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Re: Woohoo! Got my DAM!

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  • jwj32542
    Man, this thing is comfortable! I was warm to about 50 F - it didn t get any colder than that. I think it s actually more comfortable than the hammock body if
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 6, 2005
      Man, this thing is comfortable! I was warm to about 50 F - it didn't
      get any colder than that.

      I think it's actually more comfortable than the hammock body if I stay
      on my back. My foot barely hangs off the end, but the pad is thick
      enough that my foot doesn't even touch the hammock body and my leg is
      supported by the ankle. This relieves a lot of the knee strain a
      hammock can give, and is a lot more comfortable on my feet.

      It's not as comfortable when I lay on my side, though, and I have to
      mess with the pad to keep it in the right place when I roll over. I
      was using my homemade SPE, so I think a wider one would help a little.

      What's the coldest you guys have gotten with a DAM as the only under
      insulation? (SPE included, since it doesn't add insulation
      underneath.)
    • J.D. Hoessle
      Just picked up mine at REI today. It s self-inflating on the couch right now (Hopefully!). I will be at Dingmans Ferry, PA tomorrow (Thursday) - Forecast:
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 9, 2005
        Just picked up mine at REI today. It's self-inflating on the couch
        right now (Hopefully!).

        I will be at Dingmans Ferry, PA tomorrow (Thursday) - Forecast: rain
        and low of 28F. - Fri. low 28F - Sat. 36F -- So, I will have a report
        to post come Monday. Should have some pics too!

        Someone please remind me WHY I got the 70 inch long version! My
        error! Unrolled it and it's LONG! Listed at 27 oz. plus another 4-5
        oz. for the bag. Oh, well, not packing it this weekend....

        Stay tuned 'cause I may be offering this for sale and upgrade
        (down-size...?) to the short version...<g>... (More Below)

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...> wrote:
        > Man, this thing is comfortable! I was warm to about 50 F - it
        > didn't get any colder than that.

        Great - Looking forward to this!

        > It's not as comfortable when I lay on my side, though, and I have to
        > mess with the pad to keep it in the right place when I roll over. I
        > was using my homemade SPE, so I think a wider one would help a
        > little.

        I will be using Mr. Speer's SPE. Saw him insert the Exped DAM in the
        sleeve at Hot Springs (snug fit) and do not expect too much trouble.

        > What's the coldest you guys have gotten with a DAM as the only under
        > insulation? (SPE included, since it doesn't add insulation
        > underneath.)

        Well, I'm looking at 28F... Will let you know Monday.

        Happy Trails,

        J.D.
      • jwj32542
        ... I m 70 tall, and the 70 version barely fits me because it curves with the shape of the hammock. I hang my feet of the end or use a pillow for the top.
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 9, 2005
          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "J.D. Hoessle" <JD@H...> wrote:
          > Someone please remind me WHY I got the 70 inch long version! My
          > error! Unrolled it and it's LONG! Listed at 27 oz. plus another 4-5
          > oz. for the bag. Oh, well, not packing it this weekend....

          I'm 70" tall, and the 70" version barely fits me because it curves
          with the shape of the hammock. I hang my feet of the end or use a
          pillow for the top.

          For temps that cold, I need some insulation under my legs...I'm happy
          with the long version. Not sure it would be worth the 80" version,
          though I'd like some more width.
        • Steve Joiner
          Hi, all. I d like to request a little of this sage group s wisdom.... I ve been using the following setup: above 60 degrees - a ~2 lb 40 degree down bag used
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 9, 2005
            Hi, all. I'd like to request a little of this sage group's wisdom....

            I've been using the following setup:

            above 60 degrees - a ~2 lb 40 degree down bag used as a quilt, no pad
            30 - 60 degrees - an 8 oz 27" target pad, a 22 oz homemade down quilt, a
            silk liner w/ maybe one layer of midwt thermals below 40 degrees
            10 - 30 degrees - the 8 oz pad, a 32 oz TR guidelite, the quilt, a silk
            liner, several layers of clothing, and several 'hand-warmers' if below 20
            degrees. 'Base' pack wt with this setup is about 10.5 lbs, with total pack
            wt for a 3-day weekend (also including food, 2 litres of water, clothing)
            about 25 lbs. It's probably below 30 degrees on 5 of my campouts a year,
            below 20 on 2 or 3.... I've been generally toasty with this setup in the
            mid-teens with strong gusting winds....

            The only issues I've had with this setup are:
            - the pad is still not wide enough. at lower temps my arms still get cold.
            I can usually find a place to keep them warm and sleep...
            - the trickiness of getting into the hammock, adjusting the pad and TR,
            getting into the liner and quilt footbox - esp at 3 am after a bio break!

            Other than that, I love the setup and the good night's sleep I always get.

            I've seen much of the discussion about underquilts, and find the idea
            appealing. Before jumping into an expensive purchase or a fairly intensive
            home project (also not sure that my wife has forgiven me yet for screwing up
            her sewing machine on the quilt project!), I've got a few questions....

            - will converting to an underquilt be a weight savings? my assumption is
            that an underquilt, without additional padding, will be good to about 30
            degrees. Is this correct? if so, isn't this a good bit heavier than my
            current setup? The peapod is about 30 ozs, the JRB about 20. Isn't this a
            weight gain over just the 8 oz pad?
            - the underquilt appears to solve the 2 issues I have with my current
            setup - the width of the pad, and the trickiness of having several layers of
            pads.... I assume it's also more comfortable than the pads. Is this
            correct?

            So - my dilemma! Do I have to carry more weight to solve my problems? As
            I've thought through this, I've concluded that perhaps my best bet would be
            to go with the Speer 4x4 SPE, with 2 closed cell foam pads. I actually
            carry less weight (12 ozs if I'm calculating correctly), solve the first
            issue completely and mostly solve the second....

            Am I missing something? If I'm thinking correctly here, why are the
            underquilts so popular?

            Thanks for your input!

            Steve


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jwj32542
            Ask six people and you ll get ten opinions on this one. For the most part, none of them are right or wrong - just find what works for you. Here are my
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 9, 2005
              Ask six people and you'll get ten opinions on this one. For the most
              part, none of them are right or wrong - just find what works for you.
              Here are my thoughts:

              If your numbers are right, you'll be adding some weight. In my
              opinion, it's worth it. I find the underquilt more comfortable
              because I don't have to worry about shuffling the pad around when I
              change positions, and I'm free to sprawl as much as I want and still
              stay warm.

              If CCF works for you, it's the cheapest and will certainly work.
              You could always get an underquilt, then carry an extra pad when it
              gets below 30 F.

              Jeff
            • joe_ulrich
              ... You are absolutely correct. ... I struggled with keeping a pad in place and staying in the sweet spot for a long time. Like you, I find the freedom of
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 10, 2005
                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Ask six people and you'll get ten opinions on this one. For the most
                > part, none of them are right or wrong - just find what works for you.


                You are absolutely correct.

                > Here are my thoughts:
                >
                > If your numbers are right, you'll be adding some weight. In my
                > opinion, it's worth it. I find the underquilt more comfortable
                > because I don't have to worry about shuffling the pad around when I
                > change positions, and I'm free to sprawl as much as I want and still
                > stay warm.

                I struggled with keeping a pad in place and staying in the sweet spot
                for a long time. Like you, I find the freedom of using an underquilt
                allows me to get a better nights sleep. No waking up because I shifted
                to the edge of the pad and my back is cold. No claminess in my bag
                from condensation because the pad doesn't breathe.

                > If CCF works for you, it's the cheapest and will certainly work.
                > You could always get an underquilt, then carry an extra pad when it
                > gets below 30 F.
                >
                > Jeff

                I am currently using my sleeping bag as a quilt. It's a 20 degree
                synthetic and weighs almost 3 lbs. I will eventually by a down top
                quilt and save space and weight. However, the ~$200 is not in my
                budget for the near term.

                Peace,
                Joe
              • jack_tier
                ... wisdom.... ... pad ... quilt, a ... This looks like 8 oz for pad, 4-6 oz for the silk liner and approx 20 oz for a top and bottom mid weight... or a total
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 10, 2005
                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Joiner" <joiners@b...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi, all. I'd like to request a little of this sage group's
                  wisdom....
                  >
                  > I've been using the following setup:
                  >
                  > above 60 degrees - a ~2 lb 40 degree down bag used as a quilt, no
                  pad
                  > 30 - 60 degrees - an 8 oz 27" target pad, a 22 oz homemade down
                  quilt, a
                  > silk liner w/ maybe one layer of midwt thermals below 40 degrees

                  This looks like 8 oz for pad, 4-6 oz for the silk liner and approx
                  20 oz for a top and bottom mid weight... or a total of 32-34 oz...
                  assuming, your 22 oz quilt is enough for the top for you in this
                  range.

                  A 2 inch down under quilt and its suspension system will take you to
                  this range in skivies, plus your unmentioned adequate,head gear...
                  for 21-22 oz or a savings of about 10 oz...and a lot less bulk and
                  more comfort.


                  > 10 - 30 degrees - the 8 oz pad, a 32 oz TR guidelite, the quilt, a
                  silk
                  > liner, several layers of clothing, and several 'hand-warmers' if
                  below 20

                  Again this looks like 8 oz plus the 32 oz just counting bottom pads,
                  40 oz total ( assuming the silk liner and extra clothes is now
                  necessary because the limits of the top quilt are exceeded).

                  A 3 inch down under quilt and suspension system will take one to
                  this range for a weight of 25-26 oz total... a savings of 14-15
                  oz....or use a 2 inch UQ and the pad for a total weight of 30 oz if
                  you want the pad and a little more weight but still 10 oz less than
                  your proposed set up.


                  > degrees. 'Base' pack wt with this setup is about 10.5 lbs, with
                  total pack
                  > wt for a 3-day weekend (also including food, 2 litres of water,
                  clothing)
                  > about 25 lbs. It's probably below 30 degrees on 5 of my campouts
                  a year,
                  > below 20 on 2 or 3.... I've been generally toasty with this setup
                  in the
                  > mid-teens with strong gusting winds....
                  >
                  > The only issues I've had with this setup are:
                  > - the pad is still not wide enough. at lower temps my arms still
                  get cold.
                  > I can usually find a place to keep them warm and sleep...
                  > - the trickiness of getting into the hammock, adjusting the pad
                  and TR,
                  > getting into the liner and quilt footbox - esp at 3 am after a bio
                  break!

                  Note, I read this as the current set up is heavier and still has
                  some problem issues for you.


                  >
                  > Other than that, I love the setup and the good night's sleep I
                  always get.
                  >


                  > I've seen much of the discussion about underquilts, and find the
                  idea
                  > appealing. Before jumping into an expensive purchase or a fairly
                  intensive
                  > home project (also not sure that my wife has forgiven me yet for
                  screwing up
                  > her sewing machine on the quilt project!), I've got a few
                  questions....
                  >
                  > - will converting to an underquilt be a weight savings? my
                  assumption is
                  > that an underquilt, without additional padding, will be good to
                  about 30
                  > degrees. Is this correct?

                  Yes, it is good to about 30 degrees.

                  if so, isn't this a good bit heavier than my
                  > current setup? The peapod is about 30 ozs, the JRB about 20.
                  Isn't this a
                  > weight gain over just the 8 oz pad?

                  No... it is lighter, (You really don't have just an 8 oz pad...and
                  it is not wide enough by your comments above) see the above inserted
                  comments on weight.

                  > - the underquilt appears to solve the 2 issues I have with my
                  current
                  > setup - the width of the pad, and the trickiness of having several
                  layers of
                  > pads.... I assume it's also more comfortable than the pads. Is
                  this
                  > correct?
                  >
                  > So - my dilemma! Do I have to carry more weight to solve my
                  problems?

                  No.

                  As
                  > I've thought through this, I've concluded that perhaps my best bet
                  would be
                  > to go with the Speer 4x4 SPE, with 2 closed cell foam pads. I
                  actually
                  > carry less weight (12 ozs if I'm calculating correctly), solve the
                  first
                  > issue completely and mostly solve the second....
                  >
                  > Am I missing something?

                  Yes, The SPE is a great product for organizing multiple pads and pad
                  wings...Adequate pad thickness and lengths for these ranges are as
                  heavy or heavier... based on the model of pads, TR or DAMs and
                  number of wing section pieces selected. Determine the pads for you
                  for a given range and add them up... except for the minimal summer
                  set ups the weight will come to more, in some cases much more than
                  your stated 12 oz... It is true that for the weight this approach
                  retains pads for a go to ground capability, which some will find
                  desirable.

                  If I'm thinking correctly here, why are the
                  > underquilts so popular?

                  They really are very light, if not the lightest alternative... they
                  almost always win in less bulk... and, most importantly, there is
                  more comfort and freedom in a hammock with nothng but you and your
                  top cover in the hammock...

                  That said, you do not have a comfortable go to ground option that
                  retained pads alone, or in SPE, provide.

                  Note, I'm biased as an under quilt designer and maker....Just my
                  0.02 to keep the apples to apples discussion a more realistic
                  comparision.

                  Jack aka peter_pan


                  >
                  > Thanks for your input!
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Steve Joiner
                  Thanks for your insight, Jeff, Joe and Jack. Sounds like I need to take another look at my analysis! I went into this with a bias that I really want the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 10, 2005
                    Thanks for your insight, Jeff, Joe and Jack. Sounds like I need to take
                    another look at my analysis! I went into this with a bias that I really
                    want the underquilt (gettin' the Christmas list together!), and was
                    surprised at where my thoughts ended.... I'll noodle this around some more!

                    Steve


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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