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RE: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry

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  • Michael Carter
    Brian, I hope you didn t get hurt too badly when your hammock failed. I m puzzled by this one. I don t understand why this would be any different than the
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
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      Brian,

      I hope you didn't get hurt too badly when your hammock failed.
      I'm puzzled by this one. I don't understand why this would be any different than the stiches used for the end loops,
      or for the loops some of us use for the bugnet ridgeline attachments.
      It might be useful to look at the area where the strap parted with a good magnifying glass or microscope to see if you can tell what happened.
      I would also look at the one that didn't fail to see if you can see any damage caused by the stitches, comparing the two.
      Do you know what the breaking strength of the strap material is? If it was marginal to begin with, anything such as the stiches might
      weaken it just enough to cause a failure. I'm interested - I don't want a similar failure.
      I run a straightline stitch back and forth several times to make the bar tacks, which equates to an extremely short stitch length. When I get back home to
      NC, I plan to look mine over very carefully for any damage.
      Please keep us informed if you learn anything more.

      Michael

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: BRIAN
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: 2/2/2006 12:21:48 PM
      Subject: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry


      Although sewing a short length of strap onto my hanging straps as a
      water stop worked very well for its intended purpose, the seam some
      how severely weakened the straps. I am now recovering from a 3' drop
      I just made as one of my straps failed right at the water stop seam.
      Just a heads up for Tim and anyone else trying this method. I have
      used the hammock with the water stops in place several times with no
      problems. I set it up this time to take pictures but didn't get that
      far. Maybe I'll go back to a rope and tree hugger setup. It just
      seems funny that the straps don't show any signs of stress where I
      sewed the loops in the ends. Anyone have any ideas on why this
      happened?

      Brian
      T-BACK





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    • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
      ... From: Michael Carter Date: Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:36 pm Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry ... Michael and Jeff, I
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Michael Carter <carterm@...>
        Date: Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:36 pm
        Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry

        > Brian,
        >
        > I hope you didn't get hurt too badly when your hammock failed.
        > I'm puzzled by this one. I don't understand why this would be any
        > different than the stiches used for the end loops,


        Michael and Jeff,

        I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
        pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at least
        the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
        them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was to
        blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I realized
        what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on the
        cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
        stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
        the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
        they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
        which should solve my water problem also.

        Brian
        T-BACK
      • tim garner
        brian... i can`t help but think that was just one of those unusual, hard to explain things. a line or two of stiching surly couldn`t weaken a webbing strap
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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          brian... i can`t help but think that was just one of those unusual, hard to explain things. a line or two of stiching surly couldn`t weaken a webbing strap unless there was something else unseen going on there. i`m still going to experiment w/ that kind of water block. i think it`s a sure way to devert water. but mabey w/ a little more caution. i hope your sore back will be fine in a day or two. ...tim

          opnheartscrub@... wrote:


          ..
          Michael and Jeff,

          I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
          pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at least
          the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
          them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was to
          blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I realized
          what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on the
          cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
          stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
          the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
          they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
          which should solve my water problem also.

          Brian
          T-BACK




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        • seuss910
          Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than physically? I m thinking specifically about the thin bead of silicone that you applied around the
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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            Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than
            physically? I'm thinking specifically about the thin bead of silicone
            that you applied around the disk. Silicone itself is inert but I
            think there's some kind of evaporating solvent mixed in the tubes to
            keep it workable. It's just a thought I'm grabbing at because I
            really don't like the idea of stitching weakening the webbing that
            much.

            -s

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
            >
            > Michael and Jeff,
            >
            > I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
            > pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at
            least
            > the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
            > them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was
            to
            > blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I
            realized
            > what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on
            the
            > cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
            > stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
            > the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
            > they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
            > which should solve my water problem also.
            >
            > Brian
            > T-BACK
            >
          • Michael B. Carter
            I haven t had one break yet (I m using rubber disks and silicone w/o stitching anything), but this is an interesting idea. I may test this by putting some
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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              I haven't had one break yet (I'm using rubber disks and silicone w/o
              stitching anything), but this is an interesting idea. I may test this by
              putting some silicone on a strap w/o stitches and adding weight until it
              breaks (if it does), to see where it breaks. I have some extra webbing
              here to try it with. I'm not sure that the silicone is even necessary with
              the rubber disks, I just haven't tested w/o it yet. It is raining here
              today though :o)

              Michael

              At 05:38 PM 2/4/06 +0000, you wrote:
              >Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than
              >physically? I'm thinking specifically about the thin bead of silicone
              >that you applied around the disk. Silicone itself is inert but I
              >think there's some kind of evaporating solvent mixed in the tubes to
              >keep it workable. It's just a thought I'm grabbing at because I
              >really don't like the idea of stitching weakening the webbing that
              >much.
              >
              >-s
              >
              >--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
              > >
              > > Michael and Jeff,
              > >
              > > I was worried about my lumbar fusion but it seems to have hurt my
              > > pride more than my back. It knocked the wind out of me but at
              >least
              > > the dog was the only witness! The straps were fairly new as I got
              > > them from Ed at the last SEHHA Hangout. I don't believe UV rot was
              >to
              > > blame. I actually heard the fibers tearing but by the time I
              >realized
              > > what was happening it was too late. The seam was still intact on
              >the
              > > cross piece of webbing. The strap pulled apart right at the
              > > stitching. For what it's worth, the other side looks ok even under
              > > the magnifying glass. I stitch my end loops the same as you do and
              > > they appear to be ok. I think I'm going to go back to my rope setup
              > > which should solve my water problem also.
              > >
              > > Brian
              > > T-BACK
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
              ... From: seuss910 Date: Saturday, February 4, 2006 12:39 pm Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: seuss910 <wrv77@...>
                Date: Saturday, February 4, 2006 12:39 pm
                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Keeping dry
                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

                > Could the straps have been weakened chemically rather than
                > physically? I'm thinking specifically about the thin bead of
                > silicone
                > that you applied around the disk.

                Maybe. I did spray waterproofer on the support strap and the
                waterstop strap. I did not use a bead of silicone near the
                stitching. It seems that it tore apart right at the stitch as if it
                were perforated like paper. I wish I knew why one side failed and the
                other seems ok. The straps were used to the point that they would try
                to roll up instead of hanging flat, which is why I was having the
                water problems to begin with.
                Anyone else have their straps roll up with use?

                Brian
                T-BACK
              • jwj32542
                ... Yes. I use underquilts so that might make a difference, though.
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                  > Anyone else have their straps roll up with use?

                  Yes. I use underquilts so that might make a difference, though.
                • dlfrost_1
                  ... Most likely the needle was cutting/damaging the webbing treads as it sewed the stitch. Then with each use the damaged area weakens until you re suddenly
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                    > It seems that it tore apart right at the stitch as if it
                    > were perforated like paper.

                    Most likely the needle was cutting/damaging the webbing treads as it
                    sewed the stitch. Then with each use the damaged area weakens until
                    you're suddenly demoted to groundling status.

                    Doug Frost
                  • Rick
                    Brian, You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on did you? Rick
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                      Brian,

                      You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on did you?

                      Rick

                      > Brian,
                      >
                      > I hope you didn't get hurt too badly when your hammock failed.
                    • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                      ... Rick, I used my sewing machine. I m too lazy to hand stitch anything short of leather if there is electricity nearby. Brian T-BACK
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                        > Brian,
                        >
                        > You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on
                        > did you?
                        >
                        > Rick

                        Rick,

                        I used my sewing machine. I'm too lazy to hand stitch anything short
                        of leather if there is electricity nearby.

                        Brian
                        T-BACK
                      • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                        ... Doug, I thought at first the needle on the machine might have had a burr on the tip. I looked at it through a magnifying glass but found nothing out of
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                          >
                          > Most likely the needle was cutting/damaging the webbing treads as
                          > it
                          > sewed the stitch. Then with each use the damaged area weakens
                          > until
                          > you're suddenly demoted to groundling status.
                          >
                          > Doug Frost

                          Doug,

                          I thought at first the needle on the machine might have had a burr on
                          the tip. I looked at it through a magnifying glass but found nothing
                          out of the ordinary. The two waterstops were sewn just seconds apart
                          and the other one does not appear to have any damaged fibers.

                          BRIAN
                          T-BACK
                        • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                          ... Jeff, I m not sure I follow you on how that could roll the straps. I use a peapod but never considered that could cause the rolling. Brian T-BACK
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                            > > Anyone else have their straps roll up with use?
                            >
                            > Yes. I use underquilts so that might make a difference, though.

                            Jeff,

                            I'm not sure I follow you on how that could roll the straps. I use a
                            peapod but never considered that could cause the rolling.

                            Brian
                            T-BACK
                          • jwj32542
                            ... a ... JRB s underquilts are connected by tightening a shockcord hitch around the hammock support, which necessarily folds the webbing in half, at least.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                              > I'm not sure I follow you on how that could roll the straps. I use
                              a
                              > peapod but never considered that could cause the rolling.

                              JRB's underquilts are connected by tightening a shockcord hitch around
                              the hammock support, which necessarily folds the webbing in half, at
                              least. Depending on how much I tighten it, that hitch can squeeze the
                              webbing even further.

                              Patrick's KAQ uses a prussik, which has the same effect. A PeaPod is
                              supported by the end of the hammock and doesn't really squeeze the
                              webbing with its weight.

                              However, I don't use underquilts every time, so I'm not sure if the
                              webbing folds are a matter of memory from when I DO use underquilts,
                              or if it's caused just by the kind of loading a hammock subjects it to.

                              Jeff
                            • Rick
                              I understand your use of the machine. But right now, MY sewing machine is set up with a cutting needle, as the last project I had was in sewing some
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 5, 2006
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                                I understand your use of the machine. But right now, MY sewing machine
                                is set up with a cutting needle, as the last project I had was in sewing
                                some naugahide.

                                As I read the thread, I too wondered about the reaction of the solvent
                                in the silicone sealer reacting with the strap.

                                I have done a lot of sewing of straps and never had a failure. It seems
                                it would have to be something else.

                                Rick

                                opnheartscrub@... wrote:
                                >>Brian,
                                >>
                                >>You did not use a cutting (leather) needle when sewing that tag on
                                >>did you?
                                >>
                                >>Rick
                                >
                                >
                                > Rick,
                                >
                                > I used my sewing machine. I'm too lazy to hand stitch anything short
                                > of leather if there is electricity nearby.
                                >
                                > Brian
                                > T-BACK
                                >
                              • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                                ... I would have to agree with you, I just wish I could figure out what happened. I have sewn new straps in the same manner and used them four nights in a row
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 7, 2006
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                                  > I have done a lot of sewing of straps and never had a failure. It
                                  > seems
                                  > it would have to be something else.
                                  >
                                  > Rick

                                  I would have to agree with you, I just wish I could figure out what
                                  happened. I have sewn new straps in the same manner and used them
                                  four nights in a row and have had no problems. The solvent does not
                                  seem to have weakened them. Maybe there was a defect in the strap
                                  itself since one failed while the other shows no sign of stress.
                                  Thanks everyone for your input. Hopefully this fall will be my last.

                                  Brian
                                  T-BACK
                                • David Wills
                                  I don t quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip lines at all, much less
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                    I don't quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have
                                    been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip lines
                                    at all, much less functional systems, and my hammock predictably gets
                                    wet for about 2 feet on each end. It has never even been a nuisance
                                    though. I didn't even know it was wet until I put it up, and this was
                                    after an 8 hour pounding. I use synthetic insulation, but it doesn't
                                    get wet. Has anyone actually had noticable problems with water coming
                                    in from the hanging lines, or is it just something that seems like it
                                    needs to be taken care of? I could see how waterproof fabrics could
                                    be a problem wit hstanding water, but uncoated nylons and silks don't
                                    seem like they would be a noticable problem.
                                    -David with no trailname
                                  • Coy
                                    David, I believe the type hanging strap and angle it is hung are big contributers to the problem. If you look at the Hennessy it is easy to see it will have
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                      David, I believe the type hanging strap and angle it is hung are big
                                      contributers to the problem. If you look at the Hennessy it is easy
                                      to see it will have less of a problem with water migrating down the
                                      lines than a hammock hung with a polypropalyne web strap and at a
                                      greater sag angle. That said, I use my Speer like hammock a lot
                                      more than my Hennessy, epecially in the winter. I like to look at
                                      the stars without a bug net in the way and sit in my hammock without
                                      a rope making me lean forward. So far I have not had any real
                                      problems getting wet in the Speer but have noticed the ends getting
                                      wet like you mention. More rain and I may have gotten wetter.

                                      What type hammock are you using?

                                      Coy Boy


                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Wills"
                                      <little_daddy979@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I don't quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have
                                      > been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip
                                      lines
                                      > at all, much less functional systems, and my hammock predictably
                                      gets
                                      > wet for about 2 feet on each end. It has never even been a
                                      nuisance
                                      > though. I didn't even know it was wet until I put it up, and this
                                      was
                                      > after an 8 hour pounding. I use synthetic insulation, but it
                                      doesn't
                                      > get wet. Has anyone actually had noticable problems with water
                                      coming
                                      > in from the hanging lines, or is it just something that seems like
                                      it
                                      > needs to be taken care of? I could see how waterproof fabrics
                                      could
                                      > be a problem wit hstanding water, but uncoated nylons and silks
                                      don't
                                      > seem like they would be a noticable problem.
                                      > -David with no trailname
                                      >
                                    • opnheartscrub@tampabay.rr.com
                                      From: David Wills ... lines ... While I ve never had a water problem with my HH, I realized my homemade Speer-type hammock was
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Feb 11, 2006
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                                        From: David Wills <little_daddy979@...>

                                        > I don't quite understand the need to keep the hammock dry. I have
                                        > been in a few rain storms in the past couple months with no drip
                                        lines
                                        > at all, much less functional systems, and my hammock predictably gets
                                        > wet for about 2 feet on each end. It has never even been a nuisance
                                        > though.

                                        While I've never had a water problem with my HH, I realized my
                                        homemade Speer-type hammock was funneling rainwater in when I woke up
                                        in the middle of the night with my butt soaking wet. The hammock was
                                        not holding water but it was letting track down to the lowest point
                                        before it leaked through the fabric. Unfortunately I was using my
                                        peapod as insulation and you can guess what happened, although it only
                                        seemed to get wet in a small area. I believe what you are describing
                                        is wetness from rain blown in under your tarp but my problem comes
                                        from the rolled straps acting as a gutter.

                                        Brian
                                        T-BACK
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