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Which HH? Which insulation?

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  • montclair2525
    Hi everyone, I m new here, investigating the possibility of going hammock. I got the bug after a thread on the Backpacking Light list about bad back sleeping
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 22, 2005
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      Hi everyone,

      I'm new here, investigating the possibility of going hammock. I got
      the bug after a thread on the Backpacking Light list about bad back
      sleeping techniques. I had spinal surgery about 20 years ago and the
      ground just keeps getting harder and harder. I'm also in the process
      of paring down the weight of my gear. I just picked up an ULA P-1
      pack and need to relegate the Dana Design Mojo tent to car camping only.

      I'm 6'-0", 190#, which, heightwise, is right on the line between a HH
      backpacker and HH Explorer. I'd like to save the 8oz extra weight
      with the backpacker, but I don't want to feel cramped. The other
      thing is that I'm used to sleeping solo in a 2 person tent with all my
      gear, so having a larger hammock may help make that transition
      smoother by giving more room for gear at the foot and head.

      Any experience out there with this issue?

      Another thing, insulation. I currently own a Big Agnes Insulated air
      core long mummy mattress for my Big Agnes Horse Thief bag. How will
      this mattress work in a hammock for cold weather? (I'm a warm
      sleeper.) Which ever pad I end up using has to work with the P-1. Am
      I better off with a closed cell foam pad? Z-lite, blue foam,
      Ridge-Rest, GG NightLite, etc?

      Thanks in advance.

      Rich
    • Bill in Houston
      In my opinion, get the bigger hammock. If you need to ease your conscience on the 8 oz, just lose a pound from your body weight and consider yourself ahead of
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 23, 2005
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        In my opinion, get the bigger hammock. If you need to ease your
        conscience on the 8 oz, just lose a pound from your body weight and
        consider yourself ahead of the game... With your height and size and
        being accustomed to a larger tent, a larger hammock will be something
        you will appreciate. And if you like to write or end up cooped up
        because of rain, you will like it even more.

        Bill in Houston

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "montclair2525" <richard@m...>
        wrote:
        > I'm 6'-0", 190#, which, heightwise, is right on the line between a HH
        > backpacker and HH Explorer. I'd like to save the 8oz extra weight
        > with the backpacker, but I don't want to feel cramped.
      • Richard Perlman
        ... ROTFLMAO! That s the best ultralight advice I ve ever heard! :-D :-D But, how do you figure that into Skin Out Weight? ;-) Rich
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 23, 2005
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          Bill in Houston wrote:

          > In my opinion, get the bigger hammock. If you need to ease your
          > conscience on the 8 oz, just lose a pound from your body weight and
          > consider yourself ahead of the game...


          ROTFLMAO! That's the best "ultralight" advice I've ever heard! :-D :-D

          But, how do you figure that into Skin Out Weight? ;-)

          Rich
        • Johan van Dijk
          If space (in a tent or hammock) is important I reckon Bill has a point, oto, I am 6 -1 (185-186 cm to be exact, got no idea of my weight... 65-75 kg... in
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 23, 2005
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            If space (in a tent or hammock) is important I reckon Bill has a point,
            oto, I am 6'-1" (185-186 cm to be exact, got no idea of my weight... 65-75
            kg... in pounds...eeh... ) and use a HH Ultralight Asym. Have slept for four
            months in a row in it in Thailand. The only "trouble" was getting out. I
            just didn't want to :-)
            Grtz Johan
            --
            It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
            intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

            --
            mob: +502 56 63 21 96
            email: gonewalkabout2003@...

            http://www.geocities.com/johanvandijk
            http://calendar.yahoo.com/johanvandijk
            --


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lenny Nichols
            I have both the HH Backpacker and the HH Explorer Ultralight. I m also 6 .0 and weight about 180. I fit just fine in both hammocks. You likely won t be able
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 23, 2005
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              I have both the HH Backpacker and the HH Explorer Ultralight. I'm also
              6'.0" and weight about 180. I fit just fine in both hammocks. You likely
              won't be able to fit much gear at the head or foot of the hammock. It will
              all slide to the middle. You can, however, hang stuff from the ridgeline. I
              take the removable top section from my backpack and attach it to the
              ridgeline inside the hammock. I can store my ditty bag, flashlight,
              glasses, etc.

              You will have a bit more room inside the Explorer. If you are
              claustrophobic, that might be the way to go. It does weigh a bit more,
              though. Sleeping in a hammock is definitely the most comfortable sleeping
              I've ever done while camping.

              Lenny Nichols

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steve Joiner
              ... ROTFLMAO! That s the best ultralight advice I ve ever heard! :-D :-D But, how do you figure that into Skin Out Weight? ;-) Rich ehhh.... let s don t go
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 23, 2005
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                > In my opinion, get the bigger hammock. If you need to ease your
                > conscience on the 8 oz, just lose a pound from your body weight and
                > consider yourself ahead of the game...


                ROTFLMAO! That's the best "ultralight" advice I've ever heard! :-D :-D

                But, how do you figure that into Skin Out Weight? ;-)

                Rich


                ehhh.... let's don't go there! If you figure the 35 lbs or so that I need
                to lose into my pack weight, I'm far from lightweight, and getting depressed
                thinking about it!!

                ;^)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jwj32542
                ... It will ... ridgeline. Both ends of the HH ridgeline have have loops that you can use to hang a pack or stuff sack. I sometimes put a mini-biner there,
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 23, 2005
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Lenny Nichols <lnichols@u...>
                  wrote:
                  > You likely
                  > won't be able to fit much gear at the head or foot of the hammock.
                  It will
                  > all slide to the middle. You can, however, hang stuff from the
                  ridgeline.

                  Both ends of the HH ridgeline have have loops that you can use to hang
                  a pack or stuff sack. I sometimes put a mini-biner there, and
                  sometimes I just stick the cordlock through the loop and that's enough
                  to hold a stuff sack up there. It lays on the hammock body, so it's
                  not exactly hanging from the ridgeline, but that loop keeps it from
                  sliding down to my butt.

                  But like Rosaleen said...after taking care of food and making my bed,
                  I don't have much left to worry about...just a few odds and ends.
                • Bill in Houston
                  ... That s the best ultralight advice I ve ever heard! :-D :-D ... Sometimes exercising common sense doesn t lead to something that is easy to brag about.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 24, 2005
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Richard Perlman <richard@m...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Bill in Houston wrote:
                    >
                    > > just lose a pound from your body weight and
                    > > consider yourself ahead of the game...
                    That's the best "ultralight" advice I've ever heard! :-D :-D
                    >
                    > But, how do you figure that into Skin Out Weight? ;-)

                    Sometimes exercising common sense doesn't lead to something that is
                    easy to brag about. :-D


                    Bill in Houston
                  • Richard Perlman
                    Hey now! Thanks to all you kind folks who replied and offered your help and experience. I ended up winning a HH Explorer Ultralight off Ebay for a nice price.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                      Hey now!

                      Thanks to all you kind folks who replied and offered your help and
                      experience.

                      I ended up winning a HH Explorer Ultralight off Ebay for a nice price.
                      I was concerned that the Backpacker would be too short for my six foot body.

                      For insulation, I'm going to start with the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core
                      mattress I own. It's 20" wide & 2.5" thick and the company says it's
                      good to 15 degrees. Does anyone know what this would translate into in
                      a hammock? I called Big Agnes about the R value, but they said that
                      they don't rate their pads that way. I could see adding some ccf
                      insulation to the sides of the pad to widen it out.
                      Also in my gear closet is a monster of a thermarest: 25 x 72 x 2
                      weighing in at 3.5 lbs. Just too big to mate with the ULA P-1 I just
                      picked up, but I could see using it when canoeing or car camping.

                      I like the concept of an underbag, but I'm going to need some sort of
                      pad for support in my pack. Who else uses a frameless pack and an
                      underbag? What do you do for support in your pack?

                      Thanks again to all you experts!

                      Rich
                    • Joe O'Leary
                      Recently, I hiked in Vermont with an HH Ultralight Backpacker Asym, a JRB Underquilt, a sleeping back, a Fanatic Fringe Thompson Peak Pack (frameless) and an
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                        Recently, I hiked in Vermont with an HH Ultralight Backpacker Asym, a JRB
                        Underquilt, a sleeping back, a Fanatic Fringe Thompson Peak Pack (frameless)
                        and an Oware Evazote pad for a frame. This gave me the option of using the
                        bag and pad in shelters OR in the hammock. I did use the pad in the hammock
                        a couple of times and it certainly added to the warmth.

                        If I were to do it again, I'd go for a sturdier pack (GG Vapor Trail) and
                        carry the pad on the outside, not as a frame).

                        -Joe

                        p.s. I'm not even remotely close to being an expert, I'm learning this
                        myself.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Richard Perlman
                        Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 3:07 PM
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Which HH? Which insulation?


                        I like the concept of an underbag, but I'm going to need some sort of
                        pad for support in my pack. Who else uses a frameless pack and an
                        underbag? What do you do for support in your pack?
                      • jwj32542
                        If you use a frameless pack of the right size for your gear, you may not need the support of a pad. I hike with a GoLite Speed and the JRB set, usually with no
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                          If you use a frameless pack of the right size for your gear, you may
                          not need the support of a pad.

                          I hike with a GoLite Speed and the JRB set, usually with no pad, and I
                          just pack things tight enough that the pack stands up by itself. When
                          the load is smaller than normal, I can move things from the outer
                          pockets to inside the main bag and cinch the extension collar down
                          tighter. When it's bigger than normal, the extension collar comes
                          out, but the load is still packed tight enough that I don't need a
                          pad's support.

                          I just have to make sure my food bag isn't digging into my back -
                          everything else is soft enough to go wherever, as long as it's
                          balanced.

                          Works for me, anyway.

                          Jeff
                        • Chuck Henderson
                          Dude tell me it wasn t the nice red one with Snap on logo on it!!!! someone outbid me for that one!!!!! grrrr ( hehehe congrats!) ... Chuck counterculture in
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                            Dude tell me it wasn't the nice red one with Snap on
                            logo on it!!!! someone outbid me for that one!!!!!
                            grrrr ( hehehe congrats!)

                            --- Richard Perlman <richard@...>
                            wrote:

                            > Hey now!
                            >
                            > Thanks to all you kind folks who replied and offered
                            > your help and
                            > experience.
                            >
                            > I ended up winning a HH Explorer Ultralight off Ebay
                            > for a nice price.
                            > I was concerned that the Backpacker would be too
                            > short for my six foot body.
                            >
                            > For insulation, I'm going to start with the Big
                            > Agnes Insulated Air Core
                            > mattress I own. It's 20" wide & 2.5" thick and the
                            > company says it's
                            > good to 15 degrees. Does anyone know what this
                            > would translate into in
                            > a hammock? I called Big Agnes about the R value,
                            > but they said that
                            > they don't rate their pads that way. I could see
                            > adding some ccf
                            > insulation to the sides of the pad to widen it out.
                            > Also in my gear closet is a monster of a thermarest:
                            > 25 x 72 x 2
                            > weighing in at 3.5 lbs. Just too big to mate with
                            > the ULA P-1 I just
                            > picked up, but I could see using it when canoeing or
                            > car camping.
                            >
                            > I like the concept of an underbag, but I'm going to
                            > need some sort of
                            > pad for support in my pack. Who else uses a
                            > frameless pack and an
                            > underbag? What do you do for support in your pack?
                            >
                            > Thanks again to all you experts!
                            >
                            > Rich
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            Chuck
                            counterculture in a conformist environment
                            I BELIEVE the true path to life is with a perfectly poured pint of Guinness, and of course sharing the unique taste with fellow Canadians





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                          • Dick Matthews
                            Rich, I am a belt and suspenders guy. I use a Gossamer Gear torso length Nightlight pad (3.6 oz.) for pack support. The pad is also an extra windscreen and a
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                              Rich,

                              I am a belt and suspenders guy. I use a Gossamer Gear torso length
                              Nightlight pad (3.6 oz.) for pack support.

                              The pad is also an extra windscreen and a sit pad. At night I put it
                              under the HH so that I can stand on it to take off/put on my shoes - it
                              the weather turns cold it is extra insulation for shoulder compression.

                              The JRB Nest with expedition weight long underwear and a Nunatuk Arc
                              Alpinist keeps me comfortable to about 25. Deploy the HH Overcover (3.5
                              oz.), pull the Nightlight into the hammock and wear a coat keeps me
                              comfortable to 18 - probably lower, but that is the extent of my experience.

                              The Nightlight also gives the option to drop to the ground and use both
                              quilts on top.

                              YMMV.

                              I hope you enjoy your hammock as much as I enjoy mine.

                              Dick Matthews

                              Richard Perlman wrote:

                              >Hey now!
                              >
                              >Thanks to all you kind folks who replied and offered your help and
                              >experience.
                              >
                              >I ended up winning a HH Explorer Ultralight off Ebay for a nice price.
                              >I was concerned that the Backpacker would be too short for my six foot body.
                              >
                              >For insulation, I'm going to start with the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core
                              >mattress I own. It's 20" wide & 2.5" thick and the company says it's
                              >good to 15 degrees. Does anyone know what this would translate into in
                              >a hammock? I called Big Agnes about the R value, but they said that
                              >they don't rate their pads that way. I could see adding some ccf
                              >insulation to the sides of the pad to widen it out.
                              >Also in my gear closet is a monster of a thermarest: 25 x 72 x 2
                              >weighing in at 3.5 lbs. Just too big to mate with the ULA P-1 I just
                              >picked up, but I could see using it when canoeing or car camping.
                              >
                              >I like the concept of an underbag, but I'm going to need some sort of
                              >pad for support in my pack. Who else uses a frameless pack and an
                              >underbag? What do you do for support in your pack?
                              >
                              >Thanks again to all you experts!
                              >
                              >Rich
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • tim garner
                              richard... i have been using the BA insulated air core all summer. i even sleep in my hammock at home w/ it. i`ve resently had several chances to try it in
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                                richard... i have been using the BA insulated air core all summer. i even sleep in my hammock at home w/ it. i`ve resently had several chances to try it in cooler temps. what i`ve found to be true for me is ... the pad starts feeling noticably cold in the low 50s w/ no underquilt. i can add an insulating layer between me & the air core like a thin closed cell foam pad, mabey in a sleve like the SPE to hold everything together neatly & go into the mid 40s w/ a desent top quilt. but if i add insulation from the outside (underquilt), i can use the air core by it`s self in the low 40s. when i add both under quilt & a thin insulative layer between me & the air core, i can easyly go to low 30s. now the underquilt i`m using right now is homemade & very thin. if i where using a better made underquilt ...well that much better. so i should be able to use the air core well below freezing by insulating it`s top & using a good underquilt. hopefully before i get into much colder weather than
                                that, i can afford a down air mat like the expead jd`s getting & make a better underquilt. ...slowhike

                                Richard Perlman <richard@...> wrote:Hey now!

                                Thanks to all you kind folks who replied and offered your help and
                                experience.

                                I ended up winning a HH Explorer Ultralight off Ebay for a nice price.
                                I was concerned that the Backpacker would be too short for my six foot body.

                                For insulation, I'm going to start with the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core
                                mattress I own. It's 20" wide & 2.5" thick and the company says it's
                                good to 15 degrees. Does anyone know what this would translate into in
                                a hammock? I called Big Agnes about the R value, but they said that
                                they don't rate their pads that way. I could see adding some ccf
                                insulation to the sides of the pad to widen it out.
                                Also in my gear closet is a monster of a thermarest: 25 x 72 x 2
                                weighing in at 3.5 lbs. Just too big to mate with the ULA P-1 I just
                                picked up, but I could see using it when canoeing or car camping.

                                I like the concept of an underbag, but I'm going to need some sort of
                                pad for support in my pack. Who else uses a frameless pack and an
                                underbag? What do you do for support in your pack?

                                Thanks again to all you experts!

                                Rich





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                              • Richard Perlman
                                ... No, but I remember seeing that one. :-) In fact, I just checked and there s another one up for bid!! http://tinyurl.com/cuwlz 2 days left. It s at $61.00
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                                  Chuck Henderson wrote:

                                  > Dude tell me it wasn't the nice red one with Snap on
                                  > logo on it!!!! someone outbid me for that one!!!!!
                                  > grrrr ( hehehe congrats!)

                                  No, but I remember seeing that one. :-)
                                  In fact, I just checked and there's another one up for bid!!

                                  http://tinyurl.com/cuwlz

                                  2 days left. It's at $61.00 The first one went for $84.02.

                                  Happy bidding!

                                  Rich




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • joseph R DuPont
                                  I had my bag... in the car..one bag I don t think it was the one you got.. you got two right? To leave voice mail for Joe DuPont call toll free 877 225 5928
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 28, 2005
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                                    I had my bag... in the car..one bag I don't think it was the one you
                                    got.. you got two right?

                                    To leave voice mail for Joe DuPont call toll free 877 225 5928 then put
                                    in
                                    908 647 5929 and leave a voice message to my e-mail. 6041630
                                    P.O. B ox 189
                                    Gillette,NJ 07933
                                    God Bless our Troops!
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