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  • tim garner
    if you have a premium online membership w/ backpackinglight.com there`s an interresting artical (under features) that mentions tom hennessy sewing in a
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 5, 2005
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      if you have a premium online membership w/"backpackinglight.com"
      there`s an interresting artical (under features) that mentions tom
      hennessy sewing in a thin,torso shaped pice of insulation, right to
      the bottom of one of his hammocks. that hammock was tested on a cool
      weather trip by carol cooker (editor for backpackinglight.com). she
      has good things to say about attaching insulation directly to the
      underside of a hammock. of course rick (risk) had already proven this
      to be an effective, lightweight way to use a hammock. i`m planing to
      make a winter hammock by attaching synthetic insulation (2-4") to the
      bottom of a hammock & cover it w/ a very light,DWR shell. if you go to
      look for the artical, it`s titled "notes from the field;
      superultralight hammocking on the black forest trail in
      pennsylvania". ...slowhike
    • Carl Iobst
      Tim, Appreciate the heads-up on the article. Never have (& never will) bought into Ryan Jordan s creation of an elite clique of backpackers on the web. You re
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 5, 2005
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        Tim,
        Appreciate the heads-up on the article. Never have (&
        never will) bought into Ryan Jordan's creation of an
        elite clique of backpackers on the web. You're right.
        Dr. Allnut (MD) has been there & done that already.
        Unfortunately sewing a pad onto the bottom of a
        hammock, although convienient, reduces the versatility
        of that piece of equipment (IMHO)which keeps me from
        being flexible with nature not battling it. Not unlike
        a species if a piece of equipment does only one thing
        really well & nature throws a different set of
        conditions at it there is no successful adaptation
        only suffering the consequences. Don't let that deter
        you though. Test away That's a big part of the fun
        of each trip for me--trying something new, but having
        a back-up in case it doesn't perform as effectively as
        I thought it might.
        Cordially,
        CEHI

        --- tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:

        > if you have a premium online membership
        > w/"backpackinglight.com"
        > there`s an interresting artical (under features)
        > that mentions tom
        > hennessy sewing in a thin,torso shaped pice of
        > insulation, right to
        > the bottom of one of his hammocks. that hammock was
        > tested on a cool
        > weather trip by carol cooker (editor for
        > backpackinglight.com). she
        > has good things to say about attaching insulation
        > directly to the
        > underside of a hammock. of course rick (risk) had
        > already proven this
        > to be an effective, lightweight way to use a
        > hammock. i`m planing to
        > make a winter hammock by attaching synthetic
        > insulation (2-4") to the
        > bottom of a hammock & cover it w/ a very light,DWR
        > shell. if you go to
        > look for the artical, it`s titled "notes from the
        > field;
        > superultralight hammocking on the black forest trail
        > in
        > pennsylvania". ...slowhike
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        Train virtual, live Real!!!
        ('Real' refers to the concepts postulated by Karl Pribram's Holographic Paradigmn and David Bohm's theory of Non-locality)



        __________________________________
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      • tim garner
        carl... no i`m not trying to talk anyone into paying to get a subscription to backpackinglight.com. i have mixed feelings about it too. there`s a lot of
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 6, 2005
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          carl... no i`m not trying to talk anyone into paying to get a subscription to backpackinglight.com. i have mixed feelings about it too. there`s a lot of great info there but i also feel i was dealt w/ rather impersonaly early on in my dealings w/ them. i aint in no rhyan jordan fan club. i just go & see what they have to offer. i hope my bad experiance was just due to more growth than they where ready to handle, because they have a lot to offer... just as long as they don`t get the big head. on the insulated hammock... my thinking is that a hammock w/ insulation permantly attached, you still have quite a bit of flexability. your only insulating from the bottom & sides. how you cover from the top w/ a quilt will mke a lot of differance. a lot like a bed you sleep on at home. for the same reason that the same sleeping bag or quilt will not be suitable for all seasons i plan to make at least two insulated hammocks; one lighly insulated & one more heavyly insulated. i belive
          having the insulation attached directly to the bottom of the hammock will do a couple things. it will do away w/ one layer of fabric needed for an under quilt along w/ attachment straps/cords. also it does away w/ having to make adjustments to get the under quilt snug up aganst the bottom of the hammock so there are no air pockets & yet not getting it so tight that your not compressing the insulation. ...slowhike
          Carl Iobst <iobstce@...> wrote:Tim,
          Appreciate the heads-up on the article. Never have (&
          never will) bought into Ryan Jordan's creation of an
          elite clique of backpackers on the web. You're right.
          Dr. Allnut (MD) has been there & done that already.
          Unfortunately sewing a pad onto the bottom of a
          hammock, although convienient, reduces the versatility
          of that piece of equipment (IMHO)which keeps me from
          being flexible with nature not battling it. Not unlike
          a species if a piece of equipment does only one thing
          really well & nature throws a different set of
          conditions at it there is no successful adaptation
          only suffering the consequences. Don't let that deter
          you though. Test away That's a big part of the fun
          of each trip for me--trying something new, but having
          a back-up in case it doesn't perform as effectively as
          I thought it might.
          Cordially,
          CEHI
          .
          .
          .
          .
          .
          >
          >
          >
          .



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        • iobstce
          Didn t think you were shilling for Jordan. It is interesting though. Jordan is employed by Montana State University. I d be willing to bet he whines with the
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 6, 2005
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            Didn't think you were shilling for Jordan. It is interesting though.
            Jordan is employed by Montana State University. I'd be willing to bet
            he whines with the best of them when he doesn't get free access to the
            information he feels he is entitled to. Your idea of the lightly and
            more heavily insulated hammocks has possibilities. Have you thought
            about protecting the insulation (& yourself) from air currents? Not
            going to go back & check the last thousand or so posts so if you have
            disregard. Have kept up with the information/arguments over the
            thermal dynamics of staying warm in a hammock. Have the notion that
            efficient and effective hammock insulation would best mimic the
            insulative/reflective characteristics of a spacecraft. Makes sense
            because its the harshest environment we know of. Helping the
            insulation do its job most effectively here on Terra is probably best
            effected by a good tarp, a vapor barrier underliner, and perhaps an
            overliner. Am personally taking a close look at Hennessy's under &
            over liners for blocking the thermal shifts. Don't think his pads are
            worth a hoot though. Would use something else such as closed cell foam.
            CEHI

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > carl... no i`m not trying to talk anyone into paying to get a
            subscription to backpackinglight.com. i have mixed feelings about
            it too. there`s a lot of great info there but i also feel i was dealt
            w/ rather impersonaly early on in my dealings w/ them. i aint in no
            rhyan jordan fan club. i just go & see what they have to offer. i hope
            my bad experiance was just due to more growth than they where ready to
            handle, because they have a lot to offer... just as long as they don`t
            get the big head. on the insulated hammock... my thinking is
            that a hammock w/ insulation permantly attached, you still have quite
            a bit of flexability. your only insulating from the bottom & sides.
            how you cover from the top w/ a quilt will mke a lot of differance. a
            lot like a bed you sleep on at home. for the same reason that the same
            sleeping bag or quilt will not be suitable for all seasons i plan to
            make at least two insulated hammocks; one lighly insulated & one more
            heavyly insulated. i belive
            > having the insulation attached directly to the bottom of the
            hammock will do a couple things. it will do away w/ one layer of
            fabric needed for an under quilt along w/ attachment straps/cords.
            also it does away w/ having to make adjustments to get the under quilt
            snug up aganst the bottom of the hammock so there are no air pockets &
            yet not getting it so tight that your not compressing the insulation.
            ...slowhike
          • jmgiv47
            ... I ve never felt like part of a clique. But I guess that s natural when I only paid $29 to be elite. ;) john
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 6, 2005
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Carl Iobst <iobstce@y...> wrote:
              > Appreciate the heads-up on the article. Never have (&
              > never will) bought into Ryan Jordan's creation of an
              > elite clique of backpackers on the web. >

              I've never felt like part of a clique. But I guess that's natural when
              I only paid $29 to be elite. ;)

              john
            • Carl Iobst
              Don t forget what Phineas Thomas Barnum said. (hint: it was a sign on the inside of the rear door of the American Museum in New York City) CEHI ... Train
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 8, 2005
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                Don't forget what Phineas Thomas Barnum said.
                (hint: it was a sign on the inside of the rear door of
                the American Museum in New York City)
                CEHI

                --- jmgiv47 <jmgarberson@...> wrote:

                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Carl Iobst
                > <iobstce@y...> wrote:
                > > Appreciate the heads-up on the article. Never have
                > (&
                > > never will) bought into Ryan Jordan's creation of
                > an
                > > elite clique of backpackers on the web. >
                >
                > I've never felt like part of a clique. But I guess
                > that's natural when
                > I only paid $29 to be elite. ;)
                >
                > john
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                Train virtual, live Real!!!
                ('Real' refers to the concepts postulated by Karl Pribram's Holographic Paradigmn and David Bohm's theory of Non-locality)



                __________________________________
                Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                http://farechase.yahoo.com
              • jmgiv47
                Are you talking about the sucker quote? That s quite a change from cliquish elitists. Now we re simply talking worth. Of course,that is determined by those
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 11, 2005
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                  Are you talking about the sucker quote? That's quite a change from
                  cliquish elitists. Now we're simply talking worth. Of course,that
                  is determined by those who willingly supply a good to those that
                  willingly purchase it for a mutually agreed upon price. P.T. may
                  have never known he was undercharging his customers...maybe that's
                  why he found so many...er..uh...'customers.' :)

                  My mistake...the membership is $25, not $29, and discounts on
                  clothing, gear, etc. can rapidly reduce that cost. There's a good
                  amount of solid info available making the subscription at least as
                  worthwhile as Backpacker, maybe more so. I think it's a good price
                  for the 'intellectual property.'

                  It'd be interesting to sample the opinions of those on this Group
                  who have seen the content.

                  john

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Carl Iobst <iobstce@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Don't forget what Phineas Thomas Barnum said.
                  > (hint: it was a sign on the inside of the rear door of
                  > the American Museum in New York City)
                  > CEHI
                  >
                  > --- jmgiv47 <jmgarberson@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Carl Iobst
                  > > <iobstce@y...> wrote:
                  > > > Appreciate the heads-up on the article. Never have
                  > > (&
                  > > > never will) bought into Ryan Jordan's creation of
                  > > an
                  > > > elite clique of backpackers on the web. >
                  > >
                  > > I've never felt like part of a clique. But I guess
                  > > that's natural when
                  > > I only paid $29 to be elite. ;)
                  > >
                  > > john
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > Train virtual, live Real!!!
                  > ('Real' refers to the concepts postulated by Karl Pribram's
                  Holographic Paradigmn and David Bohm's theory of Non-locality)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                  > http://farechase.yahoo.com
                  >
                • jwj32542
                  ... I was hesitant to pay the fee, but I decided to pay when they started publishing hammock stuff. I m glad I did, and I think it s a fair price considering
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 11, 2005
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jmgiv47" <jmgarberson@h...>
                    wrote:
                    > It'd be interesting to sample the opinions of those on this Group
                    > who have seen the content.

                    I was hesitant to pay the fee, but I decided to pay when they
                    started publishing hammock stuff. I'm glad I did, and I think it's
                    a fair price considering that one purchase can easily get me a
                    discount that exceeds the membership fee.

                    I think the articles are excellent, but the forums aren't as easy to
                    use as others - the "new posts" doesn't sort by thread they way WB
                    does, for example. (Maybe there's an option in there I just haven't
                    found yet, though.)

                    Regarding elitism, there are a few people on those forums who get
                    crotchety when they don't get the respect they think they deserve,
                    but not many and they're easy enough to ignore when they get that
                    way. (Not that other forums are immune from that, either.)

                    All in all, I think the membership fee was worth it. They also have
                    a guarantee to return your money if you don't want to stay.
                  • jack_tier
                    ... ... Group ... Jeff wrote ... with. To add. I too took about a year to join ...then found a lot of good articles... enough to be worth
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 12, 2005
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                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542" <jwj32542@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jmgiv47"
                      <jmgarberson@h...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > It'd be interesting to sample the opinions of those on this
                      Group
                      > > who have seen the content.
                      Jeff wrote
                      > I was hesitant to pay the fee.....and somegood point that I agree
                      with.

                      To add.

                      I too took about a year to join ...then found a lot of good
                      articles... enough to be worth the subscription, IMHO...gear
                      discounts are a bonus.

                      There are many who push the limits in technique and gear in the
                      forums of this site... There is a lot to learn and a lot to
                      ignore.... I consider these forum and the extreme ultra light views
                      of Ryan Jordan and his staff to be a major ongoing labratory of
                      thought and experimentation for ultralight hiking that was begun (
                      or atleast publically launched) by Ray jardine's, " Beyond
                      Backpacking".

                      I would bet that the majority of folks who regularly contribute new
                      thoughts, suggestions, techniques, gear projects, and /or
                      constructive response on critique requests on new/emerging items on
                      this forum and Whiteblaze are also active or monitoring
                      Backpackinglight.

                      My $0.02.

                      Pan
                    • Dick Matthews
                      The BPL subscription is clearly a better value than Backpacker magazine. You can get the entire subscription back with product discounts. I trust the integrity
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 12, 2005
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                        The BPL subscription is clearly a better value than Backpacker magazine.

                        You can get the entire subscription back with product discounts.

                        I trust the integrity of all reviewers, but the products selected for
                        review is not influenced by advertising. I suspect that major
                        Backpacker advertisers can ask that a review not be published while
                        product development continues.

                        A subscription and buying products supports leading edge product
                        development. I also encourage you to buy Speer, JRB, OES, HH, etc.
                        products for the same reason.

                        Dick Matthews

                        jmgiv47 wrote:

                        >Are you talking about the sucker quote? That's quite a change from
                        >cliquish elitists. Now we're simply talking worth. Of course,that
                        >is determined by those who willingly supply a good to those that
                        >willingly purchase it for a mutually agreed upon price. P.T. may
                        >have never known he was undercharging his customers...maybe that's
                        >why he found so many...er..uh...'customers.' :)
                        >
                        >My mistake...the membership is $25, not $29, and discounts on
                        >clothing, gear, etc. can rapidly reduce that cost. There's a good
                        >amount of solid info available making the subscription at least as
                        >worthwhile as Backpacker, maybe more so. I think it's a good price
                        >for the 'intellectual property.'
                        >
                        >It'd be interesting to sample the opinions of those on this Group
                        >who have seen the content.
                        >
                        >john
                        >
                        >--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Carl Iobst <iobstce@y...>
                        >wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >>Don't forget what Phineas Thomas Barnum said.
                        >>(hint: it was a sign on the inside of the rear door of
                        >>the American Museum in New York City)
                        >>CEHI
                        >>
                        >>
                      • Carl Iobst
                        No. The sign said This way to the Egress. It was a device to get people to leave the museum and pay again to re-enter. Barnum was a showman and so is this
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 12, 2005
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                          No. The sign said "This way to the Egress." It was a
                          device to get people to leave the museum and pay again
                          to re-enter. Barnum was a showman and so is this guy
                          Jordan. He's still an elitist though--especially when
                          there are others who are willing to share their
                          experiences and receive in kind.
                          CEHI


                          > jmgiv47 wrote:
                          >
                          > >Are you talking about the sucker quote? That's
                          > quite a change from
                          > >cliquish elitists. Now we're simply talking worth.
                          > Of course,that
                          > >is determined by those who willingly supply a good
                          > to those that
                          > >willingly purchase it for a mutually agreed upon
                          > price. P.T. may
                          > >have never known he was undercharging his
                          > customers...maybe that's
                          > >why he found so many...er..uh...'customers.' :)
                          > >
                          > >My mistake...the membership is $25, not $29, and
                          > discounts on
                          > >clothing, gear, etc. can rapidly reduce that cost.
                          > There's a good
                          > >amount of solid info available making the
                          > subscription at least as
                          > >worthwhile as Backpacker, maybe more so. I think
                          > it's a good price
                          > >for the 'intellectual property.'
                          > >
                          > >It'd be interesting to sample the opinions of those
                          > on this Group
                          > >who have seen the content.
                          > >
                          > >john
                          > >
                          > >--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Carl Iobst
                          > <iobstce@y...>
                          > >wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >>Don't forget what Phineas Thomas Barnum said.
                          > >>(hint: it was a sign on the inside of the rear
                          > door of
                          > >>the American Museum in New York City)
                          > >>CEHI
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          >
                          >


                          Train virtual, live Real!!!
                          ('Real' refers to the concepts postulated by Karl Pribram's Holographic Paradigmn and David Bohm's theory of Non-locality)




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                        • Carl Iobst
                          Essentially Jordan s whole mindset is high tech Mr. Wizard stuff. He s almost at the point of diminishing returns and into complete redundancy. He s not
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 13, 2005
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                            Essentially Jordan's whole mindset is high tech 'Mr.
                            Wizard' stuff. He's almost at the point of diminishing
                            returns and into complete redundancy. He's not
                            shaving pounds or ounces anymore. He's only managing
                            to lose a few grams here or there.
                            To get to the future of ultralight you have to go back
                            to the past.
                            CEHI

                            --- jack_tier <jacktier@...> wrote:

                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jwj32542"
                            > <jwj32542@y...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jmgiv47"
                            > <jmgarberson@h...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > It'd be interesting to sample the opinions of
                            > those on this
                            > Group
                            > > > who have seen the content.
                            > Jeff wrote
                            > > I was hesitant to pay the fee.....and somegood
                            > point that I agree
                            > with.
                            >
                            > To add.
                            >
                            > I too took about a year to join ...then found a lot
                            > of good
                            > articles... enough to be worth the subscription,
                            > IMHO...gear
                            > discounts are a bonus.
                            >
                            > There are many who push the limits in technique and
                            > gear in the
                            > forums of this site... There is a lot to learn and a
                            > lot to
                            > ignore.... I consider these forum and the extreme
                            > ultra light views
                            > of Ryan Jordan and his staff to be a major ongoing
                            > labratory of
                            > thought and experimentation for ultralight hiking
                            > that was begun (
                            > or atleast publically launched) by Ray jardine's, "
                            > Beyond
                            > Backpacking".
                            >
                            > I would bet that the majority of folks who regularly
                            > contribute new
                            > thoughts, suggestions, techniques, gear projects,
                            > and /or
                            > constructive response on critique requests on
                            > new/emerging items on
                            > this forum and Whiteblaze are also active or
                            > monitoring
                            > Backpackinglight.
                            >
                            > My $0.02.
                            >
                            > Pan
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            Train virtual, live Real!!!
                            ('Real' refers to the concepts postulated by Karl Pribram's Holographic Paradigmn and David Bohm's theory of Non-locality)



                            __________________________________
                            Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
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                          • Ralph Oborn
                            ... But thats OK isn t it? Not my style but....hike your own hike. Ralph
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 13, 2005
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                              On 11/13/05, Carl Iobst <iobstce@...> wrote:
                              > Essentially Jordan's whole mindset is high tech 'Mr.
                              > Wizard' stuff. He's almost at the point of diminishing
                              > returns and into complete redundancy. He's not
                              > shaving pounds or ounces anymore. He's only managing
                              > to lose a few grams here or there.


                              But thats OK isn't it?

                              Not my style but....hike your own hike.


                              Ralph
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