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Re: [Hammock Camping] sleeping bag (opened up) as an underquilt?

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  • Rick
    The important factors in using down as an underquilt in cold temperatures (my experience) are: - finding a way to not compress the outer fabric against the
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
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      The important factors in using down as an underquilt in cold
      temperatures (my experience) are:
      - finding a way to not compress the outer fabric against the down so
      that it compresses the down and decreases the amount of insulation
      - finding a way to make sure that the down is against the bottom of the
      hammock (finding a way to eliminate an air compartment between the down
      and the hammock)

      I have not found a way of doing that without using the surface of the
      hammock as the top surface of the down enclosing space.

      Rick

      gtvlfed wrote:
      > I've come to love using my underquilt (the JRB Nest). However, we're
      > reaching that time of year here in Nova Scotia where the quilt alone
      > isn't warm enough underneath. Adding a pad seems like such a
      > compromise - yes, I've become a quilt-snob.
      >
      > As it happens, I can get a winter weight (-12C) down (800) mummy
      > sleeping bag for a very very good price. I took a good look at it and
      > if the hood was removed (perhaps turned into a separate clothing
      > item), the foot box was opened up, the zippers cut (but taping left
      > intact) and attachment straps added... it looks as though it could
      > easily be converted to a very suitable underquilt. It doesn't appear
      > that there'd be alot of excess bag (and therefore unnecessary
      > weight/bulk).
      >
      > What makes this option worth thinking about is that I can get lots of
      > insulation, in quality down and, at the moment, at a better price than
      > anything else I'm aware of.
      >
      > Anyone tried this and if so, how did it work out? Any reactions or
      > suggestions?
      >
      > Jim
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Jeff
      Agree with what Risk said - those are the difficulties, and the best way I ve found to overcome them is an insulated hammock. But then you lose some
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
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        Agree with what Risk said - those are the difficulties, and the best
        way I've found to overcome them is an insulated hammock. But then you
        lose some flexibility to adjust for temps, that the underquilt
        preserves, if that's important for you. I think both probably have
        their places depending on conditions.

        I don't remember who has made an underquilt from a down bag, but
        Patrick made his first KAQ prototype from a synthetic TNF bag. He put
        pics at whiteblaze.net and he's on this list.

        Jeff
      • gtvlfed
        ... Thanks Rick & Jeff, both sets of comments are helpful. And it s true that the more insulation, the greater the tendancy to sag away from the hammock
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@...> wrote:
          >
          > The important factors in using down as an underquilt in cold
          > temperatures (my experience) are:
          > - finding a way to not compress the outer fabric against the down so
          > that it compresses the down and decreases the amount of insulation
          > - finding a way to make sure that the down is against the bottom of the
          > hammock (finding a way to eliminate an air compartment between the down
          > and the hammock)
          >
          > I have not found a way of doing that without using the surface of the
          > hammock as the top surface of the down enclosing space.


          Thanks Rick & Jeff, both sets of comments are helpful. And it's true
          that the more insulation, the greater the tendancy to sag away from
          the hammock bottom... or overtighten and compress the down.

          I failed to mention the I'm working with a HH and do like the idea of
          the flexibility to change of remove the underquilt to match conditions.

          Just a thought, is it feasible to have a series of attachment
          mechanisms (ie. ties) sewn to the bottom of a HH that would match up
          with ties/grommets on the topside of the underquilt so that it could
          be held close and not compress... regardless of the weight of the
          occupant?

          Jim
        • Jeff
          ... Yes. Hammock Hanger on TrailForums (and sometimes no whiteblaze) made one like that. I don t know how adjustable it is for the weight of the occupant,
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 1, 2006
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "gtvlfed" <jneale@...> wrote:
            > Just a thought, is it feasible to have a series of attachment
            > mechanisms (ie. ties) sewn to the bottom of a HH that would match up
            > with ties/grommets on the topside of the underquilt so that it could
            > be held close and not compress... regardless of the weight of the
            > occupant?

            Yes. Hammock Hanger on TrailForums (and sometimes no whiteblaze) made
            one like that. I don't know how adjustable it is for the weight of
            the occupant, but she sewed tabs onto the HH to match her underquilt
            tabs. A simple cordlock would make it adjustable.

            Another idea is to run elastic or shockcord inside the top shell. For
            synthetic, just put the quilting loops around the shockcord and it'll
            help pull the top layer against the hammock w/o compressing the
            insulation. Haven't tested to see if it's worth the weight, though.

            Jeff
          • jack_tier
            ... down so ... insulation ... of the ... the down ... of the ... true ... of ... conditions. ... up ... could ... FWIW, most of the JRB quilts have the
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 2, 2006
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "gtvlfed" <jneale@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@> wrote:
              > >
              > > The important factors in using down as an underquilt in cold
              > > temperatures (my experience) are:
              > > - finding a way to not compress the outer fabric against the
              down so
              > > that it compresses the down and decreases the amount of
              insulation
              > > - finding a way to make sure that the down is against the bottom
              of the
              > > hammock (finding a way to eliminate an air compartment between
              the down
              > > and the hammock)
              > >
              > > I have not found a way of doing that without using the surface
              of the
              > > hammock as the top surface of the down enclosing space.
              >
              >
              > Thanks Rick & Jeff, both sets of comments are helpful. And it's
              true
              > that the more insulation, the greater the tendancy to sag away from
              > the hammock bottom... or overtighten and compress the down.
              >
              > I failed to mention the I'm working with a HH and do like the idea
              of
              > the flexibility to change of remove the underquilt to match
              conditions.
              >
              > Just a thought, is it feasible to have a series of attachment
              > mechanisms (ie. ties) sewn to the bottom of a HH that would match
              up
              > with ties/grommets on the topside of the underquilt so that it
              could
              > be held close and not compress... regardless of the weight of the
              > occupant?
              >
              > Jim
              >

              FWIW, most of the JRB quilts have the mounting tabs for use as an
              under quilt....they are designed to be doubled up as necessary for
              weather below 30 degrees....many use their No Sniveller below their
              Nest and a suitable winter bag from their old gear locker on
              top...Or if weight is an issue, the ORM is a true winter quilt at 3+
              inches of loft for a single layer...

              Pan
            • Chinell, David F (GE Indust, Security)
              I just posted three new pictures, but I have no idea to which album. I also posted them to MY album, Bear s Pix. They re all titled Ring-and-toggle is
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 5, 2006
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                I just posted three new pictures, but I have no idea to which album. I also posted them to MY album, "Bear's Pix."

                They're all titled "Ring-and-toggle" is there any way you can find them and remove them from the wrong folder?

                Bear


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Chinell, David F (GE Indust, Security)
                Hangers: Here s part two of my weekend experiments. Years ago, I started using the double-ring method in an attempt to get easy adjustment without untying and
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 5, 2006
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                  Hangers:

                  Here's part two of my weekend experiments.

                  Years ago, I started using the double-ring method in an attempt to get easy adjustment without untying and retying knots. Later, I decided to make the rings serve as drip rings as well, but I couldn't always put the rings in the same location every time with respect to my tarp (i.e. under it).

                  Still the method isn't too shabby, and I'm gratified that some of you are able to use it to good effect.

                  This weekend, I was experimenting with a way to keep the bitter end of the strap aligned so it wouldn't slide off to the side and let the webbing slip. I discovered a new system that's a mystery to me. I mean why it works is a mystery -- but it works. There are photos in my folder, Bear's Pix. They're titled "ring-and-toggle."

                  Here's a description. All the rings I used were 2-inch outside diameter, but I'm pretty sure any size will do. In fact, I did a couple of versions with an oval carabiner in place of a ring.

                  I use hammocks with casings in both ends. To start, I replaced the supplied hammock cord with a two-foot cord tied in a loop through the casing. To this I attach a ring using a lark's head hitch. This puts my hammock ring / drip ring at a constant distance of one foot from the hammock end, no matter how far apart the trees are.

                  My tree ropes for this experiment were two twenty-foot lengths of 1-inch polypropylene webbing. These have a loop tied in one end. I also attach a ring to this loop, using a lark's head hitch.

                  To hang the hammock, you start by attaching your tree ropes however you prefer. The tree ropes handle all the variations of tree diameter and separation. You just stop wrapping the tree when you have three or four feet (however much you need to reach the hammock and still have at least a foot of webbing to spare).

                  Pass the bitter end through the hammock ring and pull it back along the standing run. (The two sections of tree webbing are going to lie on top of each other in the end.)

                  When it's at the right spot, place a ring on top of the webbing, reach through and pull up a loop of the double-thickness of webbing (both the standing run and the bitter run). Insert a toggle through the loop, and let the webbing pull the toggle down onto the ring. Square and align everything.

                  That's it.

                  I was just trying to improvise a ladder buckle to position the bitter end, but for fun I tested my weight on it. I was astonished to find that it held my weight with utterly no slippage (and no chance of misaligned webbing).

                  Additional notes:

                  I suppose what I'm making with the ring and toggle is a form of ladder buckle, and that makes me wonder if a standard ladder buckle would do the same job.

                  In the pictures, you're looking at a three-inch length of 1/4-inch diameter aluminum rod. I started off using 3/8-inch doweling, and that worked fine too, though it put serious dents in the dowels where they rested on the ring. So I just cut up some metal rod I had handy.

                  The parts are troublesome to keep track of. I'd like to find a rod with a hole through it and tie it to the ring, so there's one less thing to juggle.

                  Toggle stick only - knotless knot

                  Loooong ago I discovered a way to tie my tropical hammock using no hardware, just a toggle stick. There's a diagram of that in my Bear's Pix folder too. It requires a long loop of webbing through the casing -- but that's how most tropical hammocks ship, anyway.

                  As the diagram shows, you need a separate tree rope or tree webbing. The bitter end of the loop from the hammock rope goes up through the tree rope, down along the standing run. When it's adjusted, you reach through the bitter end loop, pull up the two strands of the standing run, and insert a toggle under them. To keep the toggle from sliding up towards the tree, you throw a loop of the standing run over both sides of the toggle.

                  There. That's my weekend.

                  Bear


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Coy
                  cool! David, have you tried to eliminate the ring up next to the tree (to save some weight). Using the ring and toggle you have you would just start with your
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 6, 2006
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                    cool!

                    David, have you tried to eliminate the ring up next to the tree (to
                    save some weight). Using the ring and toggle you have you would
                    just start with your 20 foot strap folded in half. Face the tree
                    with your back pointed to the other tree. Take the center of your
                    strap and place it against the tree and pass both ends around the
                    tree. They will come out on the other side (opposite side they
                    started on but coming back toward you) but stay spread however wide
                    the tree is. Now take both ends but only put one through the ring
                    at your hammock and pull it to the proper (a guess) tightness. come
                    towards this strap with the other strap and have them lay directly
                    on top of each other only they will be headed in opposite
                    directions. place the ring on top and pull both straps up through
                    it and put the toggle in place. to avoid any possible sliding you
                    could just take the ends (now headed away from each other and tie a
                    bow (shoe knot) back across the top of the toggle.

                    or just sew a loop in the end of your strap (like you did to hold
                    the ring) only just pass the bitter end through it. this would make
                    a chocker. all adjustment would be made at the loop and toggle.

                    Coy Boy

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Chinell, David F \(GE
                    Indust, Security\)" <david.chinell@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hangers:
                    >
                    > Here's part two of my weekend experiments.
                    >
                    > Years ago, I started using the double-ring method in an attempt to
                    get easy adjustment without untying and retying knots. Later, I
                    decided to make the rings serve as drip rings as well, but I
                    couldn't always put the rings in the same location every time with
                    respect to my tarp (i.e. under it).
                    >
                    > Still the method isn't too shabby, and I'm gratified that some of
                    you are able to use it to good effect.
                    >
                    > This weekend, I was experimenting with a way to keep the bitter
                    end of the strap aligned so it wouldn't slide off to the side and
                    let the webbing slip. I discovered a new system that's a mystery to
                    me. I mean why it works is a mystery -- but it works. There are
                    photos in my folder, Bear's Pix. They're titled "ring-and-toggle."
                    >
                    > Here's a description. All the rings I used were 2-inch outside
                    diameter, but I'm pretty sure any size will do. In fact, I did a
                    couple of versions with an oval carabiner in place of a ring.
                    >
                    > I use hammocks with casings in both ends. To start, I replaced the
                    supplied hammock cord with a two-foot cord tied in a loop through
                    the casing. To this I attach a ring using a lark's head hitch. This
                    puts my hammock ring / drip ring at a constant distance of one foot
                    from the hammock end, no matter how far apart the trees are.
                    >
                    > My tree ropes for this experiment were two twenty-foot lengths of
                    1-inch polypropylene webbing. These have a loop tied in one end. I
                    also attach a ring to this loop, using a lark's head hitch.
                    >
                    > To hang the hammock, you start by attaching your tree ropes
                    however you prefer. The tree ropes handle all the variations of tree
                    diameter and separation. You just stop wrapping the tree when you
                    have three or four feet (however much you need to reach the hammock
                    and still have at least a foot of webbing to spare).
                    >
                    > Pass the bitter end through the hammock ring and pull it back
                    along the standing run. (The two sections of tree webbing are going
                    to lie on top of each other in the end.)
                    >
                    > When it's at the right spot, place a ring on top of the webbing,
                    reach through and pull up a loop of the double-thickness of webbing
                    (both the standing run and the bitter run). Insert a toggle through
                    the loop, and let the webbing pull the toggle down onto the ring.
                    Square and align everything.
                    >
                    > That's it.
                    >
                    > I was just trying to improvise a ladder buckle to position the
                    bitter end, but for fun I tested my weight on it. I was astonished
                    to find that it held my weight with utterly no slippage (and no
                    chance of misaligned webbing).
                    >
                    > Additional notes:
                    >
                    > I suppose what I'm making with the ring and toggle is a form of
                    ladder buckle, and that makes me wonder if a standard ladder buckle
                    would do the same job.
                    >
                    > In the pictures, you're looking at a three-inch length of 1/4-inch
                    diameter aluminum rod. I started off using 3/8-inch doweling, and
                    that worked fine too, though it put serious dents in the dowels
                    where they rested on the ring. So I just cut up some metal rod I had
                    handy.
                    >
                    > The parts are troublesome to keep track of. I'd like to find a rod
                    with a hole through it and tie it to the ring, so there's one less
                    thing to juggle.
                    >
                    > Toggle stick only - knotless knot
                    >
                    > Loooong ago I discovered a way to tie my tropical hammock using no
                    hardware, just a toggle stick. There's a diagram of that in my
                    Bear's Pix folder too. It requires a long loop of webbing through
                    the casing -- but that's how most tropical hammocks ship, anyway.
                    >
                    > As the diagram shows, you need a separate tree rope or tree
                    webbing. The bitter end of the loop from the hammock rope goes up
                    through the tree rope, down along the standing run. When it's
                    adjusted, you reach through the bitter end loop, pull up the two
                    strands of the standing run, and insert a toggle under them. To keep
                    the toggle from sliding up towards the tree, you throw a loop of the
                    standing run over both sides of the toggle.
                    >
                    > There. That's my weekend.
                    >
                    > Bear
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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