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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: hammock

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  • Scot Leibacher
    You know, I wonder if the Park admins even know there is a demand for hammock camping yet. Perhaps we are not even to the point where they see hammocks as
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 6, 2005
      You know, I wonder if the Park admins even know there is a demand for hammock camping yet.
      Perhaps we are not even to the point where they see hammocks as presenting a problem, much
      less something as specific as "ropes versus straps". I think the "no hanging anything on trees"
      policies are very general ones that were made years ago and certainly not specifically because of
      hammock campers. On each of the occasions I have spoken to a Park Ranger, they have liked the
      idea of the hammock. In both cases, it was the first time the Ranger had seen one up close. Both Rangers
      apologized for making me take it down but cited that their rules did not allow for exceptions, even if
      the hammock did not seem to represent a risk. I got the sense that I was viewed as an oddity with this hammock
      thingy of mine and just happened to be affected by an old-standing rule in place to protect the trees.


      Like I said in previous post, parks are run like almost any commodity business. If there is a big enough

      demand for something, they will find a way to meet (and make money off) that demand. I am old enough

      to remember family camping as a kid before mobile campers. When it became apparent there was a demand for mobile campers/trailers, the parks certainly came up with ways to accomodate them. There can't be much questioning the impact that a fat-ass mobile trailer the size of a semi-truck has compared to my little hammock/tent. I seriously think more people need to call the parks and ask how the park can accomodate their hammock tent. Until there is a demand, there is not even a perceived "issue". In other words, parks don't have "no hammock" policies, they have "no hanging

      ANYTHING on trees" policies. My experience is that they don't even realize they may be turning away potential

      customers yet.



      Its like at my place of employment, where no rule is even re-evaluated until it has come into question many

      many times. The questioners may think they have an issue that is so obviously an exeption to a rule that

      anyone is their right mind would immediately understand. But as is often the case, the rule makers may not

      even be aware of the "exception" much less have thought through whether it is an acceptable exeption, to the rule.

      So my question is, how do we make the parks people aware there is a growing demand and desire to use hammocks,

      safely, in the park environment? I don't think they are being hard-headed or stubborn, they are just ignorant of

      the growing demand.


      -------------- Original message from Dylan Anderson <hum469@...>: --------------

      J.D.

      The special use permit might be a viable solution, if
      it turns out that there is a potential for damage.
      The point I was trying to make though is that there is
      little value in discussing fixes right now.

      Others have made some good points about the fact that
      we don't even know if there is a problem yet, let
      alone how to fix it if there is. Common sense says
      that wider straps means less pressure per square inch,
      but what if there is no pressure damage to trees at
      all? Maybe some trees are more or less sensitive to
      pressure, or maybe it isn't pressure at all, but
      friction that harms trees. Or maybe nothing does.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ralph Oborn
      Perhaps it would be helpful to write to the director/administrator/head honcho of the NPS and ask her/him? Ralph
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 6, 2005
        Perhaps it would be helpful to write to the
        director/administrator/head honcho of the NPS and ask her/him?

        Ralph

        On 10/6/05, Scot Leibacher <scot-leibacher@...> wrote:
        > You know, I wonder if the Park admins even know there is a demand for
        > hammock camping yet.
        > Perhaps we are not even to the point where they see hammocks as presenting
        > a problem, much
        > less something as specific as "ropes versus straps". I think the "no
        > hanging anything on trees"
        > policies are very general ones that were made years ago and certainly not
        > specifically because of
        > hammock campers. On each of the occasions I have spoken to a Park Ranger,
        > they have liked the
        > idea of the hammock. In both cases, it was the first time the Ranger had
        > seen one up close. Both Rangers
        > apologized for making me take it down but cited that their rules did not
        > allow for exceptions, even if
        > the hammock did not seem to represent a risk. I got the sense that I was
        > viewed as an oddity with this hammock
        > thingy of mine and just happened to be affected by an old-standing rule in
        > place to protect the trees.
        >
      • Dave Womble
        I like the direction this thread is going. The thought here is to see what the park service can do to accomodate hammockers. I also like the other approach,
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 7, 2005
          I like the direction this thread is going. The thought here is to see
          what the park service can do to accomodate hammockers. I also like
          the other approach, seeing what hammockers can do to accomodate the
          park service. In the end it will take a combination of both along
          with a cooperative spirit.

          Youngblood


          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@g...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Perhaps it would be helpful to write to the
          > director/administrator/head honcho of the NPS and ask her/him?
          >
          > Ralph
          >
          > On 10/6/05, Scot Leibacher <scot-leibacher@w...> wrote:
          > > You know, I wonder if the Park admins even know there is a demand for
          > > hammock camping yet.
          > > Perhaps we are not even to the point where they see hammocks as
          presenting
          > > a problem, much
          > > less something as specific as "ropes versus straps". I think the "no
          > > hanging anything on trees"
          > > policies are very general ones that were made years ago and
          certainly not
          > > specifically because of
          > > hammock campers. On each of the occasions I have spoken to a Park
          Ranger,
          > > they have liked the
          > > idea of the hammock. In both cases, it was the first time the
          Ranger had
          > > seen one up close. Both Rangers
          > > apologized for making me take it down but cited that their rules
          did not
          > > allow for exceptions, even if
          > > the hammock did not seem to represent a risk. I got the sense that
          I was
          > > viewed as an oddity with this hammock
          > > thingy of mine and just happened to be affected by an old-standing
          rule in
          > > place to protect the trees.
          > >
          >
        • Dylan Anderson
          These have been very good thoughts here too. I am sure that very few if any of the parks (local, state, national, NPS, NFS etc.) have thought about the
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 7, 2005
            These have been very good thoughts here too. I am
            sure that very few if any of the parks (local, state,
            national, NPS, NFS etc.) have thought about the
            hammocks. On the tree damage thread I suggested that
            our collective experience needs to be compiled so that
            a research plan can be developed. I will spearhead an
            effort with a local college forestry department to
            impliment that research, and then I will be taking
            those results to the powers that be in an attempt to
            revise policies and take hammocks into account.

            There are a couple reasons to my approach. First,
            those in the school who would be involved in the
            research will be tomorrows rangers and policy makers.
            What better exposure than to have them proving to
            themselves the benefits and low impact of hammocks.
            Second, there are plenty out there who would like to
            ban anything and everything for a variety of reasons.
            Given no opposition, the general public will often go
            along with these because the proponents of those bans
            often have some measure of "proof" why the ban is
            necessary. If we can approach and introduce the
            officials to the "oddity", and be able to answer every
            question they have, it is a lot easier to get them to
            trust the "oddity" as safe. And should an opposition
            spring up, they will have far less ground on which to
            stand.

            Yes, we need to bring it to the policy makers
            attention, but let us make sure we can say beyond all
            doubt exactly what it is we are bringing up first. It
            will not make a good impression at all if we are
            bringing up a bunch of different fixes, and later have
            someone else prove one or more fixes does not really
            work. The more clear, concise, uniform and supported
            by scientific fact the information is, the easier it
            will be for the policymakers to incorporate into
            exceptions or new policies.

            --- Dave Womble <dpwomble@...> wrote:

            > I like the direction this thread is going. The
            > thought here is to see
            > what the park service can do to accomodate
            > hammockers. I also like
            > the other approach, seeing what hammockers can do to
            > accomodate the
            > park service. In the end it will take a combination
            > of both along
            > with a cooperative spirit.
            >
            > Youngblood
            >
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Oborn
            > <Ralph.oborn@g...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Perhaps it would be helpful to write to the
            > > director/administrator/head honcho of the NPS and
            > ask her/him?
            > >
            > > Ralph
            > >
            > > On 10/6/05, Scot Leibacher <scot-leibacher@w...>
            > wrote:
            > > > You know, I wonder if the Park admins even know
            > there is a demand for
            > > > hammock camping yet.
            > > > Perhaps we are not even to the point where they
            > see hammocks as
            > presenting
            > > > a problem, much
            > > > less something as specific as "ropes versus
            > straps". I think the "no
            > > > hanging anything on trees"
            > > > policies are very general ones that were made
            > years ago and
            > certainly not
            > > > specifically because of
            > > > hammock campers. On each of the occasions I have
            > spoken to a Park
            > Ranger,
            > > > they have liked the
            > > > idea of the hammock. In both cases, it was the
            > first time the
            > Ranger had
            > > > seen one up close. Both Rangers
            > > > apologized for making me take it down but cited
            > that their rules
            > did not
            > > > allow for exceptions, even if
            > > > the hammock did not seem to represent a risk. I
            > got the sense that
            > I was
            > > > viewed as an oddity with this hammock
            > > > thingy of mine and just happened to be affected
            > by an old-standing
            > rule in
            > > > place to protect the trees.
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            Though I may die tomorrow, at least I can do it with the knowledge that once I did know true love -unknown





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