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Re: DAM Dilemma - Exped or Warmlite?

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  • jwj32542
    Happy New Year! I have the Exped Downmat 7. The outer fabric is very comfortable and wicks away condensation pretty well, in my experience. The Downmat 7 is
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
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      Happy New Year!

      I have the Exped Downmat 7. The outer fabric is very comfortable
      and wicks away condensation pretty well, in my experience.

      The Downmat 7 is 19" wide, and it's _almost_ enough to use that
      without any other side insulation because it makes me sit up so
      high. Very nice...but not quite enough. I don't know which would
      be better - that one with the SPE or getting the 26" wide
      version...I think it would depend on how the 26" wide one fits in
      your hammock. Just something to consider.

      I'm pretty impressed with the insulation. Depending on wind, I
      think it _may_ be enough bottom insulation to get to zero without
      any CCF pads. For the weight and bulk, you might consider making a
      TravelPod instead of carrying an additional pad. IMO, it'll be more
      useful at those temps than another pad. Of course, then you won't
      have a sit pad to carry around camp.

      It isn't really difficult to inflate after a few times practicing.
      I had a hard time locking the inflation valve in cold weather,
      though...had to twist really hard before it popped into position,
      which was very frustrating until I figured out what was happening.

      BUT mine seems to have a deflation problem, and I've heard this from
      a few others. It's usually good enough for the hammock, but when I
      used it on the ground on the Winnemucca trip it deflated enough over
      about 5-6 hours that I could feel the coolness from the snow coming
      through to my hip. If I bent my body just a little bit my hip would
      touch the snow underneath.

      I haven't used the Warmlite so I can't compare, but I like the
      Downmat and I think it's great for cold temps. The inflation thing
      isn't a big deal unless you lose the inflation bag in the field, but
      the deflation problem is something I'd like to figure out.

      Hope this helps!

      Jeff
    • richard_nisley
      I also have experienced the Downmat7 loosing air slowly. I exchanged it at REI for a different Downmat7 and it also exhibits the same problem. I asked the REI
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
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        I also have experienced the Downmat7 loosing air slowly. I exchanged it
        at REI for a different Downmat7 and it also exhibits the same problem.
        I asked the REI sales clerk if any other Downmat 7s were returned for
        leaking air and he said, "You are the first". I tried going to the
        Exped Web site to see if they had a customer service contact email
        address but, I couldn't find anything. I am very satisfied with the
        comfort and warmth of this product... it is near perfect. If the slow
        leak issue was solvable it would be perfect.

        Richard

        > the deflation problem is something I'd like to figure out.
        >
        > Hope this helps!
        >
        > Jeff
        >
      • dlfrost_1
        ... Warmlite ... fabric ... You should do a search of this group at the Yahoo Groups site--this was a topic of discussion some weeks back, along with the SPE.
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 1, 2006
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jonas4321" <jonas4321@j...>
          wrote:
          > Does anyone have experience with the Exped and/or the Warmlite? They
          > are roughly comparable in price, though the dimensions on the
          Warmlite
          > are difficult to decipher, as they appear to be "casket"-shaped (is
          > that true?).
          >
          > I hear they are both a bit clumsy to inflate, but would like some
          > feedback on that. I'd also like to know what the outer material
          fabric
          > is like.
          >
          > In either case, I believe I will be getting the 26" wide model.

          You should do a search of this group at the Yahoo Groups site--this
          was a topic of discussion some weeks back, along with the SPE.

          I suggest getting the regular Downmat 7 and using Ed Speer's
          Segmented Pad Extender with it. (The SPE "wings" provide the
          shoulder protection, allowing use of regular-width pads. The 8x
          version is for winter use.) It will weigh less, be less bulky to
          pack, and is more flexible to set up for different tempratures. The
          gray pads Ed sells are better for hammocking than the ones sold in
          the stores.
          http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/PRODUCTLINK2.htm
          (The topmost photo shows an end-on view with a Downmat 7 inserted.)

          Doug Frost
        • J.D. Hoessle
          ... Yes. I agree with Doug s comments above. I have been using the Exped Downmat 7 (long) with the SPE and it is GREAT!!!! I have been too warm at 14F -
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dlfrost_1" <dlfrost@a...> wrote:
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jonas4321" <jonas4321@j...>
            > wrote:
            > > Does anyone have experience with the Exped and/or the Warmlite?
            ...<snip>...
            > I suggest getting the regular Downmat 7 and using Ed Speer's
            > Segmented Pad Extender with it. (The SPE "wings" provide the
            > shoulder protection, allowing use of regular-width pads. The 8x
            > version is for winter use.) It will weigh less, be less bulky to
            > pack, and is more flexible to set up for different tempratures.

            Yes. I agree with Doug's comments above. I have been using the Exped
            Downmat 7 (long) with the SPE and it is GREAT!!!! I have been too
            warm at 14F - meaning that I had to get OUT of my 5F slpg. bag and
            just throw it over me as a top blanket. For Springer, I used Mr.
            Speer's "FrogSac" as a top blanket and I was toasty!

            Fabric: Top is non-slippery and kinda like fleece in wicking. Bottom
            is also non-slippery

            I use it INSIDE a Speer and it does allow you to ride a bit "higher"
            and it causes the Speer to "wrap" around you a bit - thus the SPE.

            No experience with the Warmlite. Co$t steered me to the Exped.

            Happy Trails,

            J.D.
          • J.D. Hoessle
            ... Well... Well... Well....!!! Perhaps ... Maybe ... I just experienced this on Springer....? Because of the celebrations ... ..., I thought I had
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "richard_nisley"
              <richard_nisley@m...> wrote:
              > I also have experienced the Downmat7 loosing air slowly.
              ...<snip>...
              > I am very satisfied with the
              > comfort and warmth of this product... it is near perfect. If the
              > slow leak issue was solvable it would be perfect.
              > Richard
              ...<snip>...
              > > the deflation problem is something I'd like to figure out.
              > > Jeff

              Well... Well... Well....!!!

              "Perhaps"... "Maybe"... I just experienced this on Springer....?

              Because of the "celebrations"...<g>..., I thought I had just hit one
              of the inflation valves with my foot causing it to lose air...? It
              happened TWICE during the night.

              I was *NOT* awake enough to think about turning it to put the valves
              near my head... It was NOT a matter of the colder air, it was a total
              loss of air/inflation.

              This was the 7th or 8th time I have used the Exped without ANY
              problems. As Richard says above: "I am very satisfied with the
              comfort and warmth of this product... it is near perfect"

              I will be testing in the back yard over the next couple weeks. I
              would appreciate anything else you folks discover. With two incidents
              and now my "possible" incident, we should be able to elicit a response
              from Exped.

              Happy Trails,

              J.D.
            • J.D. Hoessle
              ... Jonas, I just re-read the above... I don t think you will need the ccf pads. Purchase or make an SPE. Because the hammock will tend to wall you in
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jonas4321" <jonas4321@j...> wrote:
                > I don't care if I can fit the DAM in between the layers, I will be
                > putting CCF pads in there (I am going for 0*F and lower). I envision
                > the DAM being in the hammock with me. I am certain (at this point,
                > anyway) that I don't want an underquilt, as weight is not my primary
                > concern.

                Jonas, I just re-read the above... I don't think you will need the
                ccf pads. Purchase or make an SPE. Because the hammock will tend to
                "wall" you in (Think the letter "U"), your knees/elbows get cold
                against the sides when you toss & turn or side-sleep. If you are not
                familiar with the SPE, take a look at Mr. Speer's site. BTW, the SPE
                is designed to hold the *** 20" **** wide pads. Wider than that will
                be problematic in the hammock causing you to be way too high.

                > I hear they are both a bit clumsy to inflate, but would like some
                > feedback on that.

                The FIRST time, it took 15 or more bags-of-air. Since then, I have it
                "firm" in 5 or 6 puffs.

                > In either case, I believe I will be getting the 26" wide model.

                See above. I think you will have some problems with the wider 26"
                version. What kind of hammock are you using...? Try putting a rigid
                piece of cardboard in there that is 26" wide and I think you will see
                what I am saying.

                Happy Trails,

                J.D.
              • jwj32542
                ... I found on the Winnemucca trip that I had to twist the valve REALLY hard to get it to lock. At first, it felt like it had locked with an easy twist, but
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "J.D. Hoessle" <JD@H...>
                  wrote:
                  > I thought I had just hit one
                  > of the inflation valves with my foot causing it to lose air...? It
                  > happened TWICE during the night.

                  I found on the Winnemucca trip that I had to twist the valve REALLY
                  hard to get it to lock. At first, it felt like it had locked with
                  an easy twist, but it kept coming loose at the slightest touch.
                  When I really cranked down on it, I felt it really lock. I hadn't
                  experienced this problem above freezing.

                  > With two incidents
                  > and now my "possible" incident, we should be able to elicit a
                  response
                  > from Exped.

                  I have an email into them already...I figure it'll take a few days
                  to get a response, but we'll see. Might help if everyone who has
                  experienced this sends one, also. Mine went to heidi at exped dot
                  com...she's the boss of product management or something like that.

                  Jeff
                • togetherinparis
                  Warmlite is mummy-shaped, with greater loft than the Exped 9 Delux, wider where it counts, and 17 ounces lighter. It s a no-brainer. With the Warmlight down
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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                    Warmlite is mummy-shaped, with greater loft than the Exped 9 Delux, wider where it
                    counts, and 17 ounces lighter. It's a no-brainer. With the Warmlight down air mattress
                    you can be really comfortable on a shelter floor, if necessary, and warm, to boot.
                    Stephenson's has been making down air mats for decades & have the kinks out, for the
                    most part. (You still have to seam-seal the pump-sack.) For instance, they know what
                    causes ultra-slow leaks & what needs to be done. Their products are great.
                    However, the Stephensons warmlite website, www.warmlite.com, is the Soup Nazi: naked,
                    stupid, and slow. Public frontal nudity is family tradition at Stephenson's. I am perfectly
                    serious. His own mother glows buck buck on the front page! And if the convoluted &
                    breathless "explanations" of an ultra-stupid yankee suit you, it's a hoot. Orders are with
                    writen paper check only, delivered by snail mail only, and you must telephone repeatedly
                    to get that far, all followed by suspense for a SEASON before delivery. Wait, it gets worse!
                    There is no retail, anywhere, so you're stuck in the Twilight Zone permanently if you buy
                    from them.
                    Meanwhile, their products are great, inspired, even. One pictures a village of the naked
                    hippy damned living as nomads in excellent tents: sex and sewing, sewing and sex, sex
                    and sewing, sewing & sex...
                  • Lenny Nichols
                    I didn t phone Stephenson s. I just ordered via snail mail with a Cashier s Check. I had my DAM in about 10 days. No problems. It works great. Lenny Nichols
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                      I didn't phone Stephenson's. I just ordered via snail mail with a Cashier's
                      Check. I had my DAM in about 10 days. No problems. It works great.

                      Lenny Nichols

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • J.D. Hoessle
                      ... Jeff, Unpacking this AM from Springer and took another look after your comments above. Yes, that s probably what happened to me - not twisting that extra
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...> wrote:
                        > I found on the Winnemucca trip that I had to twist the valve REALLY
                        > hard to get it to lock. At first, it felt like it had locked with
                        > an easy twist, but it kept coming loose at the slightest touch.
                        > When I really cranked down on it, I felt it really lock. I hadn't
                        > experienced this problem above freezing.

                        Jeff,

                        Unpacking this AM from Springer and took another look after your
                        comments above. Yes, that's probably what happened to me - not
                        twisting that extra little bit. In the bright light of today, I
                        realized I had never noticed that....!!! Of course, the Snake Bite
                        medicince didn't help on the Springer adventure...<g>...

                        I will continue to back yard test and report any further problems.

                        Thanks for your comments!

                        Happy Trails,

                        J.D.
                      • jonas4321
                        Lenny and Paris- For the Warmlite DAM s you own, can you tell me the width dimensions at the head, shoulder and foot (since it s mummy-shaped, it s tough to
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                          Lenny and Paris-

                          For the Warmlite DAM's you own, can you tell me the width dimensions
                          at the head, shoulder and foot (since it's mummy-shaped, it's tough to
                          know from the picture how much taper there is).

                          Given everyone's feedback, I'll probably buy (or make) a pad extender
                          to fit whichever DAM I get. Sounds easier than inserting 2 CCF pads
                          between the bottom layers of my ZHammock and spreading them to create
                          "side" insulation like I usually do. Less bulky to pack, too.

                          J
                        • Dave Womble
                          I m not Lenny and Paris, but I have the dimensions I measured on mine handy. Mine is their 70 girth size. It is 80 long, 10 wide at the head, 28 wide at
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                            I'm not Lenny and Paris, but I have the dimensions I measured on mine
                            handy. Mine is their 70" girth size. It is 80" long, 10" wide at the
                            head, 28" wide at the shoulders (measured 16" from the head) and 16"
                            wide at the foot. It is 4+ inches thick and with the inflation/stuff
                            sack it weighs almost 2 lbs, I think it's right at 31 ounces.

                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jonas4321" <jonas4321@j...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Lenny and Paris-
                            >
                            > For the Warmlite DAM's you own, can you tell me the width dimensions
                            > at the head, shoulder and foot (since it's mummy-shaped, it's tough to
                            > know from the picture how much taper there is).
                            >
                            > Given everyone's feedback, I'll probably buy (or make) a pad extender
                            > to fit whichever DAM I get. Sounds easier than inserting 2 CCF pads
                            > between the bottom layers of my ZHammock and spreading them to create
                            > "side" insulation like I usually do. Less bulky to pack, too.
                            >
                            > J
                            >
                          • Dave Womble
                            Forgot to mention that the length is a funny number in a hammock. You lose some of the usable length due to the thickness/curved nature of a hammock. I m
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                              Forgot to mention that the length is a 'funny' number in a hammock.
                              You lose some of the usable length due to the thickness/curved nature
                              of a hammock. I'm 72" tall and I'm guessing that mine has about 2 to
                              4 inches extra in my hammock, certainly not the 8" I have on flat
                              surfaces.


                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > I'm not Lenny and Paris, but I have the dimensions I measured on
                              mine
                              > handy. Mine is their 70" girth size. It is 80" long, 10" wide at
                              the
                              > head, 28" wide at the shoulders (measured 16" from the head) and
                              16"
                              > wide at the foot. It is 4+ inches thick and with the
                              inflation/stuff
                              > sack it weighs almost 2 lbs, I think it's right at 31 ounces.
                              >
                              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jonas4321" <jonas4321@j...>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Lenny and Paris-
                              > >
                              > > For the Warmlite DAM's you own, can you tell me the width
                              dimensions
                              > > at the head, shoulder and foot (since it's mummy-shaped, it's
                              tough to
                              > > know from the picture how much taper there is).
                              > >
                              > > Given everyone's feedback, I'll probably buy (or make) a pad
                              extender
                              > > to fit whichever DAM I get. Sounds easier than inserting 2 CCF
                              pads
                              > > between the bottom layers of my ZHammock and spreading them to
                              create
                              > > "side" insulation like I usually do. Less bulky to pack, too.
                              > >
                              > > J
                              > >
                              >
                            • Aris Dennis
                              HI all, I m going to make one of Risk s Z hammocks, but haven t decided on material yet. I was reading on Ray Garlingtons page about 8mm silk, which is
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                                HI all,

                                I'm going to make one of Risk's Z hammocks, but
                                haven't decided on material yet. I was reading on Ray
                                Garlingtons page about 8mm silk, which is aparently
                                around 1 oz. Should I use two layers of this, or two
                                layer of 1.1oz ripstop?
                                I weigh 200lb so I'd like it to hold my weight...

                                Any thoughts appreciated.

                                Aris



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                              • keng
                                Hello, i weight slightly under 130lb and had the 8mm silk....it did not hold my weight as i tight mine to tight, which i like it to be, may be you might want
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                                  Hello,

                                  i weight slightly under 130lb and had the 8mm silk....it did not
                                  hold my weight as i tight mine to tight, which i like it to be, may
                                  be you might want to consider the 10mm or something stronger

                                  Cheers
                                  keng



                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Aris Dennis <apfel1984@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > HI all,
                                  >
                                  > I'm going to make one of Risk's Z hammocks, but
                                  > haven't decided on material yet. I was reading on Ray
                                  > Garlingtons page about 8mm silk, which is aparently
                                  > around 1 oz. Should I use two layers of this, or two
                                  > layer of 1.1oz ripstop?
                                  > I weigh 200lb so I'd like it to hold my weight...
                                  >
                                  > Any thoughts appreciated.
                                  >
                                  > Aris
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________
                                  > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
                                  > Just $16.99/mo. or less.
                                  > dsl.yahoo.com
                                  >
                                • dlfrost_1
                                  ... 16 ... inflation/stuff ... Something to keep in mind about the extra width of the Warmlite DAM is whether or not it will work with the curve of your
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Mine is their 70" girth size. It is 80" long, 10" wide at the
                                    > head, 28" wide at the shoulders (measured 16" from the head) and
                                    16"
                                    > wide at the foot. It is 4+ inches thick and with the
                                    inflation/stuff
                                    > sack it weighs almost 2 lbs, I think it's right at 31 ounces.

                                    Something to keep in mind about the extra width of the Warmlite DAM
                                    is whether or not it will work with the curve of your particular
                                    hammock. If it's U-shaped when occupied you (and your bag/quilt)
                                    might not fit because inches of space will be taken up along each
                                    side where the DAM curves upwards. And your hammock will have to
                                    have _some_ extra depth to it because you'll be sitting 4 inches
                                    higher then usual. Not true for all hammocks, of course... just
                                    something to keep in mind.

                                    Doug Frost
                                  • Lenny Nichols
                                    My Stephenson s DAM is sold as the 64. It s 70 long. The width dimensions are: Head = 10 Shoulder = 28 Foot = 20 I measured it uninflated. Lenny Nichols
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                                      My Stephenson's DAM is sold as the 64. It's 70" long. The width dimensions
                                      are:
                                      Head = 10"
                                      Shoulder = 28"
                                      Foot = 20"

                                      I measured it uninflated.

                                      Lenny Nichols

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • David Wills
                                      ... I have a 10mm silk speer type hammock and it is plenty sturdy. I weigh 175, so the 8mm double layer should suit you very well and give a significant
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Aris Dennis <apfel1984@y...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > HI all,
                                        >
                                        > I'm going to make one of Risk's Z hammocks, but
                                        > haven't decided on material yet. I was reading on Ray
                                        > Garlingtons page about 8mm silk, which is aparently
                                        > around 1 oz. Should I use two layers of this, or two
                                        > layer of 1.1oz ripstop?
                                        > I weigh 200lb so I'd like it to hold my weight...
                                        >
                                        > Any thoughts appreciated.
                                        >
                                        > Aris

                                        I have a 10mm silk speer type hammock and it is plenty sturdy. I
                                        weigh 175, so the 8mm double layer should suit you very well and give
                                        a significant safety margin. The silk is really comfy too, but gets
                                        nasty looking quickly, which adds character... David with no trailname
                                      • jonas4321
                                        Thank you all for your advice, opinions and experience. I just overnighted a check to Warmlite for the 70 DAM (the largest one), I ll let you know what
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 5, 2006
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                                          Thank you all for your advice, opinions and experience. I just
                                          overnighted a check to Warmlite for the 70" DAM (the largest one),
                                          I'll let you know what happens. I hope to field test it in the
                                          Adirondacks the weekend of the 20th (they are pretty sure they can
                                          have it to me by then). I have a cabin right next to me for a bail-out
                                          if needed.

                                          I'm experimenting with a Coleman air mattress now to see if I need to
                                          adjust the "raise" of the sides in my Speer-type hammock, given that I
                                          know I'll be riding higher. Gotta love those double sheet bend ends-
                                          piece of cake to undo and redo! Thanks again to whoever suggested that.

                                          Jonas
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