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Condensation

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  • bronco372003
    Hello to everyone, I really enjoy this forum. Great info. I sleep in a HH and I made a new sleeping pad last week and tried it out the other night. I used a
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 17, 2003
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      Hello to everyone, I really enjoy this forum. Great info. I sleep
      in a HH and I made a new sleeping pad last week and tried it out the
      other night. I used a 3/8" closed cell pad 27" x 72" , I made wings
      from my shoulders to my waist Overall width was 34"(I am broad in
      the shoulders) and I attached a piece or 5/16" Reflectix from my
      shoulders to my butt. The temp was about 29 degs F. and snowing. I
      was quite warm all night but in the morning I had some condensation.
      I think if it was any colder I would have been quite wet on my
      backside. Any suggestions ?? Or it that typical with the reflectix
      as a thermal barrier? I had the reflectix facing down. Maybe it
      should be up? Maybe some add a piece of polar fleece? Any
      suggestions would be great.
      Thanks
      H.L.
    • Coy
      HL I ve had that same problem from time to time. I really need to start taking notes on exact temps, humidity etc... but I think it is worse when humidity is
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 17, 2003
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        HL

        I've had that same problem from time to time. I really need to start
        taking notes on exact temps, humidity etc... but I think it is worse
        when humidity is low. Why? Well I seem to remember the most
        condensation buildup on a few fall trips when humidity is usually
        the lowest aroune my neck of the woods. But since I didn't take
        notes I can't say for sure. I would think just the opposite would be
        true ie higher humidity = more condensation. I really need to be
        more observant!!! However adding a fleece layer on top of the
        reflectic helps. It seems to allow moisture to evaporate but still
        the center of my pad gets damp from time to time. I think a thicker
        fleece would help me. Also I dont understand what you mean by
        facing down. Reflectix is the same on both sides. Unles there is
        another reflectix I'm not aware of. But reguardless I think the
        reflective side to whatever you have should face up.

        Coy Boy

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "bronco372003" <hlusk@p...>
        wrote:
        > Hello to everyone, I really enjoy this forum. Great info. I sleep
        > in a HH and I made a new sleeping pad last week and tried it out
        the
        > other night. I used a 3/8" closed cell pad 27" x 72" , I made
        wings
        > from my shoulders to my waist Overall width was 34"(I am broad in
        > the shoulders) and I attached a piece or 5/16" Reflectix from my
        > shoulders to my butt. The temp was about 29 degs F. and snowing.
        I
        > was quite warm all night but in the morning I had some
        condensation.
        > I think if it was any colder I would have been quite wet on my
        > backside. Any suggestions ?? Or it that typical with the
        reflectix
        > as a thermal barrier? I had the reflectix facing down. Maybe it
        > should be up? Maybe some add a piece of polar fleece? Any
        > suggestions would be great.
        > Thanks
        > H.L.
      • Sean Keplinger
        ... I just wanted to say hat s off to those of you that camp when it s this cold. Very impressive! I m more of a 50F+ camper myself...not a big fan of cold
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 18, 2003
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          On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, bronco372003 wrote:

          > The temp was about 29 degs F. and snowing.

          I just wanted to say "hat's off" to those of you that camp when it's this
          cold. Very impressive! I'm more of a 50F+ camper myself...not a big fan of
          cold weather.


          Sean
          --
          \___/ Sean Keplinger
          |o,o| skeplin at one dot net
          \/ ) http://spookyworld.dnsalias.com
          ----mm-----------------------------------
        • Ed Speer
          Welcome--glad to hear you re experimenting with making your own gear. Your sleep pad sounds well thought out and solves many of the problems we discuss here.
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 18, 2003
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            Message
            Welcome--glad to hear you're experimenting with making your own gear.  Your sleep pad sounds well thought out and solves many of the problems we discuss here.  Condensation of body moisture is always a concern with any sleep pad--they are all vapor barriers, except for open-cell foam pads which will pass moisture.  But the condensation problems become greater as the temps drop and as the pad gets wider &/or longer. Wicking long johns or fleece next to your skin will help a bit to keep the moisture away from your skin; however once saturated, even these fabrics will feel wet to the skin. I deal some with the condensation subject in my Hammock Camping book--this is the biggest hurdle to sleeping comfort in cold temps. We can surround ourselves with sufficent heat trapping gear, only to created excessive condensation problems.  One solution is to go ahead and enclose the body below the head with a vapor barrier bag--this traps all moisture inside the VB bag and keeps it from getting into the insulation layers. It really is warm and dealing with the resulting wet body/clothes in the morning is not as difficult as imagined.  Another solution, is my custom-made PeaPod sleeping bag which goes completely around the hammock (removable bug net type only) and is breathable to allow most of the body moisture to escape. In temps below 40F, the PeaPod setup requires additional insulation such as top blankets and sleep pads, but the sleep pads can be kept small thus eliminating bulk, weight, and excess trapped moisture.
             
            Your suggestion of adding some fleece should help--let us know how it works.  Also, the Reflectix can be damaged with normal use--the Aluminum layers soon break along the creases between the bubbles and begin to peal off.  Keeping the Reflectix on the bottom of the pad may help protect it. Since the Reflectix and the closed-cell foam pad are both vapor barriers, there should be no difference in warmth no matter which one is on top. Likewise the reflective heat properties of the Reflectix is probably greatly overshowded by its' vapor barrier features--in other words, you may not be able to feel any real benefits from it's reflective properties no matter how it is positioned.
             
            With the return of Spring here in the SE, it's getting too warm for testing cold-weather gear in the hammock. Good to hear you've found some proper weather!  ....Ed
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: bronco372003 [mailto:hlusk@...]
            Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 12:04 AM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Hammock Camping Condensation

            Hello to everyone, I really enjoy this forum. Great info.  I sleep
            in a HH and I made a new sleeping pad last week and tried it out the
            other night.  I used a 3/8" closed cell pad 27" x 72" , I made wings
            from my shoulders to my waist Overall width was 34"(I am broad in
            the shoulders) and I attached a piece or 5/16" Reflectix from my
            shoulders to my butt. The temp was about 29 degs F. and snowing.  I
            was quite warm all night but in the morning I had some condensation.
            I think if it was any colder I would have been quite wet on my
            backside.  Any suggestions ??  Or it that typical with the reflectix
            as a thermal barrier? I had the reflectix facing down. Maybe it
            should be up? Maybe some add a piece of polar fleece?  Any
            suggestions would be great.
            Thanks
            H.L.



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          • upricon
            Why do pads condensate inside a hammock but not on the ground. Is it because of the reflectix ... the ... wings ... condensation.
            Message 5 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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              Why do pads condensate inside a hammock but not on the ground. Is it
              because of the reflectix




              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "bronco372003" <hlusk@p...>
              wrote:
              > Hello to everyone, I really enjoy this forum. Great info. I sleep
              > in a HH and I made a new sleeping pad last week and tried it out
              the
              > other night. I used a 3/8" closed cell pad 27" x 72" , I made
              wings
              > from my shoulders to my waist Overall width was 34"(I am broad in
              > the shoulders) and I attached a piece or 5/16" Reflectix from my
              > shoulders to my butt. The temp was about 29 degs F. and snowing. I
              > was quite warm all night but in the morning I had some
              condensation.
              >
            • Coy
              Todd Good question. I m not the scientist on board so I may get corrected. But perhaps what is happening is similar to a glass of ice tea in the summer. The
              Message 6 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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                Todd

                Good question. I'm not the scientist on board so I may get
                corrected. But perhaps what is happening is similar to a glass of
                ice tea in the summer. The tea is cold inside the glass and the
                condensation forms outside the glass Dah. Ok not earthbraking news.
                Consider the air on a cold night under the hammock (and pad) the
                cold tea inside the glass. Now our body on the other side is the
                warm air outside the glass. Condensation is drawn to the warm side.

                On the ground Our bodies slowly warm the ground under the pad so
                less condensation builds up on top. Less differance in temps on
                both sides of the pad I'm guessing is the short answer.

                Coy Boy

                -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "upricon" <thomchick@s...>
                wrote:
                > Why do pads condensate inside a hammock but not on the ground. Is
                it
                > because of the reflectix
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "bronco372003" <hlusk@p...>
                > wrote:
                > > Hello to everyone, I really enjoy this forum. Great info. I
                sleep
                > > in a HH and I made a new sleeping pad last week and tried it out
                > the
                > > other night. I used a 3/8" closed cell pad 27" x 72" , I made
                > wings
                > > from my shoulders to my waist Overall width was 34"(I am broad
                in
                > > the shoulders) and I attached a piece or 5/16" Reflectix from my
                > > shoulders to my butt. The temp was about 29 degs F. and
                snowing. I
                > > was quite warm all night but in the morning I had some
                > condensation.
                > >
              • Coy
                I forgot to add. Putting a fleece layer between the body and reflectic or other pad for that matter seems to reduce the condensation or allows it to evaporate
                Message 7 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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                  I forgot to add. Putting a fleece layer between the body and
                  reflectic or other pad for that matter seems to reduce the
                  condensation or allows it to evaporate better or a combination of
                  both. This can be a flece blanket or fleece clothes. Much like
                  cloth seats are cooler than plastic like seats in a car. I know,
                  more weight, but in the winter that is a given anyway. Much of last
                  winters reaserch team The Ohio gang and Mr Garlington mostly found
                  some fairly light solutions but there is more work to be done. Your
                  Serria experiances will add knowledge to the mix. We await your
                  findings.

                  Coy Boy

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
                  > Todd
                  >
                  > Good question. I'm not the scientist on board so I may get
                  > corrected. But perhaps what is happening is similar to a glass of
                  > ice tea in the summer. The tea is cold inside the glass and the
                  > condensation forms outside the glass Dah. Ok not earthbraking
                  news.
                  > Consider the air on a cold night under the hammock (and pad) the
                  > cold tea inside the glass. Now our body on the other side is the
                  > warm air outside the glass. Condensation is drawn to the warm
                  side.
                  >
                  > On the ground Our bodies slowly warm the ground under the pad so
                  > less condensation builds up on top. Less differance in temps on
                  > both sides of the pad I'm guessing is the short answer.
                  >
                  > Coy Boy
                  >
                  > -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "upricon" <thomchick@s...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Why do pads condensate inside a hammock but not on the ground.
                  Is
                  > it
                  > > because of the reflectix
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "bronco372003"
                  <hlusk@p...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Hello to everyone, I really enjoy this forum. Great info. I
                  > sleep
                  > > > in a HH and I made a new sleeping pad last week and tried it
                  out
                  > > the
                  > > > other night. I used a 3/8" closed cell pad 27" x 72" , I made
                  > > wings
                  > > > from my shoulders to my waist Overall width was 34"(I am broad
                  > in
                  > > > the shoulders) and I attached a piece or 5/16" Reflectix from
                  my
                  > > > shoulders to my butt. The temp was about 29 degs F. and
                  > snowing. I
                  > > > was quite warm all night but in the morning I had some
                  > > condensation.
                  > > >
                • jlevans7
                  Good afternoon, I currently use a couple of overlaping blue, closed cell foam pads as insulation for my HH. I use this during the spring and fall. I notice
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 9 11:06 AM
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                    Good afternoon,
                    I currently use a couple of overlaping blue, closed cell foam pads as
                    insulation for my HH. I use this during the spring and fall. I
                    notice there is usually some condensation on the pads resulting in
                    dampness on the bottom of my sleeping bag in the mornings. Any
                    thoughts on prevention of this condensation?

                    Jackie
                  • Dave Womble
                    Jackie, My opinion is that your closed cell foam pads act as a vapor barrier. Since you are most likely staying in pretty much one position all night, it
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 9 2:36 PM
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                      Jackie,

                      My opinion is that your closed cell foam pads act as a vapor
                      barrier. Since you are most likely staying in pretty much one
                      position all night, it doesn't give your insensible perspiration a
                      chance to evaporate like it does when you toss & turn when sleeping
                      on the ground. My advice is to try controlling your perspiration.
                      One way is to incorporate some wicking fabric against the pads
                      (sleeve or wrap). Another way is to try sleeping in different
                      positions during the night (back & side). Another way is to wear
                      vapor barrier clothing (rain gear). Another approach is to use a
                      closed cell foam pad with open cells for the top pad (Zrest,
                      Ridgerest, egg crate) and hope the condensation that collects in the
                      open cells doesn't wet your bag.

                      I suspect that there are many other possible solutions, this web site
                      http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/hammock/hammock.htm describes a homemade
                      hammock that has sewn-in breathable synthetic insulation in addition
                      to a closed cell foam pad (that was in a sleeve). He was still
                      getting condensation so he cut many tiny holes in the closed cell
                      foam to make it breathable. I don't know if the tiny hole approach
                      would work with stacked pads, but it is an idea worth knowing about.

                      Youngblood

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jlevans7"
                      <jackiethehiker@b...> wrote:
                      > Good afternoon,
                      > I currently use a couple of overlaping blue, closed cell foam pads
                      as
                      > insulation for my HH. I use this during the spring and fall. I
                      > notice there is usually some condensation on the pads resulting in
                      > dampness on the bottom of my sleeping bag in the mornings. Any
                      > thoughts on prevention of this condensation?
                      >
                      > Jackie
                    • Risk
                      ... Hi Jackie, The closed cell pad is a vapor barrier, so what ever is between me and it will get a little moist. What I do is wear clothing that easily wicks
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 9 3:34 PM
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jlevans7"
                        <jackiethehiker@b...> wrote:
                        > Good afternoon,
                        > I currently use a couple of overlaping blue, closed cell foam pads as
                        > insulation for my HH. I use this during the spring and fall. I
                        > notice there is usually some condensation on the pads resulting in
                        > dampness on the bottom of my sleeping bag in the mornings. Any
                        > thoughts on prevention of this condensation?
                        >
                        > Jackie

                        Hi Jackie,

                        The closed cell pad is a vapor barrier, so what ever is between me and
                        it will get a little moist. What I do is wear clothing that easily
                        wicks the moisture and does not feel very wet. I use a coolmax tee
                        and nylon shorts. If necessary, I wear a thin fleece pullover and
                        pants (or polypropyline long johns).

                        I open the bag except for the last couple feet, to use it like a
                        quilt, or (better) use a quilt I built. This puts me against the pad
                        so the bag's insulation is all doing the job I want it to do. It
                        keeps me warm instead of getting wet from my perspiration.

                        Perhaps some of these ideas will allow you to experiment on your own
                        and find a solution that works well for you.

                        Rick
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