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Re: 11111 Too complicated?

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  • billsaleen <bills1@cox.net>
    Mag Science, That Egyptian thing is EXACTLY what I thought after working on this a bit--the Egyptian drawings look more like what you originally drew (sans
    Message 1 of 45 , Jan 20, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Mag Science,

      That Egyptian thing is EXACTLY what I thought after working on this a
      bit--the Egyptian drawings look more like what you originally drew
      (sans outer rings, etc.)!
      Pretty neat huh? :)

      - Bill


      --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Mag Science" <magscience@h...> wrote:
      > Good stuff Bill.
      >
      > I just quickly checked what I feel are the important measurements on
      your drawings and it appears as though you have got them right. When
      looking at the side view, the center to center distance for the
      magnets must be the same as the cone tip to tip length. Don't worry
      about the kick in the bottom cone. The MPM measurement should be the
      center of the magnet on top of the cone to the bottom tip of the same
      cone. This does not have to be a physical edge of the cone to work. It
      can be the dashed lined that you showed, extended up a bit to the
      center line of the magnet. Have a look at it that way and see what you
      come up with.
      >
      > When you say that we should replicate the original, I agree, but
      maybe the Djed was the original. David says that this technology was
      supposed to handed to the Egyptians many years ago. Take a look at it
      and then back at the two drawings we have shown. How far off can we be?
      >
      > Mag Science
      >
      > P.S. I found this this week and thought it very fitting.
      > "A man with a new idea is a crank until he succeeds" - Mark Twain
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: billsaleen <bills1@c...>
      > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:44 PM
      > Subject: [hameltech] Re: 11111 Too complicated?
      >
      >
      > I thought this was a very interesting idea.
      > When I was in the middle of building a 15" 3CD I ran into some
      > problems. Plus, the amount of work and time required for such a thing
      > is higher than I want to invest right now.
      > Usually I would say that one should duplicate the exact design of the
      > working original, but if the purpose of the 3CD is more to get a feel
      > for the tech than it is to actually produce plasma then trying simpler
      > designs may be ok.
      > So, I have decided to try this. I have posted the schematic for my
      > design (cones only, and modified somewhat to fit the magnets) for any
      > who are interested.
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hameltech/files/BillSaleen/M3CDv1.1.1.pdf
      > Some notes on it: the ring magnets are 4.54"x.4" w/ 1.75" hole,
      > ceramic #5. The cones are not MPM; they needed to be modified to fit
      > the magnets (also notice the "kink"). The magnet gap is not entirely
      > arbitrary. It is based on the regular magnet gap and taking into
      > account the estimated weight of the cones. This is because there will
      > be no outer ring on which to balance the cones. The blue, dashed lines
      > are guides only.
      >
      > - Bill
      >
      > P.S.
      > Thanks to Travis' enthusiasm, I have another "phase" of passion to
      > direct toward this :)
      >
      >
      > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Mag Science" <magscience@h...>
      wrote:
      > > As the group approaches it's third year anniversary, Jan 1/03, I
      > can't help but wonder if the group is trying to make a device that is
      > too complicated due to all of the factors involved. Upon my review of
      > the information provided by the group and study of what I consider the
      > main design criteria for the device, plus the limited successes of the
      > group in building devices, I have to wonder.
      > >
      > > Now by no means am I suggesting that David Hamel or the group is
      > designing their devices wrong, or am I trying to belittle any efforts
      > of the builders or their successes. All I'm asking the group to do is
      > to take a step back and look at the design criteria the device needs
      > to function, and then review some other designs in how the device
      > could be made. Some may say that the device must be as David has told
      > us, but I ask you then, are the engines in our vehicles today the same
      > as the ones 100 years ago? The answer is no. The basic principle is
      > the same but designs are varied amongst the different manufacturers
      > and the technology level we are at today.
      > >
      > > Before I go into how I see the device working I would ask you to
      > clear your mind of the designs you have seen to date, and review the
      > principles outlined. If you do you will see how I put all of the
      > design criteria together into the device and you will see the
      > possibilities of the new design. I joined this group May 31 of 2001
      > and came up with this design by the end of June that same year. I
      > tried to bounce some of these ideas off of a few in the group but my
      > ideas were not received favorably, and thus I decided that maybe I
      > didn't come up with the answer in a month. I spent the last year and a
      > half reviewing the materials, designs, ideas, successes of the group
      > and compared the information to my design. In that time I have become
      > more convinced that this design should work and the group should know
      > about it.
      > >
      > > The design criteria:
      > > 1.. David Hamel has stated numerous times and he can't stress
      > enough that we need to have an Isotope line. As you can find out from
      > the information from the group, an Isotope line has three equal parts
      > or sections. The device, at rest should have a straight Isotope line,
      > and when not at rest each section of the Isotope line must remain the
      > same length.
      > > 2.. The group has concluded that the device must be balanced
      > mechanically. I take this to mean that when the device is balanced and
      > at rest, that the Isotope line should be straight or very close to it
      > and secondly that the three sections of the Isotope line have an equal
      > mechanical weight.
      > > 3.. Just as the device needs to be mechanically balanced, it needs
      > to be magnetically balanced. I take this to mean that when the device
      > is at rest that the magnetic forces make the Isotope line as straight
      > as possible. The magnetic forces are used to continually keep the
      > Isotope line in this neutral position or the device at rest.
      > > 4.. A force is required to keep the Isotope line from being
      straight.
      > > That's it four simple design criteria. Some of you may be asking
      > what about the MPM or the design criteria of the base? If you examine
      > a device that provides the first criteria then you will see that it
      > incorporates the MPM. If you study the function of the base you will
      > see that it is required to allow the bottom section of the Isotope
      > line to move while keeping the device mechanically and magnetically
      > balanced.
      > >
      > > Now when you look at the devices the group have made, you can see
      > right away why I ask if we are making the devices too complicated. The
      > first criteria can be examined by calculations made from the cone
      > designs. The second two criteria are determined by the design and
      > skills of the builder and the quality and consistency of the magnets.
      > >
      > > To make the design simpler I reviewed how to obtain the easiest
      > magnetic balance. The method I came up with was to have two equal
      > sized magnets opposing each other equally. By using the two equally
      > opposing magnets I did not have to deal with any gaps or weak spots in
      > the magnetic forces. Next I looked at how I could design the device so
      > that I would have equal lengths in the Isotope line. The best design I
      > could come up with was a cone design not unlike what the group has
      > used in the past. The second criteria was the easiest to accomplish as
      > I wanted to have the cones machined and the magnets being used were so
      > close to identical that their imperfections would not throw out the
      > mechanical balance. The forth criteria was made by adding a heavy ball
      > that keeps the device from being mechanically balanced.
      > >
      > > I have found numerous advantages of this design over the current
      > designs the group is using. Some are:
      > > 1.. One of the advantages of this design was that I did not need
      > to have a base that moved with the precision required to keep the
      > device balanced and functional.
      > > 2.. The device was easy to balance magnetically.
      > > 3.. The device was easy to balance mechanically.
      > > 4.. The Isotope line was easy to keep in three equal lengths.
      > > 5.. It is easier to build a small device than a large one.
      > > Have a look at the design attached and see what you think. Hopefully
      > you will find new answers that make you ask more questions.
      > >
      > > I hope this new design gets the group thinking kick starts the group
      > into a successful new year.
      > >
      > > NST
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > ADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Header Codes
      > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
      > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
      > 11113: David Hamel reports
      > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
      > OT: "Off Topic"
      >
      > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
      > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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      >
      >
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    • billsaleen <bills1@cox.net>
      Mag Science, That Egyptian thing is EXACTLY what I thought after working on this a bit--the Egyptian drawings look more like what you originally drew (sans
      Message 45 of 45 , Jan 20, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Mag Science,

        That Egyptian thing is EXACTLY what I thought after working on this a
        bit--the Egyptian drawings look more like what you originally drew
        (sans outer rings, etc.)!
        Pretty neat huh? :)

        - Bill


        --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Mag Science" <magscience@h...> wrote:
        > Good stuff Bill.
        >
        > I just quickly checked what I feel are the important measurements on
        your drawings and it appears as though you have got them right. When
        looking at the side view, the center to center distance for the
        magnets must be the same as the cone tip to tip length. Don't worry
        about the kick in the bottom cone. The MPM measurement should be the
        center of the magnet on top of the cone to the bottom tip of the same
        cone. This does not have to be a physical edge of the cone to work. It
        can be the dashed lined that you showed, extended up a bit to the
        center line of the magnet. Have a look at it that way and see what you
        come up with.
        >
        > When you say that we should replicate the original, I agree, but
        maybe the Djed was the original. David says that this technology was
        supposed to handed to the Egyptians many years ago. Take a look at it
        and then back at the two drawings we have shown. How far off can we be?
        >
        > Mag Science
        >
        > P.S. I found this this week and thought it very fitting.
        > "A man with a new idea is a crank until he succeeds" - Mark Twain
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: billsaleen <bills1@c...>
        > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:44 PM
        > Subject: [hameltech] Re: 11111 Too complicated?
        >
        >
        > I thought this was a very interesting idea.
        > When I was in the middle of building a 15" 3CD I ran into some
        > problems. Plus, the amount of work and time required for such a thing
        > is higher than I want to invest right now.
        > Usually I would say that one should duplicate the exact design of the
        > working original, but if the purpose of the 3CD is more to get a feel
        > for the tech than it is to actually produce plasma then trying simpler
        > designs may be ok.
        > So, I have decided to try this. I have posted the schematic for my
        > design (cones only, and modified somewhat to fit the magnets) for any
        > who are interested.
        >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hameltech/files/BillSaleen/M3CDv1.1.1.pdf
        > Some notes on it: the ring magnets are 4.54"x.4" w/ 1.75" hole,
        > ceramic #5. The cones are not MPM; they needed to be modified to fit
        > the magnets (also notice the "kink"). The magnet gap is not entirely
        > arbitrary. It is based on the regular magnet gap and taking into
        > account the estimated weight of the cones. This is because there will
        > be no outer ring on which to balance the cones. The blue, dashed lines
        > are guides only.
        >
        > - Bill
        >
        > P.S.
        > Thanks to Travis' enthusiasm, I have another "phase" of passion to
        > direct toward this :)
        >
        >
        > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Mag Science" <magscience@h...>
        wrote:
        > > As the group approaches it's third year anniversary, Jan 1/03, I
        > can't help but wonder if the group is trying to make a device that is
        > too complicated due to all of the factors involved. Upon my review of
        > the information provided by the group and study of what I consider the
        > main design criteria for the device, plus the limited successes of the
        > group in building devices, I have to wonder.
        > >
        > > Now by no means am I suggesting that David Hamel or the group is
        > designing their devices wrong, or am I trying to belittle any efforts
        > of the builders or their successes. All I'm asking the group to do is
        > to take a step back and look at the design criteria the device needs
        > to function, and then review some other designs in how the device
        > could be made. Some may say that the device must be as David has told
        > us, but I ask you then, are the engines in our vehicles today the same
        > as the ones 100 years ago? The answer is no. The basic principle is
        > the same but designs are varied amongst the different manufacturers
        > and the technology level we are at today.
        > >
        > > Before I go into how I see the device working I would ask you to
        > clear your mind of the designs you have seen to date, and review the
        > principles outlined. If you do you will see how I put all of the
        > design criteria together into the device and you will see the
        > possibilities of the new design. I joined this group May 31 of 2001
        > and came up with this design by the end of June that same year. I
        > tried to bounce some of these ideas off of a few in the group but my
        > ideas were not received favorably, and thus I decided that maybe I
        > didn't come up with the answer in a month. I spent the last year and a
        > half reviewing the materials, designs, ideas, successes of the group
        > and compared the information to my design. In that time I have become
        > more convinced that this design should work and the group should know
        > about it.
        > >
        > > The design criteria:
        > > 1.. David Hamel has stated numerous times and he can't stress
        > enough that we need to have an Isotope line. As you can find out from
        > the information from the group, an Isotope line has three equal parts
        > or sections. The device, at rest should have a straight Isotope line,
        > and when not at rest each section of the Isotope line must remain the
        > same length.
        > > 2.. The group has concluded that the device must be balanced
        > mechanically. I take this to mean that when the device is balanced and
        > at rest, that the Isotope line should be straight or very close to it
        > and secondly that the three sections of the Isotope line have an equal
        > mechanical weight.
        > > 3.. Just as the device needs to be mechanically balanced, it needs
        > to be magnetically balanced. I take this to mean that when the device
        > is at rest that the magnetic forces make the Isotope line as straight
        > as possible. The magnetic forces are used to continually keep the
        > Isotope line in this neutral position or the device at rest.
        > > 4.. A force is required to keep the Isotope line from being
        straight.
        > > That's it four simple design criteria. Some of you may be asking
        > what about the MPM or the design criteria of the base? If you examine
        > a device that provides the first criteria then you will see that it
        > incorporates the MPM. If you study the function of the base you will
        > see that it is required to allow the bottom section of the Isotope
        > line to move while keeping the device mechanically and magnetically
        > balanced.
        > >
        > > Now when you look at the devices the group have made, you can see
        > right away why I ask if we are making the devices too complicated. The
        > first criteria can be examined by calculations made from the cone
        > designs. The second two criteria are determined by the design and
        > skills of the builder and the quality and consistency of the magnets.
        > >
        > > To make the design simpler I reviewed how to obtain the easiest
        > magnetic balance. The method I came up with was to have two equal
        > sized magnets opposing each other equally. By using the two equally
        > opposing magnets I did not have to deal with any gaps or weak spots in
        > the magnetic forces. Next I looked at how I could design the device so
        > that I would have equal lengths in the Isotope line. The best design I
        > could come up with was a cone design not unlike what the group has
        > used in the past. The second criteria was the easiest to accomplish as
        > I wanted to have the cones machined and the magnets being used were so
        > close to identical that their imperfections would not throw out the
        > mechanical balance. The forth criteria was made by adding a heavy ball
        > that keeps the device from being mechanically balanced.
        > >
        > > I have found numerous advantages of this design over the current
        > designs the group is using. Some are:
        > > 1.. One of the advantages of this design was that I did not need
        > to have a base that moved with the precision required to keep the
        > device balanced and functional.
        > > 2.. The device was easy to balance magnetically.
        > > 3.. The device was easy to balance mechanically.
        > > 4.. The Isotope line was easy to keep in three equal lengths.
        > > 5.. It is easier to build a small device than a large one.
        > > Have a look at the design attached and see what you think. Hopefully
        > you will find new answers that make you ask more questions.
        > >
        > > I hope this new design gets the group thinking kick starts the group
        > into a successful new year.
        > >
        > > NST
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Header Codes
        > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
        > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
        > 11113: David Hamel reports
        > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
        > OT: "Off Topic"
        >
        > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
        > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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