- I understand where Doug is coming from but don't know that we have a
solution that is actually workable at this time for high use camping
For example, the HHs are probably the most used backpacking hammocks
and most of their models (maybe all?) use small diameter rope with
tree hugger straps. I used one myself for about a year and am familar
with what the tree hugger straps will do... and what they won't do.
What they won't do is assure that anyone using a HH won't damage a
tree. First I have seen where folks didn't bother using the tree
hugger straps because they didn't think they needed them (and you have
to admit they add a degree of difficulty in hanging the hammock).
Well, they did need them and they where very caring folks, just first
time hammockers that didn't understand the problem. Second the length
of the tree huggers is fixed and doesn't always work out to be the
length you need and this can easily leave part of the tree subject to
the small diameter rope... I marked tree(s) myself because of that
until someone told me their techniques to overcome this design oversight.
My point is that just saying "use webbing" isn't a solution at this
point unless you want to ban any hammock that uses any rope on the
support straps... and I'm not sure that would really solve all the
problems of hanging hammocks to trees. We also haven't addressed the
tarp issue! We hang those to trees also and often use thin cord that
can mark trees as well... and I do realize that Ed uses a four wrap
knot that helps with this, but not every tree is small enough in
diameter to accomodate four wraps of the cord lengths that we
typically use for tarps. What we need is a well thought out plan that
addresses the problems in a way that hammock campers using a wide
array of different hammocks can live with and the folks in charge of
protecting and preserving campsites feel okay with. At this point in
time, I don't know what that is. I also don't know the process that
will yield this result unless it is to use hammock stands, one the
user brings or ones the campsite provides. Maybe we should open this
up to discussion and suggestions as it sounds like an excellent topic
for this forum? If we do discuss it I think the first discussion
should be whether more stringent requirements should be placed on high
use campsites, ie campgrounds, than on backpacking in forest areas
where you don't have concentrated use.
--- In email@example.com, "dlfrost_1" <dlfrost@a...> wrote:
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Bill in Houston"
> <zippydooda@y...> wrote:
> > Because once you quit basing decisions on reality, it makes it even
> > easier to ban something. If you accept the spurious proposition
> > all hammock ropes are harmful to all trees, then you are just that
> > closer to accepting that all hammocks with straps are harmful to
> > trees. It's best to keep a grasp on reality and logic for as long
> > possible.
> Point taken, but let's all remember that decisions about government
> policy are not inherently based on reality and logic, but are instead
> political at least to some degree.
> If problems with careless hammockers becomes too severe for land
> managers to ignore it won't be talked about as "those few individuals
> who use small, hard ropes." It will be referred to as "the hammock
> problem" and will very likely be dealt with on that basis. My
> suggestion that webbing only be allowed is an attempt to short-
> circuit the problem at its root. I'll leave it to you to decide the
> suggestion's worth.
> Doug Frost
- --- In email@example.com, Dylan Anderson <hum469@y...>
> My pointOr just flat-out tell baldface lies. Yep. It's happened lots of
> though was that the minorities (absinthe, hammocks,
> off roaders) are always the first one banned when the
> would-be prohibitors are aware of their presence, and
> it is only a matter of time with the rate of growth of
> hammock camping before the camping prohibitionists
> start talking about how damaging we all are. And when
> they attack something, junk science is always used.
times before. And you, Bill, Rick and the rest are right there's not
enough scientific data and we need studies. So they'll want to study
it. I'm guessing they'll ban hammocks while they do that.
Prohibition is the default option in government decisionmaking, after
all. And government studies (likes the ones done for the Park
Service) can take years.
I'm hoping that if we approach these people with something workable
we can avoid the prohibition part in the interim.