include my personal dictionary in MS word and installed system icons.
                                        >
                                        > I particularly backup these things before running ghost.exe or
                                        > reinstalling things. I did this before installing the new Firefox 2.
                                        >
                                        > Of course all this computer chat is related to hammocks in two
                                        ways: 1)
                                        > functional computers are necessary to keep abreast of the rapidly
                                        > evolving hammock technology and 2) always have backup or do routine
                                        > system checks because something somehow will let you down, often
                                        > literally (more ouch!)
                                        >
                                        > CL..
                                        >
                                        > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
                                        > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                        > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.11/575 - Release Date:
                                        12/6/2006
                                        > 12:22 PM
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • tim garner
                                        you guys are talkin greek to me ... but i do appreciate it. what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together w/ a friend who does know computers
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          you guys are talkin greek to me<G>... but i do appreciate it.
                                          what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together w/ a friend who does know computers to see what we can come up w/. we have talked about this before, just haven`t got anything set up on my computer yet.
                                          i hate to ask another non-hammock question (i`ve never seen ed mad, but i don`t really want to<g>), but my subscription w/ norton antivirus runs out today. i`m wondering what are the opinions on norton, one of the other paid services, or one of the free anti virus services?
                                          you can email me direct at slowhike@...
                                          after all... my computer is more about hammocking than anything else<G>. ...tim

                                          Carey Parks <cjp129@...> wrote:
                                          Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock camping
                                          photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to go with
                                          your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the two, but I
                                          know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                          allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any day in
                                          the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certain files that I
                                          might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not affiliated
                                          with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.
                                          .


                                          don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                                          ---------------------------------
                                          Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • mrbyer
                                          AVG by grisoft is awesome. Best of all it is free. Here is a link to Cnet s download website which has reviews and more:
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            AVG by grisoft is awesome. Best of all it is free.

                                            Here is a link to Cnet's download website which has reviews and more:

                                            http://www.download.com/AVG-Anti-Virus-Free-Edition/3000-2239_4-10596553.html?tag=lst-0-1


                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > you guys are talkin greek to me<G>... but i do appreciate it.
                                            > what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together
                                            w/ a friend who does know computers to see what we can come up w/. we
                                            have talked about this before, just haven`t got anything set up on my
                                            computer yet.
                                            > i hate to ask another non-hammock question (i`ve never seen ed
                                            mad, but i don`t really want to<g>), but my subscription w/ norton
                                            antivirus runs out today. i`m wondering what are the opinions on
                                            norton, one of the other paid services, or one of the free anti virus
                                            services?
                                            > you can email me direct at slowhike@...
                                            > after all... my computer is more about hammocking than anything
                                            else<G>. ...tim
                                            >
                                            > Carey Parks <cjp129@...> wrote:
                                            > Another option for all those who don't want to lose their hammock
                                            camping
                                            > photos and e-mails is the Retrospect backup and restore software to
                                            go with
                                            > your external drive. I'm not a Ghost user so I can't compare the
                                            two, but I
                                            > know Retrospect 7 is automatically backing up my computer every day and
                                            > allows me to restore to a new hard drive easily. I can specify any
                                            day in
                                            > the last 30 days to restore to. Or I can just go get certain files
                                            that I
                                            > might have cause harm to. Just be sure it's 7 and not 5. I'm not
                                            affiliated
                                            > with Retrospect, just a happy user. I like automatic.
                                            > .
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • Scott
                                            Norton is one of the best. If you download google pack, which is free, you also get a free copy of Norton. It is not an eval copy either, it is fully
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Norton is one of the best. If you download google pack, which is free, you
                                              also get a free copy of Norton. It is not an eval copy either, it is fully
                                              functional.

                                              http://pack.google.com/intl/en/pack_installer_required.html?hl=en&gl=us

                                              --
                                              Scott
                                              www.HikeHaven.com
                                              "Minds are like parachutes, they only function when they are open."
                                              James Dewar Scottish physicist 1842 –1923

                                              On Thursday 07 December 2006 16:15, tim garner wrote:
                                              > you guys are talkin greek to me<G>... but i do appreciate it.
                                              > what i`m going to do is save these suggestions & get together w/ a
                                              > friend who does know computers to see what we can come
                                              uphttp://pack.google.com/intl/en/pack_installer_required.html?hl=en&gl=us w/.
                                              we have
                                              > talked about this before, just haven`t got anything set up on my computer
                                              > yet. i hate to ask another non-hammock question (i`ve never seen ed mad,
                                              > but i don`t really want to<g>), but my subscription w/ norton antivirus
                                              > runs out today. i`m wondering what are the opinions on norton, one of the
                                              > other paid services, or one of the free anti virus services? you can email
                                              > me direct at slowhike@...
                                              > after all... my computer is more about hammocking than anything else<G>.
                                              > ...tim
                                              >
                                            • Robert Woods
                                              Dave, I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges during the day and
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Dave,

                                                I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges during the day and walked until almost dark before we stopped. We stopped short of our destination but we did not know how close we where.

                                                The next morning we got up and broke camp. About 200 yards down the trail we came to the campsite we were too tired to reach the night before. Sitting there was John Ray eating breakfast. We talked for about 10 minutes. He was doing research on a trail guide for the Foothills trail. He informed us about his trail guide to the Bartram trail in Georgia.

                                                I still look forward to reading John's book as the Georgia section of the Bartram trail will be my early spring hike in 2008.

                                                Bobby

                                                Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >

                                                > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                                                of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                                                camping<g>?
                                                >

                                                Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                                                a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                                                authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                                                book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                                                notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                                                campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                                                behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                                                large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                                                had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                                                before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                                                cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered trees...
                                                almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that area
                                                and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was kind
                                                of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                                                country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt motorcyclist
                                                in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                                                much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make it
                                                over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                                                thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.

                                                If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                                                posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                                                they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992

                                                These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                                                http://tinyurl.com/t425g

                                                Dave






                                                ---------------------------------
                                                Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Dave Womble
                                                Bobby, John writes excellent guide books. The Georgia section of the Bartram Trail has some great campsites along the Chatooga River, some neat small
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Dec 8, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Bobby,

                                                  John writes excellent guide books.

                                                  The Georgia section of the Bartram Trail has some great campsites
                                                  along the Chatooga River, some neat small waterfalls and the viewing
                                                  tower on Raburn Bald. A couple of times I have been on Raburn Bald
                                                  when there was a recent hatch of small, troublesome, flying insects.
                                                  That is a bummer when that happens as you don't want to hang around
                                                  and take in the view. Most of the times I have been there, you take
                                                  a nap or have a lunch break. The section between Warwoman Dell and
                                                  the Chatooga River has the most impressive spider webs I have run
                                                  into. They are so strong they almost stop you in your tracks when
                                                  you run into them. They are impressive and I think you will remember
                                                  them if you encounter them. I enchanged posts with a fellow from
                                                  Florida, I believe, on a Georgia hiking site I frequent who had
                                                  turned the Georgia Bartram Trail into a loop hike by adding about an
                                                  8 mile roadwalk along the forest service roads to connect the two
                                                  trailheads. I think he may have shaved a few miles off by exiting
                                                  Raburn Bald to the east via the Three Forks Trail(?) as well. Hope
                                                  you enjoy the hike. If you are up to it, there is a great vista on a
                                                  step side trail up to Pinnacle Peak, or some name like that, seems
                                                  like it is less than a mile off the trail. I think it is about 4
                                                  miles north of Warwoman Dell. There are some great sunset views, a
                                                  spot for one tent and several hammocks up there.

                                                  Dave


                                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woods <rlwoods61@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Dave,
                                                  >
                                                  > I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills
                                                  Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges
                                                  during the day and walked until almost dark before we stopped. We
                                                  stopped short of our destination but we did not know how close we
                                                  where.
                                                  >
                                                  > The next morning we got up and broke camp. About 200 yards down
                                                  the trail we came to the campsite we were too tired to reach the
                                                  night before. Sitting there was John Ray eating breakfast. We
                                                  talked for about 10 minutes. He was doing research on a trail guide
                                                  for the Foothills trail. He informed us about his trail guide to the
                                                  Bartram trail in Georgia.
                                                  >
                                                  > I still look forward to reading John's book as the Georgia
                                                  section of the Bartram trail will be my early spring hike in 2008.
                                                  >
                                                  > Bobby
                                                  >
                                                  > Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                                                  <slowhike@>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                                                  > of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                                                  > camping<g>?
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                                                  > a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                                                  > authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                                                  > book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                                                  > notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                                                  > campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                                                  > behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                                                  > large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                                                  > had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                                                  > before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                                                  > cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered
                                                  trees...
                                                  > almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that
                                                  area
                                                  > and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was
                                                  kind
                                                  > of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                                                  > country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt
                                                  motorcyclist
                                                  > in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                                                  > much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make
                                                  it
                                                  > over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                                                  > thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.
                                                  >
                                                  > If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                                                  > posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                                                  > they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992
                                                  >
                                                  > These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                                                  > http://tinyurl.com/t425g
                                                  >
                                                  > Dave
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                  > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                • Robert Woods
                                                  Dave, Thanks for the info. I will save it and review when we get ready to hke that section. Bobby Dave Womble wrote: Bobby, John writes
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Dec 8, 2006
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Dave,

                                                    Thanks for the info. I will save it and review when we get ready to hke that section.

                                                    Bobby


                                                    Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                                    Bobby,

                                                    John writes excellent guide books.

                                                    The Georgia section of the Bartram Trail has some great campsites
                                                    along the Chatooga River, some neat small waterfalls and the viewing
                                                    tower on Raburn Bald. A couple of times I have been on Raburn Bald
                                                    when there was a recent hatch of small, troublesome, flying insects.
                                                    That is a bummer when that happens as you don't want to hang around
                                                    and take in the view. Most of the times I have been there, you take
                                                    a nap or have a lunch break. The section between Warwoman Dell and
                                                    the Chatooga River has the most impressive spider webs I have run
                                                    into. They are so strong they almost stop you in your tracks when
                                                    you run into them. They are impressive and I think you will remember
                                                    them if you encounter them. I enchanged posts with a fellow from
                                                    Florida, I believe, on a Georgia hiking site I frequent who had
                                                    turned the Georgia Bartram Trail into a loop hike by adding about an
                                                    8 mile roadwalk along the forest service roads to connect the two
                                                    trailheads. I think he may have shaved a few miles off by exiting
                                                    Raburn Bald to the east via the Three Forks Trail(?) as well. Hope
                                                    you enjoy the hike. If you are up to it, there is a great vista on a
                                                    step side trail up to Pinnacle Peak, or some name like that, seems
                                                    like it is less than a mile off the trail. I think it is about 4
                                                    miles north of Warwoman Dell. There are some great sunset views, a
                                                    spot for one tent and several hammocks up there.

                                                    Dave

                                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woods <rlwoods61@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Dave,
                                                    >
                                                    > I first met John Ray When I was through hiking the Foothills
                                                    Trail back in 2005. My hiking partner and I had hike 3 of the gorges
                                                    during the day and walked until almost dark before we stopped. We
                                                    stopped short of our destination but we did not know how close we
                                                    where.
                                                    >
                                                    > The next morning we got up and broke camp. About 200 yards down
                                                    the trail we came to the campsite we were too tired to reach the
                                                    night before. Sitting there was John Ray eating breakfast. We
                                                    talked for about 10 minutes. He was doing research on a trail guide
                                                    for the Foothills trail. He informed us about his trail guide to the
                                                    Bartram trail in Georgia.
                                                    >
                                                    > I still look forward to reading John's book as the Georgia
                                                    section of the Bartram trail will be my early spring hike in 2008.
                                                    >
                                                    > Bobby
                                                    >
                                                    > Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                                                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                                                    <slowhike@>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > PS... you mentioned hiking near murphy where eric rudoff did some
                                                    > of his camping. you recon he could teach us something about stelth
                                                    > camping<g>?
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > Funny you should mention that Tim. I tagged along on that trip with
                                                    > a buddy of mine with the American Hiking Society and one of the
                                                    > authors of the guidebook for that trail. The author of the guide
                                                    > book, John Ray, lead the hike using his guidebook and taking a few
                                                    > notes along the way. On our last night out we used a stealth
                                                    > campsite that someone that lives in that area showed him. It was
                                                    > behind a 50 foot wall of rhododendron that he located by a certain
                                                    > large rock in the middle of the trail, the first 15 feet of it you
                                                    > had to crawl on your hands and knees through a rhododendron tunnel
                                                    > before you could stand up and walk through the rest. After you
                                                    > cleared the rhododendron it was a grassy area with scattered
                                                    trees...
                                                    > almost a bald. I saw a few old rusted cans, a fire ring it that
                                                    area
                                                    > and an old glass Pepsi bottle with a metal screw-on cap. It was
                                                    kind
                                                    > of neat, but I don't know if Eric used it. That is some rugged
                                                    > country and trails. We only saw one hunter and one dirt
                                                    motorcyclist
                                                    > in our three days on the trail. The Fires Creek Rim Trail pretty
                                                    > much follows the boundary of a bear sanctuary, where if they make
                                                    it
                                                    > over the ridge and into the basin they are safe. The hunter said he
                                                    > thought about 9 bears had been taken so far this year.
                                                    >
                                                    > If you are interested in some of my photos from the trip, they are
                                                    > posted here, but the descriptive text doesn't work right using IE,
                                                    > they do with FireFox: http://tinyurl.com/yy2992
                                                    >
                                                    > These are the ones from the Linville Gorge trip with Ed and Steve:
                                                    > http://tinyurl.com/t425g
                                                    >
                                                    > Dave
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ---------------------------------
                                                    > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >






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