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Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......

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  • Rick
    Matt, Only problem there, if I remember this stuff from my climbing days, is that the climbing webb gear stuff is almost always nylon, not poly.
    Message 1 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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      Matt,

      Only problem there, if I remember this stuff from my climbing days,
      is that the climbing webb gear stuff is almost always nylon, not
      poly. Unfortunately, the nylon stretches too much for hammocks.

      Rick

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Pulsts"
      <mvpulsts@e...> wrote:
      > You might also try locating you local outfitter that deals in
      climbing gear.
      > They will sell webbing of all sorts. The nice thing about the
      climbing
      > shop's webbing is that it HAS to have been tested and weight
      bearing specs
      > HAVE to be available.
      >
      >
      >
      > Just a thought.
      >
      >
      >
      > Matt
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@y...]
      > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:56 AM
      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......
      >
      >
      >
      > I really appreciate it when someone calls me an enthusiastic
      > youngster. You made my day!!!
      >
      > It would be wonderful to have specs on the webbing. Unfortunately,
      > it is almost never available. Ed and I have had this conversation
      > and it usually comes back to the fact that the manufacturer does
      not
      > want to be responsible for guarantees of breaking strength. They
      > certainly do NOT want anyone putting their body weight on that
      > strap. So getting a clear answer seems impossible.
      >
      > I agree with your assessment, yet have gone through a life of WAY
      > overengineering things just because I did not know strength... and
      of
      > gradual backing down on the material until a breakage did occur.
      >
      > Maybe we should find an easy way to test straps?? Say you want to
      > say the strap is safe for 600 pound pull. So you test it to 900 or
      > 1200 pounds 5-10 times to see it that destroys it??? Let me see,
      > what around here weighs that much????? Half my car??? Maybe a big
      > fish?? You have any ideas?
      >
      > Rick
      >
      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble"
      <dpwomble@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > Christina,
      > > >
      > > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
      > > > yesterday. Look in the fabric department near the ribbons and
      > > > stuff. It seems to have been strong enough for hammock straps,
      > > which
      > > > would make it ok for tree huggers too. Cost is $.79 per yard.
      > > >
      > > > Rick
      > > >
      > >
      > > Rick,
      > >
      > > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough. If
      > you
      > > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
      > that
      > > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it didn't
      > > break the last time you used it. I think the best way is to pay
      > > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
      > with
      > > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
      > > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
      > > application in a way that a failure will not result in an injury
      > (and
      > > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again).
      > >
      > > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
      > > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about what
      > > tensile strengths he recommends. As a hammock user I would
      suggest
      > a
      > > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use in
      a
      > > hammock.
      > >
      > > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
      > enthusiasm
      > > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy with
      an
      > > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out there.
      > >
      > > Youngblood
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • karens62@aol.com
      ... Just don t let me sew the hand holds on the straps or you ll end up lying on the ground! I was recently a victim of strap failure, not because of the
      Message 2 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 5/1/2003 8:27:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, dpwomble@... writes:

        > Hey, how about a tug-of-war contest over a creek on Ed's
        > next outing to determine the tensile strength? :-)

        Just don't let me sew the hand holds on the straps or you'll end up lying on the ground!

        I was recently a "victim" of strap failure, not because of the webbing strenght, but because of the thread I used to sew the webbing together behind the knot. I knew better, but I used old cheap polyester thread instead of high quality thread and my butt met the ground unexpectedly. I was fine. No broken teeth and the only thing possibly wounded was my pride (which has taken lots of hits lately). But, since no one saw it and Ed has only teased me about it a half dozen times, I survived. It could have been much worse. Whatever cheap materials you find and test, spring for the expensive thread :)

        Karen
      • Rick
        Dave, I d suggest not tying a knot... the knotting makes the thing much weaker. I like your ideas of testing by people... Similar to my testing of the
        Message 3 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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          Dave, I'd suggest not tying a knot... the knotting makes the thing
          much weaker.

          I like your ideas of testing by people... Similar to my testing of
          the hammock by tying it up so if I fall I only fall inches.

          Since I do not have a hydraulic press at my disposal, Let's see...

          Nice thing about people is they can be moved easily.. they are self
          moving weights. Easier to get my friend to step on a platform than
          to put a 200 pound weight there myself.

          The simplest test I can think of is having two or three people sit on
          a piece of the webbing tied between two trees like a hammock...
          Assuming the piece passes, throw it away (or use it for something
          which is not weight bearing-it may be damaged) and use that type of
          webbing in the future.

          Make sure the ground under the testers is soft and that they are good
          friends with each other. Take pictures!

          Rick

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
          wrote:
          > Rick,
          >
          > I'll give the testing idea some thought. First thought I had was
          > tying it off overhead and having several people grab hold and
          > gradually let it support their weight. Second thought was to not
          tie
          > off overhead and get couple of people on each end and then
          gradually
          > let it support the weight on both ends. I'll keep thinking about
          > it. I'm sure we will gets lots of ideas...some may even make us
          > laught.
          >
          > Hey, how about a tug-of-war contest over a creek on Ed's next
          outing
          > to determine the tensile strength? :-) We could team up based on
          the
          > type of hammock we use to see who had the strongest hammock lines.
          >
          > Youngblood
          >
          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > I really appreciate it when someone calls me an enthusiastic
          > > youngster. You made my day!!!
          > >
          > > It would be wonderful to have specs on the webbing.
          Unfortunately,
          > > it is almost never available. Ed and I have had this
          conversation
          > > and it usually comes back to the fact that the manufacturer does
          > not
          > > want to be responsible for guarantees of breaking strength. They
          > > certainly do NOT want anyone putting their body weight on that
          > > strap. So getting a clear answer seems impossible.
          > >
          > > I agree with your assessment, yet have gone through a life of WAY
          > > overengineering things just because I did not know strength...
          and
          > of
          > > gradual backing down on the material until a breakage did occur.
          > >
          > > Maybe we should find an easy way to test straps?? Say you want
          to
          > > say the strap is safe for 600 pound pull. So you test it to 900
          or
          > > 1200 pounds 5-10 times to see it that destroys it??? Let me see,
          > > what around here weighs that much????? Half my car??? Maybe a
          big
          > > fish?? You have any ideas?
          > >
          > > Rick
          > >
          > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble"
          > <dpwomble@y...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick"
          <geoflyfisher@y...>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > Christina,
          > > > >
          > > > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
          > > > > yesterday. Look in the fabric department near the ribbons
          and
          > > > > stuff. It seems to have been strong enough for hammock
          straps,
          > > > which
          > > > > would make it ok for tree huggers too. Cost is $.79 per yard.
          > > > >
          > > > > Rick
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > Rick,
          > > >
          > > > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough.
          If
          > > you
          > > > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
          > > that
          > > > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it
          didn't
          > > > break the last time you used it. I think the best way is to
          pay
          > > > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
          > > with
          > > > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
          > > > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
          > > > application in a way that a failure will not result in an
          injury
          > > (and
          > > > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again).
          > > >
          > > > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
          > > > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about
          what
          > > > tensile strengths he recommends. As a hammock user I would
          > suggest
          > > a
          > > > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use
          in
          > a
          > > > hammock.
          > > >
          > > > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
          > > enthusiasm
          > > > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy
          with
          > an
          > > > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out
          there.
          > > >
          > > > Youngblood
        • Rick
          Hi Karen, Interesting thread you have started here. (da-da-da-boom) I use the all polyester thread sold places like WalMart, 50 cents per 500 yards. It was
          Message 4 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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            Hi Karen,

            Interesting thread you have started here. (da-da-da-boom)

            I use the all polyester thread sold places like WalMart, 50 cents per
            500 yards. It was all I have found that did not have a cotton
            (mercanized) cover.

            I have had nothing remotely close to a failure in a strap.

            I do use a zigzag stitch, 2mm wide, 1mm long. I sew across the strap
            (double thickness) then back up all the way across the strap, then
            come forward again. It ends up looking just like the sewing in a
            GoLite pack.

            Rick

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, karens62@a... wrote:
            > In a message dated 5/1/2003 8:27:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
            dpwomble@y... writes:
            >
            > > Hey, how about a tug-of-war contest over a creek on Ed's
            > > next outing to determine the tensile strength? :-)
            >
            > Just don't let me sew the hand holds on the straps or you'll end up
            lying on the ground!
            >
            > I was recently a "victim" of strap failure, not because of the
            webbing strenght, but because of the thread I used to sew the webbing
            together behind the knot. I knew better, but I used old cheap
            polyester thread instead of high quality thread and my butt met the
            ground unexpectedly. I was fine. No broken teeth and the only thing
            possibly wounded was my pride (which has taken lots of hits lately).
            But, since no one saw it and Ed has only teased me about it a half
            dozen times, I survived. It could have been much worse. Whatever
            cheap materials you find and test, spring for the expensive thread :)
            >
            > Karen
          • uluheman
            Christina-- Check hardware stores, sail makers, and marine supply stores for webbing. If you re inland, I assume there must be boating stores with similar
            Message 5 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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              Christina--

              Check hardware stores, sail makers, and marine supply stores for
              webbing. If you're inland, I assume there must be boating stores with
              similar gear. There's an outfit here in Honolulu called West Marine,
              which I think must be a national chain. They have a marvellous
              selection of very strong and light cordage and webbing. Also, I get
              all the stuff to make tents and hammocks from Outdoor Wilderness
              Fabrics, as others have stated here.

              Brandon in Honolulu

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Christina Moon <moonpi@i...>
              wrote:
              > Where does one find the low-memory-stretch polypropylene 1" inch
              wide
              > webbing?
              >
              > I looked in WalMart and all they have has hooks on the ends for
              towing cars.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Christina
              >
              > Blessed Be the Peacemakers!
              >
              > May Blesswings of Peace n Love surround you!
              >
              > May your Mind be filled with Wisdom.
              > May your Eyes be filled with Beauty.
              > May your Soul be filled with Peace.
              > May your Heart be filled with Love.
              > May we ALL live in a State of Grace.
              > Peace Be With You Always.
              > ~~Christina Moon
            • colonelcorn76
              OK how about this? Why not make the webbing tree huggers non- weightbearing? That would eliminate the unknown quality issues. My thought is that you take a two
              Message 6 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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                OK how about this? Why not make the webbing tree huggers non-
                weightbearing? That would eliminate the unknown quality issues. My
                thought is that you take a two or three foot long piece of 1"
                webbing and sew a similarly sized piece of silnylon to it, creating
                a sleeve (sew on the long edges and leave open on both ends of the
                webbing). Through this sleeve you run your rope -- I'd recommend
                something like Spectra which is lightweight, small diameter, and a
                known/warranted strength (I get mine from Wests Marine--I use it
                everywhere).

                When putting your tree hugger around the tree, just keep the webbing
                side toward the bark and you get the same bark/tree protection as
                any other webbing based tree hugger but the Spectra line (which ends
                up being tied to itself) is the weight bearing component and you're
                safe from random webbing failures.

                If you're a real gram-weenie, you don't even need a full length
                silnylon sleeve--just a few pieces along the length of the webbing
                to hold the line in place when you're not tied to a tree.

                Jim



                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                wrote:
                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
                > wrote:
                > > Christina,
                > >
                > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
                > > yesterday. Look in the fabric department near the ribbons and
                > > stuff. It seems to have been strong enough for hammock straps,
                > which
                > > would make it ok for tree huggers too. Cost is $.79 per yard.
                > >
                > > Rick
                > >
                >
                > Rick,
                >
                > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough. If
                you
                > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
                that
                > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it didn't
                > break the last time you used it. I think the best way is to pay
                > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
                with
                > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
                > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
                > application in a way that a failure will not result in an injury
                (and
                > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again).
                >
                > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
                > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about what
                > tensile strengths he recommends. As a hammock user I would
                suggest a
                > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use in
                a
                > hammock.
                >
                > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
                enthusiasm
                > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy with
                an
                > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out there.
                >
                > Youngblood
              • Matt Pulsts
                true. there is stretch involved in the nylon webbing. I wouldnt worry too much about it. Also, there are spectra slings which work extremely well. I just
                Message 7 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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                  true. there is  stretch involved in the nylon webbing. I wouldnt worry too much about it.  Also, there are "spectra" slings which work extremely well.  I just happened to be cleaning my gear closet right before I read this and saw my collection of slings.  Brain fart about not differentiating amongst them.  
                   
                  Just an idea if you cant find poly...
                   
                   
                  ----- Original tueMessage -----
                  From: Rick
                  Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 10:54
                  Subject: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......

                  Matt,

                  Only problem there,  if I remember this stuff from my climbing days,
                  is that the climbing webb gear stuff is almost always nylon, not
                  poly.  Unfortunately, the nylon stretches too much for hammocks. 

                  Rick

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Pulsts"
                  <mvpulsts@e...> wrote:
                  > You might also try locating you local outfitter that deals in
                  climbing gear.
                  > They will sell webbing of all sorts.  The nice thing about the
                  climbing
                  > shop's webbing is that it HAS to have been tested and weight
                  bearing specs
                  > HAVE to be available.
                  >

                  >
                  > Just a thought.
                  >

                  >
                  > Matt
                  >

                  >

                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@y...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:56 AM
                  > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......
                  >

                  >
                  > I really appreciate it when someone calls me an enthusiastic
                  > youngster.  You made my day!!!
                  >
                  > It would be wonderful to have specs on the webbing.  Unfortunately,
                  > it is almost never available.  Ed and I have had this conversation
                  > and it usually comes back to the fact that the manufacturer does
                  not
                  > want to be responsible for guarantees of breaking strength.  They
                  > certainly do NOT want anyone putting their body weight on that
                  > strap.  So getting a clear answer seems impossible.
                  >
                  > I agree with your assessment, yet have gone through a life of WAY
                  > overengineering things just because I did not know strength... and
                  of
                  > gradual backing down on the material until a breakage did occur. 
                  >
                  > Maybe we should find an easy way to test straps??  Say you want to
                  > say the strap is safe for 600 pound pull.  So you test it to 900 or
                  > 1200 pounds 5-10 times to see it that destroys it???  Let me see,
                  > what around here weighs that much?????  Half my car???  Maybe a big
                  > fish??  You have any ideas?
                  >
                  > Rick
                  >
                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble"
                  <dpwomble@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Christina,
                  > > >
                  > > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
                  > > > yesterday.  Look in the fabric department near the ribbons and
                  > > > stuff.  It seems to have been strong enough for hammock straps,
                  > > which
                  > > > would make it ok for tree huggers too.  Cost is $.79 per yard.
                  > > >
                  > > > Rick
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > Rick,
                  > >
                  > > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough.  If
                  > you
                  > > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
                  > that
                  > > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it didn't
                  > > break the last time you used it.  I think the best way is to pay
                  > > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
                  > with
                  > > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
                  > > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
                  > > application in a way that a failure will not result in an injury
                  > (and
                  > > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again). 
                  > >
                  > > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
                  > > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about what
                  > > tensile strengths he recommends.  As a hammock user I would
                  suggest
                  > a
                  > > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use in
                  a
                  > > hammock.  
                  > >
                  > > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
                  > enthusiasm
                  > > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy with
                  an
                  > > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out there.
                  > >
                  > > Youngblood
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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