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Re: HH on PCT report

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  • Brian Lewis
    Pan wrote: Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site for a couple of days. My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 1, 2006
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      Pan wrote:
      "Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site for a
      couple of days.

      My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
      hammocks were heavy or at least heavier than your bivi set up. The
      stock BUL and SS system you chose is heavier than some other HH and
      several other hammocks. There are posts on Whiteblaze.net that
      probably have 30-40 responses of different hammock set ups, many in
      the 3-3.5 pound range for hammocks , tarps and bottoms insulation
      adequate for 30-35 degree use.To answer you question on specific
      alternative the HH Hyperlight will shave 10 oz from the BUL
      approach, Speer models can come in lighter depending on material.
      (personally Iuse a HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL
      stakes , A JRB Nest under quilt w/Suspension system and it come to
      exactly 48 os.) Others are lighter, Carol Crooker on BPL hammocked
      in the 5 pound challege last year with her entire base pack under 5
      pounds.

      Looking over your post above, it appears that you are carrying 12 oz
      or so of alternative gear, blue pad, space blanket, tyvek,funnels,
      and also a line level...this makes your set up appear almost a pound
      heavier."

      =============================================================

      Thanks, Pan. Ditto about delayed response; my wife and I just
      finished hiking around Mt. Rainier on the Wonderland Trail (about 100
      miles of all up-and-down). Sharing a tent, as my wife hasn't
      converted, so I was back to dirt camping!

      When I responded to you last time, I hadn't realized you were a gear
      maker (JacksRBetter); I really appreciate folks like you and Ed and
      others that respond to us gear *users*!

      One thing that struck me in your suggested 2.5 to 3 pound range was
      just simple math: my Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker is listed on the
      Hennessy site as 1 pound 15 ounces. Your JRB Nest is listed at 20
      ounces, plus another ounce for the stuff sack and I think another
      ounce for the suspension system (? based on backpackgeartest review).
      Those items then alone sum to 53 ounces --- 3.3 pounds ... that's
      without including stakes to hold the sides out, or longer straps
      (necessary in the NW).

      I could have saved 7 oz (or maybe 10 depending on which HH specs you
      read ...) by going with the hyperlite instead of ultralight; the
      hyperlight is very new, however, and I generally prefer to let other
      pioneers get the arrows in their backs <g>. If I were willing to pay
      more for a hammock that I would guess would wear out faster, I could
      indeed get that down to 2 pounds 14 ounces --- more like right at the
      3 pound edge of your suggested range with necessary stakes and longer
      straps (funnels optional at less than an ounce).

      It looks to me that at this point I could save maybe 9 ounces over
      what I'm doing now (without buying a new hammock) by replacing my
      supershelter + foam pad + space blanket with a JRB nest, at the cost
      of $240 more, but with hopefully a more comfortable and consistently
      warm sleep --- assuming any underquilt will be sufficiently draft-free
      (i.e., that gaps between underquilt and hammock body don't lose me the
      warm dead air I need). And that I could keep the thing dry enough in
      the pacific northwest to keep me reliably warm. And that I never had
      to pitch the hammock on the ground.

      Come late fall or winter I'll try out some options with my
      supershelter first, and if I just can't make that reasonably work in
      lower temps, I might indeed become another JRB customer! Or maybe a
      KAQ customer, accepting more weight for a synthetic that hopefully
      would keep me warm even if wet (?).

      I was interested in the setup that you mentioned above, and wonder if
      you could expand a couple of the abbreviations (please):

      "HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL stakes , A JRB Nest
      under quilt w/Suspension system" that you said comes out to exactly 48
      ounces.

      HH ELR is what? The Hennessy Explorer Ultralight A-Sym is listed at 2
      pounds 7 ounces (39 ounces), so that can't be it, unless you're
      somehow saving a lot of weight on an alternate (but bigger?) fly. I'm
      not sure what an STL is; I presume 8x8 refers to some alternative fly
      you're using. ti UL stakes are likely light weight (ti == titanium)
      stakes.

      Again, I'm truly not meaning to be critical or negative or anything,
      just trying to understand --- if a JRB nest with stuff sack and
      suspension system is 22 ounces, then 48 - 22 = 26 ounces for your
      hammock with alternate fly and stakes. That might work if ELR is a
      strange abbreviation for Hyperlite ...


      Brian Lewis
    • Brian Lewis
      Thanks for the feedback, Joe. I sure wish I had read more here and elsewhere before going with the Supershelter; if you or others have tips (I hope you ll be
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 1, 2006
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        Thanks for the feedback, Joe. I sure wish I had read more here and
        elsewhere before going with the Supershelter; if you or others have
        tips (I hope you'll be experimenting more too), I'll eagerly read and
        try 'em. I think that before I send more money to HH I'll see if I
        can't find some local source of open-celled-foam. Two pieces of such
        foam have a lot of friction so I would expect a piece put on top of
        the foam that came with the supershelter would stay put without more
        cordage, or maybe just a little velcro or something.

        I'm not sure that "hip and torso" pads are exactly what I need. My
        feet got cold; I'd definitely try to add some foam at the foot end.
        Yes to "Hips" (I'd say "butt"), as that's where a lot of pressure is
        --- asym or not, that part sags down some. At $30 and 5.5 ounces
        more, I might indeed just end up ordering a second underpad. A little
        frustrating to have to guess at all of this.

        Spare clothing doesn't work for me; as a trying-to-be-light hiker, I
        have darned few pieces of "spare" clothing, especially on a cold
        night. When it's cold I'll be wearing (in the hammock) both my
        lighter and heavier pairs of outer socks, warm hat,
        sweater/fleece/whatever (I use a Montbell UL Thermawrap) --- this
        allows me to camp with a darned light sleeping bag (20 ounces). About
        all I have for "spare clothes" at that point are a change of underwear
        and spare liner socks plus thin mittens. Which I use in my sleeping
        bag stuff sack under my neck (all the pillow I need).

        I can't help but think that maybe I'm just doing something
        fundamentally wrong with the supershelter; I'm not a person that needs
        a really warm bed at night. But there doesn't seem to be much room to
        misinterpret how to assemble and use the supershelter system, and it
        all looks right. Dunno.

        If I figure anything out this fall/winter when I do some at-home
        testing, I'll certainly post my results.



        Brian Lewis



        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jingram01@...> wrote:
        >
        > Brian, I too had become dissatisfied with sleeping on a CCF pad
        > inside my hammock. After a lot of reading and contemplation about the
        > various insulation systems which would fit my HH, I ordered the HH
        > undercover/pad, so I read with interest your thread on the HH system
        > tonight. I am not sure it will keep me warm to the temperatures I may
        > want to camp in, but I am likewise unsure about the other systems. I
        > have read both good and bad reviews of the HH system's insulating
        > ability. I have also read some good and bad reviews for both the JRB
        > and the KAQ (the other systems I was contemplating) and don't in any
        > way mean to knock them. I finally decided that the only way to know
        > if it would work for me was to give it a try.
        >
        > The factors that influenced me to select the HH was the ability to
        > leave the system attached when packing, which eliminates the need to
        > adjust it every night, the weight (13 ounces), and also the cost of
        > the system (I'm cheap).
        >
        > Before ordering the system I called and talked with Tom Hennessy
        > about a few questions I had. One of my questions was if it was
        > possible to add a second pad without compressing it too much if one
        > pad was not sufficient to get down to the temperatures I wanted to
        > reach. Tom expressed his belief that using a single pad, space
        > blanket and spare clothing would work for most people, but said that
        > using two pads would work if needed. He also mentioned that he does
        > still have hip and torso pads available, which would be lighter, less
        > bulky, and less expensive than a second pad. He is considering adding
        > them to his web site as optional items. But, even adding another
        > complete pad, the total weight of the system would only be 18.5
        > ounces with a total cost under $155, so I am willing to experiment
        > with it.
        >
        > If you develop any methods that you find improve your comfort range,
        > please post them. I would be interested in hearing about them.
        >
      • jack_tier
        ... for a ... oz ... pound ... 100 ... gear ... the ... review). ... you ... other ... pay ... could ... the ... longer ... cost ... consistently ... free ...
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 2, 2006
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Lewis" <brianle@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Pan wrote:
          > "Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site
          for a
          > couple of days.
          >
          > My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
          > hammocks were heavy or at least heavier than your bivi set up. The
          > stock BUL and SS system you chose is heavier than some other HH and
          > several other hammocks. There are posts on Whiteblaze.net that
          > probably have 30-40 responses of different hammock set ups, many in
          > the 3-3.5 pound range for hammocks , tarps and bottoms insulation
          > adequate for 30-35 degree use.To answer you question on specific
          > alternative the HH Hyperlight will shave 10 oz from the BUL
          > approach, Speer models can come in lighter depending on material.
          > (personally Iuse a HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL
          > stakes , A JRB Nest under quilt w/Suspension system and it come to
          > exactly 48 os.) Others are lighter, Carol Crooker on BPL hammocked
          > in the 5 pound challege last year with her entire base pack under 5
          > pounds.
          >
          > Looking over your post above, it appears that you are carrying 12
          oz
          > or so of alternative gear, blue pad, space blanket, tyvek,funnels,
          > and also a line level...this makes your set up appear almost a
          pound
          > heavier."
          >
          > =============================================================
          >
          > Thanks, Pan. Ditto about delayed response; my wife and I just
          > finished hiking around Mt. Rainier on the Wonderland Trail (about
          100
          > miles of all up-and-down). Sharing a tent, as my wife hasn't
          > converted, so I was back to dirt camping!
          >
          > When I responded to you last time, I hadn't realized you were a
          gear
          > maker (JacksRBetter); I really appreciate folks like you and Ed and
          > others that respond to us gear *users*!
          >
          > One thing that struck me in your suggested 2.5 to 3 pound range was
          > just simple math: my Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker is listed on
          the
          > Hennessy site as 1 pound 15 ounces. Your JRB Nest is listed at 20
          > ounces, plus another ounce for the stuff sack and I think another
          > ounce for the suspension system (? based on backpackgeartest
          review).
          > Those items then alone sum to 53 ounces --- 3.3 pounds ... that's
          > without including stakes to hold the sides out, or longer straps
          > (necessary in the NW).
          >
          > I could have saved 7 oz (or maybe 10 depending on which HH specs
          you
          > read ...) by going with the hyperlite instead of ultralight; the
          > hyperlight is very new, however, and I generally prefer to let
          other
          > pioneers get the arrows in their backs <g>. If I were willing to
          pay
          > more for a hammock that I would guess would wear out faster, I
          could
          > indeed get that down to 2 pounds 14 ounces --- more like right at
          the
          > 3 pound edge of your suggested range with necessary stakes and
          longer
          > straps (funnels optional at less than an ounce).
          >
          > It looks to me that at this point I could save maybe 9 ounces over
          > what I'm doing now (without buying a new hammock) by replacing my
          > supershelter + foam pad + space blanket with a JRB nest, at the
          cost
          > of $240 more, but with hopefully a more comfortable and
          consistently
          > warm sleep --- assuming any underquilt will be sufficiently draft-
          free
          > (i.e., that gaps between underquilt and hammock body don't lose me
          the
          > warm dead air I need). And that I could keep the thing dry
          enough in
          > the pacific northwest to keep me reliably warm. And that I never
          had
          > to pitch the hammock on the ground.
          >
          > Come late fall or winter I'll try out some options with my
          > supershelter first, and if I just can't make that reasonably work
          in
          > lower temps, I might indeed become another JRB customer! Or maybe
          a
          > KAQ customer, accepting more weight for a synthetic that hopefully
          > would keep me warm even if wet (?).
          >
          > I was interested in the setup that you mentioned above, and wonder
          if
          > you could expand a couple of the abbreviations (please):
          >
          > "HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL stakes , A JRB Nest
          > under quilt w/Suspension system" that you said comes out to
          exactly 48
          > ounces.
          >
          > HH ELR is what? The Hennessy Explorer Ultralight A-Sym is listed
          at 2
          > pounds 7 ounces (39 ounces), so that can't be it, unless you're
          > somehow saving a lot of weight on an alternate (but bigger?) fly.
          I'm
          > not sure what an STL is; I presume 8x8 refers to some alternative
          fly
          > you're using. ti UL stakes are likely light weight (ti ==
          titanium)
          > stakes.
          >
          > Again, I'm truly not meaning to be critical or negative or
          anything,
          > just trying to understand --- if a JRB nest with stuff sack and
          > suspension system is 22 ounces, then 48 - 22 = 26 ounces for your
          > hammock with alternate fly and stakes. That might work if ELR is
          a
          > strange abbreviation for Hyperlite ...
          >
          >
          > Brian Lewis
          >
          Brian,

          Welcome back from your hike...condolances or the hard ground...least
          you had great company.

          HH ELR= HH Extreme Light Racer...the 20 oz racer that several of us
          started using for all around backpacking....mine is in great shape
          after 60 nights and many afternoons of set up ...test some gear ...
          then tear down and repack etc...Medicine Man, frequent poster on
          Whiteblaze.net, has had similiar experiance....this hammock minus
          the fly of 7 oz or and including standard tree savers is 15
          oz ....This hammock and its growing general purpose use by the UL
          community is what led to the Hyper light....at $169 it is a lot less
          money than the HL at $219...But you do get the little gear loft
          pocket and a claim of more reliability for the HL (although they
          both appear to have 1.1 oz nlyon bottoms). Believe it is an oz
          lighter than the HL.

          STL = Self Tensioning Lines...1 oz per pair of 9.5 foot lines.

          8x8 = short hand for a JRB square tarp, no one else routinely makes
          and sells this size, with a diagonal center seam that fits most
          regular length hammocks.. it weighs 9.4 oz (which is about 2 oz more
          than a stock HH BULA fly).

          Hope this helps.... big trees, requiring longer staps, obviously
          will add proportionately ...save your short ones ...when you come
          east they will be useful and save a little... :-)

          Pan
        • Brian Lewis
          Thanks, Pan. The ELR ( Light Racer A-Sym on the HH site) isn t something I even considered; the text on the HH site puts Recommended for racing only in
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 3, 2006
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            Thanks, Pan. The ELR ("Light Racer A-Sym" on the HH site) isn't
            something I even considered; the text on the HH site puts "Recommended
            for racing only" in bold text, says that durability is sacrificed for
            weight, and that it has a limited one-year guarantee ... with the
            majority of the text about it being those sorts of caveats ...

            So I find it *very* interesting that you've already got 60 nights and
            many test afternoons on yours and report that it's in great shape!


            Brian Lewis
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