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Re: RE: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry

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  • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
    ... From: Michael Carter Date: Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:36 pm Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry ... Michael and Jeff, I
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Michael Carter <carterm@...>
      Date: Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:36 pm
      Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry

      > Brian,
      >
      > I hope you didn't get hurt too badly when your hammock failed.
      > I'm puzzled by this one. I don't understand why this would be any
      > different than the stiches used for the end loops,


      Michael and Jeff,

      I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
      pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at least
      the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
      them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was to
      blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I realized
      what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on the
      cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
      stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
      the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
      they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
      which should solve my water problem also.

      Brian
      T-BACK
    • tim garner
      brian... i can`t help but think that was just one of those unusual, hard to explain things. a line or two of stiching surly couldn`t weaken a webbing strap
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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        brian... i can`t help but think that was just one of those unusual, hard to explain things. a line or two of stiching surly couldn`t weaken a webbing strap unless there was something else unseen going on there. i`m still going to experiment w/ that kind of water block. i think it`s a sure way to devert water. but mabey w/ a little more caution. i hope your sore back will be fine in a day or two. ...tim

        opnheartscrub@... wrote:


        ..
        Michael and Jeff,

        I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
        pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at least
        the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
        them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was to
        blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I realized
        what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on the
        cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
        stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
        the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
        they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
        which should solve my water problem also.

        Brian
        T-BACK




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      • seuss910
        Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than physically? I m thinking specifically about the thin bead of silicone that you applied around the
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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          Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than
          physically? I'm thinking specifically about the thin bead of silicone
          that you applied around the disk. Silicone itself is inert but I
          think there's some kind of evaporating solvent mixed in the tubes to
          keep it workable. It's just a thought I'm grabbing at because I
          really don't like the idea of stitching weakening the webbing that
          much.

          -s

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
          >
          > Michael and Jeff,
          >
          > I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
          > pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at
          least
          > the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
          > them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was
          to
          > blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I
          realized
          > what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on
          the
          > cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
          > stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
          > the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
          > they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
          > which should solve my water problem also.
          >
          > Brian
          > T-BACK
          >
        • Michael B. Carter
          I haven t had one break yet (I m using rubber disks and silicone w/o stitching anything), but this is an interesting idea. I may test this by putting some
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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            I haven't had one break yet (I'm using rubber disks and silicone w/o
            stitching anything), but this is an interesting idea. I may test this by
            putting some silicone on a strap w/o stitches and adding weight until it
            breaks (if it does), to see where it breaks. I have some extra webbing
            here to try it with. I'm not sure that the silicone is even necessary with
            the rubber disks, I just haven't tested w/o it yet. It is raining here
            today though :o)

            Michael

            At 05:38 PM 2/4/06 +0000, you wrote:
            >Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than
            >physically? I'm thinking specifically about the thin bead of silicone
            >that you applied around the disk. Silicone itself is inert but I
            >think there's some kind of evaporating solvent mixed in the tubes to
            >keep it workable. It's just a thought I'm grabbing at because I
            >really don't like the idea of stitching weakening the webbing that
            >much.
            >
            >-s
            >
            >--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
            > >
            > > Michael and Jeff,
            > >
            > > I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
            > > pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at
            >least
            > > the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
            > > them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was
            >to
            > > blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I
            >realized
            > > what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on
            >the
            > > cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
            > > stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
            > > the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
            > > they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
            > > which should solve my water problem also.
            > >
            > > Brian
            > > T-BACK
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
            ... From: seuss910 Date: Saturday, February 4, 2006 12:39 pm Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: seuss910 <wrv77@...>
              Date: Saturday, February 4, 2006 12:39 pm
              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

              > Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than
              > physically? I'm thinking specifically about the thin bead of
              > silicone
              > that you applied around the disk.

              Maybe. I did spray waterproofer on the support strap and the
              waterstop strap. I did not use a bead of silicone near the
              stitching. It seems that it tore apart right at the stitch as if it
              were perforated like paper. I wish I knew why one side failed and the
              other seems ok. The straps were used to the point that they would try
              to roll up instead of hanging flat, which is why I was having the
              water problems to begin with.
              Anyone else have their straps roll up with use?

              Brian
              T-BACK
            • jwj32542
              ... Yes. I use underquilts so that might make a difference, though.
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                > Anyone else have their straps roll up with use?

                Yes. I use underquilts so that might make a difference, though.
              • dlfrost_1
                ... Most likely the needle was cutting/damaging the webbing treads as it sewed the stitch. Then with each use the damaged area weakens until you re suddenly
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                  > It seems that it tore apart right at the stitch as if it
                  > were perforated like paper.

                  Most likely the needle was cutting/damaging the webbing treads as it
                  sewed the stitch. Then with each use the damaged area weakens until
                  you're suddenly demoted to groundling status.

                  Doug Frost
                • Rick
                  Brian, You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on did you? Rick
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                    Brian,

                    You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on did you?

                    Rick

                    > Brian,
                    >
                    > I hope you didn't get hurt too badly when your hammock failed.
                  • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                    ... Rick, I used my sewing machine. I m too lazy to hand stitch anything short of leather if there is electricity nearby. Brian T-BACK
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                      > Brian,
                      >
                      > You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on
                      > did you?
                      >
                      > Rick

                      Rick,

                      I used my sewing machine. I'm too lazy to hand stitch anything short
                      of leather if there is electricity nearby.

                      Brian
                      T-BACK
                    • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                      ... Doug, I thought at first the needle on the machine might have had a burr on the tip. I looked at it through a magnifying glass but found nothing out of
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                        >
                        > Most likely the needle was cutting/damaging the webbing treads as
                        > it
                        > sewed the stitch. Then with each use the damaged area weakens
                        > until
                        > you're suddenly demoted to groundling status.
                        >
                        > Doug Frost

                        Doug,

                        I thought at first the needle on the machine might have had a burr on
                        the tip. I looked at it through a magnifying glass but found nothing
                        out of the ordinary. The two waterstops were sewn just seconds apart
                        and the other one does not appear to have any damaged fibers.

                        BRIAN
                        T-BACK
                      • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                        ... Jeff, I m not sure I follow you on how that could roll the straps. I use a peapod but never considered that could cause the rolling. Brian T-BACK
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                          > > Anyone else have their straps roll up with use?
                          >
                          > Yes. I use underquilts so that might make a difference, though.

                          Jeff,

                          I'm not sure I follow you on how that could roll the straps. I use a
                          peapod but never considered that could cause the rolling.

                          Brian
                          T-BACK
                        • jwj32542
                          ... a ... JRB s underquilts are connected by tightening a shockcord hitch around the hammock support, which necessarily folds the webbing in half, at least.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                            > I'm not sure I follow you on how that could roll the straps. I use
                            a
                            > peapod but never considered that could cause the rolling.

                            JRB's underquilts are connected by tightening a shockcord hitch around
                            the hammock support, which necessarily folds the webbing in half, at
                            least. Depending on how much I tighten it, that hitch can squeeze the
                            webbing even further.

                            Patrick's KAQ uses a prussik, which has the same effect. A PeaPod is
                            supported by the end of the hammock and doesn't really squeeze the
                            webbing with its weight.

                            However, I don't use underquilts every time, so I'm not sure if the
                            webbing folds are a matter of memory from when I DO use underquilts,
                            or if it's caused just by the kind of loading a hammock subjects it to.

                            Jeff
                          • Rick
                            I understand your use of the machine. But right now, MY sewing machine is set up with a cutting needle, as the last project I had was in sewing some
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                              I understand your use of the machine. But right now, MY sewing machine
                              is set up with a cutting needle, as the last project I had was in sewing
                              some naugahide.

                              As I read the thread, I too wondered about the reaction of the solvent
                              in the silicone sealer reacting with the strap.

                              I have done a lot of sewing of straps and never had a failure. It seems
                              it would have to be something else.

                              Rick

                              opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                              >>Brian,
                              >>
                              >>You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on
                              >>did you?
                              >>
                              >>Rick
                              >
                              >
                              > Rick,
                              >
                              > I used my sewing machine. I'm too lazy to hand stitch anything short
                              > of leather if there is electricity nearby.
                              >
                              > Brian
                              > T-BACK
                              >
                            • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                              ... I would have to agree with you, I just wish I could figure out what happened. I have sewn new straps in the same manner and used them four nights in a row
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 7, 2006
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                                > I have done a lot of sewing of straps and never had a failure. It
                                > seems
                                > it would have to be something else.
                                >
                                > Rick

                                I would have to agree with you, I just wish I could figure out what
                                happened. I have sewn new straps in the same manner and used them
                                four nights in a row and have had no problems. The solvent does not
                                seem to have weakened them. Maybe there was a defect in the strap
                                itself since one failed while the other shows no sign of stress.
                                Thanks everyone for your input. Hopefully this fall will be my last.

                                Brian
                                T-BACK
                              • David Wills
                                I don t quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip lines at all, much less
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                  I don't quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have
                                  been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip lines
                                  at all, much less functional systems, and my hammock predictably gets
                                  wet for about 2 feet on each end. It has never even been a nuisance
                                  though. I didn't even know it was wet until I put it up, and this was
                                  after an 8 hour pounding. I use synthetic insulation, but it doesn't
                                  get wet. Has anyone actually had noticable problems with water coming
                                  in from the hanging lines, or is it just something that seems like it
                                  needs to be taken care of? I could see how waterproof fabrics could
                                  be a problem wit hstanding water, but uncoated nylons and silks don't
                                  seem like they would be a noticable problem.
                                  -David with no trailname
                                • Coy
                                  David, I believe the type hanging strap and angle it is hung are big contributers to the problem. If you look at the Hennessy it is easy to see it will have
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                    David, I believe the type hanging strap and angle it is hung are big
                                    contributers to the problem. If you look at the Hennessy it is easy
                                    to see it will have less of a problem with water migrating down the
                                    lines than a hammock hung with a polypropalyne web strap and at a
                                    greater sag angle. That said, I use my Speer like hammock a lot
                                    more than my Hennessy, epecially in the winter. I like to look at
                                    the stars without a bug net in the way and sit in my hammock without
                                    a rope making me lean forward. So far I have not had any real
                                    problems getting wet in the Speer but have noticed the ends getting
                                    wet like you mention. More rain and I may have gotten wetter.

                                    What type hammock are you using?

                                    Coy Boy


                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Wills"
                                    <little_daddy979@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I don't quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have
                                    > been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip
                                    lines
                                    > at all, much less functional systems, and my hammock predictably
                                    gets
                                    > wet for about 2 feet on each end. It has never even been a
                                    nuisance
                                    > though. I didn't even know it was wet until I put it up, and this
                                    was
                                    > after an 8 hour pounding. I use synthetic insulation, but it
                                    doesn't
                                    > get wet. Has anyone actually had noticable problems with water
                                    coming
                                    > in from the hanging lines, or is it just something that seems like
                                    it
                                    > needs to be taken care of? I could see how waterproof fabrics
                                    could
                                    > be a problem wit hstanding water, but uncoated nylons and silks
                                    don't
                                    > seem like they would be a noticable problem.
                                    > -David with no trailname
                                    >
                                  • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                                    From: David Wills ... lines ... While I ve never had a water problem with my HH, I realized my homemade Speer-type hammock was
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 11, 2006
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                                      From: David Wills <little_daddy979@...>

                                      > I don't quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have
                                      > been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip
                                      lines
                                      > at all, much less functional systems, and my hammock predictably gets
                                      > wet for about 2 feet on each end. It has never even been a nuisance
                                      > though.

                                      While I've never had a water problem with my HH, I realized my
                                      homemade Speer-type hammock was funneling rainwater in when I woke up
                                      in the middle of the night with my butt soaking wet. The hammock was
                                      not holding water but it was letting track down to the lowest point
                                      before it leaked through the fabric. Unfortunately I was using my
                                      peapod as insulation and you can guess what happened, although it only
                                      seemed to get wet in a small area. I believe what you are describing
                                      is wetness from rain blown in under your tarp but my problem comes
                                      from the rolled straps acting as a gutter.

                                      Brian
                                      T-BACK
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