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9952Re: [Hammock Camping] new intro with a few questions

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  • RedsTanMenagerie@aol.com
    Aug 4, 2005
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      Hi sorry for the late reply, i've bene away from my puter. Anyways i thought
      i'd try to better explane what i was saying about pack goats.

      >Quite possible, for moderate loads and rough trails. The rougher the
      >trail, the lighter the pack needs to be. Also the heaver the pack the
      >less the goat enjoys the hike. And when a goat digs in it's heels, you
      >aren't going anywhere.
      Bucks are used 99% of the time for packing and they adverage 280lbs or more.
      60lbs of gear is roughly a 20% body weight ratio. 20% weight is a
      perfectally managable load for a goat even on hard trails. They of course DO nead
      breaks like any other animal. They are 4wheel drive vehickles not race cars.

      As far as "digging in heels" a well trained pack goat won't. They even
      cross watter and goats HATE watter most of the time haha. Just like a well
      trained pack horse. Balking comes from pain or ill trained animals. They are FAR
      less stubern then llamas.

      Pack goats aren't just any goat off the farm. There bred for a paticlure
      body size and shape. There temperments are carefully selected and they are
      hand raised and training starts at birth. There not your tipical goat.

      >Dessert goats, perhaps. Normal breeds WILL need water more often.
      >Especially while working. You will need to keep them away from the
      >water source too, they are as sloppy in their toilet as any other pack

      Dessert goats are better at it but nearly any goat has the functional
      abilitys to manage this. Goats are amazingly versital and adapt to there
      enviroment. Again these are bred packgoats, i'm not taking a goat out of the dairy
      and tossing a pack on it.

      >A working pack goat WILL need some grain/prepared feed. Browsing will
      >not provide enough for the HIGH energy output of packing.

      Auchuly here i disagree and ANY pack goater will tell you. In sertion
      enviroments yes it is true but especially here in the NW there is NO nead to pack
      feeds for a buck. They are the only pack animal that can do this. Now if
      you bring a doe along also for milk and a light load then you have to pack
      grain for her. Does carry much lighter loads but provide milk on the trail
      (great protin sorse for hikers on the trails) and it is easy to make "camp
      yogert" in the morning for a tasty breakfast. How else can you get fresh milk and
      yogert in the back country. Anyways a doe in milk would nead grains but not
      the bucks.

      >Apparently you have not seen a busy game trail.

      HEHEHE i agree, but then again i'm not taking a herd of goats out daily on
      the same trail, i have 1 goat with me and control his behavior.

      >Less perhaps, still they have feet.

      Yes i agree here also, i did not meen to imply they leave NO dammage as they
      don't levitate. They do leave far less dammage then any other pack animal,
      or human for that matter.

      I've tracked goats when they got out of the paddock. They do leave traces.

      Yup especially when left to there own devices, just ask my fruit trees! The
      point i was tryingto make is that they are the most enviromentally friendly
      pack animal choice a hiker can make. As long as you do it properly they
      leave less dammage then a human.

      >And might attract bears and/or large cats.

      They can attract cats but bear i've never heard of. I don't worry much as
      i also hike with my service dog and have him walk the perimiter when i make
      camp (even if camping without goats) His smell makes the cats think twice but
      i know that many many goat packers hike the back country in couger areas and
      never have issues.

      >True, as long as you stay within their limitations.

      Agreed, goats do have there limits just like any other pack animal. But
      then again i was suggesting it for disabled or limited hikers so really my
      limits take there toll far sooner then my goats hit there limits so we are a great

      >IMHO; Taking any animal increases my work load. While I might be able
      >to reduce a 20 pound weekend pack load a bit, I'm constantly picking up
      >after, checking pack condition, fetching water, taking extra breaks and
      >so on. And that's just with 1 dog. A pack animal would be more work
      >for me than hiking without.

      I traval EVERYWARE with a service dog and almost everyware with a disabled
      child so i don't even bat an eye at such things hahaha. For long hikes i
      simply bury my dog's fecies with mine unless i'm packing out mine and then i
      packout my dog's. My dog pottys on command so he just goes when i do ;) Only a
      two second difrance in time as i just put his in my hole. The goat i make
      sure it is off trail but i leave it. My goats are tested so i'm not leaving
      possible disease.

      My goat is potty trained so i have no worry of him deficating in streams but
      i still watter him off watter but i don't have to haul the 200' that i would
      for washing and cleaning. Both my dog and goat are cocsi and gardia free.
      I wouldn't risk contaminating the enviroment.

      I take more breaks then my animals do so not an issue there ether. Pack
      checks are easy and normal for me, i constintally check my SD for gear when out
      in public so it is second nature for me.

      I can't carry over 20lbs but to be pain free (err pain less) i tipically
      don't go over a 10lb pack. I mostly use a 1,200 sq ft day pack for hiking and
      the animals deal with the rest. I also do longer then simple weekend hikes
      so 20lbs total weight is often not possible thus the animal help. The
      "burdon" of packing with animals is definatally outweighted by the help and simple
      creature companionship. And with goats you'll spot more deer and wild goats
      and sheep. They seem genuinally interested in these weard domestic goats

      There definatally not for everyone but they are a godsend for the disabled!

      Melissa and Tao

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