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AT Section Hike

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  • Rick
    I am just back from a 67 mile section hike, Hot Springs to Erwin. Main lesson learned is that a new 50 year old should not hike 22 miles in one day... hurts
    Message 1 of 25 , May 27 7:24 AM
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      I am just back from a 67 mile section hike, Hot Springs to Erwin.

      Main lesson learned is that a new 50 year old should not hike 22
      miles in one day... hurts the knees too bad.

      A few other lessons learned:
      - Trail is beautiful and well maintained
      - up or down a thousand feet at a time is not very unusual
      - one seldom runs into people on the trail, but frequently sees them
      at shelters
      - 3000 cal a day seems like enough for my metabolism with a 20 pound
      pack
      - cell phones work from many mountain tops. They encourage one to
      keep walking even though the knees are hurting (as long as an
      understanding and supportive spouse is on the other end)
      - If conversations are kept to under 2 minutes, a cell phone battery
      lasts well over a week.
      - Umbrellas are really great in the rain forest
      - Hammocks rock! 5x10 foot tarp is enough.
      - A modification is necessary to keep rain from running down the
      support straps for a hammock.
      - everyone is eagar to see one's hammock
      - some people have bought hammocks but know very little about how to
      use them...

      Rick
    • robi dawson
      Hi Rick ... could you explain, having not actually used a hammock yet, but will do so soon, i d like to know what it is ppl do wrong, then i can avoid making
      Message 2 of 25 , May 27 7:36 AM
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        Hi Rick

        - some people have bought hammocks but know very little about how to
        use them... 

        could you explain, having not actually used a hammock yet, but will do so soon, i'd like to know what it  is ppl do wrong, then i can avoid making those mistakes.

        robi

      • Ed Speer
        Welcome back Rick, sounds like a good hike. We did have a lot of rain lately--did you have any problems? ...Ed ... From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@yahoo.com]
        Message 3 of 25 , May 27 7:38 AM
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          Message
          Welcome back Rick, sounds like a good hike. We did have a lot of rain lately--did you have any problems?  ...Ed
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:24 AM
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Hammock Camping AT Section Hike

          I am just back from a 67 mile section hike, Hot Springs to Erwin.

          Main lesson learned is that a new 50 year old should not hike 22
          miles in one day...  hurts the knees too bad. 

          A few other lessons learned: 
          - Trail is beautiful and well maintained
          - up or down a thousand feet at a time is not very unusual
          - one seldom runs into people on the trail, but frequently sees them
          at shelters
          - 3000 cal a day seems like enough for my metabolism with a 20 pound
          pack
          - cell phones work from many mountain tops.  They encourage one to
          keep walking even though the knees are hurting (as long as an
          understanding and supportive spouse is on the other end)
          - If conversations are kept to under 2 minutes, a cell phone battery
          lasts well over a week.
          - Umbrellas are really great in the rain forest
          - Hammocks rock!  5x10 foot tarp is enough.
          - A modification is necessary to keep rain from running down the
          support straps for a hammock.
          - everyone is eagar to see one's hammock
          - some people have bought hammocks but know very little about how to
          use them... 

          Rick



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        • Rick
          No problems from the rain. I have begun a page to describe the hike. You can see the pictures already and some narrative at:
          Message 4 of 25 , May 27 7:39 AM
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            No problems from the rain.

            I have begun a page to describe the hike. You can see the pictures
            already and some narrative at:

            http://www.flyfisher-kayaks.com/ultralite/AT.htm

            Over the next few days I will get back to finish the descriptions.

            Rick

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
            > Welcome back Rick, sounds like a good hike. We did have a lot of
            rain
            > lately--did you have any problems? ...Ed
            >
            >
          • Tony Burnett
            ... I see that you used trekking poles as well. How did you hold the umbrella? Or did you have it strapped to your pack? ... I assume you had it tied to its
            Message 5 of 25 , May 27 12:14 PM
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              --- Rick <geoflyfisher@...> wrote:
              > - Umbrellas are really great in the rain forest

              I see that you used trekking poles as well. How did you hold the
              umbrella? Or did you have it strapped to your pack?

              > - Hammocks rock! 5x10 foot tarp is enough.

              I assume you had it tied to its own "mainline"? If not, did you have
              issues with tarp sag once you got into your hammock?

              > - A modification is necessary to keep rain from running down the
              > support straps for a hammock.

              Such as?

              So, what did you take with you (gear list) to get down to 20#? If
              you have it posted on your site, I couldn't find it.

              What sort of insulation did you take with you (I know you've made
              several types) to keep your back warm? Did you have to wear your
              Polartec 100's in bed at all on this trip?

              While not quite 50, I, too, got my ass kicked by a 20 mile day (I ran
              out of gas at the 15th mile). I, too, thought my knees were going to
              be the end of me.

              Went to the doctor when I got home. He (also the local HS football
              team doctor, so I know he has quite a bit of knee expertise) seems to
              think I have either arthritis or some type of joint disorder. As
              none of the soft tissue tests (bending my leg every which way) he ran
              proved fruitful.

              Told me to get some "quality" (seems as though there is plenty of
              cheap-o stuff on the market) Glucosamine and take 3 pills/day for 30
              days before my next trip. I certainly hope it works, otherwise I'd
              have to make sure all of trips were uphill only.<g>



              =====
              Tony

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            • Rick
              ... When I used the umbrella I used only one trecking pole... Actually, I was using an aluminum hiking stick and a wood stick. I folded the aluminum stick up
              Message 6 of 25 , May 27 1:19 PM
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                Hi Tony, answers in line:

                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Tony Burnett
                <tburnettcis@y...> wrote:
                > --- Rick <geoflyfisher@y...> wrote:
                > > - Umbrellas are really great in the rain forest
                >
                > I see that you used trekking poles as well. How did you hold the
                > umbrella? Or did you have it strapped to your pack?

                When I used the umbrella I used only one trecking pole... Actually,
                I was using an aluminum hiking stick and a wood stick. I folded the
                aluminum stick up and used the wood stick with the umbrella.

                Since I returned I bought some carbon fiber trecking poles which I
                like even better.
                >
                > > - Hammocks rock! 5x10 foot tarp is enough.
                >
                > I assume you had it tied to its own "mainline"? If not, did you
                have
                > issues with tarp sag once you got into your hammock?

                The tarp is independent of and tied about 4 inches above the
                hammock.
                >
                > > - A modification is necessary to keep rain from running down the
                > > support straps for a hammock.
                >
                > Such as?

                See following post about knot modification.. Picture coming soon.
                >
                > So, what did you take with you (gear list) to get down to 20#? If
                > you have it posted on your site, I couldn't find it.

                Well...

                Let's see if this posts ok...

                Ultralite Backpacking Weights As of May 03 6 day trip

                Gms Oz Pounds
                GoLite Pack and liner 430 15.18763797 0.947136564
                Quilt with sack 862 30.44591611 1.898678414
                sleeping pad (blue) 216 7.629139073 0.475770925
                Tarp 260 9.183222958 0.572687225
                Tyvek Sitting square 20 0.706401766 0.044052863
                Umbrella 293 10.34878587 0.645374449
                Hammock with bug net 730 25.78366446 1.607929515
                "Tent pegs, 4 aluminum" 70 2.472406181 0.154185022
                Iodine bottle 36 1.271523179 0.079295154
                Head lamp 76 2.684326711 0.167400881
                walking stick 250 8.830022075 0.550660793
                Toilet Paper, hand cleaner 156 5.509933775 0.343612335
                Subtotal 1 7.486784141

                Clothing to be carried

                Fleece Shirt 541 19.10816777 1.191629956
                baklava and gloves 73 2.578366446 0.160792952
                Frogg Toggs 350 12.36203091 0.77092511
                Sealskinz (rain socks) 151 5.333333333 0.332599119
                socks 46 1.624724062 0.101321586
                Long Underwear bottoms 150 5.298013245 0.330396476
                Clothing subtotal 1.696035242

                Cooking
                Kettle 183 6.463576159 0.4030837
                Chicken Bullion 76 2.684326711 0.167400881
                Coffee 45 1.589403974 0.099118943
                oil 63 2.225165563 0.13876652
                Ursack with liner 126 4.450331126 0.27753304
                "Cup, Cozy, bowl" 139 4.909492274 0.306167401
                "lighter, matches" 91 3.214128035 0.200440529
                spoon 7 0.247240618 0.015418502
                towel 47 1.66004415 0.103524229
                Ditty Bag 156 5.509933775 0.343612335
                Cooking Subtotal 2.055066079

                Food and Water
                Water bottle 636 22.46357616 1.400881057
                food 4000 141.2803532 8.810572687
                Food and Water Subtotal 10.21145374

                Clothing to be worn
                Wraptor Sandals 1030 36.37969095 2.268722467
                Yellow shorts 156 5.509933775 0.343612335
                Coolmax shirt 205 7.240618102 0.45154185
                handkerchief 23 0.812362031 0.050660793
                Worn clothing subtotal 3.114537445

                Grand total 24.56387665
                Pack Total 21.44933921
                Pack total minus food and water 11.23788546

                BTW this was about 3000 cal per day.

                Sorry about the decimal precision... of course the precision is no
                where near this, but it is easier to leave it there than to strip it
                all out.

                At any rate, I carried a pack base weight with all but hot weather
                clothing in the pack of 11 and a quarter pounds. (including aluminum
                walking stick) 10 and a quarter pounds of water and food lasted me 6
                days easily. (water renewed several times a day of course)

                If you use the naked weight method, then it was just below 25 pounds
                total.


                >
                > What sort of insulation did you take with you (I know you've made
                > several types) to keep your back warm? Did you have to wear your
                > Polartec 100's in bed at all on this trip?

                I wore my polartec sweater half the nights - whenever it was below 45
                degrees. I wore the frogg togg pants one night when it was blowing
                and I was cold. I never broke out the baclava, the gloves, or the
                long underwear pants.

                Insulation was the blue target pad between two layers of the
                hammock. That and my homemade quilt on top.
                >


                Rick
              • Ed Speer
                Told me to get some quality (seems as though there is plenty of cheap-o stuff on the market) Glucosamine and take 3 pills/day for 30 days before my next
                Message 7 of 25 , May 27 2:03 PM
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                  Message
                   
                   
                  Told me to get some "quality" (seems as though there is plenty of
                  cheap-o stuff on the market) Glucosamine and take 3 pills/day for 30
                  days before my next trip.  I certainly hope it works, otherwise I'd
                  have to make sure all of trips were uphill only.
                   
                   
                  Tony, do what your doctor says!  I could never have hiked 5,000 miles on the AT without it.  ALL the long distance hikers I know use the stuff. Wish I had started using glucosamine as a kid--it would probably have stopped all knee degeneration. I'm 56 now and been using it for 4 years--has taken 20 years off my knees.  I easily hold my own on the trail now, even in the mountains!  On the AT, I often passed serious hikers a third of my age--I was one of the last to start southbound in 2001 and finished as one of the first.  A light pack is a must, but the glucosamine is too--took double doses every day on the trail. Did I mention that I like the stuff?.....Ed
                • Tony Burnett
                  Thanks for the endorsement. So do you currently take it year round, or just before hiking trips? How much (mg) do you take per day when not hiking? What brand
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 28 8:46 AM
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                    Thanks for the endorsement.

                    So do you currently take it year round, or just before hiking trips?
                    How much (mg) do you take per day when not hiking? What brand do you
                    use?


                    --- Ed Speer <info@...> wrote:
                    > Tony, do what your doctor says! I could never have hiked 5,000
                    > miles on
                    > the AT without it. ALL the long distance hikers I know use the
                    > stuff.
                    > Wish I had started using glucosamine as a kid--it would probably
                    > have
                    > stopped all knee degeneration. I'm 56 now and been using it for 4
                    > years--has taken 20 years off my knees. I easily hold my own on
                    > the
                    > trail now, even in the mountains! On the AT, I often passed
                    > serious
                    > hikers a third of my age--I was one of the last to start southbound
                    > in
                    > 2001 and finished as one of the first. A light pack is a must, but
                    > the
                    > glucosamine is too--took double doses every day on the trail. Did I
                    > mention that I like the stuff?.....Ed
                    >


                    =====
                    Tony

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                  • Ed Speer
                    Tony, I take 1,000mg glucosamine twice a day every day. General advice is to take 3,000mg/d for first month, then drop back to a smaller maintance dosage.
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 28 10:31 AM
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                      Message
                      Tony, I take 1,000mg glucosamine twice a day every day.   General advice is to take 3,000mg/d for first month, then drop back to a smaller maintance dosage.  On a long trail, i'll take up to 6,000mg/d, starting a month before the hike. It's not like a pain killer that takes effect immediately--instead, it works very slowly to rehydrate joint cartledge.  Most folks won't notice any improvement for weeks or months after starting to take it--some folks stop taking it because they don't see quick improvement--it's very subtle over a long time. It is also non toxic, so you can't overdose. Since rehydration is involved, be sure to drink lots of water every day of your life--tea, soda, coffee, etc don't count as water. How much water?  A gallon/d at home is not too much; of course, more when on the trail.  Yes this is a LOT of water! I no longer drink anything but water--my knees thank me every day! By the way, lower back pain is also commonly due to dehydration--mine has gone away since I started drinking lots of water and taking glucosamine!
                       
                      I use Spring Valley brand from Wal-Mart--just glucosamine, not chrondrotin. I've read in a medical book that chrondrotin works wonders if taken by injection, but is not adsorbed into the body when taken orally. The commonly combined glucosamine-chrondrotin supplements that are heavily advertised are way too expensive for me, so I take only glucosamine.  Happy hiking...Ed
                       
                       
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Tony Burnett [mailto:tburnettcis@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:47 AM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: Hammock Camping AT Section Hike

                      Thanks for the endorsement.

                      So do you currently take it year round, or just before hiking trips?
                      How much (mg) do you take per day when not hiking?  What brand do you
                      use?


                      --- Ed Speer <info@...> wrote:
                      > Tony, do what your doctor says!  I could never have hiked 5,000
                      > miles on
                      > the AT without it.  ALL the long distance hikers I know use the
                      > stuff.
                      > Wish I had started using glucosamine as a kid--it would probably
                      > have
                      > stopped all knee degeneration. I'm 56 now and been using it for 4
                      > years--has taken 20 years off my knees.  I easily hold my own on
                      > the
                      > trail now, even in the mountains!  On the AT, I often passed
                      > serious
                      > hikers a third of my age--I was one of the last to start southbound
                      > in
                      > 2001 and finished as one of the first.  A light pack is a must, but
                      > the
                      > glucosamine is too--took double doses every day on the trail. Did I
                      > mention that I like the stuff?.....Ed
                      >


                      =====
                      Tony

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                    • Shane
                      ... Rick covered this really well, but I wanted to add one thing: People tend to hang their hammocks too low. This causes lots of problems getting in and out.
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 28 1:26 PM
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                        > could you explain, having not actually used a
                        > hammock yet, but will do so soon, i'd like to know
                        > what it is ppl do wrong, then i can avoid making
                        > those mistakes.

                        Rick covered this really well, but I wanted to add one thing:

                        People tend to hang their hammocks too low. This causes lots of problems
                        getting in and out. If you are having trouble, it's too low.

                        Shane
                      • amy
                        ... I have anecdotal evidence that glucosamine works better in combination with other substances. Both my old horses are on a supplement which contains
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 28 4:17 PM
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                          On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 01:31 PM, Ed Speer wrote:

                          > Tony, I take 1,000mg glucosamine twice a day every day.   General
                          > advice is to take 3,000mg/d for first month, then drop back to a
                          > smaller maintance dosage.  On a long trail, i'll take up to 6,000mg/d,
                          > starting a month before the hike. It's not like a pain killer that
                          > takes effect immediately--instead, it works very slowly to
                          > rehydrate joint cartledge.  Most folks won't notice any improvement
                          > for weeks or months after starting to take it--some folks stop taking
                          > it because they don't see quick improvement--it's very subtle over a
                          > long time. It is also non toxic, so you can't overdose. Since
                          > rehydration is involved, be sure to drink lots of water every day of
                          > your life--tea, soda, coffee, etc don't count as water. How much
                          > water?  A gallon/d at home is not too much; of course, more when on
                          > the trail.  Yes this is a LOT of water! I no longer drink anything but
                          > water--my knees thank me every day! By the way, lower back pain is
                          > also commonly due to dehydration--mine has gone away since I started
                          > drinking lots of water and taking glucosamine!
                          >  
                          > I use Spring Valley brand from Wal-Mart--just glucosamine, not
                          > chrondrotin. I've read in a medical book that chrondrotin works
                          > wonders if taken by injection, but is not adsorbed into the body when
                          > taken orally. The commonly combined glucosamine-chrondrotin
                          > supplements that are heavily advertised are way too expensive for me,
                          > so I take only glucosamine.  Happy hiking...Ed
                          >

                          I have anecdotal evidence that glucosamine works better in combination
                          with
                          other substances. Both my old horses are on a supplement which contains
                          glucosamine, msm, chondroitin, and vitamin c. I ran out and used a
                          glucosamine
                          only supplement for a while. The combo definitely worked better, in
                          that
                          while on just glucosamine they both were obviously more limpy within
                          two weeks.

                          Not that horse physiology necessarily reacts like human physiology, of
                          course.

                          -amy
                        • Ed Speer
                          Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or chrondroitin for joints--I d be taking it except it s very, very expensive...Ed
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 28 4:50 PM
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                            Message
                            Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or chrondroitin for joints--I'd be taking it except it's very, very expensive...Ed
                             
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: amy [mailto:askowronek@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:18 PM
                            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: Hammock Camping AT Section Hike


                            On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 01:31 PM, Ed Speer wrote:

                            Tony, I take 1,000mg glucosamine twice a day every day.   General advice is to take 3,000mg/d for first month, then drop back to a smaller maintance dosage.  On a long trail, i'll take up to 6,000mg/d, starting a month before the hike. It's not like a pain killer that takes effect immediately--instead, it works very slowly to rehydrate joint cartledge.  Most folks won't notice any improvement for weeks or months after starting to take it--some folks stop taking it because they don't see quick improvement--it's very subtle over a long time. It is also non toxic, so you can't overdose. Since rehydration is involved, be sure to drink lots of water every day of your life--tea, soda, coffee, etc don't count as water. How much water?  A gallon/d at home is not too much; of course, more when on the trail.  Yes this is a LOT of water! I no longer drink anything but water--my knees thank me every day! By the way, lower back pain is also commonly due to dehydration--mine has gone away since I started drinking lots of water and taking glucosamine!
                             
                            I use Spring Valley brand from Wal-Mart--just glucosamine, not chrondrotin. I've read in a medical book that chrondrotin works wonders if taken by injection, but is not adsorbed into the body when taken orally. The commonly combined glucosamine-chrondrotin supplements that are heavily advertised are way too expensive for me, so I take only glucosamine.  Happy hiking...Ed


                            I have anecdotal evidence that glucosamine works better in combination with
                            other substances. Both my old horses are on a supplement which contains
                            glucosamine, msm, chondroitin, and vitamin c. I ran out and used a glucosamine
                            only supplement for a while. The combo definitely worked better, in that
                            while on just glucosamine they both were obviously more limpy within
                            two weeks.

                            Not that horse physiology necessarily reacts like human physiology, of course.

                            -amy
                          • Tony Burnett
                            Funny you mention this. I just read that other stuff is required to help absorb Glucosamine sulfate. Of course, in was on a vendors site, so I took it
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 29 6:48 AM
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                              Funny you mention this. I just read that "other stuff" is required
                              to help absorb Glucosamine sulfate. Of course, in was on a "vendors"
                              site, so I took it with a grain of salt.

                              See Item #7 on this
                              http://www.arthritis-glucosamine.net/glucosamine/arthritis-tips/
                              page.

                              The only item I see that you mentioned that I have concerns about is
                              chondroitin. Most of what I read, and what my pharmacists told me,
                              states that this stuff just isn't absorbed well, if at all, via oral
                              meds. I think Ed mentioned this as well.


                              --- amy <askowronek@...> wrote:
                              > I have anecdotal evidence that glucosamine works better in
                              > combination
                              > with
                              > other substances. Both my old horses are on a supplement which
                              > contains
                              > glucosamine, msm, chondroitin, and vitamin c. I ran out and used a
                              >
                              > glucosamine
                              > only supplement for a while. The combo definitely worked better,
                              > in
                              > that
                              > while on just glucosamine they both were obviously more limpy
                              > within
                              > two weeks.
                              >
                              > Not that horse physiology necessarily reacts like human physiology,
                              > of
                              > course.
                              >
                              > -amy


                              =====
                              Tony

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                            • colonelcorn76
                              ... chrondroitin ... I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I take
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 29 8:35 AM
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                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                > Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or
                                chrondroitin
                                > for joints--I'd be taking it except it's very, very expensive...Ed
                                >
                                >

                                I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a
                                combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I
                                take 3 each day. The mfg is Shiff (www.shiffvitamin.com) but I buy
                                them from the local BJs Warehouse. The bottle usually has 180
                                tablets (60 day supply) but my last one was 250 tablets for the same
                                price -- $9.99 for the bottle which is pretty close to the price of
                                glucosamine alone. It works out to about 15 cents a day.
                              • Ed Speer
                                Hey, that s not as expensive as I ve seen--thanks for the lead; I ll check that out...Ed ... From: colonelcorn76 [mailto:colonelcorn76@yahoo.com] Sent:
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 29 9:51 AM
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                                  Message
                                  Hey, that's not as expensive as I've seen--thanks for the lead; I'll check that out...Ed
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: colonelcorn76 [mailto:colonelcorn76@...]
                                  Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:36 AM
                                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)

                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                  > Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or
                                  chrondroitin
                                  > for joints--I'd be taking it except it's very, very expensive...Ed



                                  I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a
                                  combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I
                                  take 3 each day. The mfg is Shiff (www.shiffvitamin.com) but I buy
                                  them from the local BJs Warehouse. The bottle usually has 180
                                  tablets (60 day supply) but my last one was 250 tablets for the same
                                  price -- $9.99 for the bottle which is pretty close to the price of
                                  glucosamine alone. It works out to about 15 cents a day.



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                                • amy
                                  ... You don t even want to know how much it costs to dose two eleven hundred pound animals with the stuff daily. :) -amy
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 29 4:34 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 11:35 AM, colonelcorn76 wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a
                                    > combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I
                                    > take 3 each day. The mfg is Shiff (www.shiffvitamin.com) but I buy
                                    > them from the local BJs Warehouse. The bottle usually has 180
                                    > tablets (60 day supply) but my last one was 250 tablets for the same
                                    > price -- $9.99 for the bottle which is pretty close to the price of
                                    > glucosamine alone. It works out to about 15 cents a day.
                                    >
                                    >

                                    You don't even want to know how much it costs to dose two eleven hundred
                                    pound animals with the stuff daily. :)

                                    -amy
                                  • Rick
                                    Well, y all got me interested in this stuff. My knee is doing better with rest and occasional vit I. I did a bit of an internet search on the subject and
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 30 5:29 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Well, y'all got me interested in this stuff. My knee is doing better
                                      with rest and occasional vit I. I did a bit of an internet search on
                                      the subject and came up with a pretty good review article.

                                      As a result I went out and bought some pills tonight and took a dose
                                      of 1500/1200 of Glucosamine and Chondritin.

                                      Article I studied is here:

                                      http://tinyurl.com/415d

                                      Rick,
                                      The country doctor,
                                      Hammock hanger,
                                      sewing maniac,
                                      limping AT hiker
                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                      > Hey, that's not as expensive as I've seen--thanks for the lead; I'll
                                      > check that out...Ed
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: colonelcorn76 [mailto:colonelcorn76@y...]
                                      > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:36 AM
                                      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                      > > Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or
                                      > chrondroitin
                                      > > for joints--I'd be taking it except it's very, very expensive...Ed
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a
                                      > combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I
                                      > take 3 each day. The mfg is Shiff (www.shiffvitamin.com) but I buy
                                      > them from the local BJs Warehouse. The bottle usually has 180
                                      > tablets (60 day supply) but my last one was 250 tablets for the
                                      same
                                      > price -- $9.99 for the bottle which is pretty close to the price of
                                      > glucosamine alone. It works out to about 15 cents a day.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                    • Ed Speer
                                      Rick, I noticed improvement in my knees after only two weeks--some people don t notice anything for 4 weeks or so. In any event, I m confident you will feel
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 30 6:10 PM
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                                        Message
                                        Rick, I noticed improvement in my knees after only two weeks--some people don't notice anything for 4 weeks or so. In any event, I'm confident you will feel better if you stick with it....Ed
                                         
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@...]
                                        Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:29 PM
                                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)

                                        Well, y'all got me interested in this stuff.  My knee is doing better
                                        with rest and occasional vit I.  I did a bit of an internet search on
                                        the subject and came up with a pretty good review article. 

                                        As a result I went out and bought some pills tonight and took a dose
                                        of 1500/1200 of Glucosamine and Chondritin.

                                        Article I studied is here:

                                        http://tinyurl.com/415d

                                        Rick,
                                        The country doctor,
                                        Hammock hanger,
                                        sewing maniac,
                                        limping AT hiker
                                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                        > Hey, that's not as expensive as I've seen--thanks for the lead; I'll
                                        > check that out...Ed

                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: colonelcorn76 [mailto:colonelcorn76@y...]
                                        > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:36 AM
                                        > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                        > > Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or
                                        > chrondroitin
                                        > > for joints--I'd be taking it except it's very, very expensive...Ed
                                        > > 
                                        > > 
                                        >
                                        > I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a
                                        > combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I
                                        > take 3 each day. The mfg is Shiff (www.shiffvitamin.com) but I buy
                                        > them from the local BJs Warehouse. The bottle usually has 180
                                        > tablets (60 day supply) but my last one was 250 tablets for the
                                        same
                                        > price -- $9.99 for the bottle which is pretty close to the price of
                                        > glucosamine alone. It works out to about 15 cents a day.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor     
                                        >
                                        > ADVERTISEMENT

                                        >
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                                        > 065843:HM/A=1595053/R=0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?
                                        YH=3
                                        > 313099&yhad=1595053> Click Here!     

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                                      • robi dawson
                                        With all this talk of glucosamine of late i was wondering what the side negative effects of it can be? Is there any known long term minuses for taking so much?
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 30 10:32 PM
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                                          With all this talk of glucosamine of late i was wondering what the side'negative effects of it can be? Is there any known long term minuses for taking so much?

                                          rob

                                          At 09:10 PM 5/30/03 -0400, you wrote:
                                          Rick, I noticed improvement in my knees after only two weeks--some people don't notice anything for 4 weeks or so. In any event, I'm confident you will feel better if you stick with it....Ed
                                           
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@...]
                                          Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:29 PM
                                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)
                                          Well, y'all got me interested in this stuff.  My knee is doing better
                                          with rest and occasional vit I.  I did a bit of an internet search on
                                          the subject and came up with a pretty good review article. 

                                          As a result I went out and bought some pills tonight and took a dose
                                          of 1500/1200 of Glucosamine and Chondritin.

                                          Article I studied is here:

                                          http://tinyurl.com/415d

                                          Rick,
                                          The country doctor,
                                          Hammock hanger,
                                          sewing maniac,
                                          limping AT hiker
                                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                          > Hey, that's not as expensive as I've seen--thanks for the lead; I'll
                                          > check that out...Ed
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: colonelcorn76 [mailto:colonelcorn76@y...]
                                          > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:36 AM
                                          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                          > > Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or
                                          > chrondroitin
                                          > > for joints--I'd be taking it except it's very, very expensive...Ed
                                          > > 
                                          > > 
                                          >
                                          > I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a
                                          > combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I
                                          > take 3 each day. The mfg is Shiff (www.shiffvitamin.com) but I buy
                                          > them from the local BJs Warehouse. The bottle usually has 180
                                          > tablets (60 day supply) but my last one was 250 tablets for the
                                          same
                                          > price -- $9.99 for the bottle which is pretty close to the price of
                                          > glucosamine alone. It works out to about 15 cents a day.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor     
                                          >
                                          > ADVERTISEMENT
                                          >
                                          <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3313099.4604523.1512248/D=egroupweb/S=17
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                                          > 065843:HM/A=1595053/R=0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?
                                          YH=3
                                          > 313099&yhad=1595053> Click Here!     
                                          > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
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                                          > pmail/S=:HM/A=1595053/rand=897849442>      
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                                        • Ed Speer
                                          No, Robi, there are no serious known side effects. The link Rick gave below mentiones some minor ones--but the medical book I have gives none...Ed
                                          Message 20 of 25 , May 31 4:41 AM
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                                            Message
                                            No, Robi, there are no serious known side effects.  The link Rick gave below mentiones some minor ones--but the medical book I have gives none...Ed
                                             
                                             
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: robi dawson [mailto:beanco@...]
                                            Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 1:33 AM
                                            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)

                                            With all this talk of glucosamine of late i was wondering what the side'negative effects of it can be? Is there any known long term minuses for taking so much?

                                            rob

                                            At 09:10 PM 5/30/03 -0400, you wrote:
                                            Rick, I noticed improvement in my knees after only two weeks--some people don't notice anything for 4 weeks or so. In any event, I'm confident you will feel better if you stick with it....Ed
                                             
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@...]
                                            Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:29 PM
                                            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)
                                            Well, y'all got me interested in this stuff.  My knee is doing better
                                            with rest and occasional vit I.  I did a bit of an internet search on
                                            the subject and came up with a pretty good review article. 

                                            As a result I went out and bought some pills tonight and took a dose
                                            of 1500/1200 of Glucosamine and Chondritin.

                                            Article I studied is here:

                                            http://tinyurl.com/415d

                                            Rick,
                                            The country doctor,
                                            Hammock hanger,
                                            sewing maniac,
                                            limping AT hiker
                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                            > Hey, that's not as expensive as I've seen--thanks for the lead; I'll
                                            > check that out...Ed
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: colonelcorn76 [mailto:colonelcorn76@y...]
                                            > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:36 AM
                                            > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: Glucosamine (was Hammock Camping AT Section Hike)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                                            > > Amy, that MSM is probably better than either glucosamine or
                                            > chrondroitin
                                            > > for joints--I'd be taking it except it's very, very expensive...Ed
                                            > > 
                                            > > 
                                            >
                                            > I take 1.5g of glucosamine and 1.5g of MSM everyday. It comes in a
                                            > combined glucosamine/MSM tablet -- 500mg of each in a tablet and I
                                            > take 3 each day. The mfg is Shiff (www.shiffvitamin.com) but I buy
                                            > them from the local BJs Warehouse. The bottle usually has 180
                                            > tablets (60 day supply) but my last one was 250 tablets for the
                                            same
                                            > price -- $9.99 for the bottle which is pretty close to the price of
                                            > glucosamine alone. It works out to about 15 cents a day.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor     
                                            >
                                            > ADVERTISEMENT
                                            >
                                            <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244522.3313099.4604523.1512248/D=egroupweb/S=17
                                            05
                                            > 065843:HM/A=1595053/R=0/*http://ashnin.com/clk/muryutaitakenattogyo?
                                            YH=3
                                            > 313099&yhad=1595053> Click Here!     
                                            > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
                                            M=244522.3313099.4604523.1512248/D=egrou
                                            > pmail/S=:HM/A=1595053/rand=897849442>      
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                                            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



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                                          • dawnhark
                                            Rick, what is Vit I? Also, FWIW, I just now started my dog on Joint Care Plus, it s glucosamine, chondroitin, Vit C, and MSM. My friend says it made her 8-yr
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 19, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Rick, what is Vit I? Also, FWIW, I just now started my dog on Joint
                                              Care Plus, it's glucosamine, chondroitin, Vit C, and MSM. My friend
                                              says it made her 8-yr old Choc Lab like she's only 4! She also warned
                                              me to get the one w/MSM, because she tried the version without it and
                                              it didn't do the trick. For Dogs--from www.drsfostersmith.com

                                              Dawn
                                            • alidisaster
                                              Is there a version for Humans? (I ve had to give up running due to arthritis) ... warned ... and
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 20, 2003
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Is there a version for Humans? (I've had to give up running due to
                                                arthritis)
                                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dawnhark" <dawnhark@y...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Rick, what is Vit I? Also, FWIW, I just now started my dog on Joint
                                                > Care Plus, it's glucosamine, chondroitin, Vit C, and MSM. My friend
                                                > says it made her 8-yr old Choc Lab like she's only 4! She also
                                                warned
                                                > me to get the one w/MSM, because she tried the version without it
                                                and
                                                > it didn't do the trick. For Dogs--from www.drsfostersmith.com
                                                >
                                                > Dawn
                                              • Risk
                                                Dawn, Vit I: TrailName for ibuprophen aka Motrin aka Advil; I take 400 mg when anything/everything is sore, usually just in the morning when hiking, but can be
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jun 20, 2003
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Dawn,

                                                  Vit I: TrailName for ibuprophen aka Motrin aka Advil; I take 400 mg
                                                  when anything/everything is sore, usually just in the morning when
                                                  hiking, but can be used 4 times a day. After a couple days on the
                                                  trail, I usually don't need it anymore.

                                                  Oh, and for Ed who was looking for an inexpensive source of
                                                  Glucosamine: Sams Club (next to Walmart most places) has plain
                                                  Glucosamine 1000 mg; 240 tabs for $9.50 At $.04 per tab and Ed's
                                                  recommended daily dose of 2000 mg (2 gm) it ends up costing $2.40 a
                                                  month.

                                                  That is the best price I have found in the last month of looking.

                                                  Rick

                                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dawnhark" <dawnhark@y...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Rick, what is Vit I? Also, FWIW, I just now started my dog on Joint
                                                  > Care Plus, it's glucosamine, chondroitin, Vit C, and MSM. My friend
                                                  > says it made her 8-yr old Choc Lab like she's only 4! She also
                                                  warned
                                                  > me to get the one w/MSM, because she tried the version without it
                                                  and
                                                  > it didn't do the trick. For Dogs--from www.drsfostersmith.com
                                                  >
                                                  > Dawn
                                                • dawnhark
                                                  ... I m sure there is, but LOL I can only afford it for my dog right now!! Dawn and the ever-lovin Jesse
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jun 21, 2003
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "alidisaster"
                                                    <alastair.dent@v...> wrote:
                                                    > Is there a version for Humans? (I've had to give up running due to
                                                    > arthritis)


                                                    I'm sure there is, but LOL I can only afford it for my dog right now!!

                                                    Dawn and the ever-lovin' Jesse


                                                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dawnhark" <dawnhark@y...>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Rick, what is Vit I? Also, FWIW, I just now started my dog on Joint
                                                    > > Care Plus, it's glucosamine, chondroitin, Vit C, and MSM. My friend
                                                    > > says it made her 8-yr old Choc Lab like she's only 4! She also
                                                    > warned
                                                    > > me to get the one w/MSM, because she tried the version without it
                                                    > and
                                                    > > it didn't do the trick. For Dogs--from www.drsfostersmith.com
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Dawn
                                                  • colonelcorn76
                                                    ... to ... Joint ... friend ... BJ s Wholesale Club (& Sam s Club) sell Glucosamine/MSM combos in 180 count bottles of 500mg tablets (500mg each of Glucosamine
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jun 22, 2003
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "alidisaster"
                                                      <alastair.dent@v...> wrote:
                                                      > Is there a version for Humans? (I've had to give up running due
                                                      to
                                                      > arthritis)
                                                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dawnhark" <dawnhark@y...>
                                                      > wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Rick, what is Vit I? Also, FWIW, I just now started my dog on
                                                      Joint
                                                      > > Care Plus, it's glucosamine, chondroitin, Vit C, and MSM. My
                                                      friend
                                                      > > says it made her 8-yr old Choc Lab like she's only 4! She also
                                                      > warned
                                                      > > me to get the one w/MSM, because she tried the version without

                                                      BJ's Wholesale Club (& Sam's Club) sell Glucosamine/MSM combos in
                                                      180 count bottles of 500mg tablets (500mg each of Glucosamine & MSM)
                                                      for 10 bucks. The one I got had a special with 240 count in the
                                                      bottle last time.

                                                      They also have Gluc/Chondroitin and Gluc/Chon/MSM but at about 3
                                                      times the price and Chondroitin oral supplements don't seem to have
                                                      the efficacy in testing as Gluc/MSM does.

                                                      Jim
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