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HH on PCT report

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  • Brian Lewis
    I m a fairly new hammock camper, and I just came back (Tuesday) from a 10-day (150 mile) trip on the Pacific Crest Trail in Washington State that I did with a
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 11, 2006
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      I'm a fairly new hammock camper, and I just came back (Tuesday) from a
      10-day (150 mile) trip on the Pacific Crest Trail in Washington State
      that I did with a couple of "dirt campers" (solo tent dwellers).

      I used my HH UL backpacker asym, with the supershelter system
      (undercover and underpad). I brought a 54" long ccf pad for inside as
      well to hopefully ensure sufficient warmth, and I have a lightweight
      down bag rated at 32 degrees that I used as a blanket. I also brought
      a space blanket for optional use in between the layers.

      Lowest temperatures were somewhere in the 30's. My cheap thermometer
      told me it never got below the low 40's inside the hammock (I hung
      this from the ridgeline inside). Only a couple of the nights were
      cold, but my 54" long ccf pad wasn't long enough, so I sacrificed my
      shoulder area (wore more clothes there) to ensure the ccf pad extended
      to my feet (and I just yesterday bought a longer and wider ccf ...).
      Feet and butt were coldest. No real problems, but I did satisfy
      myself that the space blanket really does help when temps are low. A
      standard space blanket, btw, also has the same problem my pad did ---
      too wide but not long enough. Kind of a hassle to put in and take out
      the space blanket each night too.

      Speaking of which, my total setup time is still substantially slower
      than my dirt camper friends. Tear-down is just as fast, but
      estimating or measuring space between trees (to decide how high to
      hang), maybe clearly some sticks etc from the ground area, getting
      straps sized to trees (I carry two sets of two sizes), getting things
      level, getting things taut, etc etc always took me longer. I might
      continue to get a little faster at this, but I think my setup time
      will just flat be slower than for pitching a tent. So be it.

      Hiking with dirt campers made me a little concerned about finding good
      hanging spots nearby, but in none of the ten nights did I have any
      significant problems. Sometimes I was a bit farther from camp-central
      than others, but no worries. OTOH, it was very handy some nights
      that I had a hammock as we sometimes struggled to even find two flat
      spots for their solo tents at some of the sites.

      On my last night out I was pretty confident and setup with no problems
      until I sat on the hammock to tighten up knots/etc ... and realized
      that one of the trees I had tied to was dead (all the bark was there,
      this wasn't immediately obvious). The way I found this out was that
      the tree started to give way (my way). I hopped off/out quick enough
      that it didn't come down and I didn't even have to move much, as
      another nearby tree offered an alternate anchor point close enough.

      That same night I had a big rock with the remains of a small tree
      stump poking up about where I ended up handing, and thought I had hung
      high enough to avoid issues. Nope. At some point I realized this
      somewhat pointy tree stumplet was poking me in the back/side. Whacked
      on it in the dark with a big rock, raised my foot end slightly higher
      and tightened cords and that solved it.

      Using the supershelter system I'm still really enjoying a compression
      stuff sack to keep the underpad in as part of the system. Works
      great, saves some hassle.

      Overall most nights the weather was surprisingly warm and dry (no
      dew), to the point that I finally stopped putting up my tarp and left
      my bag in its stuff sack hanging just outside the hammock until maybe
      2 am or so. This isn't what I consider typical for the pacific
      northwest! A little warm underneath, but I left the undercover and
      underpad in place knowing things would get colder later in the night.

      No major condensation problems, but always some with the ccf pad in there.

      Trees are big here in the NW. I bought 72" straps from HH to augment
      the 42" straps that come standard. Mixing and matching these always
      got me through. I use the standard HH wrap on one end, and a figure 8
      and tautline hitch on the other (the figure 8 loop helps me quickly
      figure out which end is which when pulling the hammock out of the
      compression sack). On the tautline hitch side, sizing the strapping
      to the tree is easier because if it comes out a little long I just run
      one end of the strap through the other and tie off to that. This
      solution doesn't work well with the HH wrap/knot.

      I had been having trouble with a sort of crick in the small of my back
      on earlier trips. I had very little of this after the first couple of
      days on this trip. Dunno if I just got over it, got used to it, or
      was so tired I didn't notice it! <g> The hammock system worked
      fine, with setup/tinker time and temperature control the biggest
      issues. I didn't encounter enough rain to comment on. I did have a
      very windy night, and my dirt-camper-constrained location wasn't in an
      ideal direction to the wind at that site. Weighting the side corners
      of the tarp made a big difference; I just wrapped a mini-bungy cord
      around a piece of volcanic rock for both sides and hung them from the
      supplied plastic hooks. The noise of the flapping tarp would
      otherwise have been pretty annoying.

      I originally was willing to try the HH based on the low weight of the
      base hammock, just under 2 pounds. I reckon, however, that by the
      time I add up all the hammock-specific crap I'm carrying I've lost the
      weight battle substantially ... hammock + standard tarp + undercover +
      underpad + two sets of straps + compression stuff sack weigh 3-1/4
      pounds. Add in a space blanket, a ccf pad, light stakes, mini-biners,
      an optional tyvek ground cloth in case I have to pitch as a ground
      tent, maybe a line level, maybe the HH funnels for rainy nights, and
      the total comes to over four pounds. My bivy sack + a thermarest
      come out at 3 pounds.

      The flexibility of setting up just about anywhere tilts me to accept
      the extra pound. Grumblingly. <g>



      Brian Lewis

      P.S. Someone asked the weight of the standard HH fly (tarp) alone.
      Mine is 7.6 ounces. That counts the thin plastic bag I carry it in,
      but I think that's almost negligible.
    • Scott Macri
      I too take longer than I like to setup my hammock. I think we will get faster with experience. If I were you I would scrap the pad, mini stakes, mini biners
      Message 2 of 30 , Aug 11, 2006
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        I too take longer than I like to setup my hammock. I think we will get
        faster with experience. If I were you I would scrap the pad, mini stakes,
        mini biners and the extra set of straps. This will help lighten your load.
        I might even consider dumping the tyvec, but that's just me.

        Instead of using the pad you can stuff your extra clothes, rain gear and
        space blanket under, or above your underpad. You should put the bulky stuff
        under the underpad, and the thin light stuff above the underpad. You can
        even stuff some dead leaves and earth in the supershelter to add to the
        insulation.

        --
        Scott A. Macri
        Trail Name: Mowgli
        www.HikeHaven.com
        http://360.yahoo.com/hacktorious

        On 8/11/06, Brian Lewis <brianle@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm a fairly new hammock camper, and I just came back (Tuesday) from a
        > 10-day (150 mile) trip on the Pacific Crest Trail in Washington State
        > that I did with a couple of "dirt campers" (solo tent dwellers).
        >
        > I used my HH UL backpacker asym, with the supershelter system
        > (undercover and underpad). I brought a 54" long ccf pad for inside as
        > well to hopefully ensure sufficient warmth, and I have a lightweight
        > down bag rated at 32 degrees that I used as a blanket. I also brought
        > a space blanket for optional use in between the layers.
        >
        > Lowest temperatures were somewhere in the 30's. My cheap thermometer
        > told me it never got below the low 40's inside the hammock (I hung
        > this from the ridgeline inside). Only a couple of the nights were
        > cold, but my 54" long ccf pad wasn't long enough, so I sacrificed my
        > shoulder area (wore more clothes there) to ensure the ccf pad extended
        > to my feet (and I just yesterday bought a longer and wider ccf ...).
        > Feet and butt were coldest. No real problems, but I did satisfy
        > myself that the space blanket really does help when temps are low. A
        > standard space blanket, btw, also has the same problem my pad did ---
        > too wide but not long enough. Kind of a hassle to put in and take out
        > the space blanket each night too.
        >
        > Speaking of which, my total setup time is still substantially slower
        > than my dirt camper friends. Tear-down is just as fast, but
        > estimating or measuring space between trees (to decide how high to
        > hang), maybe clearly some sticks etc from the ground area, getting
        > straps sized to trees (I carry two sets of two sizes), getting things
        > level, getting things taut, etc etc always took me longer. I might
        > continue to get a little faster at this, but I think my setup time
        > will just flat be slower than for pitching a tent. So be it.
        >
        > Hiking with dirt campers made me a little concerned about finding good
        > hanging spots nearby, but in none of the ten nights did I have any
        > significant problems. Sometimes I was a bit farther from camp-central
        > than others, but no worries. OTOH, it was very handy some nights
        > that I had a hammock as we sometimes struggled to even find two flat
        > spots for their solo tents at some of the sites.
        >
        > On my last night out I was pretty confident and setup with no problems
        > until I sat on the hammock to tighten up knots/etc ... and realized
        > that one of the trees I had tied to was dead (all the bark was there,
        > this wasn't immediately obvious). The way I found this out was that
        > the tree started to give way (my way). I hopped off/out quick enough
        > that it didn't come down and I didn't even have to move much, as
        > another nearby tree offered an alternate anchor point close enough.
        >
        > That same night I had a big rock with the remains of a small tree
        > stump poking up about where I ended up handing, and thought I had hung
        > high enough to avoid issues. Nope. At some point I realized this
        > somewhat pointy tree stumplet was poking me in the back/side. Whacked
        > on it in the dark with a big rock, raised my foot end slightly higher
        > and tightened cords and that solved it.
        >
        > Using the supershelter system I'm still really enjoying a compression
        > stuff sack to keep the underpad in as part of the system. Works
        > great, saves some hassle.
        >
        > Overall most nights the weather was surprisingly warm and dry (no
        > dew), to the point that I finally stopped putting up my tarp and left
        > my bag in its stuff sack hanging just outside the hammock until maybe
        > 2 am or so. This isn't what I consider typical for the pacific
        > northwest! A little warm underneath, but I left the undercover and
        > underpad in place knowing things would get colder later in the night.
        >
        > No major condensation problems, but always some with the ccf pad in there.
        >
        > Trees are big here in the NW. I bought 72" straps from HH to augment
        > the 42" straps that come standard. Mixing and matching these always
        > got me through. I use the standard HH wrap on one end, and a figure 8
        > and tautline hitch on the other (the figure 8 loop helps me quickly
        > figure out which end is which when pulling the hammock out of the
        > compression sack). On the tautline hitch side, sizing the strapping
        > to the tree is easier because if it comes out a little long I just run
        > one end of the strap through the other and tie off to that. This
        > solution doesn't work well with the HH wrap/knot.
        >
        > I had been having trouble with a sort of crick in the small of my back
        > on earlier trips. I had very little of this after the first couple of
        > days on this trip. Dunno if I just got over it, got used to it, or
        > was so tired I didn't notice it! <g> The hammock system worked
        > fine, with setup/tinker time and temperature control the biggest
        > issues. I didn't encounter enough rain to comment on. I did have a
        > very windy night, and my dirt-camper-constrained location wasn't in an
        > ideal direction to the wind at that site. Weighting the side corners
        > of the tarp made a big difference; I just wrapped a mini-bungy cord
        > around a piece of volcanic rock for both sides and hung them from the
        > supplied plastic hooks. The noise of the flapping tarp would
        > otherwise have been pretty annoying.
        >
        > I originally was willing to try the HH based on the low weight of the
        > base hammock, just under 2 pounds. I reckon, however, that by the
        > time I add up all the hammock-specific crap I'm carrying I've lost the
        > weight battle substantially ... hammock + standard tarp + undercover +
        > underpad + two sets of straps + compression stuff sack weigh 3-1/4
        > pounds. Add in a space blanket, a ccf pad, light stakes, mini-biners,
        > an optional tyvek ground cloth in case I have to pitch as a ground
        > tent, maybe a line level, maybe the HH funnels for rainy nights, and
        > the total comes to over four pounds. My bivy sack + a thermarest
        > come out at 3 pounds.
        >
        > The flexibility of setting up just about anywhere tilts me to accept
        > the extra pound. Grumblingly. <g>
        >
        > Brian Lewis
        >
        > P.S. Someone asked the weight of the standard HH fly (tarp) alone.
        > Mine is 7.6 ounces. That counts the thin plastic bag I carry it in,
        > but I think that's almost negligible.
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brian Lewis
        Scott wrote: If I were you I would scrap the pad, mini stakes, mini biners and the extra set of straps. This will help lighten your load. I might even
        Message 3 of 30 , Aug 11, 2006
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          Scott wrote:
          "If I were you I would scrap the pad, mini stakes, mini biners and the
          extra set of straps. This will help lighten your load. I might even
          consider dumping the tyvec, but that's just me.
          Instead of using the pad you can stuff your extra clothes, rain gear
          and space blanket under, or above your underpad. You should put the
          bulky stuff under the underpad, and the thin light stuff above the
          underpad. You can even stuff some dead leaves and earth in the
          supershelter to add to the insulation."


          Scrap my ccf pad? I don't have much in the way of extra clothes, most
          I'm wearing or don't provide much warmth/insulation. Putting my rain
          pants in the supershelter I found that things like that all ended up
          wadded up under my butt, not spread out. The space blanket I do
          indeed already use in the way you describe, when it seems likely to be
          cold enough to warrant that. In any event, my experience on the
          colder nights was that even with underpad + undercover + space blanket
          and wearing some clothes, I wasn't warm enough without the ccf pad
          inside.

          Has anyone ever actually tried dead leaves? Seems like a hassle, and
          the NW has more fir trees (needles, not leaves). There is spanish
          moss, however. But the colder NW nights are perhaps more likely to
          find all that stuff wet.

          Scrap my stakes? The hammock is designed to be staked out at the
          side, and my HH didn't come with stakes. I could do with two instead
          of four, but I like the option to separately stake out the tarp, and
          if I ever have to "go to ground" I need stakes at both the ends and
          the sides. My four small MSR stakes ($1.60 each) weigh 1.3 ounces for
          all four. Cutting sticks each night is a hassle.

          Mini-biners: these weigh 3 *grams* each. I use one to hang a little
          water bottle on the HH ridgeline, another my thermometer, another a
          small bag inside the hammock, or sometimes I hang the backpack from a
          tree strap. Doesn't seem like a good thing to scrap. The little
          plastic hooks HH puts inside the hammock are on the wrong side of the
          little mesh pocket thing IMO.

          Scrap the extra straps: I suspect your hammock experience is in an
          area with smaller trees. In the Northwest the standard HH 42" straps
          definitely don't cut it. The standard (included) pair of 42" straps
          weigh 1.8 ounces. The pair of 72" straps from HH that I added weigh
          2.6 ounces in addition. I typically combine a 42" strap with a 72"
          strap to get around some of the trees that I end up hanging from.

          Tyvec: I might dump that. If I wasn't hiking with dirt campers, I
          probably would, but the odds seemed high enough that I might have to
          setup on the ground at some point, and I'd prefer to have a light
          ground cloth in that event. This adds 1.4 ounces.

          I don't mean to be argumentative here (!) and definitely appreciate
          the feedback. The above is more in line of saying that my experience
          doesn't match well with what you're suggesting; if I'm
          misunderstanding ... I'm definitely eager to learn from other people's
          experience!!



          Brian
        • Jeff
          Sounds like you had a great trip and learned some good lessons for ... there, ... that ... enough ... So the tree was dead enough that your weight made it
          Message 4 of 30 , Aug 11, 2006
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            Sounds like you had a great trip and learned some good lessons for
            the future. One observation:

            > ... and realized
            > that one of the trees I had tied to was dead (all the bark was
            there,
            > this wasn't immediately obvious). The way I found this out was
            that
            > the tree started to give way (my way). I hopped off/out quick
            enough
            > that it didn't come down and I didn't even have to move much, as
            > another nearby tree offered an alternate anchor point close enough.

            So the tree was dead enough that your weight made it start falling
            in your direction...i.e., towards the other tree you were hanging
            from. And then you used that same tree, with a dead tree leaning
            towards you that's loose enough for your weight to pull it down, to
            sleep the rest of the night? Good thing it wasn't windy...

            Just a thought. I don't hang that close to dead trees.

            Jeff
          • Rosaleen Sullivan
            Hi, All- Yippee! Hubby actually left his laptop behind as he is doing some errands. Mine is still broken, so this laptop is a coveted item, the only Internet
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 12, 2006
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              Hi, All-

              Yippee! Hubby actually left his laptop behind as he is doing some errands. Mine is still broken, so this laptop is a coveted item, the only Internet access in our household...

              I have been working on a sort of trip report for my summer adventure. I left June 22 and have been home 2 weeks today. One week of which I was basically out of it with an abscessed tooth and the meds for it. One might say I'm a bit behind with my E-mail, etc.

              Adding to some of Brian L's and Scott M's discussion-

              Re: HH on PCT report
              Posted by: "Brian Lewis" brianle@...<mailto:brianle@...> brianxlewx
              Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:58 am (PDT)

              Mini-biners: these weigh 3 *grams* each. I use one to hang a little
              water bottle on the HH ridgeline, another my thermometer, another a
              small bag inside the hammock, or sometimes I hang the backpack from a
              tree strap. Doesn't seem like a good thing to scrap. The little
              plastic hooks HH puts inside the hammock are on the wrong side of the
              little mesh pocket thing IMO.

              ***If you are up for spending a few bucks to save more weight, check out the wire gate micro-biners at <Backpackinglight.com>. http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ursalite_micro_carabiner.html<http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ursalite_micro_carabiner.html> Also, Take a look at the mesh hanging bag and the mitten hooks on the ridgeline. I decided I wanted the hooks on the other side and was able to work the (empty) mesh bag through the "eye" of the hooks.

              Scrap the extra straps: I suspect your hammock experience is in an area with smaller trees.
              (SNIP)

              ***I'm mostly and east coast hammocker and have limited experience with the huge-girthed trees some encounter. If the trees are close enough that I don't need all the suspension lines to span tree distances, I've had decent luck with vertically placing one or more twigs under the ropes where they might contact the trees' bark. I've also tied extra line to the tree huggers and tied the "auxiliary" line/lines to other trees when ideally spaced trees were not also of sufficient diameter. Car camping I am more likely to have spare line than when backpacking, of course.


              Tyvec: I might dump that. If I wasn't hiking with dirt campers, I
              probably would, but the odds seemed high enough that I might have to
              setup on the ground at some point, and I'd prefer to have a light
              ground cloth in that event. This adds 1.4 ounces.

              ***Consider a lighter ground cloth. If you can deal with the noise, a space blanket or even a half-width space blanket may suffice. One of the lightest groundcloths can be found at <GossamerGear.com>. http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/polycryo_ground_cloth.html<http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/polycryo_ground_clothhtml>>
              I will get back to my trip report and lengthy what worked/didn't, but for now, one thing I was happy using for under-hammock insulation was a 100 wt., single napped fleece tunic I threw together. Attached to the underside and pullouts with elastic cord, it stayed in place and held IN PLACE a length of 1/8" ccf. Worked great! This pad would crumple/ball up inside the hammock but worked well on top of the thin fleece, napped side up. The ccf pad was also my back padding for my pack, and the tunic was great on chilly evenings and early mornings around camp.

              Best-

              Rosaleen

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Brian Lewis
              Rosaleen suggested: ***If you are up for spending a few bucks to save more weight, check out the wire gate micro-biners at .
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 12, 2006
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                Rosaleen suggested:
                "***If you are up for spending a few bucks to save more weight, check
                out the wire gate micro-biners at <Backpackinglight.com>.
                http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ursalite_micro_carabiner.html"


                Thanks, Rosaleen --- these are in fact exactly what I carry, at 3
                grams each. I can attest that these work great --- one of them holds
                up my backpack with several pounds of stuff still in it (hang against
                a tree from hammock strapping and put a pack cover over it). I use
                another to hold up my food (bear) bag, and probably had 6 pounds of
                food in it the first night after resupply.

                I found some slightly heavier (5 gram) "very small" biners at a local
                sporting goods store, Coleman brand, that were a lot cheaper, however.
                Of course I found these *after* I had bought the more expensive 3
                gram versions from backpackinglight!


                "Also, Take a look at the mesh hanging bag and the mitten hooks on the
                ridgeline. I decided I wanted the hooks on the other side and was
                able to work the (empty) mesh bag through the "eye" of the hooks."

                Really! I'll try that today. At first glance that mesh bag is a lot
                of material to work through --- I would never have thought to try.
                Thanks!


                "If the trees are close enough that I don't need all the suspension
                lines to span tree distances, I've had decent luck with vertically
                placing one or more twigs under the ropes where they might contact
                the trees' bark. I've also tied extra line to the tree huggers and
                tied the "auxiliary" line/lines to other trees when ideally spaced
                trees were not also of sufficient diameter."


                I don't think the latter idea helps me with "trees are too large", and
                without wanting to re-stir up the "straps or ropes around trees"
                debate I'm not comfortable putting fairly thin cord directly around
                tree trunks. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your thought here ...


                "***Consider a lighter ground cloth. If you can deal with the noise,
                a space blanket or even a half-width space blanket may suffice. One
                of the lightest groundcloths can be found at <GossamerGear.com>.
                http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/polycryo_ground_cloth.html"

                The smallest version of the GossamerGear ground cloth is 1.3 oz. The
                tyvek I had lying around and cut ~to fit weighs 1.4 oz.

                A space blanket is an interesting thought, though, since I carry one
                anyway (and I'll likely cut up two space blankets to allow me to carry
                just the minimum noisy-and-awkward-to-fold-back-up space blanket
                material that I actually need). But would that really suit as a
                ground cloth? It's darn thin stuff. If the only goal of the ground
                cloth is to keep the hammock clean, it should suit. If it's to reduce
                abrasion and chances of something puncturing the cloth ... maybe yes
                to the former, no to the latter. The kicker is whether it would
                degrade the space blanket for use on a later night when it got cold
                ... have to think about this.

                To Jeff: Yup, I did hang next to a dead tree after swapping end-trees.
                I think each situation is unique. Dense woods and thus low wind. I
                looked the dead tree over and was pretty comfortable that I had
                un-loaded it soon enough that it would remain standing. Besides, it
                was getting late ... <grin> Your overall point is a good one of course!



                Brian
              • focusonchef
                ... stuff sack to keep the underpad in as part of the system. Works great, saves some hassle. Hi Brian Thanks for the excellent reflections of your experiences
                Message 7 of 30 , Aug 12, 2006
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Lewis" <brianle@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Using the supershelter system I'm still really enjoying a compression
                  stuff sack to keep the underpad in as part of the system. Works
                  great, saves some hassle.

                  Hi Brian
                  Thanks for the excellent reflections of your experiences on your last trip. I have 3 HH
                  asyms (wife, daughter and me). We have used them in relatively "warm" conditions (down
                  to 14C/33F) and had to use the Supershelter underpads. My question relates to the
                  underpad. Did you roll it up and put it in the compression sac or just randomly "stuff" it in?


                  BTW when setting up 3 hammocks, I find it is sometimes a bit of a stretch to find a
                  suitable site for 3 hammocks close enough together (our daughter is 3 and gets a little
                  nervous if we're too far away). On our last trip (we're seakayakers), one afternoon, I spent
                  ages finding a terrific site where I was able to set the hammocks up in a triangle. My wife
                  and I put our little one to bed and sat in front of a fire with quite a few nice mugs of wine.
                  Just before retiring, we looked up and discovered (like you did) that one tree was dead!!! In
                  our less than perfectly sober state, we decided to camp on the sand next to our daughter's
                  hammock. Luckily our daughter's hammock wasn't attached to the dead tree. In the
                  morning, our aching bones reminded us why we love our hammocks!

                  Cheers
                  Leo
                • jack_tier
                  ... from a ... State ... inside as ... lightweight ... brought ... thermometer ... my ... extended ... ccf ...). ... low. A ... -- ... out ... slower ...
                  Message 8 of 30 , Aug 13, 2006
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Lewis" <brianle@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm a fairly new hammock camper, and I just came back (Tuesday)
                    from a
                    > 10-day (150 mile) trip on the Pacific Crest Trail in Washington
                    State
                    > that I did with a couple of "dirt campers" (solo tent dwellers).
                    >
                    > I used my HH UL backpacker asym, with the supershelter system
                    > (undercover and underpad). I brought a 54" long ccf pad for
                    inside as
                    > well to hopefully ensure sufficient warmth, and I have a
                    lightweight
                    > down bag rated at 32 degrees that I used as a blanket. I also
                    brought
                    > a space blanket for optional use in between the layers.
                    >
                    > Lowest temperatures were somewhere in the 30's. My cheap
                    thermometer
                    > told me it never got below the low 40's inside the hammock (I hung
                    > this from the ridgeline inside). Only a couple of the nights were
                    > cold, but my 54" long ccf pad wasn't long enough, so I sacrificed
                    my
                    > shoulder area (wore more clothes there) to ensure the ccf pad
                    extended
                    > to my feet (and I just yesterday bought a longer and wider
                    ccf ...).
                    > Feet and butt were coldest. No real problems, but I did satisfy
                    > myself that the space blanket really does help when temps are
                    low. A
                    > standard space blanket, btw, also has the same problem my pad did -
                    --
                    > too wide but not long enough. Kind of a hassle to put in and take
                    out
                    > the space blanket each night too.
                    >
                    > Speaking of which, my total setup time is still substantially
                    slower
                    > than my dirt camper friends. Tear-down is just as fast, but
                    > estimating or measuring space between trees (to decide how high to
                    > hang), maybe clearly some sticks etc from the ground area, getting
                    > straps sized to trees (I carry two sets of two sizes), getting
                    things
                    > level, getting things taut, etc etc always took me longer. I might
                    > continue to get a little faster at this, but I think my setup time
                    > will just flat be slower than for pitching a tent. So be it.
                    >
                    > Hiking with dirt campers made me a little concerned about finding
                    good
                    > hanging spots nearby, but in none of the ten nights did I have any
                    > significant problems. Sometimes I was a bit farther from camp-
                    central
                    > than others, but no worries. OTOH, it was very handy some nights
                    > that I had a hammock as we sometimes struggled to even find two
                    flat
                    > spots for their solo tents at some of the sites.
                    >
                    > On my last night out I was pretty confident and setup with no
                    problems
                    > until I sat on the hammock to tighten up knots/etc ... and realized
                    > that one of the trees I had tied to was dead (all the bark was
                    there,
                    > this wasn't immediately obvious). The way I found this out was
                    that
                    > the tree started to give way (my way). I hopped off/out quick
                    enough
                    > that it didn't come down and I didn't even have to move much, as
                    > another nearby tree offered an alternate anchor point close enough.
                    >
                    > That same night I had a big rock with the remains of a small tree
                    > stump poking up about where I ended up handing, and thought I had
                    hung
                    > high enough to avoid issues. Nope. At some point I realized this
                    > somewhat pointy tree stumplet was poking me in the back/side.
                    Whacked
                    > on it in the dark with a big rock, raised my foot end slightly
                    higher
                    > and tightened cords and that solved it.
                    >
                    > Using the supershelter system I'm still really enjoying a
                    compression
                    > stuff sack to keep the underpad in as part of the system. Works
                    > great, saves some hassle.
                    >
                    > Overall most nights the weather was surprisingly warm and dry (no
                    > dew), to the point that I finally stopped putting up my tarp and
                    left
                    > my bag in its stuff sack hanging just outside the hammock until
                    maybe
                    > 2 am or so. This isn't what I consider typical for the pacific
                    > northwest! A little warm underneath, but I left the undercover
                    and
                    > underpad in place knowing things would get colder later in the
                    night.
                    >
                    > No major condensation problems, but always some with the ccf pad
                    in there.
                    >
                    > Trees are big here in the NW. I bought 72" straps from HH to
                    augment
                    > the 42" straps that come standard. Mixing and matching these
                    always
                    > got me through. I use the standard HH wrap on one end, and a
                    figure 8
                    > and tautline hitch on the other (the figure 8 loop helps me quickly
                    > figure out which end is which when pulling the hammock out of the
                    > compression sack). On the tautline hitch side, sizing the
                    strapping
                    > to the tree is easier because if it comes out a little long I just
                    run
                    > one end of the strap through the other and tie off to that. This
                    > solution doesn't work well with the HH wrap/knot.
                    >
                    > I had been having trouble with a sort of crick in the small of my
                    back
                    > on earlier trips. I had very little of this after the first
                    couple of
                    > days on this trip. Dunno if I just got over it, got used to it, or
                    > was so tired I didn't notice it! <g> The hammock system worked
                    > fine, with setup/tinker time and temperature control the biggest
                    > issues. I didn't encounter enough rain to comment on. I did have
                    a
                    > very windy night, and my dirt-camper-constrained location wasn't
                    in an
                    > ideal direction to the wind at that site. Weighting the side
                    corners
                    > of the tarp made a big difference; I just wrapped a mini-bungy cord
                    > around a piece of volcanic rock for both sides and hung them from
                    the
                    > supplied plastic hooks. The noise of the flapping tarp would
                    > otherwise have been pretty annoying.
                    >
                    > I originally was willing to try the HH based on the low weight of
                    the
                    > base hammock, just under 2 pounds. I reckon, however, that by the
                    > time I add up all the hammock-specific crap I'm carrying I've lost
                    the
                    > weight battle substantially ... hammock + standard tarp +
                    undercover +
                    > underpad + two sets of straps + compression stuff sack weigh 3-1/4
                    > pounds. Add in a space blanket, a ccf pad, light stakes, mini-
                    biners,
                    > an optional tyvek ground cloth in case I have to pitch as a ground
                    > tent, maybe a line level, maybe the HH funnels for rainy nights,
                    and
                    > the total comes to over four pounds. My bivy sack + a
                    thermarest
                    > come out at 3 pounds.
                    >
                    > The flexibility of setting up just about anywhere tilts me to
                    accept
                    > the extra pound. Grumblingly. <g>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Brian Lewis
                    >
                    > P.S. Someone asked the weight of the standard HH fly (tarp) alone.
                    > Mine is 7.6 ounces. That counts the thin plastic bag I carry it
                    in,
                    > but I think that's almost negligible.
                    >

                    Brian,

                    There is little reason for a three season hammock set up to 30-35
                    degrees to weigh over 2.5 - 3 pounds....read the archive here and on
                    www.whiteblaze.net in the hammock forum....there ares several
                    alternatives to your approach...

                    Pan
                  • Brian Lewis
                    Leo said: I have 3 HH asyms (wife, daughter and me). We have used them in relatively warm conditions (down to 14C/33F) and had to use the Supershelter
                    Message 9 of 30 , Aug 13, 2006
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                      Leo said: "I have 3 HH asyms (wife, daughter and me). We have used
                      them in relatively "warm" conditions (down to 14C/33F) and had to use
                      the Supershelter underpads. My question relates to the underpad. Did
                      you roll it up and put it in the compression sac or just randomly
                      "stuff" it in?"

                      Hi Leo. I leave the underpad installed and "randomly stuff it all in"
                      to the compression sack, then compress 'er down. Fits nicely into my
                      backpack, less tedium setting up the next night. It's possible that
                      this will add a little to wear and tear on the underpad over time;
                      hard to say without running a control experiement (i.e., someone else
                      doing the same trips and removing and rolling up the underpad). I do
                      store the underpad uncompressed under my bed at home.

                      The more I hear from other supershelter users about cold temperature
                      experiences the better. I'm still not satisfied with my ccf pad
                      inside, but didn't feel consistently warm enough without it on colder
                      nights. I just bought a longer/wider ccf pad (72" x 24") from REI and
                      spent time yesterday trimming and cutting dags into it so it wouldn't
                      bunch up on the sides too much, but this is just awkward. Come
                      wintertime I'll pick a dry day and go out in the backyard and do some
                      more experimenting ... I'd love it if I could put all my "warmth
                      stuff" between the layers as HH seems to intend, but I'm not confident
                      that can really retain the warmth. Maybe I'll pick a clear cold and
                      *windy* day to test stuff out. In November or December.

                      BTW, thanks to Rosaleen for the tip yesterday --- it was easier than I
                      expected to move one of those plastic HH hooks to the other side of
                      the mesh pocket on my ridgeline!

                      And a tip for those using a space blanket with an HH undercover: on
                      the trail I had concluded that I would need two space blankets for
                      full coverage. Laying it out on my living room carpet I found that I
                      could get enough coveage by using the diagonal of just the one space
                      blanket, and cut away some unneeded materal on the other two corners,
                      slightly lightening it, reducing the material to deal with, and
                      hopefully making it easier to figure out and manipulate when I use it
                      again.



                      Brian
                    • Brian Lewis
                      Pan said: There is little reason for a three season hammock set up to 30-35 degrees to weigh over 2.5 - 3 pounds....read the archive here and on
                      Message 10 of 30 , Aug 13, 2006
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                        Pan said:
                        "There is little reason for a three season hammock set up to 30-35
                        degrees to weigh over 2.5 - 3 pounds....read the archive here and on
                        www.whiteblaze.net in the hammock forum....there ares several
                        alternatives to your approach..."

                        Thanks Pan. But could you offer a couple of clues to what you think I
                        should be doing instead? Before I ever posted here I read quite a bit
                        through the archives, and I have read what stuff I could find that
                        seemed to relate on the AT site as well, plus Sgt. Rock, the HH site
                        of course, etc etc.

                        Alternatives that involve starting over with another hammock type
                        (Speer or whatever) don't seem reasonable to me given what I have
                        invested in both money and learning curve. I've read about DAMs,
                        Speer pad holders, etc etc. I'm focused here on the "keeping the
                        underside warm", as my 32 degree down bag used as a blanket is working
                        great. Despite what the HH site says, and despite being a normally
                        "warm sleeper" (my wife likes to heat up her side of the bed a whole
                        lot more than I do in winter), parts of me got cold when temps were in
                        the 30's where I got off the ccf pad inside.

                        If someone is willing to interact and suggests specifics to try, that
                        would be wonderful. I do appreciate the generic feedback you gave,
                        but just don't know quite what to do with it ...

                        I'll also suggest, btw, that there could be an issue with what people
                        are counting as part of the total weight --- perhaps I'm including
                        something that others might not count in your 2.5 to 3 pound suggested
                        range? Here's exactly what I'm carrying that I consider
                        "hammock-specific":

                        HH asym backpacker Hammock w/undercover, underpad, 72" & 36" straps in
                        lightweight compression sack: 44.6 oz

                        Hammock tarp, carried separately in a thin plastic bag: 7.6 oz

                        Trimmed space blanket: 1.3 oz

                        72" x 24" trimmed blue close celled foam REI sleeping pad: 9.1 oz

                        4 light stakes and 3 microbiners: 1.7 oz

                        tyvek ground cloth in case I must pitch on the ground: 1.4 oz

                        HH funnels and mesh in a ziplock: 0.8 oz

                        Line level: 0.5 oz (with more experience I may drop this)

                        This all sums to 66.9 ounces, or 4.2 pounds. To put this in
                        perspective, my total base pack weight (no food or water) is 18 pounds.

                        To put it in another perspective, just the standard HH asym backpacker
                        and the HH underpad and undercover alone weigh just over 3 pounds,
                        that's without stakes or any other sort of underneath insulation.
                        That sort of implies that what you're telling me is that I should go
                        with some other hammock system entirely ... ?!?

                        I really don't intend any sarcasm or anything like that here; if
                        there's something I'm missing, I'd love to learn it.


                        Brian
                      • tim garner
                        brian... i`m sure pan & others will get back w/ you (the`re probably out in the woods & i`m not), but he is part owner of a company called jacksrbetter .
                        Message 11 of 30 , Aug 13, 2006
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                          brian... i`m sure pan & others will get back w/ you (the`re probably out in the woods & i`m not), but he is part owner of a company called "jacksrbetter". they make down underquilts & lots of other neat stuff. a lot of it is made to work w/ the HH. you should be able to find that site w/ google. ...tim

                          Brian Lewis <brianle@...> wrote: Pan said:
                          "There is little reason for a three season hammock set up to 30-35
                          degrees to weigh over 2.5 - 3 pounds....read the archive here and on
                          www.whiteblaze.net in the hammock forum....there ares several
                          alternatives to your approach..."

                          Thanks Pan. But could you offer a couple of clues to what you think I
                          should be doing instead? Before I ever posted here I read quite a bit
                          through the archives, and I have read what stuff I could find that
                          seemed to relate on the AT site as well, plus Sgt. Rock, the HH site
                          of course, etc etc.

                          Alternatives that involve starting over with another hammock type
                          (Speer or whatever) don't seem reasonable to me given what I have
                          invested in both money and learning curve. I've read about DAMs,
                          Speer pad holders, etc etc. I'm focused here on the "keeping the
                          underside warm", as my 32 degree down bag used as a blanket is working
                          great. Despite what the HH site says, and despite being a normally
                          "warm sleeper" (my wife likes to heat up her side of the bed a whole
                          lot more than I do in winter), parts of me got cold when temps were in
                          the 30's where I got off the ccf pad inside.

                          If someone is willing to interact and suggests specifics to try, that
                          would be wonderful. I do appreciate the generic feedback you gave,
                          but just don't know quite what to do with it ...

                          I'll also suggest, btw, that there could be an issue with what people
                          are counting as part of the total weight --- perhaps I'm including
                          something that others might not count in your 2.5 to 3 pound suggested
                          range? Here's exactly what I'm carrying that I consider
                          "hammock-specific":

                          HH asym backpacker Hammock w/undercover, underpad, 72" & 36" straps in
                          lightweight compression sack: 44.6 oz

                          Hammock tarp, carried separately in a thin plastic bag: 7.6 oz

                          Trimmed space blanket: 1.3 oz

                          72" x 24" trimmed blue close celled foam REI sleeping pad: 9.1 oz

                          4 light stakes and 3 microbiners: 1.7 oz

                          tyvek ground cloth in case I must pitch on the ground: 1.4 oz

                          HH funnels and mesh in a ziplock: 0.8 oz

                          Line level: 0.5 oz (with more experience I may drop this)

                          This all sums to 66.9 ounces, or 4.2 pounds. To put this in
                          perspective, my total base pack weight (no food or water) is 18 pounds.

                          To put it in another perspective, just the standard HH asym backpacker
                          and the HH underpad and undercover alone weigh just over 3 pounds,
                          that's without stakes or any other sort of underneath insulation.
                          That sort of implies that what you're telling me is that I should go
                          with some other hammock system entirely ... ?!?

                          I really don't intend any sarcasm or anything like that here; if
                          there's something I'm missing, I'd love to learn it.


                          Brian










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                        • Jeff
                          Brian, I ve never used the Undercover and Underpad, but I understand that many people are warm to about 50F with that system as their only bottom insulation.
                          Message 12 of 30 , Aug 13, 2006
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                            Brian,

                            I've never used the Undercover and Underpad, but I understand that
                            many people are warm to about 50F with that system as their only
                            bottom insulation. By contrast, for about the same weight, you could
                            use only the JRB Nest that Pan sells and be comfortable into the 30s.
                            Or a Speer pad extender and CCF pads for a more inexpensive route -
                            about the same weight as the HH system and you shouldn't have a
                            problem being warm into the 30s.

                            Not really knocking the HH system - as I said I don't have any direct
                            experience with it - I just haven't seen many people confirm that it's
                            good to much below 50 F. And for that weight, other systems can
                            likely get you another 10-20 degrees of warmth.

                            JMO.

                            Jeff
                          • Rat
                            I agree with Jeff, lighter alternatives are out there. However, to begine with, The HH isn t the lightest hammock. So, if your PRIMARY concern is weight, then
                            Message 13 of 30 , Aug 13, 2006
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                              I agree with Jeff, lighter alternatives are out there. However, to
                              begine with, The HH isn't the lightest hammock. So, if your PRIMARY
                              concern is weight, then yes, you need to re-evaluate your hammock
                              choice. HH isn't the lightest, just easier to set up, less of a
                              learning curve than some others and all an in one package. But not
                              lighter.

                              Many times I find people comparing their old superlight 1.1 sil-nyl
                              tarp shelters to HH Exped Asym. But that isn't fair to either
                              system, they are totaly different material. Getting a hammock to
                              within a few ounces of a trap system is possible, but you must
                              compare apples to apples.

                              Really, the only difference is that you are gonna need to carry a
                              little more insulation for under the hammock. But, if done
                              correctly, that also can be within a few ounces of a thick pad and
                              bag of the same temp rating.

                              But then again, I'm not a lightnic, comfort and durability are for
                              me. My sytem is light enough for me and, it's bomb-proof!

                              Rat

                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <jwj32542@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Brian,
                              >
                              > I've never used the Undercover and Underpad, but I understand that
                              > many people are warm to about 50F with that system as their only
                              > bottom insulation. By contrast, for about the same weight, you
                              could
                              > use only the JRB Nest that Pan sells and be comfortable into the
                              30s.
                              > Or a Speer pad extender and CCF pads for a more inexpensive route -

                              > about the same weight as the HH system and you shouldn't have a
                              > problem being warm into the 30s.
                              >
                              > Not really knocking the HH system - as I said I don't have any
                              direct
                              > experience with it - I just haven't seen many people confirm that
                              it's
                              > good to much below 50 F. And for that weight, other systems can
                              > likely get you another 10-20 degrees of warmth.
                              >
                              > JMO.
                              >
                              > Jeff
                              >
                            • Brian Lewis
                              Jeff said: I ve never used the Undercover and Underpad, but I understand that many people are warm to about 50F with that system as their only bottom
                              Message 14 of 30 , Aug 14, 2006
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                                Jeff said:
                                "I've never used the Undercover and Underpad, but I understand that
                                many people are warm to about 50F with that system as their only
                                bottom insulation. By contrast, for about the same weight, you could
                                use only the JRB Nest that Pan sells and be comfortable into the 30s.
                                Or a Speer pad extender and CCF pads for a more inexpensive route -
                                about the same weight as the HH system and you shouldn't have a
                                problem being warm into the 30s.
                                Not really knocking the HH system - as I said I don't have any direct
                                experience with it - I just haven't seen many people confirm that it's
                                good to much below 50 F. And for that weight, other systems can
                                likely get you another 10-20 degrees of warmth."

                                Thanks, Jeff. I guess I too am looking to hear from anyone that can
                                confirm the sort of stats that the HH site gives for what their system
                                should do. For $240 I can buy the JRB Nest and hopefully that would
                                do what I thought I was getting for $130 from the HH supershelter
                                (read the arctic test on the HH site and tell me that isn't implying
                                the supershelter is good down to very low temps ...). Assuming that
                                the JRB nest really did keep me warm enough, I'd save a net of maybe 4
                                ounces, and perhaps have a simpler system.

                                Given that the supershelter doesn't seem to really cut it at cold
                                temps (?), I'm naturally leery of spending yet more money at this
                                point on something else that promises to do so ... (!)

                                The issue I have with the Speer pad extender is that I just don't
                                think it's going to be as comfortable; I'd really like to do without a
                                ccf pad that I lay on directly inside the hammock.

                                I suppose I could order a second underpad from HH for $30 (and 5.5
                                more ounces) and see if that added enough warmth. Or maybe I can just
                                get some open-celled foam from a local fabric store. Reading the
                                supershelter reviews on backpackgeartest.org, they talk about their
                                testing being delayed until HH shipped them separate hip and kidney
                                insulation pieces. Such items are not for sale on the HH site ...

                                I'm going to defer deciding about all of this until winter time when
                                it will be easy for me to test typical "three season low temps" in the
                                convenience of my backyard and try out various possibilities.
                                Hmm, then maybe I'll submit an owner review to augment what's on
                                backpackgeartest.org ...


                                Brian
                              • Rick
                                Jeff Wrote:. ... Amen Brother! Risk
                                Message 15 of 30 , Aug 14, 2006
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                                  Jeff Wrote:.
                                  >
                                  > Just a thought. I don't hang that close to dead trees.
                                  >
                                  > Jeff
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Amen Brother!

                                  Risk
                                • tim garner
                                  rick... how`s that leg doing? is using the hammock getting easyer? Rick wrote: Jeff Wrote:. ... Amen Brother! Risk Yahoo! Groups Links don`t
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Aug 14, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    rick... how`s that leg doing? is using the hammock getting easyer?

                                    Rick <ra1@...> wrote: Jeff Wrote:.
                                    >
                                    > Just a thought. I don't hang that close to dead trees.
                                    >
                                    > Jeff
                                    >
                                    >
                                    Amen Brother!

                                    Risk




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                                  • Rick
                                    ... I m 5-1/2 weeks out from the fibular fracture. I am now walking up to a mile and a half and having only slight tenderness in my leg. I can t climb a
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Aug 14, 2006
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                                      tim garner wrote:
                                      > rick... how`s that leg doing? is using the hammock getting easyer?
                                      >

                                      I'm 5-1/2 weeks out from the fibular fracture. I am now walking up to a
                                      mile and a half and having only slight tenderness in my leg. I can't
                                      climb a ladder because I can not push myself up with my left forefoot,
                                      and I can not run. I took my first woods dayhike this last Saturday,
                                      about a mile and a half. I am now able to take a nap in the hammock,
                                      though I have not yet tried to sleep a whole night. Trying a night out
                                      again sounds like a good idea now that you mention it.

                                      Thanks for asking.

                                      Rick
                                    • Joe
                                      Brian, I too had become dissatisfied with sleeping on a CCF pad inside my hammock. After a lot of reading and contemplation about the various insulation
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Aug 22, 2006
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                                        Brian, I too had become dissatisfied with sleeping on a CCF pad
                                        inside my hammock. After a lot of reading and contemplation about the
                                        various insulation systems which would fit my HH, I ordered the HH
                                        undercover/pad, so I read with interest your thread on the HH system
                                        tonight. I am not sure it will keep me warm to the temperatures I may
                                        want to camp in, but I am likewise unsure about the other systems. I
                                        have read both good and bad reviews of the HH system's insulating
                                        ability. I have also read some good and bad reviews for both the JRB
                                        and the KAQ (the other systems I was contemplating) and don't in any
                                        way mean to knock them. I finally decided that the only way to know
                                        if it would work for me was to give it a try.

                                        The factors that influenced me to select the HH was the ability to
                                        leave the system attached when packing, which eliminates the need to
                                        adjust it every night, the weight (13 ounces), and also the cost of
                                        the system (I'm cheap).

                                        Before ordering the system I called and talked with Tom Hennessy
                                        about a few questions I had. One of my questions was if it was
                                        possible to add a second pad without compressing it too much if one
                                        pad was not sufficient to get down to the temperatures I wanted to
                                        reach. Tom expressed his belief that using a single pad, space
                                        blanket and spare clothing would work for most people, but said that
                                        using two pads would work if needed. He also mentioned that he does
                                        still have hip and torso pads available, which would be lighter, less
                                        bulky, and less expensive than a second pad. He is considering adding
                                        them to his web site as optional items. But, even adding another
                                        complete pad, the total weight of the system would only be 18.5
                                        ounces with a total cost under $155, so I am willing to experiment
                                        with it.

                                        If you develop any methods that you find improve your comfort range,
                                        please post them. I would be interested in hearing about them.
                                      • Jeff
                                        ... Could you please point me to the bad reviews of these two systems? I d be interested in reading them. I m also interested in how the extra pads work with
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Aug 23, 2006
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                                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jingram01@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > ...I have also read some good and bad reviews for both the JRB
                                          > and the KAQ...

                                          Could you please point me to the bad reviews of these two systems?
                                          I'd be interested in reading them.

                                          I'm also interested in how the extra pads work with the HH system, so
                                          if you go with that option then please post some good details on your
                                          results.

                                          Thanks!

                                          Jeff
                                        • Keith
                                          I m with Jeff, here - I d really like to see negative feedback on either of these products. As a matter of fact, I ve never seen actual reviews of either
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Aug 23, 2006
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                                            I'm with Jeff, here - I'd really like to see negative feedback on
                                            either of these products. As a matter of fact, I've never seen actual
                                            'reviews' of either quilt, except Jeff's. Thinking back, I don't know
                                            that I've ever seen a negative POST about either one. I'd like to
                                            read the other side of the issue, if it exists.


                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <jwj32542@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jingram01@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > ...I have also read some good and bad reviews for both the JRB
                                            > > and the KAQ...
                                            >
                                            > Could you please point me to the bad reviews of these two systems?
                                            > I'd be interested in reading them.
                                            >
                                            > I'm also interested in how the extra pads work with the HH system, so
                                            > if you go with that option then please post some good details on your
                                            > results.
                                            >
                                            > Thanks!
                                            >
                                            > Jeff
                                            >
                                          • tim garner
                                            backpackinglight.com has done reviews on the JRB hood & arms, but i don`t remember much if any thing negitive. i`m not sure if they reviewed other JRB stuff...
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Aug 23, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              backpackinglight.com has done reviews on the JRB hood & arms, but i don`t remember much if any thing negitive.
                                              i`m not sure if they reviewed other JRB stuff... i don`t remember. i`ll have to go back & look. ...tim



                                              Keith <pulse_0ptional@...> wrote:
                                              I'm with Jeff, here - I'd really like to see negative feedback on
                                              either of these products. As a matter of fact, I've never seen actual
                                              'reviews' of either quilt, except Jeff's. Thinking back, I don't know
                                              that I've ever seen a negative POST about either one. I'd like to
                                              read the other side of the issue, if it exists.
                                              .

                                              .


                                              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                                              ---------------------------------
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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Jeff
                                              ... don`t remember much if any thing negitive. ... remember. i`ll have to go back & look. ...tim BPL reviewed lots of JRB gear. The NS was ranked the
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Aug 23, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > backpackinglight.com has done reviews on the JRB hood & arms, but i
                                                don`t remember much if any thing negitive.
                                                > i`m not sure if they reviewed other JRB stuff... i don`t
                                                remember. i`ll have to go back & look. ...tim

                                                BPL reviewed lots of JRB gear. The NS was ranked the #1
                                                Unconventional Sleep System...among top bags, wearable gear, quilts,
                                                Big Agnes style bags, etc.

                                                http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-
                                                bin/backpackinglight/2006_unconventional_sleep_systems_review_summary.h
                                                tml

                                                Jeff
                                              • Joe
                                                ... so ... your ... Oops. My bad. I said something that is not true. I haven t read any bad reviews of JRB or KAQ. The only comments that I took to be
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Aug 23, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <jwj32542@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jingram01@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ...I have also read some good and bad reviews for both the JRB
                                                  > > and the KAQ...
                                                  >
                                                  > Could you please point me to the bad reviews of these two systems?
                                                  > I'd be interested in reading them.
                                                  >
                                                  > I'm also interested in how the extra pads work with the HH system,
                                                  so
                                                  > if you go with that option then please post some good details on
                                                  your
                                                  > results.
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks!
                                                  >
                                                  > Jeff
                                                  >
                                                  Oops. My bad. I said something that is not true. I haven't read any
                                                  bad "reviews" of JRB or KAQ. The only comments that I took to be
                                                  negative were ones that I read or heard from people who had
                                                  experienced some frustration in adjusting the quilts for a proper fit
                                                  or weren't able achieve comfort at temperatures as low as they had
                                                  hoped for. I have read nothing but good comments about the quality
                                                  and performance of these quilts. If I knew how to edit my post, I
                                                  would delete that sentence all together!

                                                  My apologies to the Jacks and Patrick. Please save your gas money. I
                                                  will kick my own butt. Saying something stupid is one of the reasons
                                                  I don't post often and I should never attempt to post late at night.

                                                  Jeff, for the present I have only ordered the basic undercover/pad
                                                  and am going to give it a try before considering any additional
                                                  insulation. Of course, I will be carrying my CCF pad just in case for
                                                  the first few cold weather trials.
                                                • Jeff
                                                  ... any ... fit ... No worries - I was just wondering if there was something out there I haven t seen yet. Getting a good fit _is_ the toughest part about
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Aug 23, 2006
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jingram01@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Oops. My bad. I said something that is not true. I haven't read
                                                    any
                                                    > bad "reviews" of JRB or KAQ. The only comments that I took to be
                                                    > negative were ones that I read or heard from people who had
                                                    > experienced some frustration in adjusting the quilts for a proper
                                                    fit
                                                    > or weren't able achieve comfort at temperatures as low as they had
                                                    > hoped for. I have read nothing but good comments about the quality
                                                    > and performance of these quilts. If I knew how to edit my post, I
                                                    > would delete that sentence all together!

                                                    No worries - I was just wondering if there was something out there I
                                                    haven't seen yet. Getting a good fit _is_ the toughest part about
                                                    underquilts so I can see where you're coming from. Still more
                                                    comfortable than CCF pads, IMO!!

                                                    Btw - this is an email-based list so you can't edit posts. And
                                                    don't worry about saying stupid things - this list is very forgiving
                                                    about mistakes. I've done a few stupid things here myself... :p

                                                    > Jeff, for the present I have only ordered the basic undercover/pad
                                                    > and am going to give it a try before considering any additional
                                                    > insulation. Of course, I will be carrying my CCF pad just in case
                                                    for
                                                    > the first few cold weather trials.

                                                    Good call on the extra pad no matter what you're testing. I haven't
                                                    heard of anyone actually using the extra HH pads except for the BGT
                                                    testers so the standard system must be satisfactory for most folks.
                                                    (At least the ones who post on the forums I read.) I guess they
                                                    just bring extra insulation when the temp drops lower than the
                                                    SuperShelter can handle.

                                                    Anyway, be sure to post again when you get some experience with it -
                                                    that's why we addicts keep coming back!

                                                    Jeff
                                                  • tim garner
                                                    oh yeah... i remember reading reviews about the no snivler, down sleves & hood on BPL.com. that`s a great set of gear. i hope to have that set one day.
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Aug 23, 2006
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      oh yeah... i remember reading reviews about the no snivler, down sleves & hood on BPL.com. that`s a great set of gear. i hope to have that set one day. mabey a set of down leg warmers too... for when your sitting there in your hammock w/ your legs hanging over the side. ...tim

                                                      Jeff <jwj32542@...> wrote: .
                                                      BPL reviewed lots of JRB gear. The NS was ranked the #1
                                                      Unconventional Sleep System...among top bags, wearable gear, quilts,
                                                      Big Agnes style bags, etc.

                                                      http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-
                                                      bin/backpackinglight/2006_unconventional_sleep_systems_review_summary.h
                                                      tml

                                                      Jeff





                                                      .

                                                      don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                                                      ---------------------------------
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                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • jack_tier
                                                      ... on ... think I ... bit ... site ... working ... whole ... were in ... that ... people ... suggested ... straps in ... pounds. ... backpacker ... go ...
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Aug 24, 2006
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Lewis" <brianle@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Pan said:
                                                        > "There is little reason for a three season hammock set up to 30-35
                                                        > degrees to weigh over 2.5 - 3 pounds....read the archive here and
                                                        on
                                                        > www.whiteblaze.net in the hammock forum....there ares several
                                                        > alternatives to your approach..."
                                                        >
                                                        > Thanks Pan. But could you offer a couple of clues to what you
                                                        think I
                                                        > should be doing instead? Before I ever posted here I read quite a
                                                        bit
                                                        > through the archives, and I have read what stuff I could find that
                                                        > seemed to relate on the AT site as well, plus Sgt. Rock, the HH
                                                        site
                                                        > of course, etc etc.
                                                        >
                                                        > Alternatives that involve starting over with another hammock type
                                                        > (Speer or whatever) don't seem reasonable to me given what I have
                                                        > invested in both money and learning curve. I've read about DAMs,
                                                        > Speer pad holders, etc etc. I'm focused here on the "keeping the
                                                        > underside warm", as my 32 degree down bag used as a blanket is
                                                        working
                                                        > great. Despite what the HH site says, and despite being a normally
                                                        > "warm sleeper" (my wife likes to heat up her side of the bed a
                                                        whole
                                                        > lot more than I do in winter), parts of me got cold when temps
                                                        were in
                                                        > the 30's where I got off the ccf pad inside.
                                                        >
                                                        > If someone is willing to interact and suggests specifics to try,
                                                        that
                                                        > would be wonderful. I do appreciate the generic feedback you gave,
                                                        > but just don't know quite what to do with it ...
                                                        >
                                                        > I'll also suggest, btw, that there could be an issue with what
                                                        people
                                                        > are counting as part of the total weight --- perhaps I'm including
                                                        > something that others might not count in your 2.5 to 3 pound
                                                        suggested
                                                        > range? Here's exactly what I'm carrying that I consider
                                                        > "hammock-specific":
                                                        >
                                                        > HH asym backpacker Hammock w/undercover, underpad, 72" & 36"
                                                        straps in
                                                        > lightweight compression sack: 44.6 oz
                                                        >
                                                        > Hammock tarp, carried separately in a thin plastic bag: 7.6 oz
                                                        >
                                                        > Trimmed space blanket: 1.3 oz
                                                        >
                                                        > 72" x 24" trimmed blue close celled foam REI sleeping pad: 9.1 oz
                                                        >
                                                        > 4 light stakes and 3 microbiners: 1.7 oz
                                                        >
                                                        > tyvek ground cloth in case I must pitch on the ground: 1.4 oz
                                                        >
                                                        > HH funnels and mesh in a ziplock: 0.8 oz
                                                        >
                                                        > Line level: 0.5 oz (with more experience I may drop this)
                                                        >
                                                        > This all sums to 66.9 ounces, or 4.2 pounds. To put this in
                                                        > perspective, my total base pack weight (no food or water) is 18
                                                        pounds.
                                                        >
                                                        > To put it in another perspective, just the standard HH asym
                                                        backpacker
                                                        > and the HH underpad and undercover alone weigh just over 3 pounds,
                                                        > that's without stakes or any other sort of underneath insulation.
                                                        > That sort of implies that what you're telling me is that I should
                                                        go
                                                        > with some other hammock system entirely ... ?!?
                                                        >
                                                        > I really don't intend any sarcasm or anything like that here; if
                                                        > there's something I'm missing, I'd love to learn it.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Brian
                                                        >

                                                        Brian,

                                                        Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site for a
                                                        couple of days.

                                                        My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
                                                        hammocks were heavy or at least heavier than your bivi set up. The
                                                        stock BUL and SS system you chose is heavier than some other HH and
                                                        several other hammocks. There are posts on Whiteblaze.net that
                                                        probably have 30-40 responses of different hammock set ups, many in
                                                        the 3-3.5 pound range for hammocks , tarps and bottoms insulation
                                                        adequate for 30-35 degree use.To answer you question on specific
                                                        alternative the HH Hyperlight will shave 10 oz from the BUL
                                                        approach, Speer models can come in lighter depending on material.
                                                        (personally Iuse a HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL
                                                        stakes , A JRB Nest under quilt w/Suspension system and it come to
                                                        exactly 48 os.) Others are lighter, Carol Crooker on BPL hammocked
                                                        in the 5 pound challege last year with her entire base pack under 5
                                                        pounds.

                                                        Looking over your post above, it appears that you are carrying 12 oz
                                                        or so of alternative gear, blue pad, space blanket, tyvek,funnels,
                                                        and also a line level...this makes your set up appear almost a pound
                                                        heavier.

                                                        Again, welcome to the hanging crowd.

                                                        Pan
                                                      • Brian Lewis
                                                        Pan wrote: Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site for a couple of days. My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Sep 1, 2006
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Pan wrote:
                                                          "Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site for a
                                                          couple of days.

                                                          My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
                                                          hammocks were heavy or at least heavier than your bivi set up. The
                                                          stock BUL and SS system you chose is heavier than some other HH and
                                                          several other hammocks. There are posts on Whiteblaze.net that
                                                          probably have 30-40 responses of different hammock set ups, many in
                                                          the 3-3.5 pound range for hammocks , tarps and bottoms insulation
                                                          adequate for 30-35 degree use.To answer you question on specific
                                                          alternative the HH Hyperlight will shave 10 oz from the BUL
                                                          approach, Speer models can come in lighter depending on material.
                                                          (personally Iuse a HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL
                                                          stakes , A JRB Nest under quilt w/Suspension system and it come to
                                                          exactly 48 os.) Others are lighter, Carol Crooker on BPL hammocked
                                                          in the 5 pound challege last year with her entire base pack under 5
                                                          pounds.

                                                          Looking over your post above, it appears that you are carrying 12 oz
                                                          or so of alternative gear, blue pad, space blanket, tyvek,funnels,
                                                          and also a line level...this makes your set up appear almost a pound
                                                          heavier."

                                                          =============================================================

                                                          Thanks, Pan. Ditto about delayed response; my wife and I just
                                                          finished hiking around Mt. Rainier on the Wonderland Trail (about 100
                                                          miles of all up-and-down). Sharing a tent, as my wife hasn't
                                                          converted, so I was back to dirt camping!

                                                          When I responded to you last time, I hadn't realized you were a gear
                                                          maker (JacksRBetter); I really appreciate folks like you and Ed and
                                                          others that respond to us gear *users*!

                                                          One thing that struck me in your suggested 2.5 to 3 pound range was
                                                          just simple math: my Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker is listed on the
                                                          Hennessy site as 1 pound 15 ounces. Your JRB Nest is listed at 20
                                                          ounces, plus another ounce for the stuff sack and I think another
                                                          ounce for the suspension system (? based on backpackgeartest review).
                                                          Those items then alone sum to 53 ounces --- 3.3 pounds ... that's
                                                          without including stakes to hold the sides out, or longer straps
                                                          (necessary in the NW).

                                                          I could have saved 7 oz (or maybe 10 depending on which HH specs you
                                                          read ...) by going with the hyperlite instead of ultralight; the
                                                          hyperlight is very new, however, and I generally prefer to let other
                                                          pioneers get the arrows in their backs <g>. If I were willing to pay
                                                          more for a hammock that I would guess would wear out faster, I could
                                                          indeed get that down to 2 pounds 14 ounces --- more like right at the
                                                          3 pound edge of your suggested range with necessary stakes and longer
                                                          straps (funnels optional at less than an ounce).

                                                          It looks to me that at this point I could save maybe 9 ounces over
                                                          what I'm doing now (without buying a new hammock) by replacing my
                                                          supershelter + foam pad + space blanket with a JRB nest, at the cost
                                                          of $240 more, but with hopefully a more comfortable and consistently
                                                          warm sleep --- assuming any underquilt will be sufficiently draft-free
                                                          (i.e., that gaps between underquilt and hammock body don't lose me the
                                                          warm dead air I need). And that I could keep the thing dry enough in
                                                          the pacific northwest to keep me reliably warm. And that I never had
                                                          to pitch the hammock on the ground.

                                                          Come late fall or winter I'll try out some options with my
                                                          supershelter first, and if I just can't make that reasonably work in
                                                          lower temps, I might indeed become another JRB customer! Or maybe a
                                                          KAQ customer, accepting more weight for a synthetic that hopefully
                                                          would keep me warm even if wet (?).

                                                          I was interested in the setup that you mentioned above, and wonder if
                                                          you could expand a couple of the abbreviations (please):

                                                          "HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL stakes , A JRB Nest
                                                          under quilt w/Suspension system" that you said comes out to exactly 48
                                                          ounces.

                                                          HH ELR is what? The Hennessy Explorer Ultralight A-Sym is listed at 2
                                                          pounds 7 ounces (39 ounces), so that can't be it, unless you're
                                                          somehow saving a lot of weight on an alternate (but bigger?) fly. I'm
                                                          not sure what an STL is; I presume 8x8 refers to some alternative fly
                                                          you're using. ti UL stakes are likely light weight (ti == titanium)
                                                          stakes.

                                                          Again, I'm truly not meaning to be critical or negative or anything,
                                                          just trying to understand --- if a JRB nest with stuff sack and
                                                          suspension system is 22 ounces, then 48 - 22 = 26 ounces for your
                                                          hammock with alternate fly and stakes. That might work if ELR is a
                                                          strange abbreviation for Hyperlite ...


                                                          Brian Lewis
                                                        • Brian Lewis
                                                          Thanks for the feedback, Joe. I sure wish I had read more here and elsewhere before going with the Supershelter; if you or others have tips (I hope you ll be
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Sep 1, 2006
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Thanks for the feedback, Joe. I sure wish I had read more here and
                                                            elsewhere before going with the Supershelter; if you or others have
                                                            tips (I hope you'll be experimenting more too), I'll eagerly read and
                                                            try 'em. I think that before I send more money to HH I'll see if I
                                                            can't find some local source of open-celled-foam. Two pieces of such
                                                            foam have a lot of friction so I would expect a piece put on top of
                                                            the foam that came with the supershelter would stay put without more
                                                            cordage, or maybe just a little velcro or something.

                                                            I'm not sure that "hip and torso" pads are exactly what I need. My
                                                            feet got cold; I'd definitely try to add some foam at the foot end.
                                                            Yes to "Hips" (I'd say "butt"), as that's where a lot of pressure is
                                                            --- asym or not, that part sags down some. At $30 and 5.5 ounces
                                                            more, I might indeed just end up ordering a second underpad. A little
                                                            frustrating to have to guess at all of this.

                                                            Spare clothing doesn't work for me; as a trying-to-be-light hiker, I
                                                            have darned few pieces of "spare" clothing, especially on a cold
                                                            night. When it's cold I'll be wearing (in the hammock) both my
                                                            lighter and heavier pairs of outer socks, warm hat,
                                                            sweater/fleece/whatever (I use a Montbell UL Thermawrap) --- this
                                                            allows me to camp with a darned light sleeping bag (20 ounces). About
                                                            all I have for "spare clothes" at that point are a change of underwear
                                                            and spare liner socks plus thin mittens. Which I use in my sleeping
                                                            bag stuff sack under my neck (all the pillow I need).

                                                            I can't help but think that maybe I'm just doing something
                                                            fundamentally wrong with the supershelter; I'm not a person that needs
                                                            a really warm bed at night. But there doesn't seem to be much room to
                                                            misinterpret how to assemble and use the supershelter system, and it
                                                            all looks right. Dunno.

                                                            If I figure anything out this fall/winter when I do some at-home
                                                            testing, I'll certainly post my results.



                                                            Brian Lewis



                                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jingram01@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Brian, I too had become dissatisfied with sleeping on a CCF pad
                                                            > inside my hammock. After a lot of reading and contemplation about the
                                                            > various insulation systems which would fit my HH, I ordered the HH
                                                            > undercover/pad, so I read with interest your thread on the HH system
                                                            > tonight. I am not sure it will keep me warm to the temperatures I may
                                                            > want to camp in, but I am likewise unsure about the other systems. I
                                                            > have read both good and bad reviews of the HH system's insulating
                                                            > ability. I have also read some good and bad reviews for both the JRB
                                                            > and the KAQ (the other systems I was contemplating) and don't in any
                                                            > way mean to knock them. I finally decided that the only way to know
                                                            > if it would work for me was to give it a try.
                                                            >
                                                            > The factors that influenced me to select the HH was the ability to
                                                            > leave the system attached when packing, which eliminates the need to
                                                            > adjust it every night, the weight (13 ounces), and also the cost of
                                                            > the system (I'm cheap).
                                                            >
                                                            > Before ordering the system I called and talked with Tom Hennessy
                                                            > about a few questions I had. One of my questions was if it was
                                                            > possible to add a second pad without compressing it too much if one
                                                            > pad was not sufficient to get down to the temperatures I wanted to
                                                            > reach. Tom expressed his belief that using a single pad, space
                                                            > blanket and spare clothing would work for most people, but said that
                                                            > using two pads would work if needed. He also mentioned that he does
                                                            > still have hip and torso pads available, which would be lighter, less
                                                            > bulky, and less expensive than a second pad. He is considering adding
                                                            > them to his web site as optional items. But, even adding another
                                                            > complete pad, the total weight of the system would only be 18.5
                                                            > ounces with a total cost under $155, so I am willing to experiment
                                                            > with it.
                                                            >
                                                            > If you develop any methods that you find improve your comfort range,
                                                            > please post them. I would be interested in hearing about them.
                                                            >
                                                          • jack_tier
                                                            ... for a ... oz ... pound ... 100 ... gear ... the ... review). ... you ... other ... pay ... could ... the ... longer ... cost ... consistently ... free ...
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Sep 2, 2006
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Lewis" <brianle@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Pan wrote:
                                                              > "Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site
                                                              for a
                                                              > couple of days.
                                                              >
                                                              > My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
                                                              > hammocks were heavy or at least heavier than your bivi set up. The
                                                              > stock BUL and SS system you chose is heavier than some other HH and
                                                              > several other hammocks. There are posts on Whiteblaze.net that
                                                              > probably have 30-40 responses of different hammock set ups, many in
                                                              > the 3-3.5 pound range for hammocks , tarps and bottoms insulation
                                                              > adequate for 30-35 degree use.To answer you question on specific
                                                              > alternative the HH Hyperlight will shave 10 oz from the BUL
                                                              > approach, Speer models can come in lighter depending on material.
                                                              > (personally Iuse a HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL
                                                              > stakes , A JRB Nest under quilt w/Suspension system and it come to
                                                              > exactly 48 os.) Others are lighter, Carol Crooker on BPL hammocked
                                                              > in the 5 pound challege last year with her entire base pack under 5
                                                              > pounds.
                                                              >
                                                              > Looking over your post above, it appears that you are carrying 12
                                                              oz
                                                              > or so of alternative gear, blue pad, space blanket, tyvek,funnels,
                                                              > and also a line level...this makes your set up appear almost a
                                                              pound
                                                              > heavier."
                                                              >
                                                              > =============================================================
                                                              >
                                                              > Thanks, Pan. Ditto about delayed response; my wife and I just
                                                              > finished hiking around Mt. Rainier on the Wonderland Trail (about
                                                              100
                                                              > miles of all up-and-down). Sharing a tent, as my wife hasn't
                                                              > converted, so I was back to dirt camping!
                                                              >
                                                              > When I responded to you last time, I hadn't realized you were a
                                                              gear
                                                              > maker (JacksRBetter); I really appreciate folks like you and Ed and
                                                              > others that respond to us gear *users*!
                                                              >
                                                              > One thing that struck me in your suggested 2.5 to 3 pound range was
                                                              > just simple math: my Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker is listed on
                                                              the
                                                              > Hennessy site as 1 pound 15 ounces. Your JRB Nest is listed at 20
                                                              > ounces, plus another ounce for the stuff sack and I think another
                                                              > ounce for the suspension system (? based on backpackgeartest
                                                              review).
                                                              > Those items then alone sum to 53 ounces --- 3.3 pounds ... that's
                                                              > without including stakes to hold the sides out, or longer straps
                                                              > (necessary in the NW).
                                                              >
                                                              > I could have saved 7 oz (or maybe 10 depending on which HH specs
                                                              you
                                                              > read ...) by going with the hyperlite instead of ultralight; the
                                                              > hyperlight is very new, however, and I generally prefer to let
                                                              other
                                                              > pioneers get the arrows in their backs <g>. If I were willing to
                                                              pay
                                                              > more for a hammock that I would guess would wear out faster, I
                                                              could
                                                              > indeed get that down to 2 pounds 14 ounces --- more like right at
                                                              the
                                                              > 3 pound edge of your suggested range with necessary stakes and
                                                              longer
                                                              > straps (funnels optional at less than an ounce).
                                                              >
                                                              > It looks to me that at this point I could save maybe 9 ounces over
                                                              > what I'm doing now (without buying a new hammock) by replacing my
                                                              > supershelter + foam pad + space blanket with a JRB nest, at the
                                                              cost
                                                              > of $240 more, but with hopefully a more comfortable and
                                                              consistently
                                                              > warm sleep --- assuming any underquilt will be sufficiently draft-
                                                              free
                                                              > (i.e., that gaps between underquilt and hammock body don't lose me
                                                              the
                                                              > warm dead air I need). And that I could keep the thing dry
                                                              enough in
                                                              > the pacific northwest to keep me reliably warm. And that I never
                                                              had
                                                              > to pitch the hammock on the ground.
                                                              >
                                                              > Come late fall or winter I'll try out some options with my
                                                              > supershelter first, and if I just can't make that reasonably work
                                                              in
                                                              > lower temps, I might indeed become another JRB customer! Or maybe
                                                              a
                                                              > KAQ customer, accepting more weight for a synthetic that hopefully
                                                              > would keep me warm even if wet (?).
                                                              >
                                                              > I was interested in the setup that you mentioned above, and wonder
                                                              if
                                                              > you could expand a couple of the abbreviations (please):
                                                              >
                                                              > "HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL stakes , A JRB Nest
                                                              > under quilt w/Suspension system" that you said comes out to
                                                              exactly 48
                                                              > ounces.
                                                              >
                                                              > HH ELR is what? The Hennessy Explorer Ultralight A-Sym is listed
                                                              at 2
                                                              > pounds 7 ounces (39 ounces), so that can't be it, unless you're
                                                              > somehow saving a lot of weight on an alternate (but bigger?) fly.
                                                              I'm
                                                              > not sure what an STL is; I presume 8x8 refers to some alternative
                                                              fly
                                                              > you're using. ti UL stakes are likely light weight (ti ==
                                                              titanium)
                                                              > stakes.
                                                              >
                                                              > Again, I'm truly not meaning to be critical or negative or
                                                              anything,
                                                              > just trying to understand --- if a JRB nest with stuff sack and
                                                              > suspension system is 22 ounces, then 48 - 22 = 26 ounces for your
                                                              > hammock with alternate fly and stakes. That might work if ELR is
                                                              a
                                                              > strange abbreviation for Hyperlite ...
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > Brian Lewis
                                                              >
                                                              Brian,

                                                              Welcome back from your hike...condolances or the hard ground...least
                                                              you had great company.

                                                              HH ELR= HH Extreme Light Racer...the 20 oz racer that several of us
                                                              started using for all around backpacking....mine is in great shape
                                                              after 60 nights and many afternoons of set up ...test some gear ...
                                                              then tear down and repack etc...Medicine Man, frequent poster on
                                                              Whiteblaze.net, has had similiar experiance....this hammock minus
                                                              the fly of 7 oz or and including standard tree savers is 15
                                                              oz ....This hammock and its growing general purpose use by the UL
                                                              community is what led to the Hyper light....at $169 it is a lot less
                                                              money than the HL at $219...But you do get the little gear loft
                                                              pocket and a claim of more reliability for the HL (although they
                                                              both appear to have 1.1 oz nlyon bottoms). Believe it is an oz
                                                              lighter than the HL.

                                                              STL = Self Tensioning Lines...1 oz per pair of 9.5 foot lines.

                                                              8x8 = short hand for a JRB square tarp, no one else routinely makes
                                                              and sells this size, with a diagonal center seam that fits most
                                                              regular length hammocks.. it weighs 9.4 oz (which is about 2 oz more
                                                              than a stock HH BULA fly).

                                                              Hope this helps.... big trees, requiring longer staps, obviously
                                                              will add proportionately ...save your short ones ...when you come
                                                              east they will be useful and save a little... :-)

                                                              Pan
                                                            • Brian Lewis
                                                              Thanks, Pan. The ELR ( Light Racer A-Sym on the HH site) isn t something I even considered; the text on the HH site puts Recommended for racing only in
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Sep 3, 2006
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                                                                Thanks, Pan. The ELR ("Light Racer A-Sym" on the HH site) isn't
                                                                something I even considered; the text on the HH site puts "Recommended
                                                                for racing only" in bold text, says that durability is sacrificed for
                                                                weight, and that it has a limited one-year guarantee ... with the
                                                                majority of the text about it being those sorts of caveats ...

                                                                So I find it *very* interesting that you've already got 60 nights and
                                                                many test afternoons on yours and report that it's in great shape!


                                                                Brian Lewis
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