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Re: Hammock Camping Re: Double bottom hammocks?

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  • Chester Clocksin
    Ray,I ve been experimenting with the GI, using a cheap poly tarp that I cut into 5 x 9 ft. with drawstrings on all sides. My results have not been good, I
    Message 1 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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      Ray,
      I've been experimenting with the GI, using a cheap poly tarp that I cut into 5 x 9 ft. with drawstrings on all sides. My results have not been good, I think due to the cheap poly tarp material and huge hassle rigging the thing up and trying to get inside the HH. I like the concept a lot, especially the dual use aspect of a tarp/shell. You mention that you are using loops on the corners. Are you using shock cord for those? How do you take up the slack? I know you said you use a drawstring at the foot end. Do you still tie the corners of the foot end off to the ridge line, and then pull it up with a drawstring that exits at the center of the foot end hem? And one more question... Do you use drawstrings on the long sides?
      Sorry for all questions. I think the GI would be perfect if I could easily hang it and end up with a shell thats snug fitting enough to place a pad/clothes/etc. in and not have to worry about them moving around. I like the ideas on the list of a double bottom hammock too, but I think the bottom entry of the HH complicates things for that set up, not to mention the hassle of having to do some modifications (sewing) to my HH.
      Thanks
      Chet

      Ray Garlington <rgarling@...> wrote:
      > If I were to make a double bottom hammock I would cut
      > the bottom one a little longer and let the bottom one sag just a
      > little.  This would not be a big deal with a pad of foam but for a
      > dual use items like extra clothes, especially anything down I'm
      > thinking it needs a little extra room.  What do yall think?
      >
      > Coy Boy 
      >

      I think having some adjustability in the size of the gap between
      hammock bottoms is important.  This would allow the use of varying
      thicknesses of insulation.

      I am having good luck and little hassle with a 6'x8.5' tarp with loops
      at the corners and a drawstring at the foot end.  I can connect it
      within a minute to either a Hennessey or a Speer. (just keep the
      attachment lines on the hammock body)  The footend draw string is used
      to take up the slack in between.

      For my annual AT section hike starting this afternoon, I have decided
      to use the Speer Hammock with the 8x10 tarp, the Garlington Insulator,
      and wrap the hammock body & GI shell with snakeskins. 



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    • Ray Garlington
      ... On the HH, when rigging, you must leave enough slack at the foot end ties so that the mid-bottom of the foot end of the tarp can reach the split (or close
      Message 2 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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        please see comments below:

        > Ray,I've been experimenting with the GI, using a cheap poly tarp
        >that I cut into 5 x 9 ft. with drawstrings on all sides. My results
        >have not been good, I think due to the cheap poly tarp material and
        >huge hassle rigging the thing up and trying to get inside the HH.

        On the HH, when rigging, you must leave enough slack at the foot end
        ties so that the mid-bottom of the foot end of the tarp can reach the
        split (or close to it). When rigged this way, you need to use a
        little more care when entering so that you don't sit on the GI shell's
        ridge lines.

        > You mention that you are using loops on the corners. Are you using
        > shock cord for those?
        I'm not using shock cord, just tying off the long ends at the 'right'
        spot. Shock cord might help.

        > I know you said you use a drawstring at the foot end. Do you still
        >tie the corners of the foot end off to the ridge line, and then pull
        > it up with a drawstring that exits at the center of the foot end
        hem?
        I tie the foot end corners to the ridge line, and use the drawstring
        to remove the excess slack.

        > And one more question... Do you use drawstrings on the long sides?

        I have forgone the drawstrings on the long sides, and am now using
        just a 6'x8.5' silnylon tarp that works well. I'll be testing this for
        about 8 nights starting tonight and will report the utility of this
        configuration when used with the Speer hammock at the end of my hike.

        > I think the GI would be perfect if I could easily
        > hang it and end up with a shell thats snug fitting enough to place a
        > pad/clothes/etc. in and not have to worry about them moving around.
        It does work well. On this trip I will be seeing how well a cheap
        garbage bag combined with a 'space blanket' holds up on an extended
        outing. I doubt I'll really need that much insulation on this trip,
        but will be using it just to test durability. The silnylon tarp,
        plastic bag, space blanket and rubber band is very light (~12oz).
      • Ed Speer
        All the best on your AT hike Ray--makes me envious as I sit here at the computer again! The weather is perfect now for a hike! ...Ed ... From: Ray Garlington
        Message 3 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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          Message
          All the best on your AT hike Ray--makes me envious as I sit here at the computer again! The weather is perfect now for a hike!  ...Ed
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ray Garlington [mailto:rgarling@...]
          Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 7:36 AM
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Double bottom hammocks?


          For my annual AT section hike starting this afternoon, I have decided
          to use the Speer Hammock with the 8x10 tarp, the Garlington Insulator,
          and wrap the hammock body & GI shell with snakeskins. 
        • Rick
          Hi Coy, You have hit the nail on the head. Ray s insulator and the double bottom hammock as I built it are different and meant to be so. Ray s insulator (and
          Message 4 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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            Hi Coy,

            You have hit the nail on the head.

            Ray's insulator and the double bottom hammock as I built it are
            different and meant to be so.

            Ray's insulator (and all the taco shell derivatives) are relatively
            loosely hanging under the hammock to allow use of leaves or air bags
            or clothing or packs or space blankets under the hammock. This is
            really not too far away from the idea of an underquilt that some of
            us have experimented and Ed's pea pod under and over bag.

            I had some difficulty with the underslung insulation which I did not
            have with the pad in the hammock. I found the insulation, if not
            against me, tended to get wind or convection currents going which
            robbed me of warmth. I wanted the equivalent of a pad against my
            skin so there was no room for cold air to get in.

            However, I find several of the pads uncomfortable because they are
            sticky to my skin and tend to bunch up and move around a lot when I
            toss and turn. I especially do not like the inch wide radial folds
            that form in the Target pad half way through the night, poking me in
            the side.

            So, when someone mentioned the double bottom, and I remembered
            reading about this type of bottom on the Crazy Creek H, I decided to
            give it a try. I worried for a moment that the two hammock pieces
            would compress the insulation into nothing, and then remembered that
            I was already sleeping with all my weight on the pad anyway...

            My observation from a couple nights sleeping on this system is that I
            can move around easier; moving around does not move the pad and
            uncomfortable folds do not form in the edges of the pad, the
            insulation is against my skin (except for a single layer of cloth)
            and this keeps me warm.

            I do look forward to reading the results of the double 1.1 oz hammock
            in these reports. I will build a double 1.9 oz hammock because I
            already have the material coming.

            I have done a couple calculations. If one builds a double 1.1 oz
            hammock but makes the hammock 48 inches wide, it will be 93 percent
            of the weight of a standard 60 inch wide 1.9oz hammock.

            BTW, I did take some pics last night with my son in the hammock, but
            the connection with the computer is on the fritz... Soon will come
            the pics, I promise.

            Rick

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
            > I've just read all the threads on this and was wondering. You lay
            > the 2 pieces out one on top of the other, then gather the ends as
            > Ed describes in his book and make the overhead knot. So you have
            > basically a hammock under your hammock. This would seem to be to
            > tight to use say a down jacket for insulation. I would think when
            > you lay down the 2 surfaces would want to squeeze together pretty
            > vigerously. If I were to make a double bottom hammock I would cut
            > the bottom one a little longer and let the bottom one sag just a
            > little. This would not be a big deal with a pad of foam but for a
            > dual use items like extra clothes, especially anything down I'm
            > thinking it needs a little extra room. What do yall think?
            >
            > Coy Boy
            >
            > PS Rick get those pics of the ridgless bug net posted. I'm also
            > having a hard time picturing it. I am picturing a netting shaped
            > like a football but it seems like it would want to stay centered
            > (in the way) if you tucked the ends in with the knot.
          • Rick
            ... And thank God we don t have to go testing that stuff for a few months now! I look forward to doing some camping without the white covering all over the
            Message 5 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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              Bear wrote:
              >
              > The tight double bottom is only for holding your pad in
              > place, when a pad is needed. The Garlington shell is for
              > fluffy, underquilt type material, and is only needed in cold
              > weather.
              >
              And thank God we don't have to go testing that stuff for a few months
              now! I look forward to doing some camping without the white covering
              all over the ground!

              Rick
            • David Chinell
              Coy: I ve used Nomad Travel Tropical hammocks for along time. They re doubled, and you re right about how tight they are. But they re ideal for holding your
              Message 6 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                Coy:

                I've used Nomad Travel Tropical hammocks for along time.
                They're doubled, and you're right about how tight they are.

                But they're ideal for holding your pad in place. I also
                think the doubledness makes it possible to use thinner
                material.

                I think the answer to a general purpose all-season hammock
                will have to have BOTH a tight double bottom and a looser,
                detachable Garlington shell.

                The tight double bottom is only for holding your pad in
                place, when a pad is needed. The Garlington shell is for
                fluffy, underquilt type material, and is only needed in cold
                weather.

                My opinion, totally unsupported by actual experience.

                Bear
              • David Chinell
                Coy: And furthermore... I ve had the best cold-weather success with a double layer hammock and a Speer Pea Pod. I think I m going to try the Garlington shell
                Message 7 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                  Coy:

                  And furthermore...

                  I've had the best cold-weather success with a double layer
                  hammock and a Speer Pea Pod. I think I'm going to try the
                  Garlington shell next winter as a method for attaching an
                  underquilt, and use a smaller, thinner quilt on top. Same
                  idea as the Pea Pod, but just not a wrap-around.

                  Bear
                • Rick
                  I gotta try a pea pod next winter! Experiments with narrower hammocks might decrease the empty space in the bag, making it more efficient (and lighter to
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                    I gotta try a "pea pod" next winter! Experiments with narrower
                    hammocks might decrease the empty space in the bag, making it more
                    efficient (and lighter to boot!)

                    Rick

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                    <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                    > Coy:
                    >
                    > And furthermore...
                    >
                    > I've had the best cold-weather success with a double layer
                    > hammock and a Speer Pea Pod. I think I'm going to try the
                    > Garlington shell next winter as a method for attaching an
                    > underquilt, and use a smaller, thinner quilt on top. Same
                    > idea as the Pea Pod, but just not a wrap-around.
                    >
                    > Bear
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