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Exped reply on slow deflation

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  • jwj32542
    Here s the reply I got from Exped. Basically, he told me their products don t leak and it s my responsibility to repair a new product. Jeff ... on ... it ...
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 4, 2006
      Here's the reply I got from Exped. Basically, he told me their
      products don't leak and it's my responsibility to repair a new
      product.

      Jeff

      =============

      --- andreas.brun@... wrote:

      > Jeff,
      >
      > Be assured that is almost impossible that the mat leaks from start
      on
      >
      > because each one is tested in the factory for 4 days. The pressure
      it
      > is
      > able to sustain is as high that a car could be driven on it without
      > the
      > mat rupturing.
      > So the conclusion is that as in a bike tire there might some leak.
      > Best
      > way to test is like in a bike tube: put it in water, press hard and
      > see
      > where the bubbles come from. It is also possible that dirt clogs
      the
      > valve. But again, please test to see where the leak is.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Andy
      >
      > from the desk of:
      > Andreas Brun, lic.oec.
      > Innovation + IT manager
      > Exped AG
      > Hardstr. 81
      > CH-8004 Zurich
      > Switzerland
      > site: http://www.exped.com
      > email: andreas.brun@...

      ===========

      > J J jwj32542@... 03.01.2006 00:41
      >
      > I recently purchased the Downmat 7 and have found that it slowly
      > deflates overnight. When I use it in my hammock, it provides
      > adequate
      > insulation overnight and I reinflate it each day before going to
      > bed...no big deal.
      >
      > But I used it on a snow-camping trip in December and it deflated
      > enough
      > to be uncomfortable. I inflated it fully at about 7 pm, and at 1-2
      > am
      > I could feel my hips getting cold when I laid on my side. A little
      > bit
      > of flex, and my hips would touch the snow underneath. That amount
      of
      > deflation is unacceptable, as I had to either sleep only on my
      > stomach
      > and back, or get out of my bag to reinflate it.
      >
      > I have spoken to a few others who have experienced this problem.
      Is
      > there an easy fix? Other than this deflation, I really like this
      > gear.
      >
      > Thanks for your help!
      >
      > Jeff
    • jwj32542
      He just sent me another reply asking about the valve and such. I m glad he s following up further...I was pretty put off by the first reply. Thought it was
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 4, 2006
        He just sent me another reply asking about the valve and such. I'm
        glad he's following up further...I was pretty put off by the first
        reply. Thought it was fair to Exped to mention that here since I
        posted the first unsat reply.

        Jeff

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Here's the reply I got from Exped. Basically, he told me their
        > products don't leak and it's my responsibility to repair a new
        > product.
      • Michael B. Carter
        I ve been following this thread with some interest. I am not affiliated with any gear manufacturer - I work in telecom and industrial control electronics, at
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
          I've been following this thread with some interest. I am not affiliated
          with any gear manufacturer - I work in telecom and industrial control
          electronics, at least until the June layoff :o). What follows is my
          experience and personal opinions.

          I bought an Exped Downmat 7 shortly before Christmas.
          I've used it twice in the field, and been extremely careful with it. It
          has only been used in my hammock, never on the ground.
          It DEFINITELY has a slow leak. Ed mentioned on our Mt. Mitchell trip that
          he had repaired a leak on his Exped, and asked me if I had had any leaks
          with mine.
          I decided to do a test. When I got home, I inflated it until it was
          moderately firm, made sure both valves were closed, and placed it on the
          bed in my spare room. I also inflated two VERY well used thermarest
          mattresses as "controls". Three days later the Exped was deflated until it
          was floppy (both thermarests were still fully inflated). I re-inflated the
          DAM, and the same thing happened again. Due to other priorities I have not
          had time to test where the leak is. I am very gentle on my gear, and I
          have used thermarest mattresses for years w/o leaks. I wonder if there is
          a problem with the Exped, either in durability (feels tough to my hand),
          design or manufacture. A new mattress (particularly in this price range)
          should not leak air. Having said all of that, I like the comfort and
          warmth of the mattress, and intend to repair it if possible, and continue
          to use it. When I figure out where the leak is I will repost.

          Michael

          At 04:36 AM 1/5/06 +0000, you wrote:
          >Here's the reply I got from Exped. Basically, he told me their
          >products don't leak and it's my responsibility to repair a new
          >product.
          >
          >Jeff
          >
          >=============
          >
          >--- andreas.brun@... wrote:
          >
          > > Jeff,
          > >
          > > Be assured that is almost impossible that the mat leaks from start
          >on
          > >
          > > because each one is tested in the factory for 4 days. The pressure
          >it
          > > is
          > > able to sustain is as high that a car could be driven on it without
          > > the
          > > mat rupturing.
          > > So the conclusion is that as in a bike tire there might some leak.
          > > Best
          > > way to test is like in a bike tube: put it in water, press hard and
          > > see
          > > where the bubbles come from. It is also possible that dirt clogs
          >the
          > > valve. But again, please test to see where the leak is.
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > >
          > > Andy
          > >
          > > from the desk of:
          > > Andreas Brun, lic.oec.
          > > Innovation + IT manager
          > > Exped AG
          > > Hardstr. 81
          > > CH-8004 Zurich
          > > Switzerland
          > > site: <http://www.exped.com>http://www.exped.com
          > > email: andreas.brun@...
          >
          >===========
          >
          > > J J jwj32542@... 03.01.2006 00:41
          > >
          > > I recently purchased the Downmat 7 and have found that it slowly
          > > deflates overnight. When I use it in my hammock, it provides
          > > adequate
          > > insulation overnight and I reinflate it each day before going to
          > > bed...no big deal.
          > >
          > > But I used it on a snow-camping trip in December and it deflated
          > > enough
          > > to be uncomfortable. I inflated it fully at about 7 pm, and at 1-2
          > > am
          > > I could feel my hips getting cold when I laid on my side. A little
          > > bit
          > > of flex, and my hips would touch the snow underneath. That amount
          >of
          > > deflation is unacceptable, as I had to either sleep only on my
          > > stomach
          > > and back, or get out of my bag to reinflate it.
          > >
          > > I have spoken to a few others who have experienced this problem.
          >Is
          > > there an easy fix? Other than this deflation, I really like this
          > > gear.
          > >
          > > Thanks for your help!
          > >
          > > Jeff
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • J.D. Hoessle
          ... Quite frankly, I find that kind of response short-sighted and down right stupid! That is *NOT* the way to respond to complaints/concerns nor is it good
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...> wrote:
            > Here's the reply I got from Exped. Basically, he told me their
            > products don't leak and it's my responsibility to repair a new
            > product.

            Quite frankly, I find that kind of response short-sighted and down
            right stupid! That is *NOT* the way to respond to
            complaints/concerns nor is it good PR for any company to just throw it
            back on you.

            Of course, I understand "User Error" which is probably MY problem.
            But, it would appear that you have a legit situation.

            Geeesssccchhhhh!

            Happy Trails,

            J.D.
          • J.D. Hoessle
            ... OK. That s better! J.D.
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...> wrote:
              > He just sent me another reply asking about the valve and such. I'm
              > glad he's following up further...I was pretty put off by the first
              > reply. Thought it was fair to Exped to mention that here since I
              > posted the first unsat reply.

              OK. That's better!

              J.D.
            • J.D. Hoessle
              ... Thanks, Michael! Like everyone else, I like the comfort/warmth/weight too. Your testing/experiments will be something I will be following along with this
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Michael B. Carter"
                <carterm@m...> wrote:
                > I've been following this thread with some interest.
                ...<snip>...
                > I bought an Exped Downmat 7 shortly before Christmas.
                > It DEFINITELY has a slow leak.
                ...<snip>...
                > Having said all of that, I like the comfort and
                > warmth of the mattress, and intend to repair it if possible, and
                > continue to use it. When I figure out where the leak is I will
                > repost.

                Thanks, Michael!

                Like everyone else, I like the comfort/warmth/weight too. Your
                testing/experiments will be something I will be following along with
                this thread.

                Years ago, I learned about a phenomena called "vinyl migration" which
                involves a certain "bleeding" of petro-based materials over time with
                heat and pressure. Altho' I am no engineer-type like some of you
                folks, I am now wondering if the bonding of the fabrics to the outside
                is somehow deficient/faulty. If the "gluing" or heat-process affixing
                the outer protective layers is altering the adhesion (over time), I
                can see air molecules escaping more rapidly. This happens with
                automotive tires which is why they are now successfully using nitrogen
                for inflation. Oh, Great! Now I will be carrying a tank of nitrogen
                to inflate the Exped...<g>...!

                Sure hope that Exped personnel and/or one of their distributors here
                in the U.S. are following this thread too.

                Happy Trails,

                J.D.
              • Ed Speer
                We ve all been following this thread with great interest. I ve had both problems with my Exped-a slow leak caused by abrasion of the fabric at the base of one
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                  We've all been following this thread with great interest. I've had both
                  problems with my Exped-a slow leak caused by abrasion of the fabric at the
                  base of one of the valves and a valve not closing properly in cold weather.
                  The pad has less than 10 nights of use. The slow leak was easily patched,
                  but was a nuisance until patched. It was Michael C on our recent Mt
                  Mitchell winter trip who solved my unclosed valve problem. We were both
                  trying to inflate our Expeds at the same time in 30F temps. I was getting
                  quite frustrated as 10 bag-fulls of air didn't fill the pad. Michael
                  mentioned he was having the same problem-then he noticed the second valve on
                  his pad was not completely closed. That's exactly what was happening to my
                  pas as well. We both were successful after strongly twisting the valves
                  closed-much tighter than normal. Seems this is only a problem in cold
                  temps? Thanks to Michael, I managed to fully inflate my Exped and was
                  toasty warm on the cold ground (1" of ice!) that night on Mitchell!



                  I've owned many inflatable sleeping pads over the past 40 years and all
                  eventually leaked. This includes all of the popular brands. Thus my
                  confidence in inflatables is low and I would not take one in Arctic
                  conditions-however, I do still use them a lot. The good news is that they
                  can almost always be patched. I recommend Pliobond General Purpose Adhesive
                  (W.J. Ruscoe Co, Akron, Ohio). Hard to find-try hobby or fly fishing shops
                  or Google online. Use without a patch for small holes or use with a patch
                  fabric for large holes. I replace the adhesive that comes in regular repair
                  kits and use Pliobond instead-use the patch fabric in the kits if
                  necessary..Ed



                  Moderator, Hammock Camping List
                  Author, Hammock Camping, The Complete Guide

                  Editor, Hammock Camping News

                  Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



                  _____

                  From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of Michael B. Carter
                  Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 6:28 AM
                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: {Spam?} Re: [Hammock Camping] Exped reply on slow deflation



                  I've been following this thread with some interest. I am not affiliated
                  with any gear manufacturer - I work in telecom and industrial control
                  electronics, at least until the June layoff :o). What follows is my
                  experience and personal opinions.

                  I bought an Exped Downmat 7 shortly before Christmas.
                  I've used it twice in the field, and been extremely careful with it. It
                  has only been used in my hammock, never on the ground.
                  It DEFINITELY has a slow leak. Ed mentioned on our Mt. Mitchell trip that
                  he had repaired a leak on his Exped, and asked me if I had had any leaks
                  with mine.
                  I decided to do a test. When I got home, I inflated it until it was
                  moderately firm, made sure both valves were closed, and placed it on the
                  bed in my spare room. I also inflated two VERY well used thermarest
                  mattresses as "controls". Three days later the Exped was deflated until it
                  was floppy (both thermarests were still fully inflated). I re-inflated the
                  DAM, and the same thing happened again. Due to other priorities I have not
                  had time to test where the leak is. I am very gentle on my gear, and I
                  have used thermarest mattresses for years w/o leaks. I wonder if there is
                  a problem with the Exped, either in durability (feels tough to my hand),
                  design or manufacture. A new mattress (particularly in this price range)
                  should not leak air. Having said all of that, I like the comfort and
                  warmth of the mattress, and intend to repair it if possible, and continue
                  to use it. When I figure out where the leak is I will repost.

                  Michael





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bill in Houston
                  Some silicone grease or a drop of silicone spray on the threads and mating surfaces of the valves might make it easier to give it that little extra turn...
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                    Some silicone grease or a drop of silicone spray on the threads and
                    mating surfaces of the valves might make it easier to give it that
                    little extra turn...

                    Bill in Houston

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <ed@s...> wrote:
                    > We both were successful after strongly twisting the valves
                    > closed-much tighter than normal. Seems this is only a problem in cold
                    > temps?
                  • jwj32542
                    ... had both ... fabric at the ... weather. ... Ed, do you mind if I forward this email to Exped? I m not sure he believes that I know others who are having
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <ed@s...> wrote:
                      >
                      > We've all been following this thread with great interest. I've
                      had both
                      > problems with my Exped-a slow leak caused by abrasion of the
                      fabric at the
                      > base of one of the valves and a valve not closing properly in cold
                      weather.
                      > The pad has less than 10 nights of use.

                      Ed, do you mind if I forward this email to Exped? I'm not sure he
                      believes that I know others who are having this problem.

                      I wondered if it was something to do with using it in a hammock, but
                      I experienced the problem on the ground (after having used it in the
                      hammock a few times), and the guys on WB never used it in a
                      hammock. They returned it for a second pad, which also deflated, so
                      I don't think it's anything to do with the hammock.

                      Jeff
                    • Ed Speer
                      Sure Jeff-it s OK to use my post. I too had wondered if the less-than tight valve might be loosened or un-screwed by friction against the hammock fabric, but
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                        Sure Jeff-it's OK to use my post. I too had wondered if the less-than tight
                        valve might be loosened or un-screwed by friction against the hammock
                        fabric, but it doesn't make sense. The valves are plastic, so they can
                        probably be easily damaged by over-tightening. So maybe in cold weather I'm
                        just not tightening them enough; although I'm afraid of over tightening and
                        damaging them..Ed



                        Moderator, Hammock Camping List
                        Author, Hammock Camping, The Complete Guide

                        Editor, Hammock Camping News

                        Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



                        _____

                        From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of jwj32542
                        Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:48 PM
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Exped reply on slow deflation



                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <ed@s...> wrote:
                        >
                        > We've all been following this thread with great interest. I've
                        had both
                        > problems with my Exped-a slow leak caused by abrasion of the
                        fabric at the
                        > base of one of the valves and a valve not closing properly in cold
                        weather.
                        > The pad has less than 10 nights of use.

                        Ed, do you mind if I forward this email to Exped? I'm not sure he
                        believes that I know others who are having this problem.

                        I wondered if it was something to do with using it in a hammock, but
                        I experienced the problem on the ground (after having used it in the
                        hammock a few times), and the guys on WB never used it in a
                        hammock. They returned it for a second pad, which also deflated, so
                        I don't think it's anything to do with the hammock.

                        Jeff






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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • jwj32542
                        ... than tight ... can ... weather I m ... tightening and ... At Winnemucca, the valve would open at the slightest touch against the hammock. I had to crank
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <ed@s...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Sure Jeff-it's OK to use my post. I too had wondered if the less-
                          than tight
                          > valve might be loosened or un-screwed by friction against the hammock
                          > fabric, but it doesn't make sense. The valves are plastic, so they
                          can
                          > probably be easily damaged by over-tightening. So maybe in cold
                          weather I'm
                          > just not tightening them enough; although I'm afraid of over
                          tightening and
                          > damaging them..Ed

                          At Winnemucca, the valve would open at the slightest touch against the
                          hammock. I had to crank it down very very hard to get it to click
                          into place. Again, this isn't an issue in warmer weather.

                          I'll send your post on tonight. Thanks.

                          Jeff
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