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A couple of theories

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  • Paul V.
    I have posted a couple of hammock theories on my webpage and would appreciate any comments. The first is that hammock characteristics based on length and width
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 18 5:52 PM
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      I have posted a couple of hammock theories on my webpage and would
      appreciate any comments.

      The first is that hammock characteristics based on length and width
      are proportional to the body height of the person using the hammock.
      If the theory is correct, then I can test different hammock sizes and
      report the results based on hammock sizes as a proportion of my body
      height, and any reader can use his own body height and get a
      meaningful result by calculating hammock sizes.

      The second is a method of making a hammock system that is easy to
      break down. It uses a hem and an accordian bundle at the end of the
      hammock, then a line is wrapped and knotted around the hammock end.
      On the tree side, a webbing tree hugger wraps the tree and a toggle is
      attached to the end of the tree hugger. A slip bowline is tied to the
      end of the hammock support line and put over the toggle.

      A better description is here:

      http://cruisenews.net/backpacking/HammockTheories.html

      I would like to hear any comments from those who are interested in
      this stuff.
    • jwj32542
      ... hammock. Most people agree that bigger hammocks are more comfortable because they let you lie flatter, so then the question becomes one of utility - at
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 19 8:38 AM
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        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Paul V." <cruisenewsnet@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > The first is that hammock characteristics based on length and width
        > are proportional to the body height of the person using the
        hammock.

        Most people agree that bigger hammocks are more comfortable because
        they let you lie flatter, so then the question becomes one of
        utility - at what point does weight/bulk cause you to limit the size
        for a backpacking hammock?

        Sounds like the theory will work...just seems to complicate the
        general rule of adding 2' to the user's heights when, for most
        hammocks, the difference will be only a few inches (and based
        entirely on personal preference).

        > The second is a method of making a hammock system that is easy to
        > break down.

        Sounds like this could be very useful. Some company makes "slap
        straps" that are nylon straps with loops sewn every foot or so, and
        to set up you just wrap it around the tree and connect to whichever
        loop gives you the right hang. With your toggle and some really
        light spectra, you could tie knots every foot or so and do the same
        thing. This would really speed setup and takedown, and would
        probably add only an ounce or so.

        > I would like to hear any comments from those who are interested in
        > this stuff.

        I like the design engineering approach some of you guys use! You,
        Dave, Pan, etc.

        On a webpage note, I like to link to the original post when I quote
        something on my pages - that way readers can click on the link and
        get the full context of the quote, including comments from others
        and a full discussion of the issue. It also helps when I get a new
        idea and want to go back to the original thread and see if anything
        else in that thread would help. I thought about this when I saw
        your quote from Joe - just a thought. Works for me...YMMV. :)

        Jeff
      • Dave Womble
        ... width ... size ... The height plus 2 foot can be a little tricky. A few inches can make a big deal and all hammock beds are not measured the same way. Ed
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 19 12:00 PM
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Paul V." <cruisenewsnet@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > The first is that hammock characteristics based on length and
          width
          > > are proportional to the body height of the person using the
          > hammock.
          >
          > Most people agree that bigger hammocks are more comfortable because
          > they let you lie flatter, so then the question becomes one of
          > utility - at what point does weight/bulk cause you to limit the
          size
          > for a backpacking hammock?
          >
          > Sounds like the theory will work...just seems to complicate the
          > general rule of adding 2' to the user's heights when, for most
          > hammocks, the difference will be only a few inches (and based
          > entirely on personal preference).
          >


          The height plus 2 foot can be a little tricky. A few inches can make
          a big deal and all hammock beds are not measured the same way. Ed
          Speer in his book measures his along the edges and is basically the
          amount of Velcro one uses to attach the bugnet. In practice
          the 'measured' edge might be an inch inside the knot of the finished
          hammock and the edge is shorten by the two inch ears on each end--
          when you add that up it means the length of the bed down the center
          of the hammock is likely 6 inches longer. I suspect most other
          hammock beds are measured by the length of the bed down the center of
          the hammock. Shoulder width and sensitity also enters into how long
          a particular individual might want their hammock. I like mine an
          extra 6 inches longer... so I use a 8.5 foot Speer that measures
          about 9 foot down the center of the hammock. And that is before it
          stretches another 6 inches or so from my weight. <grin> Also, don't
          forget that hammock sag plays a role in this as well. Sag adds
          comfort and relief from shoulder squeeze but a 'short' hammock might
          not be long enough to utilize enough sag since sag kind of 'shortens'
          a hammock.

          Dave
        • jack_tier
          ... and ... whichever ... same ... in ... I ve watched debates about biners, quick knots, slings etc go on for days on this and other sites....often they are
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 20 5:57 PM
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Paul V." <cruisenewsnet@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > The second is a method of making a hammock system that is easy to
            > > break down.
            >
            > Sounds like this could be very useful. Some company makes "slap
            > straps" that are nylon straps with loops sewn every foot or so,
            and
            > to set up you just wrap it around the tree and connect to
            whichever
            > loop gives you the right hang. With your toggle and some really
            > light spectra, you could tie knots every foot or so and do the
            same
            > thing. This would really speed setup and takedown, and would
            > probably add only an ounce or so.
            >
            > > I would like to hear any comments from those who are interested
            in
            > > this stuff.
            >
            > I like the design engineering approach some of you guys use! You,
            > Dave, Pan, etc.

            > Jeff
            >
            I've watched debates about biners, quick knots, slings etc go on
            for days on this and other sites....often they are confusing and
            frequently add the weight of biners or extra webbing loops or some
            other gimmick....the hammock itself is pretty light... some as light
            a 7 oz, 10 or 11 oz is common for basic models etc...the straps or
            cords frequently come close to matching that weight... personally,
            if weight is an issue, the simpler and shorter (but not too short
            for the expected area tree diameters) the suspension the better...

            Using some version of the Hennessy wrap or Ed's wrap takes only
            seconds per end... they never bind, because they are not true
            knots...I've probably tied up a hammock of one model or another over
            500 times...Never had a wrap fail...These wraps could not be much
            easier IMHO...

            I guess my take is that hanging hammocks is easy and practice or
            experience is the best accessory (cheapest too)...adding weight to
            save 10-30 seconds an end does not work for me.

            Tho these things look cool and I do review each of them I run across

            Pan
          • jwj32542
            ... I guess I agree. I think figured out a way to use a prussik to make an adjustable tree hugger for quicker connects and easy adjustments that won t add any
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 20 6:41 PM
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jack_tier" <jacktier@...>
              wrote:
              > I guess my take is that hanging hammocks is easy and practice or
              > experience is the best accessory (cheapest too)...adding weight to
              > save 10-30 seconds an end does not work for me.

              I guess I agree. I think figured out a way to use a prussik to make
              an adjustable tree hugger for quicker connects and easy adjustments
              that won't add any appreciable weight...but when I was about to buy
              the stuff, I didn't feel like paying so much for S&H just to save a
              few moments in setup. I almost did it just to see if it would work,
              though...I'm addicted that way.
            • Dave Womble
              ... Paul, I just quickly looked over that page and noticed that you were addressing condensation as being caused by certain things, ie I want to test to what
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 21 5:06 AM
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Paul V." <cruisenewsnet@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > http://cruisenews.net/backpacking/HammockTheories.html
                >
                > I would like to hear any comments from those who are interested in
                > this stuff.
                >

                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Paul V." <cruisenewsnet@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > http://cruisenews.net/backpacking/HammockTheories.html
                >
                > I would like to hear any comments from those who are interested in
                > this stuff.
                >
                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Paul V." <cruisenewsnet@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > http://cruisenews.net/backpacking/HammockTheories.html
                >
                > I would like to hear any comments from those who are interested in
                > this stuff.
                >

                Paul,

                I just quickly looked over that page and noticed that you were
                addressing condensation as being caused by certain things, ie "I want
                to test to what extent the pod (a full hammock enclosure made of
                nylon ripstop with zippers) causes condensation." I wonder if that
                is the best way to approach condensation issues. Condensation issues
                are not always simple. I was trying to think if I could remember a
                good reference describing all the ways that moisture or humid air can
                be generated and I drew a blank... I'm sure there are some and I may
                have read them but I can't recall them at the moment.

                It seems to me the first step would be to identify all the ways that
                moisture or humid air enters the environment to cause the
                condensation you are concerned with. Not all of it is always
                generated by the hammocker, sometimes it comes from rain, fog or even
                rises from the ground or plant life beneath us and you are right in
                that wind or even a slight breeze sometimes changes the whole
                dynamics of a situation as to what works well and what doesn't. The
                reason I bring this up is that in some cases your enclosed pod might
                be problematic and actually contribute to condensation issues while
                in other cases in might be a solution to condensation issues. Then
                there might be times when it doesn't make much difference at all in
                condensation issues.

                In some ways, your enclosed pod could be compared to a jacket. Most
                of us own light weight wind breakers, fleece jackets, rain jackets,
                etc. And rain jackets might be highly water resistant, waterproof
                and breathable or total vapor barriers. They might also have pit
                zips, hoods, draw-string closures at the waist, etc. So, if you were
                to go outside today, which one of your jackets would you take? Would
                you want to know what the conditions where before you decided, what
                you were going to be doing outside and how long you where going to be
                outside? Heck, you might not even want to consider waring a jacket,
                it might be 90F outside. The point I hope to make is the environment
                is not simple, when we go outdoors we have to adjust to our
                environment so it is best to understand what we have to work with.
                Then we have to realize what it does well and what it doesn't do well
                and then figure out how to best deal with what we have to deal with.

                I wouldn't look at it as an enclosed pod causes condensation, I would
                look at it as there are times when I don't want to use an enclosed
                pod because it contributes to condensation issues. To be honest,
                even something as highly breathable as bugnetting can contribute to
                condensation issues in the right (or should that be wrong)
                conditions, especially in small spaces. To be even more specific,
                even bugnetting used as a headnet can sometimes be too hot to use--
                even when hiking in a buggy environment... but when you stop and rest
                it might be the ticket to safe your sanity from annoying mosquitoes,
                black flies, etc... you might want to put on a long sleeve shirt and
                pants when you are resting as well. It will depend on how hot you
                are, how bad the bugs are, etc.

                Dave
              • Dawn Harkins
                ... one of your jackets would you take? ...The point...is the environment is not simple, when we go outdoors we ... This is very astute and a valuable
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 1, 2006
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                  --- Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:

                  > In some ways, your enclosed pod could be compared to
                  > a jacket...if you were to go outside today, which
                  one of your jackets would you take? ...The point...is
                  the environment is not simple, when we go outdoors we
                  > have to adjust to our environment...

                  This is very astute and a valuable observation for me,
                  Dave--thanks. I'll be keeping it mind as I play with
                  the many permutations of finding comfort in my
                  hammock.

                  My roommate just bought a new lighter-weight (~11 oz I
                  think) Thermarest, and I was admiring it but telling
                  him I wasn't getting one because I would mostly be
                  hammocking.

                  He said, "but don't you need a pad anyway?" This
                  elicited a flood of words from me--I started talking
                  fast, trying to tell a non-hammocker of all the
                  various conditions and solutions involved in
                  hammocking, lol. For example, I got the Hennessey
                  underthings and I'm going to be playing around with
                  very thin added foam pads, always trying to stay warm
                  enough while carrying light. Finally I just said,
                  "it's complicated--it just depends."

                  Keeps things interesting, doesn't it, when trying to
                  backpack light but wanting to be at least
                  semi-prepared for varying conditions. Sometimes, in
                  hot dry summer conditions, I don't bring much of
                  anything...I sort through my stuff as if stuff were
                  the enemy (which it is, weight-wise): "don't need
                  that, don't need this, don't need those..."

                  Dawn in Tahoe, where it snowed another foot last night
                  and I'm dreaming of spring

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