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Re: Layering?

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  • J.D. Hoessle
    ... Anna, The resident expert on that will be Rosaleen. She should uses a liner and I am sure will chime in here soon. As an example, Rosaleen and I a bunch
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 30, 2005
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, PennyBright <GreenSoul@g...> wrote:
      > I'm gearing up for my first test of winter hammocking, and was
      > planning on adding a fleece liner bag I have to my system.

      Anna,

      The resident expert on that will be Rosaleen. She should uses a liner
      and I am sure will chime in here soon.

      As an example, Rosaleen and I a bunch of other hammockers hooked-up
      recently. While I was estaticalyy babbling away and using my new
      Speer + SPE + Exped DAM, she was quitely setting up and was toasty
      warm using a down bag and liner.

      Happy Trails,

      J.D.
    • tim garner
      penny... i`ll go ahead & through in my thoughts. i realize your doing this test in the back yard & so the following is not that big a deal, but you`ll
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 30, 2005
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        penny... i`ll go ahead & through in my thoughts. i realize your doing this test in the back yard & so the following is not that big a deal, but you`ll brobably want to test what you would actualy be using on the trail. fleece can`t match a quilt or clothing filled w/ a puffer insulation like down or synthtic fill (as in weight to warmth, also bulk). you may not have time to make a switch if your going to test tonight, but for testing sake, walmart has some extraloft poly batting that works great along w/ nylon from the $1.00 bin. OR if you have a puffy jacket & pants, that`s what i would likly be sleeping in in cold weather. and they would help fill the extra room inside your bag. ...slowhike

        PennyBright <GreenSoul@...> wrote: I'm gearing up for my first test of winter hammocking, and was planning
        on adding a fleece liner bag I have to my system.

        Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the liner
        inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that inside it
        would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me), but
        outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped away as
        easily.

        Also, if I used it outside the bag, I think I might be able to slide the
        blue pad into it..... I'm not sure, I'm going to test that later today. I'm
        not sure if there would be any value in that or not.

        Anna

        --
        http://long_trails.blogspot.com/


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      • Bill in Houston
        I would use it wherever you feel cold. You will definitely need the blue pad underneath you, in my estimation. Once you open your sleeping bag and put it on
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 30, 2005
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          I would use it wherever you feel cold. You will definitely need the
          blue pad underneath you, in my estimation. Once you open your
          sleeping bag and put it on like a foot-boxed quilt, I don't think you
          will have any problems with excess dead air space.

          So I'd start with the pad and the bag, and see where you get cold,
          and put the liner there. In the future you may get more
          sophisticated and do something more complex...

          Bill in Houston

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, PennyBright <GreenSoul@g...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I'm gearing up for my first test of winter hammocking, and was
          planning
          > on adding a fleece liner bag I have to my system.
          >
          > Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the
          liner
          > inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that
          inside it
          > would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me),
          but
          > outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped
          away as
          > easily.
          >
          > Also, if I used it outside the bag, I think I might be able to
          slide the
          > blue pad into it..... I'm not sure, I'm going to test that later
          today. I'm
          > not sure if there would be any value in that or not.
          >
          > Anna
          >
        • PennyBright
          ... Yeah, that s the idea. *lol* the fleece liner/summer weight bag being what I ve got that I could use on the trail. Right now I m trying to work with
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 30, 2005
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            On 11/30/05, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
            >
            > "you`ll brobably want to test what you would actualy be using on the
            > trail". --



            Yeah, that's the idea. *lol* the fleece liner/summer weight bag being
            what I've got that I could use on the trail.

            Right now I'm trying to work with what I have to see if I can make a
            working, not too heavy, winter system. If I can't put something together
            with my current stuff, then I'll work up ideas about what gear I might want
            to gift myself with before next year, but right now my budget just won't go
            there.

            Bill, I am totally there on needing the blue pad underneath me... I'm
            wondering if putting liner around the blue pad and my bag might work well --
            sort of like the Big Agnes bags have that pad pocket. Provide the extra
            insulating layer, and help keep the blue pad from sliding around.

            It looks like I'm looking at about 25 degree temps tomorrow night.....
            we'll see how it goes.

            Anna



            http://long_trails.blogspot.com/


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • AndrĂ© Corterier
            Careful with the term dead air space . Dead air space is dead (as in: the air does not move around in it enough to effect convective heat loss) only when
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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              Careful with the term "dead air space". Dead air space is "dead" (as
              in: the air does not move around in it enough to effect convective
              heat loss) only when the volume of air is small. Hence, down
              insulation with its many, many individual fibers creates many *very
              small* individual spaces of air (this is slightly simplistic, but
              will do). I am not sure at what volume of uninterrupted air
              convection starts, but am rather sure that a cubic inch is more than
              enough. That's why garden variety air mats don't insulate at all
              well. So the "extra" space you have in your sleeping bag likely
              isn't "dead" air space but extra space you a) need to warm up and b)
              contributes to convective heat loss.

              So my money would be on keeping the liner in the bag in order to
              reduce "live" air space.

              Of course, if you're doing this close to home and the forecast is for
              two similar nights in a row, I'd suggest you try it out both ways and
              see for yourself which is better.

              Finally, if the "liner" is large enough to accommodate both the pad
              and the bag (without pressing down on the bag's loft) it must be
              huge. Probably better to have a liner for the inside of the bag (you
              don't want anything to press down on your bag from above).

              André

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, PennyBright <GreenSoul@g...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I'm gearing up for my first test of winter hammocking, and was
              planning
              > on adding a fleece liner bag I have to my system.
              >
              > Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the
              liner
              > inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that
              inside it
              > would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me),
              but
              > outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped
              away as
              > easily.
              >
              > Also, if I used it outside the bag, I think I might be able to
              slide the
              > blue pad into it..... I'm not sure, I'm going to test that later
              today. I'm
              > not sure if there would be any value in that or not.
              >
              > Anna
              >
              > --
              > http://long_trails.blogspot.com/
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • dlfrost_1
              ... liner ... inside it ... but ... away as ... [and #11534] ... make a ... together ... might want ... won t go ... The closer the insulation is to your body
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, PennyBright <GreenSoul@g...>
                wrote:
                > Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the
                liner
                > inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that
                inside it
                > would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me),
                but
                > outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped
                away as
                > easily.
                [and #11534]
                > Right now I'm trying to work with what I have to see if I can
                make a
                > working, not too heavy, winter system. If I can't put something
                together
                > with my current stuff, then I'll work up ideas about what gear I
                might want
                > to gift myself with before next year, but right now my budget just
                won't go
                > there.

                The closer the insulation is to your body the more efficient it is
                and the less of it you need. So the thing to do is get a fleece
                top/bottom combo and wear that to bed instead of a fleece bag.
                They'll also keep you warm after you get out of bed, which a liner
                can't do.

                Fleece is pretty inexpensive to get now. For example, Target
                currently has a microfleece top (anorak or full-zip) on sale for
                $14. (Carefully check the fit before buying.) I've gotten
                lightweight fleece pants for $9 at Burlington Coat Factory. You
                don't have to blow all your dough. :-) Go have a look at the
                Backpacking Cheap group here on Yahoo for some great ideas and
                leads...
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bpcheap

                Doug Frost
              • Ralph Oborn
                Fleece liner on the inside, it clings to you better and keeps the dead air spacedown like you said. If you need more on the oudside,
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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                  Fleece liner on the inside, it "clings" to you better and keeps the
                  dead air spacedown like you said.
                  If you need more on the oudside,

                  On 11/30/05, PennyBright <GreenSoul@...> wrote:
                  > I'm gearing up for my first test of winter hammocking, and was planning
                  > on adding a fleece liner bag I have to my system.
                  >
                  > Any idea if it would be more efficient insulation wise to use the liner
                  > inside my bag , or around it on the outside? I'm thinking that inside it
                  > would reduce my dead air space (my bag is a little large for me), but
                  > outside it would protect the warmth in the loft from being stripped away as
                  > easily.
                  >
                  > Also, if I used it outside the bag, I think I might be able to slide the
                  > blue pad into it..... I'm not sure, I'm going to test that later today. I'm
                  > not sure if there would be any value in that or not.
                  >
                  > Anna
                  >
                  > --
                  > http://long_trails.blogspot.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
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                  >
                  > Visit your group "hammockcamping" on the web.
                  >
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                  >
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                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  > ________________________________
                  >
                • jwj32542
                  ... Are these any kind of windstopper fleece? Or just normal fleece that would require a windproof shell? I ve been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dlfrost_1" <dlfrost@a...>
                    wrote:
                    > Fleece is pretty inexpensive to get now. For example, Target
                    > currently has a microfleece top (anorak or full-zip) on sale for
                    > $14. (Carefully check the fit before buying.) I've gotten
                    > lightweight fleece pants for $9 at Burlington Coat Factory.

                    Are these any kind of windstopper fleece? Or just normal fleece that
                    would require a windproof shell?

                    I've been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but the "hi-tech"
                    fabrics like windstopper are pretty expensive so I haven't bought one
                    yet. Of course, since I always have my rain jacket it's not a big
                    deal, but I figure if I get loft+wind protection for the same weight
                    as loft by buying a better quality fleece, it might be worth the money
                    to save my rain jacket the wear and tear.

                    But then there's the Montbell Thermawrap, too...
                  • dlfrost_1
                    ... that ... These are normal, breathable fleece. ... one ... I m in agreement with the others here that a seperate windshell is better. You can switch out
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 1, 2005
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                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > Are these any kind of windstopper fleece? Or just normal fleece
                      that
                      > would require a windproof shell?

                      These are normal, breathable fleece.

                      > I've been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but the "hi-tech"
                      > fabrics like windstopper are pretty expensive so I haven't bought
                      one
                      > yet.

                      I'm in agreement with the others here that a seperate windshell is
                      better. You can switch out componants to match conditions, and the
                      ventilation is more flexible.

                      Doug Frost
                    • J.D. Hoessle
                      ... Yes, I use a very similar system . This has worked quite well for me: 1st Layer - Thin inexpensive polypro 2nd Layer - Montane / Pertex Wind Shirt (More
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 2, 2005
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dlfrost_1" <dlfrost@a...> wrote:
                        > > I've been keeping an eye out for a good deal, but the "hi-tech"
                        > > fabrics like windstopper are pretty expensive
                        ... so I haven't bought
                        > I'm in agreement with the others here that a seperate windshell is
                        > better. You can switch out componants to match conditions, and the
                        > ventilation is more flexible.

                        Yes, I use a very similar "system".

                        This has worked quite well for me:

                        1st Layer - Thin inexpensive polypro
                        2nd Layer - Montane / Pertex Wind Shirt (More expensive)
                        3rd Layer - Inexpensive fleece (200?) full-zip jacket

                        That combo works for me even into the teens as long as I am moving.
                        If there is rain/snow, I put my Froggs over top. Also pull out the
                        Froggs when I stop to keep from getting too chilled to quickly.

                        As you say above, this is more flexible and I can "match" conditions.
                        The slight drawback & annoyance is that it takes a few minutes to
                        strip off the wind shirt when I get too hot.

                        Happy Trails,

                        J.D.
                      • john hill
                        I ve used my blue pad inside my fleece bag and it worked pretty good except my pad is only 20 inches wide so when i let my buttocks off the edge of the pad it
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 2, 2005
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                          I've used my blue pad inside my fleece bag and it worked pretty good except my pad is only 20 inches wide so when i let my buttocks off the edge of the pad it got kinda cold. The blue pad also helps keep the fleece bag in place. The SPE is one way to go to make it work better cause I need a pad about 30 inches wide when i sleep on my side and that'll do it - course I don't have one, I'll have to make my own I guess.

                          john

                          PennyBright <GreenSoul@...> wrote:
                          On 11/30/05, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > "you`ll brobably want to test what you would actualy be using on the
                          > trail". --



                          Yeah, that's the idea. *lol* the fleece liner/summer weight bag being
                          what I've got that I could use on the trail.

                          Right now I'm trying to work with what I have to see if I can make a
                          working, not too heavy, winter system. If I can't put something together
                          with my current stuff, then I'll work up ideas about what gear I might want
                          to gift myself with before next year, but right now my budget just won't go
                          there.

                          Bill, I am totally there on needing the blue pad underneath me... I'm
                          wondering if putting liner around the blue pad and my bag might work well --
                          sort of like the Big Agnes bags have that pad pocket. Provide the extra
                          insulating layer, and help keep the blue pad from sliding around.

                          It looks like I'm looking at about 25 degree temps tomorrow night.....
                          we'll see how it goes.

                          Anna



                          http://long_trails.blogspot.com/


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        • chcoa
                          ... I was just looking at these. Anyone have one? How is it? jamie d
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 2, 2005
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                            >
                            > But then there's the Montbell Thermawrap, too...
                            >

                            I was just looking at these. Anyone have one? How is it?

                            jamie d
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