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RE: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......

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  • Matthew Pulsts
    You might also try locating you local outfitter that deals in climbing gear. They will sell webbing of all sorts. The nice thing about the climbing shop s
    Message 1 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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      You might also try locating you local outfitter that deals in climbing gear.  They will sell webbing of all sorts.  The nice thing about the climbing shop’s webbing is that it HAS to have been tested and weight bearing specs HAVE to be available.

       

      Just a thought…

       

      Matt

       

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@...]
      Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:56 AM
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......

       

      I really appreciate it when someone calls me an enthusiastic
      youngster.  You made my day!!!

      It would be wonderful to have specs on the webbing.  Unfortunately,
      it is almost never available.  Ed and I have had this conversation
      and it usually comes back to the fact that the manufacturer does not
      want to be responsible for guarantees of breaking strength.  They
      certainly do NOT want anyone putting their body weight on that
      strap.  So getting a clear answer seems impossible.

      I agree with your assessment, yet have gone through a life of WAY
      overengineering things just because I did not know strength... and of
      gradual backing down on the material until a breakage did occur. 

      Maybe we should find an easy way to test straps??  Say you want to
      say the strap is safe for 600 pound pull.  So you test it to 900 or
      1200 pounds 5-10 times to see it that destroys it???  Let me see,
      what around here weighs that much?????  Half my car???  Maybe a big
      fish??  You have any ideas?

      Rick

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
      wrote:
      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > Christina,
      > >
      > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
      > > yesterday.  Look in the fabric department near the ribbons and
      > > stuff.  It seems to have been strong enough for hammock straps,
      > which
      > > would make it ok for tree huggers too.  Cost is $.79 per yard.
      > >
      > > Rick
      > >
      >
      > Rick,
      >
      > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough.  If
      you
      > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
      that
      > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it didn't
      > break the last time you used it.  I think the best way is to pay
      > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
      with
      > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
      > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
      > application in a way that a failure will not result in an injury
      (and
      > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again). 
      >
      > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
      > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about what
      > tensile strengths he recommends.  As a hammock user I would suggest
      a
      > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use in a
      > hammock.  
      >
      > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
      enthusiasm
      > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy with an
      > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out there.
      >
      > Youngblood



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    • Rick
      Matt, Only problem there, if I remember this stuff from my climbing days, is that the climbing webb gear stuff is almost always nylon, not poly.
      Message 2 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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        Matt,

        Only problem there, if I remember this stuff from my climbing days,
        is that the climbing webb gear stuff is almost always nylon, not
        poly. Unfortunately, the nylon stretches too much for hammocks.

        Rick

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Pulsts"
        <mvpulsts@e...> wrote:
        > You might also try locating you local outfitter that deals in
        climbing gear.
        > They will sell webbing of all sorts. The nice thing about the
        climbing
        > shop's webbing is that it HAS to have been tested and weight
        bearing specs
        > HAVE to be available.
        >
        >
        >
        > Just a thought.
        >
        >
        >
        > Matt
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@y...]
        > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:56 AM
        > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......
        >
        >
        >
        > I really appreciate it when someone calls me an enthusiastic
        > youngster. You made my day!!!
        >
        > It would be wonderful to have specs on the webbing. Unfortunately,
        > it is almost never available. Ed and I have had this conversation
        > and it usually comes back to the fact that the manufacturer does
        not
        > want to be responsible for guarantees of breaking strength. They
        > certainly do NOT want anyone putting their body weight on that
        > strap. So getting a clear answer seems impossible.
        >
        > I agree with your assessment, yet have gone through a life of WAY
        > overengineering things just because I did not know strength... and
        of
        > gradual backing down on the material until a breakage did occur.
        >
        > Maybe we should find an easy way to test straps?? Say you want to
        > say the strap is safe for 600 pound pull. So you test it to 900 or
        > 1200 pounds 5-10 times to see it that destroys it??? Let me see,
        > what around here weighs that much????? Half my car??? Maybe a big
        > fish?? You have any ideas?
        >
        > Rick
        >
        > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble"
        <dpwomble@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > Christina,
        > > >
        > > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
        > > > yesterday. Look in the fabric department near the ribbons and
        > > > stuff. It seems to have been strong enough for hammock straps,
        > > which
        > > > would make it ok for tree huggers too. Cost is $.79 per yard.
        > > >
        > > > Rick
        > > >
        > >
        > > Rick,
        > >
        > > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough. If
        > you
        > > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
        > that
        > > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it didn't
        > > break the last time you used it. I think the best way is to pay
        > > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
        > with
        > > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
        > > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
        > > application in a way that a failure will not result in an injury
        > (and
        > > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again).
        > >
        > > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
        > > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about what
        > > tensile strengths he recommends. As a hammock user I would
        suggest
        > a
        > > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use in
        a
        > > hammock.
        > >
        > > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
        > enthusiasm
        > > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy with
        an
        > > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out there.
        > >
        > > Youngblood
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • karens62@aol.com
        ... Just don t let me sew the hand holds on the straps or you ll end up lying on the ground! I was recently a victim of strap failure, not because of the
        Message 3 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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          In a message dated 5/1/2003 8:27:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, dpwomble@... writes:

          > Hey, how about a tug-of-war contest over a creek on Ed's
          > next outing to determine the tensile strength? :-)

          Just don't let me sew the hand holds on the straps or you'll end up lying on the ground!

          I was recently a "victim" of strap failure, not because of the webbing strenght, but because of the thread I used to sew the webbing together behind the knot. I knew better, but I used old cheap polyester thread instead of high quality thread and my butt met the ground unexpectedly. I was fine. No broken teeth and the only thing possibly wounded was my pride (which has taken lots of hits lately). But, since no one saw it and Ed has only teased me about it a half dozen times, I survived. It could have been much worse. Whatever cheap materials you find and test, spring for the expensive thread :)

          Karen
        • Rick
          Dave, I d suggest not tying a knot... the knotting makes the thing much weaker. I like your ideas of testing by people... Similar to my testing of the
          Message 4 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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            Dave, I'd suggest not tying a knot... the knotting makes the thing
            much weaker.

            I like your ideas of testing by people... Similar to my testing of
            the hammock by tying it up so if I fall I only fall inches.

            Since I do not have a hydraulic press at my disposal, Let's see...

            Nice thing about people is they can be moved easily.. they are self
            moving weights. Easier to get my friend to step on a platform than
            to put a 200 pound weight there myself.

            The simplest test I can think of is having two or three people sit on
            a piece of the webbing tied between two trees like a hammock...
            Assuming the piece passes, throw it away (or use it for something
            which is not weight bearing-it may be damaged) and use that type of
            webbing in the future.

            Make sure the ground under the testers is soft and that they are good
            friends with each other. Take pictures!

            Rick

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
            wrote:
            > Rick,
            >
            > I'll give the testing idea some thought. First thought I had was
            > tying it off overhead and having several people grab hold and
            > gradually let it support their weight. Second thought was to not
            tie
            > off overhead and get couple of people on each end and then
            gradually
            > let it support the weight on both ends. I'll keep thinking about
            > it. I'm sure we will gets lots of ideas...some may even make us
            > laught.
            >
            > Hey, how about a tug-of-war contest over a creek on Ed's next
            outing
            > to determine the tensile strength? :-) We could team up based on
            the
            > type of hammock we use to see who had the strongest hammock lines.
            >
            > Youngblood
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > I really appreciate it when someone calls me an enthusiastic
            > > youngster. You made my day!!!
            > >
            > > It would be wonderful to have specs on the webbing.
            Unfortunately,
            > > it is almost never available. Ed and I have had this
            conversation
            > > and it usually comes back to the fact that the manufacturer does
            > not
            > > want to be responsible for guarantees of breaking strength. They
            > > certainly do NOT want anyone putting their body weight on that
            > > strap. So getting a clear answer seems impossible.
            > >
            > > I agree with your assessment, yet have gone through a life of WAY
            > > overengineering things just because I did not know strength...
            and
            > of
            > > gradual backing down on the material until a breakage did occur.
            > >
            > > Maybe we should find an easy way to test straps?? Say you want
            to
            > > say the strap is safe for 600 pound pull. So you test it to 900
            or
            > > 1200 pounds 5-10 times to see it that destroys it??? Let me see,
            > > what around here weighs that much????? Half my car??? Maybe a
            big
            > > fish?? You have any ideas?
            > >
            > > Rick
            > >
            > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble"
            > <dpwomble@y...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick"
            <geoflyfisher@y...>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > > Christina,
            > > > >
            > > > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
            > > > > yesterday. Look in the fabric department near the ribbons
            and
            > > > > stuff. It seems to have been strong enough for hammock
            straps,
            > > > which
            > > > > would make it ok for tree huggers too. Cost is $.79 per yard.
            > > > >
            > > > > Rick
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > Rick,
            > > >
            > > > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough.
            If
            > > you
            > > > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
            > > that
            > > > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it
            didn't
            > > > break the last time you used it. I think the best way is to
            pay
            > > > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
            > > with
            > > > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
            > > > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
            > > > application in a way that a failure will not result in an
            injury
            > > (and
            > > > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again).
            > > >
            > > > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
            > > > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about
            what
            > > > tensile strengths he recommends. As a hammock user I would
            > suggest
            > > a
            > > > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use
            in
            > a
            > > > hammock.
            > > >
            > > > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
            > > enthusiasm
            > > > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy
            with
            > an
            > > > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out
            there.
            > > >
            > > > Youngblood
          • Rick
            Hi Karen, Interesting thread you have started here. (da-da-da-boom) I use the all polyester thread sold places like WalMart, 50 cents per 500 yards. It was
            Message 5 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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              Hi Karen,

              Interesting thread you have started here. (da-da-da-boom)

              I use the all polyester thread sold places like WalMart, 50 cents per
              500 yards. It was all I have found that did not have a cotton
              (mercanized) cover.

              I have had nothing remotely close to a failure in a strap.

              I do use a zigzag stitch, 2mm wide, 1mm long. I sew across the strap
              (double thickness) then back up all the way across the strap, then
              come forward again. It ends up looking just like the sewing in a
              GoLite pack.

              Rick

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, karens62@a... wrote:
              > In a message dated 5/1/2003 8:27:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              dpwomble@y... writes:
              >
              > > Hey, how about a tug-of-war contest over a creek on Ed's
              > > next outing to determine the tensile strength? :-)
              >
              > Just don't let me sew the hand holds on the straps or you'll end up
              lying on the ground!
              >
              > I was recently a "victim" of strap failure, not because of the
              webbing strenght, but because of the thread I used to sew the webbing
              together behind the knot. I knew better, but I used old cheap
              polyester thread instead of high quality thread and my butt met the
              ground unexpectedly. I was fine. No broken teeth and the only thing
              possibly wounded was my pride (which has taken lots of hits lately).
              But, since no one saw it and Ed has only teased me about it a half
              dozen times, I survived. It could have been much worse. Whatever
              cheap materials you find and test, spring for the expensive thread :)
              >
              > Karen
            • uluheman
              Christina-- Check hardware stores, sail makers, and marine supply stores for webbing. If you re inland, I assume there must be boating stores with similar
              Message 6 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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                Christina--

                Check hardware stores, sail makers, and marine supply stores for
                webbing. If you're inland, I assume there must be boating stores with
                similar gear. There's an outfit here in Honolulu called West Marine,
                which I think must be a national chain. They have a marvellous
                selection of very strong and light cordage and webbing. Also, I get
                all the stuff to make tents and hammocks from Outdoor Wilderness
                Fabrics, as others have stated here.

                Brandon in Honolulu

                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Christina Moon <moonpi@i...>
                wrote:
                > Where does one find the low-memory-stretch polypropylene 1" inch
                wide
                > webbing?
                >
                > I looked in WalMart and all they have has hooks on the ends for
                towing cars.
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Christina
                >
                > Blessed Be the Peacemakers!
                >
                > May Blesswings of Peace n Love surround you!
                >
                > May your Mind be filled with Wisdom.
                > May your Eyes be filled with Beauty.
                > May your Soul be filled with Peace.
                > May your Heart be filled with Love.
                > May we ALL live in a State of Grace.
                > Peace Be With You Always.
                > ~~Christina Moon
              • colonelcorn76
                OK how about this? Why not make the webbing tree huggers non- weightbearing? That would eliminate the unknown quality issues. My thought is that you take a two
                Message 7 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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                  OK how about this? Why not make the webbing tree huggers non-
                  weightbearing? That would eliminate the unknown quality issues. My
                  thought is that you take a two or three foot long piece of 1"
                  webbing and sew a similarly sized piece of silnylon to it, creating
                  a sleeve (sew on the long edges and leave open on both ends of the
                  webbing). Through this sleeve you run your rope -- I'd recommend
                  something like Spectra which is lightweight, small diameter, and a
                  known/warranted strength (I get mine from Wests Marine--I use it
                  everywhere).

                  When putting your tree hugger around the tree, just keep the webbing
                  side toward the bark and you get the same bark/tree protection as
                  any other webbing based tree hugger but the Spectra line (which ends
                  up being tied to itself) is the weight bearing component and you're
                  safe from random webbing failures.

                  If you're a real gram-weenie, you don't even need a full length
                  silnylon sleeve--just a few pieces along the length of the webbing
                  to hold the line in place when you're not tied to a tree.

                  Jim



                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Christina,
                  > >
                  > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
                  > > yesterday. Look in the fabric department near the ribbons and
                  > > stuff. It seems to have been strong enough for hammock straps,
                  > which
                  > > would make it ok for tree huggers too. Cost is $.79 per yard.
                  > >
                  > > Rick
                  > >
                  >
                  > Rick,
                  >
                  > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough. If
                  you
                  > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
                  that
                  > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it didn't
                  > break the last time you used it. I think the best way is to pay
                  > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
                  with
                  > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
                  > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
                  > application in a way that a failure will not result in an injury
                  (and
                  > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again).
                  >
                  > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
                  > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about what
                  > tensile strengths he recommends. As a hammock user I would
                  suggest a
                  > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use in
                  a
                  > hammock.
                  >
                  > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
                  enthusiasm
                  > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy with
                  an
                  > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out there.
                  >
                  > Youngblood
                • Matt Pulsts
                  true. there is stretch involved in the nylon webbing. I wouldnt worry too much about it. Also, there are spectra slings which work extremely well. I just
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 1, 2003
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                    true. there is  stretch involved in the nylon webbing. I wouldnt worry too much about it.  Also, there are "spectra" slings which work extremely well.  I just happened to be cleaning my gear closet right before I read this and saw my collection of slings.  Brain fart about not differentiating amongst them.  
                     
                    Just an idea if you cant find poly...
                     
                     
                    ----- Original tueMessage -----
                    From: Rick
                    Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 10:54
                    Subject: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......

                    Matt,

                    Only problem there,  if I remember this stuff from my climbing days,
                    is that the climbing webb gear stuff is almost always nylon, not
                    poly.  Unfortunately, the nylon stretches too much for hammocks. 

                    Rick

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Pulsts"
                    <mvpulsts@e...> wrote:
                    > You might also try locating you local outfitter that deals in
                    climbing gear.
                    > They will sell webbing of all sorts.  The nice thing about the
                    climbing
                    > shop's webbing is that it HAS to have been tested and weight
                    bearing specs
                    > HAVE to be available.
                    >

                    >
                    > Just a thought.
                    >

                    >
                    > Matt
                    >

                    >

                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Rick [mailto:geoflyfisher@y...]
                    > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:56 AM
                    > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Hammock Camping Re: tree-saver webbing straps......
                    >

                    >
                    > I really appreciate it when someone calls me an enthusiastic
                    > youngster.  You made my day!!!
                    >
                    > It would be wonderful to have specs on the webbing.  Unfortunately,
                    > it is almost never available.  Ed and I have had this conversation
                    > and it usually comes back to the fact that the manufacturer does
                    not
                    > want to be responsible for guarantees of breaking strength.  They
                    > certainly do NOT want anyone putting their body weight on that
                    > strap.  So getting a clear answer seems impossible.
                    >
                    > I agree with your assessment, yet have gone through a life of WAY
                    > overengineering things just because I did not know strength... and
                    of
                    > gradual backing down on the material until a breakage did occur. 
                    >
                    > Maybe we should find an easy way to test straps??  Say you want to
                    > say the strap is safe for 600 pound pull.  So you test it to 900 or
                    > 1200 pounds 5-10 times to see it that destroys it???  Let me see,
                    > what around here weighs that much?????  Half my car???  Maybe a big
                    > fish??  You have any ideas?
                    >
                    > Rick
                    >
                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble"
                    <dpwomble@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <geoflyfisher@y...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Christina,
                    > > >
                    > > > I bought some 1 inch poly webbing at the local Dayton WalMart
                    > > > yesterday.  Look in the fabric department near the ribbons and
                    > > > stuff.  It seems to have been strong enough for hammock straps,
                    > > which
                    > > > would make it ok for tree huggers too.  Cost is $.79 per yard.
                    > > >
                    > > > Rick
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > Rick,
                    > >
                    > > Be careful how you determine if the webbing is strong enough.  If
                    > you
                    > > use it once and it didn't break, that doesn't necessarily imply
                    > that
                    > > it is strong enough to use 100 times, all that means is it didn't
                    > > break the last time you used it.  I think the best way is to pay
                    > > attention to manufacturer's specifications, or barring that, go
                    > with
                    > > something that is obviously an over-kill for the application or
                    > > stress it once by several orders of magnitude greater than your
                    > > application in a way that a failure will not result in an injury
                    > (and
                    > > then, maybe not use that particular piece of material again). 
                    > >
                    > > I know that Ed Speer has had both good and bad experience with
                    > > different webbing and has recommendations in his book about what
                    > > tensile strengths he recommends.  As a hammock user I would
                    suggest
                    > a
                    > > little caution in recommending weight bearing material for use in
                    a
                    > > hammock.  
                    > >
                    > > Sorry to act like a wet blanket, I really appreciate your
                    > enthusiasm
                    > > and willingness to share your ideas, but being an older guy with
                    an
                    > > analytical background, I felt like I needed to put that out there.
                    > >
                    > > Youngblood
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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