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Re: [Hammock Camping] Layering?

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  • PennyBright
    ... Yeah, that s the idea. *lol* the fleece liner/summer weight bag being what I ve got that I could use on the trail. Right now I m trying to work with
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 30, 2005
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      On 11/30/05, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
      >
      > "you`ll brobably want to test what you would actualy be using on the
      > trail". --



      Yeah, that's the idea. *lol* the fleece liner/summer weight bag being
      what I've got that I could use on the trail.

      Right now I'm trying to work with what I have to see if I can make a
      working, not too heavy, winter system. If I can't put something together
      with my current stuff, then I'll work up ideas about what gear I might want
      to gift myself with before next year, but right now my budget just won't go
      there.

      Bill, I am totally there on needing the blue pad underneath me... I'm
      wondering if putting liner around the blue pad and my bag might work well --
      sort of like the Big Agnes bags have that pad pocket. Provide the extra
      insulating layer, and help keep the blue pad from sliding around.

      It looks like I'm looking at about 25 degree temps tomorrow night.....
      we'll see how it goes.

      Anna



      http://long_trails.blogspot.com/


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • AndrĂ© Corterier
      Careful with the term dead air space . Dead air space is dead (as in: the air does not move around in it enough to effect convective heat loss) only when
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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        Careful with the term "dead air space". Dead air space is "dead" (as
        in: the air does not move around in it enough to effect convective
        heat loss) only when the volume of air is small. Hence, down
        insulation with its many, many individual fibers creates many *very
        small* individual spaces of air (this is slightly simplistic, but
        will do). I am not sure at what volume of uninterrupted air
        convection starts, but am rather sure that a cubic inch is more than
        enough. That's why garden variety air mats don't insulate at all
        well. So the "extra" space you have in your sleeping bag likely
        isn't "dead" air space but extra space you a) need to warm up and b)
        contributes to convective heat loss.

        So my money would be on keeping the liner in the bag in order to
        reduce "live" air space.

        Of course, if you're doing this close to home and the forecast is for
        two similar nights in a row, I'd suggest you try it out both ways and
        see for yourself which is better.

        Finally, if the "liner" is large enough to accommodate both the pad
        and the bag (without pressing down on the bag's loft) it must be
        huge. Probably better to have a liner for the inside of the bag (you
        don't want anything to press down on your bag from above).

        André

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, PennyBright <GreenSoul@g...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I'm gearing up for my first test of winter hammocking, and was
        planning
        > on adding a fleece liner bag I have to my system.
        >
        > Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the
        liner
        > inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that
        inside it
        > would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me),
        but
        > outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped
        away as
        > easily.
        >
        > Also, if I used it outside the bag, I think I might be able to
        slide the
        > blue pad into it..... I'm not sure, I'm going to test that later
        today. I'm
        > not sure if there would be any value in that or not.
        >
        > Anna
        >
        > --
        > http://long_trails.blogspot.com/
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • dlfrost_1
        ... liner ... inside it ... but ... away as ... [and #11534] ... make a ... together ... might want ... won t go ... The closer the insulation is to your body
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, PennyBright <GreenSoul@g...>
          wrote:
          > Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the
          liner
          > inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that
          inside it
          > would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me),
          but
          > outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped
          away as
          > easily.
          [and #11534]
          > Right now I'm trying to work with what I have to see if I can
          make a
          > working, not too heavy, winter system. If I can't put something
          together
          > with my current stuff, then I'll work up ideas about what gear I
          might want
          > to gift myself with before next year, but right now my budget just
          won't go
          > there.

          The closer the insulation is to your body the more efficient it is
          and the less of it you need. So the thing to do is get a fleece
          top/bottom combo and wear that to bed instead of a fleece bag.
          They'll also keep you warm after you get out of bed, which a liner
          can't do.

          Fleece is pretty inexpensive to get now. For example, Target
          currently has a microfleece top (anorak or full-zip) on sale for
          $14. (Carefully check the fit before buying.) I've gotten
          lightweight fleece pants for $9 at Burlington Coat Factory. You
          don't have to blow all your dough. :-) Go have a look at the
          Backpacking Cheap group here on Yahoo for some great ideas and
          leads...
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bpcheap

          Doug Frost
        • Ralph Oborn
          Fleece liner on the inside, it clings to you better and keeps the dead air spacedown like you said. If you need more on the oudside,
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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            Fleece liner on the inside, it "clings" to you better and keeps the
            dead air spacedown like you said.
            If you need more on the oudside,

            On 11/30/05, PennyBright <GreenSoul@...> wrote:
            > I'm gearing up for my first test of winter hammocking, and was planning
            > on adding a fleece liner bag I have to my system.
            >
            > Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the liner
            > inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that inside it
            > would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me), but
            > outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped away as
            > easily.
            >
            > Also, if I used it outside the bag, I think I might be able to slide the
            > blue pad into it..... I'm not sure, I'm going to test that later today. I'm
            > not sure if there would be any value in that or not.
            >
            > Anna
            >
            > --
            > http://long_trails.blogspot.com/
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
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          • jwj32542
            ... Are these any kind of windstopper fleece? Or just normal fleece that would require a windproof shell? I ve been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dlfrost_1" <dlfrost@a...>
              wrote:
              > Fleece is pretty inexpensive to get now. For example, Target
              > currently has a microfleece top (anorak or full-zip) on sale for
              > $14. (Carefully check the fit before buying.) I've gotten
              > lightweight fleece pants for $9 at Burlington Coat Factory.

              Are these any kind of windstopper fleece? Or just normal fleece that
              would require a windproof shell?

              I've been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but the "hi-tech"
              fabrics like windstopper are pretty expensive so I haven't bought one
              yet. Of course, since I always have my rain jacket it's not a big
              deal, but I figure if I get loft+wind protection for the same weight
              as loft by buying a better quality fleece, it might be worth the money
              to save my rain jacket the wear and tear.

              But then there's the Montbell Thermawrap, too...
            • dlfrost_1
              ... that ... These are normal, breathable fleece. ... one ... I m in agreement with the others here that a seperate windshell is better. You can switch out
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...>
                wrote:
                > Are these any kind of windstopper fleece? Or just normal fleece
                that
                > would require a windproof shell?

                These are normal, breathable fleece.

                > I've been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but the "hi-tech"
                > fabrics like windstopper are pretty expensive so I haven't bought
                one
                > yet.

                I'm in agreement with the others here that a seperate windshell is
                better. You can switch out componants to match conditions, and the
                ventilation is more flexible.

                Doug Frost
              • J.D. Hoessle
                ... Yes, I use a very similar system . This has worked quite well for me: 1st Layer - Thin inexpensive polypro 2nd Layer - Montane / Pertex Wind Shirt (More
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 2, 2005
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dlfrost_1" <dlfrost@a...> wrote:
                  > > I've been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but the "hi-tech"
                  > > fabrics like windstopper are pretty expensive
                  ... so I haven't bought
                  > I'm in agreement with the others here that a seperate windshell is
                  > better. You can switch out componants to match conditions, and the
                  > ventilation is more flexible.

                  Yes, I use a very similar "system".

                  This has worked quite well for me:

                  1st Layer - Thin inexpensive polypro
                  2nd Layer - Montane / Pertex Wind Shirt (More expensive)
                  3rd Layer - Inexpensive fleece (200?) full-zip jacket

                  That combo works for me even into the teens as long as I am moving.
                  If there is rain/snow, I put my Froggs over top. Also pull out the
                  Froggs when I stop to keep from getting too chilled to quickly.

                  As you say above, this is more flexible and I can "match" conditions.
                  The slight drawback & annoyance is that it takes a few minutes to
                  strip off the wind shirt when I get too hot.

                  Happy Trails,

                  J.D.
                • john hill
                  I ve used my blue pad inside my fleece bag and it worked pretty good except my pad is only 20 inches wide so when i let my buttocks off the edge of the pad it
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 2, 2005
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                    I've used my blue pad inside my fleece bag and it worked pretty good except my pad is only 20 inches wide so when i let my buttocks off the edge of the pad it got kinda cold. The blue pad also helps keep the fleece bag in place. The SPE is one way to go to make it work better cause I need a pad about 30 inches wide when i sleep on my side and that'll do it - course I don't have one, I'll have to make my own I guess.

                    john

                    PennyBright <GreenSoul@...> wrote:
                    On 11/30/05, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > "you`ll brobably want to test what you would actualy be using on the
                    > trail". --



                    Yeah, that's the idea. *lol* the fleece liner/summer weight bag being
                    what I've got that I could use on the trail.

                    Right now I'm trying to work with what I have to see if I can make a
                    working, not too heavy, winter system. If I can't put something together
                    with my current stuff, then I'll work up ideas about what gear I might want
                    to gift myself with before next year, but right now my budget just won't go
                    there.

                    Bill, I am totally there on needing the blue pad underneath me... I'm
                    wondering if putting liner around the blue pad and my bag might work well --
                    sort of like the Big Agnes bags have that pad pocket. Provide the extra
                    insulating layer, and help keep the blue pad from sliding around.

                    It looks like I'm looking at about 25 degree temps tomorrow night.....
                    we'll see how it goes.

                    Anna



                    http://long_trails.blogspot.com/


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • chcoa
                    ... I was just looking at these. Anyone have one? How is it? jamie d
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 2, 2005
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                      >
                      > But then there's the Montbell Thermawrap, too...
                      >

                      I was just looking at these. Anyone have one? How is it?

                      jamie d
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