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Double bottom hammocks?

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  • Coy
    I ve just read all the threads on this and was wondering. You lay the 2 pieces out one on top of the other, then gather the ends as Ed describes in his book
    Message 1 of 11 , May 1, 2003
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      I've just read all the threads on this and was wondering. You lay
      the 2 pieces out one on top of the other, then gather the ends as
      Ed describes in his book and make the overhead knot. So you have
      basically a hammock under your hammock. This would seem to be to
      tight to use say a down jacket for insulation. I would think when
      you lay down the 2 surfaces would want to squeeze together pretty
      vigerously. If I were to make a double bottom hammock I would cut
      the bottom one a little longer and let the bottom one sag just a
      little. This would not be a big deal with a pad of foam but for a
      dual use items like extra clothes, especially anything down I'm
      thinking it needs a little extra room. What do yall think?

      Coy Boy

      PS Rick get those pics of the ridgless bug net posted. I'm also
      having a hard time picturing it. I am picturing a netting shaped
      like a football but it seems like it would want to stay centered
      (in the way) if you tucked the ends in with the knot.
    • Ray Garlington
      ... I think having some adjustability in the size of the gap between hammock bottoms is important. This would allow the use of varying thicknesses of
      Message 2 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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        > If I were to make a double bottom hammock I would cut
        > the bottom one a little longer and let the bottom one sag just a
        > little. This would not be a big deal with a pad of foam but for a
        > dual use items like extra clothes, especially anything down I'm
        > thinking it needs a little extra room. What do yall think?
        >
        > Coy Boy
        >

        I think having some adjustability in the size of the gap between
        hammock bottoms is important. This would allow the use of varying
        thicknesses of insulation.

        I am having good luck and little hassle with a 6'x8.5' tarp with loops
        at the corners and a drawstring at the foot end. I can connect it
        within a minute to either a Hennessey or a Speer. (just keep the
        attachment lines on the hammock body) The footend draw string is used
        to take up the slack in between.

        For my annual AT section hike starting this afternoon, I have decided
        to use the Speer Hammock with the 8x10 tarp, the Garlington Insulator,
        and wrap the hammock body & GI shell with snakeskins.
      • Dave Womble
        ... Coy Boy, I think your assessment about the tightness and down jackets are right. It is very tight where it is loaded with your weight and gets less tight
        Message 3 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
          > I've just read all the threads on this and was wondering. You lay
          > the 2 pieces out one on top of the other, then gather the ends as
          > Ed describes in his book and make the overhead knot. So you have
          > basically a hammock under your hammock. This would seem to be to
          > tight to use say a down jacket for insulation. I would think when
          > you lay down the 2 surfaces would want to squeeze together pretty
          > vigerously. If I were to make a double bottom hammock I would cut
          > the bottom one a little longer and let the bottom one sag just a
          > little. This would not be a big deal with a pad of foam but for a
          > dual use items like extra clothes, especially anything down I'm
          > thinking it needs a little extra room. What do yall think?
          >
          > Coy Boy
          >

          Coy Boy,

          I think your assessment about the tightness and down jackets are
          right. It is very tight where it is loaded with your weight and gets
          less tight when you get away from where it is 'weight loaded'. The
          side edges are typically loose. (This tightness is what 'kind-of'
          holds things in place when you move around. I use the word 'kind-of'
          because things are not locked in place.) So yes, highly compressable
          items won't work as well for insulation...you are still basically
          laying on them in the two-layer version, so on the plus side, you
          shouldn't have to make adjustments to take out any unwanted air-space
          between you and your insulation. I ordered some 1.1 ounce rip-stop
          nylon and should be able to make a lighter weight two-layer version
          with it next weekend. (Unfortunately, the 1.1 oz material costs a
          little more that the 1.9 oz material that I had found at a local
          fabric store and you need twice as much.)

          You could get similar results by making a pad holder out of light
          weight, durable material, sort of like Shane's blanket wrap (but not
          with the 'neat sheet', which I think weighs about 3oz per sq yd and
          is not intended to be durable). You could customize it to
          accommodate 'wing pads', smaller sections of insulation, unused
          clothing or whatever you like.

          Youngblood
        • Chester Clocksin
          Ray,I ve been experimenting with the GI, using a cheap poly tarp that I cut into 5 x 9 ft. with drawstrings on all sides. My results have not been good, I
          Message 4 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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            Ray,
            I've been experimenting with the GI, using a cheap poly tarp that I cut into 5 x 9 ft. with drawstrings on all sides. My results have not been good, I think due to the cheap poly tarp material and huge hassle rigging the thing up and trying to get inside the HH. I like the concept a lot, especially the dual use aspect of a tarp/shell. You mention that you are using loops on the corners. Are you using shock cord for those? How do you take up the slack? I know you said you use a drawstring at the foot end. Do you still tie the corners of the foot end off to the ridge line, and then pull it up with a drawstring that exits at the center of the foot end hem? And one more question... Do you use drawstrings on the long sides?
            Sorry for all questions. I think the GI would be perfect if I could easily hang it and end up with a shell thats snug fitting enough to place a pad/clothes/etc. in and not have to worry about them moving around. I like the ideas on the list of a double bottom hammock too, but I think the bottom entry of the HH complicates things for that set up, not to mention the hassle of having to do some modifications (sewing) to my HH.
            Thanks
            Chet

            Ray Garlington <rgarling@...> wrote:
            > If I were to make a double bottom hammock I would cut
            > the bottom one a little longer and let the bottom one sag just a
            > little.  This would not be a big deal with a pad of foam but for a
            > dual use items like extra clothes, especially anything down I'm
            > thinking it needs a little extra room.  What do yall think?
            >
            > Coy Boy 
            >

            I think having some adjustability in the size of the gap between
            hammock bottoms is important.  This would allow the use of varying
            thicknesses of insulation.

            I am having good luck and little hassle with a 6'x8.5' tarp with loops
            at the corners and a drawstring at the foot end.  I can connect it
            within a minute to either a Hennessey or a Speer. (just keep the
            attachment lines on the hammock body)  The footend draw string is used
            to take up the slack in between.

            For my annual AT section hike starting this afternoon, I have decided
            to use the Speer Hammock with the 8x10 tarp, the Garlington Insulator,
            and wrap the hammock body & GI shell with snakeskins. 



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          • Ray Garlington
            ... On the HH, when rigging, you must leave enough slack at the foot end ties so that the mid-bottom of the foot end of the tarp can reach the split (or close
            Message 5 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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              please see comments below:

              > Ray,I've been experimenting with the GI, using a cheap poly tarp
              >that I cut into 5 x 9 ft. with drawstrings on all sides. My results
              >have not been good, I think due to the cheap poly tarp material and
              >huge hassle rigging the thing up and trying to get inside the HH.

              On the HH, when rigging, you must leave enough slack at the foot end
              ties so that the mid-bottom of the foot end of the tarp can reach the
              split (or close to it). When rigged this way, you need to use a
              little more care when entering so that you don't sit on the GI shell's
              ridge lines.

              > You mention that you are using loops on the corners. Are you using
              > shock cord for those?
              I'm not using shock cord, just tying off the long ends at the 'right'
              spot. Shock cord might help.

              > I know you said you use a drawstring at the foot end. Do you still
              >tie the corners of the foot end off to the ridge line, and then pull
              > it up with a drawstring that exits at the center of the foot end
              hem?
              I tie the foot end corners to the ridge line, and use the drawstring
              to remove the excess slack.

              > And one more question... Do you use drawstrings on the long sides?

              I have forgone the drawstrings on the long sides, and am now using
              just a 6'x8.5' silnylon tarp that works well. I'll be testing this for
              about 8 nights starting tonight and will report the utility of this
              configuration when used with the Speer hammock at the end of my hike.

              > I think the GI would be perfect if I could easily
              > hang it and end up with a shell thats snug fitting enough to place a
              > pad/clothes/etc. in and not have to worry about them moving around.
              It does work well. On this trip I will be seeing how well a cheap
              garbage bag combined with a 'space blanket' holds up on an extended
              outing. I doubt I'll really need that much insulation on this trip,
              but will be using it just to test durability. The silnylon tarp,
              plastic bag, space blanket and rubber band is very light (~12oz).
            • Ed Speer
              All the best on your AT hike Ray--makes me envious as I sit here at the computer again! The weather is perfect now for a hike! ...Ed ... From: Ray Garlington
              Message 6 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                Message
                All the best on your AT hike Ray--makes me envious as I sit here at the computer again! The weather is perfect now for a hike!  ...Ed
                 
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ray Garlington [mailto:rgarling@...]
                Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 7:36 AM
                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Double bottom hammocks?


                For my annual AT section hike starting this afternoon, I have decided
                to use the Speer Hammock with the 8x10 tarp, the Garlington Insulator,
                and wrap the hammock body & GI shell with snakeskins. 
              • Rick
                Hi Coy, You have hit the nail on the head. Ray s insulator and the double bottom hammock as I built it are different and meant to be so. Ray s insulator (and
                Message 7 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                  Hi Coy,

                  You have hit the nail on the head.

                  Ray's insulator and the double bottom hammock as I built it are
                  different and meant to be so.

                  Ray's insulator (and all the taco shell derivatives) are relatively
                  loosely hanging under the hammock to allow use of leaves or air bags
                  or clothing or packs or space blankets under the hammock. This is
                  really not too far away from the idea of an underquilt that some of
                  us have experimented and Ed's pea pod under and over bag.

                  I had some difficulty with the underslung insulation which I did not
                  have with the pad in the hammock. I found the insulation, if not
                  against me, tended to get wind or convection currents going which
                  robbed me of warmth. I wanted the equivalent of a pad against my
                  skin so there was no room for cold air to get in.

                  However, I find several of the pads uncomfortable because they are
                  sticky to my skin and tend to bunch up and move around a lot when I
                  toss and turn. I especially do not like the inch wide radial folds
                  that form in the Target pad half way through the night, poking me in
                  the side.

                  So, when someone mentioned the double bottom, and I remembered
                  reading about this type of bottom on the Crazy Creek H, I decided to
                  give it a try. I worried for a moment that the two hammock pieces
                  would compress the insulation into nothing, and then remembered that
                  I was already sleeping with all my weight on the pad anyway...

                  My observation from a couple nights sleeping on this system is that I
                  can move around easier; moving around does not move the pad and
                  uncomfortable folds do not form in the edges of the pad, the
                  insulation is against my skin (except for a single layer of cloth)
                  and this keeps me warm.

                  I do look forward to reading the results of the double 1.1 oz hammock
                  in these reports. I will build a double 1.9 oz hammock because I
                  already have the material coming.

                  I have done a couple calculations. If one builds a double 1.1 oz
                  hammock but makes the hammock 48 inches wide, it will be 93 percent
                  of the weight of a standard 60 inch wide 1.9oz hammock.

                  BTW, I did take some pics last night with my son in the hammock, but
                  the connection with the computer is on the fritz... Soon will come
                  the pics, I promise.

                  Rick

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
                  > I've just read all the threads on this and was wondering. You lay
                  > the 2 pieces out one on top of the other, then gather the ends as
                  > Ed describes in his book and make the overhead knot. So you have
                  > basically a hammock under your hammock. This would seem to be to
                  > tight to use say a down jacket for insulation. I would think when
                  > you lay down the 2 surfaces would want to squeeze together pretty
                  > vigerously. If I were to make a double bottom hammock I would cut
                  > the bottom one a little longer and let the bottom one sag just a
                  > little. This would not be a big deal with a pad of foam but for a
                  > dual use items like extra clothes, especially anything down I'm
                  > thinking it needs a little extra room. What do yall think?
                  >
                  > Coy Boy
                  >
                  > PS Rick get those pics of the ridgless bug net posted. I'm also
                  > having a hard time picturing it. I am picturing a netting shaped
                  > like a football but it seems like it would want to stay centered
                  > (in the way) if you tucked the ends in with the knot.
                • Rick
                  ... And thank God we don t have to go testing that stuff for a few months now! I look forward to doing some camping without the white covering all over the
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                    Bear wrote:
                    >
                    > The tight double bottom is only for holding your pad in
                    > place, when a pad is needed. The Garlington shell is for
                    > fluffy, underquilt type material, and is only needed in cold
                    > weather.
                    >
                    And thank God we don't have to go testing that stuff for a few months
                    now! I look forward to doing some camping without the white covering
                    all over the ground!

                    Rick
                  • David Chinell
                    Coy: I ve used Nomad Travel Tropical hammocks for along time. They re doubled, and you re right about how tight they are. But they re ideal for holding your
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                      Coy:

                      I've used Nomad Travel Tropical hammocks for along time.
                      They're doubled, and you're right about how tight they are.

                      But they're ideal for holding your pad in place. I also
                      think the doubledness makes it possible to use thinner
                      material.

                      I think the answer to a general purpose all-season hammock
                      will have to have BOTH a tight double bottom and a looser,
                      detachable Garlington shell.

                      The tight double bottom is only for holding your pad in
                      place, when a pad is needed. The Garlington shell is for
                      fluffy, underquilt type material, and is only needed in cold
                      weather.

                      My opinion, totally unsupported by actual experience.

                      Bear
                    • David Chinell
                      Coy: And furthermore... I ve had the best cold-weather success with a double layer hammock and a Speer Pea Pod. I think I m going to try the Garlington shell
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                        Coy:

                        And furthermore...

                        I've had the best cold-weather success with a double layer
                        hammock and a Speer Pea Pod. I think I'm going to try the
                        Garlington shell next winter as a method for attaching an
                        underquilt, and use a smaller, thinner quilt on top. Same
                        idea as the Pea Pod, but just not a wrap-around.

                        Bear
                      • Rick
                        I gotta try a pea pod next winter! Experiments with narrower hammocks might decrease the empty space in the bag, making it more efficient (and lighter to
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 2, 2003
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                          I gotta try a "pea pod" next winter! Experiments with narrower
                          hammocks might decrease the empty space in the bag, making it more
                          efficient (and lighter to boot!)

                          Rick

                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                          <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                          > Coy:
                          >
                          > And furthermore...
                          >
                          > I've had the best cold-weather success with a double layer
                          > hammock and a Speer Pea Pod. I think I'm going to try the
                          > Garlington shell next winter as a method for attaching an
                          > underquilt, and use a smaller, thinner quilt on top. Same
                          > idea as the Pea Pod, but just not a wrap-around.
                          >
                          > Bear
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