Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

[hameltech] Balancing cones

Expand Messages
  • dieo
    Hi, everybody, I have now my M3CD pcs. done, but I have found difficult to balanced the cones , does anybody knows if they supposed to be floating separated
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 7 12:15 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi, everybody,  I have now my M3CD pcs. done, but I have found difficult to balanced the cones , does anybody knows if they supposed to be floating separated from the outer rims before adjusting the top magnet? You see, the bottom one I know  it supposed to have a stronger repulsion than the top ones and so for, but they keep jumping and getting stalled to the sides. thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                           Diego
    • The Szymanek's
      If the cones are jumping out of the places, you have plenty of lift, this is good, as your cones will be really responsive. It also makes it hard to load the
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 7 4:00 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        If the cones are jumping out of the places, you have plenty of lift, this is good, as your cones will be really responsive. It also makes it hard to load the machine. You need to get all the cones in (hold them down with hands while loading the next. Then get the rejection plunger magnet in place. It should hold them down. My M3CD did that too, before I went with the other balancing system. I am just about ready to scrap the first M3CD I made, because it's balancing too poorly. I am working on my next M3CD, which will have 8" cones. It be built like Chris'. I am using AZ magnets with 3/4" air gaps (and 1/2" for the middle cone), so I will have plenty of lift too. However lift is very good to have. Your cones will vibrate easily, and properly.
        Good Luck,
        -Justin
         
         
         

        dieo wrote:

        Hi, everybody,  I have now my M3CD pcs. done, but I have found difficult to balanced the cones , does anybody knows if they supposed to be floating separated from the outer rims before adjusting the top magnet? You see, the bottom one I know  it supposed to have a stronger repulsion than the top ones and so for, but they keep jumping and getting stalled to the sides. thank you.                                                                                                                                                                  &n! bsp;  Diego
        To Post a message, send it to:   hameltech@...
        
        To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hameltech-unsubscribe@...



        eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/hameltech
        www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

      • vgruno2000@yahoo.com
        To: AtomicBuz, From information that has been sent by the members of this group I am led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a woble motion. If
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 8, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          To: AtomicBuz,

          From information that has been sent by the members of this group I am
          led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a woble
          motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed something
          somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my cones
          are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing them I
          found they were too heavy and so they are back at the machine shop on
          the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined and of
          equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
          If the cones do spin someone please advise.

          Val
        • Brian Keohi
          Hi Val, I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn t work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting action of that ball rolling
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 8, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Val,
            I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting action of that ball rolling around would be the top cone spinning...also in the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get his spinning, I could be wrong tho
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
            Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones

            To: AtomicBuz,

            From information that has been sent by the members of this group I am
            led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a woble
            motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed something
            somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my cones
            are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing them I
            found they were too heavy and so they are back at the machine shop on
            the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined and of
            equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
            If the cones do spin someone please advise.

            Val 


            Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
            Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • jszymanek2000@yahoo.com
            The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The cones vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small amount. Steve T. used a motor
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 8, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The cones
              vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small amount.
              Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am not
              really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve T.
              style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....

              The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a magnetic
              one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma stage) he
              told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from the
              device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of the
              cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the vibrations
              get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things to come
              apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly help
              smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as possible, but
              they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to stack
              your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point up, not
              leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
              BALANCED!!

              -Justin



              --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
              > Hi Val,
              > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
              work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting action
              of that ball rolling around would be the top cone spinning...also in
              the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get his
              spinning, I could be wrong tho
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: vgruno2000@y...
              > To: hameltech@y...
              > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
              > Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
              >
              >
              > To: AtomicBuz,
              >
              > From information that has been sent by the members of this group I
              am
              > led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a woble
              > motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed something
              > somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my cones
              > are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing them I
              > found they were too heavy and so they are back at the machine shop
              on
              > the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined and
              of
              > equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
              > If the cones do spin someone please advise.
              >
              > Val
              >
              >
              > Post message: hameltech@y...
              > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
              > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
              > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
            • Brian Keohi
              Justin I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in Steve T s experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite reaction...his
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 8, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Justin
                I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone would have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he told about.
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The cones
                vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small amount.
                Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am not
                really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve T.
                style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....

                The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a magnetic
                one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma stage) he
                told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from the
                device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of the
                cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the vibrations
                get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things to come
                apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly help
                smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as possible, but
                they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to stack
                your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point up, not
                leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                BALANCED!!

                -Justin



                --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                > Hi Val,
                > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting action
                of that ball rolling around would be the top cone spinning...also in
                the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get his
                spinning, I could be wrong tho
                >   ----- Original Message -----
                >   From: vgruno2000@y...
                >   To: hameltech@y...
                >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                >   Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                >
                >
                >   To: AtomicBuz,
                >
                >   From information that has been sent by the members of this group I
                am
                >   led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a woble
                >   motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed something
                >   somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my cones
                >   are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing them I
                >   found they were too heavy and so they are back at the machine shop
                on
                >   the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined and
                of
                >   equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                >   If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                >
                >   Val 
                >
                >
                >   Post message: hameltech@y...
                >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                >
                >
                >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.


                Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • Adriaan Erasmus
                Brian, The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them spun. According to
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  Brian,

                  The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                  the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them spun.
                  According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention of
                  the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                  is the ressonance that we are after.

                  I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                  it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't spin
                  is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                  rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                  cones from going into a spinning motion.
                  I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                  will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.

                  Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                  am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                  self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural gases,
                  anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                  motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                  force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                  are missing the whole point of the design.

                  That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                  this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                  a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.

                  Adriaan
                  --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                  > Justin
                  > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                  Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                  reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone would
                  have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                  have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                  with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                  the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                  told about.
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: jszymanek2000@y...
                  > To: hameltech@y...
                  > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                  > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                  >
                  >
                  > The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                  cones
                  > vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                  amount.
                  > Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am not
                  > really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                  T.
                  > style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                  >
                  > The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                  magnetic
                  > one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma stage)
                  he
                  > told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                  the
                  > device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of the
                  > cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                  vibrations
                  > get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things to
                  come
                  > apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                  help
                  > smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                  possible, but
                  > they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                  stack
                  > your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                  up, not
                  > leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                  > BALANCED!!
                  >
                  > -Justin
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                  > > Hi Val,
                  > > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                  > work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                  action
                  > of that ball rolling around would be the top cone spinning...also
                  in
                  > the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                  his
                  > spinning, I could be wrong tho
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: vgruno2000@y...
                  > > To: hameltech@y...
                  > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                  > > Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To: AtomicBuz,
                  > >
                  > > From information that has been sent by the members of this
                  group I
                  > am
                  > > led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                  woble
                  > > motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                  something
                  > > somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                  cones
                  > > are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                  them I
                  > > found they were too heavy and so they are back at the machine
                  shop
                  > on
                  > > the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                  and
                  > of
                  > > equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                  > > If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                  > >
                  > > Val
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                  > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                  > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                  > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > Post message: hameltech@y...
                  > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                  > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                  > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service.
                • David Koukourou
                  HI Guys, the cones can spin if they want. you see David Hamel originally spun the top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work. When a cone is
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    HI Guys,
                    the cones can spin if they want. you see David Hamel originally spun the
                    top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work. When a cone is
                    spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or wobble. eventually
                    the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in the resonance
                    state. I bought a spinning top the other day. when I spin it while you can
                    see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning top itself turns on
                    an axis separate from the top's spin. This secondary motion is the motion
                    that we want the cones to naturally be moving in. Notice that you can get
                    this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing cone and move your
                    finger around the edge.
                    I have heard that spinning the top cone to start the 45gd enables more
                    energy to be present at the start. I think it is a good idea to spinn at
                    the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey should be able to spin
                    without any cone-crashes. They should be weightless. If you build one and
                    spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.

                    David K

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@...]
                    Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                    To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones


                    Brian,

                    The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                    the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them spun.
                    According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention of
                    the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                    is the ressonance that we are after.

                    I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                    it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't spin
                    is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                    rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                    cones from going into a spinning motion.
                    I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                    will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.

                    Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                    am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                    self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural gases,
                    anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                    motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                    force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                    are missing the whole point of the design.

                    That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                    this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                    a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.

                    Adriaan
                    --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                    > Justin
                    > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                    Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                    reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone would
                    have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                    have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                    with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                    the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                    told about.
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: jszymanek2000@y...
                    > To: hameltech@y...
                    > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                    > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                    >
                    >
                    > The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                    cones
                    > vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                    amount.
                    > Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am not
                    > really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                    T.
                    > style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                    >
                    > The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                    magnetic
                    > one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma stage)
                    he
                    > told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                    the
                    > device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of the
                    > cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                    vibrations
                    > get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things to
                    come
                    > apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                    help
                    > smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                    possible, but
                    > they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                    stack
                    > your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                    up, not
                    > leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                    > BALANCED!!
                    >
                    > -Justin
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                    > > Hi Val,
                    > > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                    > work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                    action
                    > of that ball rolling around would be the top cone spinning...also
                    in
                    > the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                    his
                    > spinning, I could be wrong tho
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: vgruno2000@y...
                    > > To: hameltech@y...
                    > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                    > > Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To: AtomicBuz,
                    > >
                    > > From information that has been sent by the members of this
                    group I
                    > am
                    > > led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                    woble
                    > > motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                    something
                    > > somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                    cones
                    > > are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                    them I
                    > > found they were too heavy and so they are back at the machine
                    shop
                    > on
                    > > the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                    and
                    > of
                    > > equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                    > > If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                    > >
                    > > Val
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                    > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                    > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                    > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > Post message: hameltech@y...
                    > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                    > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                    > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.


                    Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Adriaan Erasmus
                    David, Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning top cone can lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much easier and more efficient ;)
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      David,

                      Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning top cone can
                      lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much easier and more
                      efficient ;)

                      The spinning will eventually stop and by this time the
                      motion/ressonance is already there and increasing in frequency.
                      Maybe get it spinning with a compressor jet ( with air ).

                      Thanks man
                      Adriaan

                      --- In hameltech@y..., "David Koukourou" <dkouk@b...> wrote:
                      > HI Guys,
                      > the cones can spin if they want. you see David Hamel
                      originally spun the
                      > top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work. When a
                      cone is
                      > spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or wobble.
                      eventually
                      > the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in the
                      resonance
                      > state. I bought a spinning top the other day. when I spin it
                      while you can
                      > see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning top itself
                      turns on
                      > an axis separate from the top's spin. This secondary motion is the
                      motion
                      > that we want the cones to naturally be moving in. Notice that you
                      can get
                      > this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing cone and
                      move your
                      > finger around the edge.
                      > I have heard that spinning the top cone to start the 45gd
                      enables more
                      > energy to be present at the start. I think it is a good idea to
                      spinn at
                      > the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey should be
                      able to spin
                      > without any cone-crashes. They should be weightless. If you build
                      one and
                      > spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.
                      >
                      > David K
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@y...]
                      > Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                      > To: hameltech@y...
                      > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                      >
                      >
                      > Brian,
                      >
                      > The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                      > the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them
                      spun.
                      > According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention
                      of
                      > the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                      > is the ressonance that we are after.
                      >
                      > I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                      > it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't
                      spin
                      > is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                      > rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                      > cones from going into a spinning motion.
                      > I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                      > will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.
                      >
                      > Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                      > am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                      > self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural
                      gases,
                      > anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                      > motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                      > force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                      > are missing the whole point of the design.
                      >
                      > That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                      > this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                      > a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.
                      >
                      > Adriaan
                      > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                      > > Justin
                      > > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                      > Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                      > reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone
                      would
                      > have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                      > have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                      > with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                      > the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                      > told about.
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: jszymanek2000@y...
                      > > To: hameltech@y...
                      > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                      > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                      > cones
                      > > vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                      > amount.
                      > > Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am
                      not
                      > > really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                      > T.
                      > > style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                      > >
                      > > The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                      > magnetic
                      > > one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma
                      stage)
                      > he
                      > > told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                      > the
                      > > device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of
                      the
                      > > cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                      > vibrations
                      > > get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things
                      to
                      > come
                      > > apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                      > help
                      > > smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                      > possible, but
                      > > they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                      > stack
                      > > your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                      > up, not
                      > > leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                      > > BALANCED!!
                      > >
                      > > -Justin
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                      > > > Hi Val,
                      > > > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                      > > work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                      > action
                      > > of that ball rolling around would be the top cone
                      spinning...also
                      > in
                      > > the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                      > his
                      > > spinning, I could be wrong tho
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: vgruno2000@y...
                      > > > To: hameltech@y...
                      > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                      > > > Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > To: AtomicBuz,
                      > > >
                      > > > From information that has been sent by the members of this
                      > group I
                      > > am
                      > > > led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                      > woble
                      > > > motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                      > something
                      > > > somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                      > cones
                      > > > are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                      > them I
                      > > > found they were too heavy and so they are back at the
                      machine
                      > shop
                      > > on
                      > > > the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                      > and
                      > > of
                      > > > equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                      > > > If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                      > > >
                      > > > Val
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                      > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                      > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                      > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > > Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                      > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                      > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                      > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > Post message: hameltech@y...
                      > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                      > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                      > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Brian Keohi
                      Hello again, David thanks for the info I m contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding the magnets into them during the process,..since the
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello again,
                        David thanks for the info
                        I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding the magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in fact weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with the increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them dynamically spin balanced...since no one  has told of actually seeing the cones moving once inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in fact start to spin on their own.
                         
                        I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a gyroscope, and I tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I made the lower gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of the top on gyroscope, thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is what gave me the idea of the cones spinning..I am also thinking of using 4 cones, because if what I see happening with the stacked tops is correct, three cones would have a natural unbalanced affect, since two cones would be moving in the same direction at the same time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to them.
                         
                        I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was very helpful to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about Steve T's experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually spinning inside the barrel, and started me playing with the gyroscopes.
                         
                        If my first version works the way I think it should my next step will be to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for better control, and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots, connected by  the an arm, this way I can pivot them in a certain direction to help increase the speed in which the cones spin. This would also give me the ability to pivot the ring magnets in the opposite direction to slow and even stop the cones from spinning.
                         
                        These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects that I have witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking for input from other experimentors
                         
                        Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                        Brian
                         
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:35 AM
                        Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                        David,

                        Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning top cone can
                        lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much easier and more
                        efficient ;)

                        The spinning will eventually stop and by this time the
                        motion/ressonance is already there and increasing in frequency.
                        Maybe get it spinning with a compressor jet ( with air ).

                        Thanks man
                        Adriaan

                        --- In hameltech@y..., "David Koukourou" <dkouk@b...> wrote:
                        > HI Guys,
                        >       the cones can spin if they want.  you see David Hamel
                        originally spun the
                        > top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work.  When a
                        cone is
                        > spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or wobble. 
                        eventually
                        > the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in the
                        resonance
                        > state.  I bought a spinning top the other day.  when I spin it
                        while you can
                        > see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning top itself
                        turns on
                        > an axis separate from the top's spin.  This secondary motion is the
                        motion
                        > that we want the cones to naturally be moving in.  Notice that you
                        can get
                        > this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing cone and
                        move your
                        > finger around the edge.
                        >       I have heard that spinning the top cone to start the 45gd
                        enables more
                        > energy to be present at the start.  I think it is a good idea to
                        spinn at
                        > the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey should be
                        able to spin
                        > without any cone-crashes.  They should be weightless.  If you build
                        one and
                        > spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.
                        >
                        > David K
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@y...]
                        > Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                        > To: hameltech@y...
                        > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                        >
                        >
                        > Brian,
                        >
                        > The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                        > the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them
                        spun.
                        > According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention
                        of
                        > the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                        > is the ressonance that we are after.
                        >
                        > I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                        > it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't
                        spin
                        > is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                        > rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                        > cones from going into a spinning motion.
                        > I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                        > will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.
                        >
                        > Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                        > am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                        > self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural
                        gases,
                        > anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                        > motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                        > force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                        > are missing the whole point of the design.
                        >
                        > That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                        > this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                        > a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.
                        >
                        > Adriaan
                        > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                        > > Justin
                        > > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                        > Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                        > reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone
                        would
                        > have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                        > have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                        > with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                        > the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                        > told about.
                        > >   ----- Original Message -----
                        > >   From: jszymanek2000@y...
                        > >   To: hameltech@y...
                        > >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                        > >   Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >   The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                        > cones
                        > >   vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                        > amount.
                        > >   Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am
                        not
                        > >   really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                        > T.
                        > >   style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                        > >
                        > >   The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                        > magnetic
                        > >   one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma
                        stage)
                        > he
                        > >   told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                        > the
                        > >   device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of
                        the
                        > >   cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                        > vibrations
                        > >   get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things
                        to
                        > come
                        > >   apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                        > help
                        > >   smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                        > possible, but
                        > >   they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                        > stack
                        > >   your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                        > up, not
                        > >   leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                        > >   BALANCED!!
                        > >
                        > >   -Justin
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >   --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                        > >   > Hi Val,
                        > >   > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                        > >   work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                        > action
                        > >   of that ball rolling around would be the top cone
                        spinning...also
                        > in
                        > >   the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                        > his
                        > >   spinning, I could be wrong tho
                        > >   >   ----- Original Message -----
                        > >   >   From: vgruno2000@y...
                        > >   >   To: hameltech@y...
                        > >   >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                        > >   >   Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                        > >   >
                        > >   >
                        > >   >   To: AtomicBuz,
                        > >   >
                        > >   >   From information that has been sent by the members of this
                        > group I
                        > >   am
                        > >   >   led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                        > woble
                        > >   >   motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                        > something
                        > >   >   somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                        > cones
                        > >   >   are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                        > them I
                        > >   >   found they were too heavy and so they are back at the
                        machine
                        > shop
                        > >   on
                        > >   >   the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                        > and
                        > >   of
                        > >   >   equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                        > >   >   If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                        > >   >
                        > >   >   Val
                        > >   >
                        > >   >
                        > >   >   Post message: hameltech@y...
                        > >   >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                        > >   >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                        > >   >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                        > >   >
                        > >   >
                        > >   >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > >   Service.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >   Post message: hameltech@y...
                        > >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                        > >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                        > >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > Service.
                        >
                        >
                        > Post message: hameltech@y...
                        > Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                        > Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                        > List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                        Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                        Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • Ole Jensen
                        Brian, The effect that you are trying to replicate would be completely eliminated if the cones were to spin very fast or very long. the whole point is to move
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Brian,

                          The effect that you are trying to replicate would be
                          completely eliminated if the cones were to spin very
                          fast or very long. the whole point is to move air,
                          the wobbling has this effect, spinning would not.
                          the movement of the air, possibly in conjunction with
                          the magnets, causes the plasma to form. the highly
                          magnetic nature of the plasma would adversely affect
                          your electromagnets.

                          several people have stated this already. the objective is
                          not to make the cones spin. they must wobble to have
                          a desireable product. if they spin, something unique
                          and different may occur, but it will not be what was
                          intended by Mr Hamel in his experiment. In the ship
                          engine, it is impossible for the wings (analagous
                          to the cones) can not move more than 1/4 inch in
                          any direction. They CANNOT spin. they wobble.

                          Ole.

                          --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                          > Hello again,
                          > David thanks for the info
                          > I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding
                          the magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in
                          fact weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with
                          the increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them
                          dynamically spin balanced...since no one has told of actually seeing
                          the cones moving once inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in
                          fact start to spin on their own.
                          >
                          > I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a gyroscope,
                          and I tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I
                          made the lower gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of
                          the top on gyroscope, thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is
                          what gave me the idea of the cones spinning..I am also thinking of
                          using 4 cones, because if what I see happening with the stacked tops
                          is correct, three cones would have a natural unbalanced affect, since
                          two cones would be moving in the same direction at the same
                          time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to them.
                          >
                          > I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was very
                          helpful to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about
                          Steve T's experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually
                          spinning inside the barrel, and started me playing with the
                          gyroscopes.
                          >
                          > If my first version works the way I think it should my next step
                          will be to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for
                          better control, and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots,
                          connected by the an arm, this way I can pivot them in a certain
                          direction to help increase the speed in which the cones spin. This
                          would also give me the ability to pivot the ring magnets in the
                          opposite direction to slow and even stop the cones from spinning.
                          >
                          > These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects that I
                          have witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking
                          for input from other experimentors
                          >
                          > Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                          > Brian
                          >
                          >
                          snip...
                        • Brian Keohi
                          Ole, My idea of the cones actually spinning on their own, while wobbling in the isotope line, started out with the WISgen description...as I held a cone in my
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ole,
                            My idea of the cones actually spinning on their own, while wobbling in the isotope line, started out with the WISgen description...as I held a cone in my hand and got the ball to roll around in the interior of it ( the wobble effect you speak of ), it became evident that, if the cone I was holding was weightless, instead of my hand holding it to create the desired isotope line effect, the rolling motion of the ball would cause the cone to rotate in the opposite direction of the ball, the faster the ball rolled around in the cone,the faster the cone would rotate in opposition to the ball. Thus the spinning motion I'm speaking of.
                             
                            Then I looked at the idea of using a "repulsing magnet" to provide the down force instead of the ball, and one important element, to me anyway, seemed to be missing. The "rotational speed of the ball" and it's counter effect on the cones.
                            I believe that this rotational motion is needed. also I believe that the cones spinning, while wobbling in the isotope line, will generate a greater magnetic plasma field. Like the magnetic fields created in an electric motor. Also since the "repulsing magnet" on the barrel top is what creates the " wobbling ", the spinning of the cones shouldn't hinder the desired motion,but should help to make the "wobble" increase in its oscillation speed.
                             
                            I have also not heard of one of these experiments working without self destructing,other than the one by Mr. Hamel. As for the one created by Steve T. and since he did use an electric motor to get his started, the reaction of the wheel rolling around in his upper cone would have caused the cone to spin in opposition to the direction of the motor, while producing the desired "wobble".
                            Mr. Hamel's took a few hours to get up to speed after he spun it manually, and I'm thinking that it took that long for the cones to generate enough momentum to increase their spinning in relation to the desired "wobble" needed to generate the plasma field.
                             
                            I may be way off base but, these are issues that from the reading of other peoples experiments, I haven't seen being addressed or discussed. so I'm pointing them out and asking if anyone has looked at these or considered them in the design our their experiments.
                             
                            Brian
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:51 AM
                            Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                            Brian,

                            The effect that you are trying to replicate would be
                            completely eliminated if the cones were to spin very
                            fast or very long. the whole point is to move air,
                            the wobbling has this effect, spinning would not.
                            the movement of the air, possibly in conjunction with
                            the magnets, causes the plasma to form. the highly
                            magnetic nature of the plasma would adversely affect
                            your electromagnets.

                            several people have stated this already. the objective is
                            not to make the cones spin. they must wobble to have
                            a desireable product. if they spin, something unique
                            and different may occur, but it will not be what was
                            intended by Mr Hamel in his experiment. In the ship
                            engine, it is impossible for the wings (analagous
                            to the cones) can not move more than 1/4 inch in
                            any direction. They CANNOT spin. they wobble.

                            Ole.

                            --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                            > Hello again,
                            > David thanks for the info
                            > I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding
                            the magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in
                            fact weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with
                            the increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them
                            dynamically spin balanced...since no one  has told of actually seeing
                            the cones moving once inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in
                            fact start to spin on their own.
                            >
                            > I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a gyroscope,
                            and I tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I
                            made the lower gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of
                            the top on gyroscope, thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is
                            what gave me the idea of the cones spinning..I am also thinking of
                            using 4 cones, because if what I see happening with the stacked tops
                            is correct, three cones would have a natural unbalanced affect, since
                            two cones would be moving in the same direction at the same
                            time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to them.
                            >
                            > I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was very
                            helpful to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about
                            Steve T's experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually
                            spinning inside the barrel, and started me playing with the
                            gyroscopes.
                            >
                            > If my first version works the way I think it should my next step
                            will be to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for
                            better control, and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots,
                            connected by  the an arm, this way I can pivot them in a certain
                            direction to help increase the speed in which the cones spin. This
                            would also give me the ability to pivot the ring magnets in the
                            opposite direction to slow and even stop the cones from spinning.
                            >
                            > These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects that I
                            have witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking
                            for input from other experimentors
                            >
                            > Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                            > Brian
                            >
                            >
                            snip...


                            Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                            Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          • Cfelton
                            The cones DO NOT spin in a complete circle. They will have a slight spin when building up to resonance, but only about 1/8 turn per minute or less. When the
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              The cones DO NOT spin in a complete circle.  They will have a slight spin when building up to resonance, but only about 1/8 turn per minute or less.  When the cones are resonating there is NO spin just a high speed wobble.  You will see the cones appear to stop moving, but that is not the case.  If you can get a look at the reflection coming off the top cone magnet, you will see a shimmering reflection.  The wobble is so fast, it is like looking at the rear section of a flying bee.
                               
                              If you spin the top cone, it will reach resonance faster, and the top cone will stop spinning and wobble.  I have tried spinning all cones and it comes apart very quickly due to minor imbalances.  WOBBLE not Spin.
                               
                               
                              Chris
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:30 AM
                              Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                              Hello again,
                              David thanks for the info
                              I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding the magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in fact weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with the increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them dynamically spin balanced...since no one  has told of actually seeing the cones moving once inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in fact start to spin on their own.
                               
                              I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a gyroscope, and I tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I made the lower gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of the top on gyroscope, thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is what gave me the idea of the cones spinning..I am also thinking of using 4 cones, because if what I see happening with the stacked tops is correct, three cones would have a natural unbalanced affect, since two cones would be moving in the same direction at the same time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to them.
                               
                              I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was very helpful to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about Steve T's experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually spinning inside the barrel, and started me playing with the gyroscopes.
                               
                              If my first version works the way I think it should my next step will be to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for better control, and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots, connected by  the an arm, this way I can pivot them in a certain direction to help increase the speed in which the cones spin. This would also give me the ability to pivot the ring magnets in the opposite direction to slow and even stop the cones from spinning.
                               
                              These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects that I have witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking for input from other experimentors
                               
                              Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                              Brian
                               
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:35 AM
                              Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                              David,

                              Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning top cone can
                              lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much easier and more
                              efficient ;)

                              The spinning will eventually stop and by this time the
                              motion/ressonance is already there and increasing in frequency.
                              Maybe get it spinning with a compressor jet ( with air ).

                              Thanks man
                              Adriaan

                              --- In hameltech@y..., "David Koukourou" <dkouk@b...> wrote:
                              > HI Guys,
                              >       the cones can spin if they want.  you see David Hamel
                              originally spun the
                              > top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work.  When a
                              cone is
                              > spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or wobble. 
                              eventually
                              > the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in the
                              resonance
                              > state.  I bought a spinning top the other day.  when I spin it
                              while you can
                              > see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning top itself
                              turns on
                              > an axis separate from the top's spin.  This secondary motion is the
                              motion
                              > that we want the cones to naturally be moving in.  Notice that you
                              can get
                              > this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing cone and
                              move your
                              > finger around the edge.
                              >       I have heard that spinning the top cone to start the 45gd
                              enables more
                              > energy to be present at the start.  I think it is a good idea to
                              spinn at
                              > the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey should be
                              able to spin
                              > without any cone-crashes.  They should be weightless.  If you build
                              one and
                              > spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.
                              >
                              > David K
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@y...]
                              > Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                              > To: hameltech@y...
                              > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                              >
                              >
                              > Brian,
                              >
                              > The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                              > the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them
                              spun.
                              > According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention
                              of
                              > the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                              > is the ressonance that we are after.
                              >
                              > I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                              > it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't
                              spin
                              > is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                              > rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                              > cones from going into a spinning motion.
                              > I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                              > will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.
                              >
                              > Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                              > am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                              > self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural
                              gases,
                              > anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                              > motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                              > force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                              > are missing the whole point of the design.
                              >
                              > That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                              > this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                              > a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.
                              >
                              > Adriaan
                              > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                              > > Justin
                              > > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                              > Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                              > reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone
                              would
                              > have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                              > have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                              > with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                              > the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                              > told about.
                              > >   ----- Original Message -----
                              > >   From: jszymanek2000@y...
                              > >   To: hameltech@y...
                              > >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                              > >   Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >   The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                              > cones
                              > >   vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                              > amount.
                              > >   Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am
                              not
                              > >   really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                              > T.
                              > >   style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                              > >
                              > >   The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                              > magnetic
                              > >   one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma
                              stage)
                              > he
                              > >   told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                              > the
                              > >   device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of
                              the
                              > >   cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                              > vibrations
                              > >   get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things
                              to
                              > come
                              > >   apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                              > help
                              > >   smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                              > possible, but
                              > >   they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                              > stack
                              > >   your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                              > up, not
                              > >   leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                              > >   BALANCED!!
                              > >
                              > >   -Justin
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >   --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                              > >   > Hi Val,
                              > >   > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                              > >   work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                              > action
                              > >   of that ball rolling around would be the top cone
                              spinning...also
                              > in
                              > >   the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                              > his
                              > >   spinning, I could be wrong tho
                              > >   >   ----- Original Message -----
                              > >   >   From: vgruno2000@y...
                              > >   >   To: hameltech@y...
                              > >   >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                              > >   >   Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                              > >   >
                              > >   >
                              > >   >   To: AtomicBuz,
                              > >   >
                              > >   >   From information that has been sent by the members of this
                              > group I
                              > >   am
                              > >   >   led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                              > woble
                              > >   >   motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                              > something
                              > >   >   somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                              > cones
                              > >   >   are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                              > them I
                              > >   >   found they were too heavy and so they are back at the
                              machine
                              > shop
                              > >   on
                              > >   >   the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                              > and
                              > >   of
                              > >   >   equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                              > >   >   If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                              > >   >
                              > >   >   Val
                              > >   >
                              > >   >
                              > >   >   Post message: hameltech@y...
                              > >   >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                              > >   >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                              > >   >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                              > >   >
                              > >   >
                              > >   >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              > >   Service.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >   Post message: hameltech@y...
                              > >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                              > >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                              > >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              > Service.
                              >
                              >
                              > Post message: hameltech@y...
                              > Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                              > Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                              > List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                              Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                              Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                              Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                              Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            • Ole Jensen
                              Brian, I will intermix my replies in the original text below Ole. ... in the isotope line, started out with the WISgen description...as I held a cone in my
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Brian, I will intermix my replies in the original text below
                                Ole.
                                --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                > Ole,
                                > My idea of the cones actually spinning on their own, while wobbling
                                in the isotope line, started out with the WISgen description...as I
                                held a cone in my hand and got the ball to roll around in the
                                interior of it ( the wobble effect you speak of ), it became evident
                                that, if the cone I was holding was weightless, instead of my hand
                                holding it to create the desired isotope line effect, the rolling
                                motion of the ball would cause the cone to rotate in the opposite
                                direction of the ball, the faster the ball rolled around in the
                                cone,the faster the cone would rotate in opposition to the ball. Thus
                                the spinning motion I'm speaking of.
                                >

                                -- the cone device and the WIS device are 2 totally different
                                devices. the WIS device appears to produce motion. I am
                                not an expert in that. however when Mr Hamel showed me
                                the parts for his WIS device, there are 3 parts, ball on top,
                                ball-like thing with a cone inside, and the rod that passes
                                the motion onward. this has nothing to do with the experimental
                                3 cone device. you do not put a WIS weight into a cone to
                                get it moving. --

                                > Then I looked at the idea of using a "repulsing magnet" to provide
                                the down force instead of the ball, and one important element, to me
                                anyway, seemed to be missing. The "rotational speed of the ball" and
                                it's counter effect on the cones.
                                > I believe that this rotational motion is needed. also I believe
                                that the cones spinning, while wobbling in the isotope line, will
                                generate a greater magnetic plasma field. Like the magnetic fields
                                created in an electric motor. Also since the "repulsing magnet" on
                                the barrel top is what creates the " wobbling ", the spinning of the
                                cones shouldn't hinder the desired motion,but should help to make the
                                "wobble" increase in its oscillation speed.
                                >
                                -- your getting your devices mixed up still. WIS and cones
                                are different things. in the cone device, there is so much
                                fresh air that you create a hot air zone, not a plasma. if
                                you seal it up, you may get a plasma if you wait long enough.
                                Mr Hamel calls the 3cd a furnace, because it will generate
                                heat, but unless you seal it, it won't generate plasma, and
                                he advises against that anyway because it is dangerous. --

                                > I have also not heard of one of these experiments working without
                                self destructing,other than the one by Mr. Hamel. As for the one
                                created by Steve T. and since he did use an electric motor to get his
                                started, the reaction of the wheel rolling around in his upper cone
                                would have caused the cone to spin in opposition to the direction of
                                the motor, while producing the desired "wobble".

                                -- There are other devices that have worked. read the posts.
                                B. St Clair has a very good site that shows how he made it
                                work properly. ---

                                > Mr. Hamel's took a few hours to get up to speed after he spun it
                                manually, and I'm thinking that it took that long for the cones to
                                generate enough momentum to increase their spinning in relation to
                                the desired "wobble" needed to generate the plasma field.
                                >
                                -- it took that long to turn the air into a plasma because it
                                was not intended to do that, that was a side effect that he
                                didn't count on. He advises everyone to allow air holes so
                                it doesn't happen to them. --

                                > I may be way off base but, these are issues that from the reading
                                of other peoples experiments, I haven't seen being addressed or
                                discussed. so I'm pointing them out and asking if anyone has looked
                                at these or considered them in the design our their experiments.
                                >

                                -- most of these points have been addressed in previous posts.
                                when I started looking at this, I thought they spun, but
                                everyone who had made one work, said NO. it wobbles. --
                                > Brian
                                >
                                snip...
                              • Steven Dufresne
                                FWIW Just to add to this thread about spinning... Someone earlier, I think it was David K. said that David Hamel said he spun his cones to start them. These
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  FWIW Just to add to this thread about spinning... Someone earlier, I think
                                  it was David K. said that David Hamel said he spun his cones to start them.
                                  These are my notes which I wrote after a visit to David:
                                  - I asked him how he started it up. Various people asked me to ask him
                                  this. He said that all he did was bolt on the lid.
                                  - I asked David if the cones rotate or spin? David said no, they just
                                  wobble.
                                  Steve(n D.)

                                  Previously, you (Cfelton) wrote:
                                  > The cones DO NOT spin in a complete circle. They will have a slight spin when building up to resonance, but only about 1/8 turn per minute or less. When the cones are resonating there is NO spin just a high speed wobble. You will see the cones appear to stop moving, but that is not the case. If you can get a look at the reflection coming off the top cone magnet, you will see a shimmering reflection. The wobble is so fast, it is like looking at the rear section of a flying bee.
                                  >
                                  > If you spin the top cone, it will reach resonance faster, and the top cone will stop spinning and wobble. I have tried spinning all cones and it comes apart very quickly due to minor imbalances. WOBBLE not Spin.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Chris
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Brian Keohi
                                  > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:30 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hello again,
                                  > David thanks for the info
                                  > I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding the magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in fact weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with the increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them dynamically spin balanced...since no one has told of actually seeing the cones moving once inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in fact start to spin on their own.
                                  >
                                  > I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a gyroscope, and I tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I made the lower gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of the top on gyroscope, thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is what gave me the idea of the cones spinning..I am also thinking of using 4 cones, because if what I see happening with the stacked tops is correct, three cones would have a natural unbalanced affect, since two cones would be moving in the same direction at the same time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to them.
                                  >
                                  > I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was very helpful to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about Steve T's experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually spinning inside the barrel, and started me playing with the gyroscopes.
                                  >
                                  > If my first version works the way I think it should my next step will be to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for better control, and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots, connected by the an arm, this way I can pivot them in a certain direction to help increase the speed in which the cones spin. This would also give me the ability to pivot the ring magnets in the opposite direction to slow and even stop the cones from spinning.
                                  >
                                  > These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects that I have witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking for input from other experimentors
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                                  > Brian
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Adriaan Erasmus
                                  > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:35 AM
                                  > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > David,
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning top cone can
                                  > lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much easier and more
                                  > efficient ;)
                                  >
                                  > The spinning will eventually stop and by this time the
                                  > motion/ressonance is already there and increasing in frequency.
                                  > Maybe get it spinning with a compressor jet ( with air ).
                                  >
                                  > Thanks man
                                  > Adriaan
                                  >
                                  > --- In hameltech@y..., "David Koukourou" <dkouk@b...> wrote:
                                  > > HI Guys,
                                  > > the cones can spin if they want. you see David Hamel
                                  > originally spun the
                                  > > top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work. When a
                                  > cone is
                                  > > spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or wobble.
                                  > eventually
                                  > > the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in the
                                  > resonance
                                  > > state. I bought a spinning top the other day. when I spin it
                                  > while you can
                                  > > see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning top itself
                                  > turns on
                                  > > an axis separate from the top's spin. This secondary motion is the
                                  > motion
                                  > > that we want the cones to naturally be moving in. Notice that you
                                  > can get
                                  > > this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing cone and
                                  > move your
                                  > > finger around the edge.
                                  > > I have heard that spinning the top cone to start the 45gd
                                  > enables more
                                  > > energy to be present at the start. I think it is a good idea to
                                  > spinn at
                                  > > the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey should be
                                  > able to spin
                                  > > without any cone-crashes. They should be weightless. If you build
                                  > one and
                                  > > spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.
                                  > >
                                  > > David K
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@y...]
                                  > > Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                                  > > To: hameltech@y...
                                  > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Brian,
                                  > >
                                  > > The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                                  > > the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them
                                  > spun.
                                  > > According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention
                                  > of
                                  > > the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                                  > > is the ressonance that we are after.
                                  > >
                                  > > I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                                  > > it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't
                                  > spin
                                  > > is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                                  > > rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                                  > > cones from going into a spinning motion.
                                  > > I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                                  > > will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.
                                  > >
                                  > > Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                                  > > am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                                  > > self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural
                                  > gases,
                                  > > anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                                  > > motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                                  > > force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                                  > > are missing the whole point of the design.
                                  > >
                                  > > That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                                  > > this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                                  > > a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.
                                  > >
                                  > > Adriaan
                                  > > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                  > > > Justin
                                  > > > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                                  > > Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                                  > > reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone
                                  > would
                                  > > have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                                  > > have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                                  > > with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                                  > > the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                                  > > told about.
                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > From: jszymanek2000@y...
                                  > > > To: hameltech@y...
                                  > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                                  > > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                                  > > cones
                                  > > > vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                                  > > amount.
                                  > > > Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am
                                  > not
                                  > > > really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                                  > > T.
                                  > > > style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                                  > > magnetic
                                  > > > one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma
                                  > stage)
                                  > > he
                                  > > > told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                                  > > the
                                  > > > device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of
                                  > the
                                  > > > cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                                  > > vibrations
                                  > > > get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things
                                  > to
                                  > > come
                                  > > > apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                                  > > help
                                  > > > smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                                  > > possible, but
                                  > > > they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                                  > > stack
                                  > > > your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                                  > > up, not
                                  > > > leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                                  > > > BALANCED!!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > -Justin
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                  > > > > Hi Val,
                                  > > > > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                                  > > > work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                                  > > action
                                  > > > of that ball rolling around would be the top cone
                                  > spinning...also
                                  > > in
                                  > > > the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                                  > > his
                                  > > > spinning, I could be wrong tho
                                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > From: vgruno2000@y...
                                  > > > > To: hameltech@y...
                                  > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                                  > > > > Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > To: AtomicBuz,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From information that has been sent by the members of this
                                  > > group I
                                  > > > am
                                  > > > > led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                                  > > woble
                                  > > > > motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                                  > > something
                                  > > > > somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                                  > > cones
                                  > > > > are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                                  > > them I
                                  > > > > found they were too heavy and so they are back at the
                                  > machine
                                  > > shop
                                  > > > on
                                  > > > > the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                                  > > and
                                  > > > of
                                  > > > > equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                                  > > > > If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Val
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                  > > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                  > > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                  > > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  > > > Service.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                  > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                  > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                  > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                  > > Service.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                  > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                  > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                  > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                  >
                                • Georgia Hartley
                                  actually I thought the Plasma was desired. No one has said that it is not desirable. Also about spin vs. wobble. Frankly every video I have seen of people s
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    actually I thought the Plasma was desired. No one has said that it is not
                                    desirable.

                                    Also about spin vs. wobble. Frankly every video I have seen of people's
                                    projects shows that the cones are spinning. Yes they do look like they
                                    stop, and then just wobble. That is an optical illsuion
                                    Just look at a car's tires going down the road. if it didn't have lettering
                                    you might not know it was spinning.

                                    I say he's got some very interesting and valid observations. I say try it.
                                    this is about research,

                                    I really love the electromagnet idea too. that's very creative.
                                    :-) Georgia


                                    >the desired "wobble" needed to generate the plasma field.
                                    >>
                                    >-- it took that long to turn the air into a plasma because it
                                    >was not intended to do that, that was a side effect that he
                                    >didn't count on. He advises everyone to allow air holes so
                                    >it doesn't happen to them. --
                                    >
                                  • Brian Keohi
                                    Thanks Georgia from other reading I ve been doing here...everyone said that their devices glow...but there is NO heat generated...and according to what Mr.
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks Georgia
                                      from other reading I've been doing here...everyone said that their devices glow...but there is NO heat generated...and according to what Mr. Hamel said..it should work on an implosion ( which would create cold ) NOT an explosion ( which would generate heat )..I'm getting conflicting details here.
                                      One reason why some of these devices might be " coming apart" is because the cones are indeed spinning and the magnets can't compensate for the dynamic imbalances of the cones.
                                       
                                      Also just lets just say that the cones do spin, contrary to popular belief, I read that the air holes were to control the oscillation speed, which actually I believe it would create air friction and slow down the spinning of the cones, thus keeping them from an over speed condition that seems to have been destroying some of the devices, or if the device does work on an implosion method, the holes help not to let the working device create a vacuum inside and cave in on itself.
                                       
                                      This is why I'm questioning about spinning...I believe this theory will work, and I'm asking my questions and stating my observances of rotating mass.
                                       
                                      I've just read alot of stories about everyone building their device the same way with the same results.
                                      Brian
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 1:04 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                                      actually I thought the Plasma was desired.  No one has said that it is not
                                      desirable.

                                      Also about spin vs. wobble.  Frankly every video I have seen of people's
                                      projects shows that the cones are spinning.  Yes they do look like they
                                      stop, and then just wobble.  That is an optical illsuion
                                      Just look at a car's tires going down the road.  if it didn't have lettering
                                      you might not know it was spinning.

                                      I say he's got some very interesting and valid observations.  I say try it.
                                      this is about research,

                                      I really love the electromagnet idea too.  that's very creative.
                                      :-) Georgia


                                      >the desired "wobble" needed to generate the plasma field.
                                      >>
                                      >-- it took that long to turn the air into a plasma because it
                                      >was not intended to do that, that was a side effect that he
                                      >didn't count on. He advises everyone to allow air holes so
                                      >it doesn't happen to them. --
                                      >


                                      Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                    • Georgia Hartley
                                      Again very valid points. From what I understand of physics I think you are correct. I haven t gotten mine working yet though so I can t say positively.
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Again very valid points.  From what I understand of physics I think you are correct.  I haven't gotten mine working yet though so I can't say positively. (Juggling far too many bills right now. )  About the air holes. It is basically like a turbine engine.  If you bring air in you have to have an outlet. Also the size or amount of air hole is more for pressure I thought.  Too big or too many and not enough pressure to sustain the plasma field.
                                         
                                        Part of the problem with folks recreating the same errors is that  each person is coming to this new.  So they start at the beginning find out from their mistakes and go from there.  I work in R&D so I see this kind of process whenever a different person steps in to take over a project.  They go all the way back to the beginning.  It's the learning process.  Someone who has more experience or knowledge can jump ahead and not backtrack so much.  But because this is entirely new territory for most of us, the accepted way to go about it is to attempt to recreate the original because it is not known what the end results will be with a variation. 
                                         
                                        The only thing that you have suggested that I think might cause a problem is stacking four cones instead of three.  But you never know until you try.  Some folks have used only two cones
                                         
                                        The persons I would listen to on the list as they have the most experience are Chris Felton, Justin Syszmanic, Dan La Rochelle, David K, & Brian St. Clair. There may be a few more that have got things going fairly well but I can't think of who off the top of my head.  So if I left anyone out sorry.
                                         
                                        Me I'm just the devils advocate, because I'm learning from everything people say here, just wish I could experiment more.  But my freetime just got even less because my department just got downsized.
                                         
                                        I do look forward to hearing about your results.
                                         
                                        :-) Georgia
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                      • Brian Keohi
                                        Georgia, I too worked R&D for SAIC ( Science Application International Corp ) and I was on loan to Sandia National Labs, I worked on the nuclear waste
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Georgia,
                                          I too worked R&D for SAIC ( Science Application International Corp ) and I was on loan to Sandia National Labs, I worked on the nuclear waste repository studies.
                                          I do have an engineering background :)
                                          I understand where you are coming from on " why everyone works off the same design and theory" but no one has produced the same results of Mr. Hamel, in that his took off and left for space.
                                          The reason I decided to go with carbon fiber is its light weight and strength also I can create a mold for making the other cones needed where they all will be uniform...as for cost, that will depend on just how big I'm going to make them..I can get the carbon fiber from Boeing surplus..as for making the molds I have access to a large lath and would make the molds out of wood in a male female plug design.then get the proper sized drill bit and make the holes for the magnets in the female plug..mount the magnets using wax ( this way they will stay put while I lay in the carbon fiber and resin) and then apply the carbon fiber to the inside of the female plug..I believe that the resins would bond with the magnets..keeping them in place. from what I've been reading even if the cones didn't spin, I'd imagine that the high frequency wobbling would cause fatigue on the adhesive securing the magnets to an aluminum cone,  eventually causing failure.
                                          I'm not one to  duplicate someone elses failure, thats why I'm pointing out all the possibilities of motion within these devices, and looking for the responses from others who have built one.
                                           
                                          I just recently found this site and I have been reading all I can find. Ole suggested I read on Brian St. Clair's experiment, but I'm not sure where to find it. if anyone can tell me where I can find it I'd appreciate it alot
                                          Thanks for all the great input
                                          Brian
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 2:00 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                                          Again very valid points.  From what I understand of physics I think you are correct.  I haven't gotten mine working yet though so I can't say positively. (Juggling far too many bills right now. )  About the air holes. It is basically like a turbine engine.  If you bring air in you have to have an outlet. Also the size or amount of air hole is more for pressure I thought.  Too big or too many and not enough pressure to sustain the plasma field.
                                           
                                          Part of the problem with folks recreating the same errors is that  each person is coming to this new.  So they start at the beginning find out from their mistakes and go from there.  I work in R&D so I see this kind of process whenever a different person steps in to take over a project.  They go all the way back to the beginning.  It's the learning process.  Someone who has more experience or knowledge can jump ahead and not backtrack so much.  But because this is entirely new territory for most of us, the accepted way to go about it is to attempt to recreate the original because it is not known what the end results will be with a variation. 
                                           
                                          The only thing that you have suggested that I think might cause a problem is stacking four cones instead of three.  But you never know until you try.  Some folks have used only two cones
                                           
                                          The persons I would listen to on the list as they have the most experience are Chris Felton, Justin Syszmanic, Dan La Rochelle, David K, & Brian St. Clair. There may be a few more that have got things going fairly well but I can't think of who off the top of my head.  So if I left anyone out sorry.
                                           
                                          Me I'm just the devils advocate, because I'm learning from everything people say here, just wish I could experiment more.  But my freetime just got even less because my department just got downsized.
                                           
                                          I do look forward to hearing about your results.
                                           
                                          :-) Georgia
                                           
                                           
                                           
                                           

                                          Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                        • David Koukourou
                                          Hi there, I did say this and I still believe David has said spin the top cone to start it. He may not have done it in the device that ?ploded. Simply putting
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi there,
                                            I did say this and I still believe David has said spin the top cone to
                                            start it. He may not have done it in the device that ?ploded. Simply
                                            putting the lid on it might work especially if the device is all setup
                                            right. Also David would say : David said no, they just
                                            wobble.
                                            If I were telling you about this thing I wouldn't tell you that it spins
                                            because it WILL confuse your thoughts. David H is correct here even though
                                            he and I and others have mentioned that spinning can be a useful tool for
                                            starting.

                                            About the hot/not hot plasma issue. Plasma to my knowledge is over a
                                            thousand degrees in temperature. If it was only about say 200-300 degrees
                                            hot then it could be called cold. note that you could still feel warmth
                                            from the cold plasma its just not the usual thousands of degrees type of
                                            plasma.

                                            finally I just wanted to re-say: I am working and talking on the 45gd
                                            device. It doesn't fly. And isn't supposed to fly any more than a bird
                                            without wings can fly. (45gd = birds heart / HFS = bird)

                                            Cheers
                                            David K

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Steven Dufresne [mailto:stevend@...]
                                            Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2001 4:57 AM
                                            To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones


                                            FWIW Just to add to this thread about spinning... Someone earlier, I think
                                            it was David K. said that David Hamel said he spun his cones to start them.
                                            These are my notes which I wrote after a visit to David:
                                            - I asked him how he started it up. Various people asked me to ask him
                                            this. He said that all he did was bolt on the lid.
                                            - I asked David if the cones rotate or spin? David said no, they just
                                            wobble.
                                            Steve(n D.)

                                            Previously, you (Cfelton) wrote:
                                            > The cones DO NOT spin in a complete circle. They will have a slight spin
                                            when building up to resonance, but only about 1/8 turn per minute or less.
                                            When the cones are resonating there is NO spin just a high speed wobble.
                                            You will see the cones appear to stop moving, but that is not the case. If
                                            you can get a look at the reflection coming off the top cone magnet, you
                                            will see a shimmering reflection. The wobble is so fast, it is like looking
                                            at the rear section of a flying bee.
                                            >
                                            > If you spin the top cone, it will reach resonance faster, and the top cone
                                            will stop spinning and wobble. I have tried spinning all cones and it comes
                                            apart very quickly due to minor imbalances. WOBBLE not Spin.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Chris
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Brian Keohi
                                            > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:30 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hello again,
                                            > David thanks for the info
                                            > I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding the
                                            magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in fact
                                            weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with the
                                            increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them dynamically spin
                                            balanced...since no one has told of actually seeing the cones moving once
                                            inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in fact start to spin on their
                                            own.
                                            >
                                            > I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a gyroscope, and I
                                            tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I made the lower
                                            gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of the top on gyroscope,
                                            thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is what gave me the idea of the
                                            cones spinning..I am also thinking of using 4 cones, because if what I see
                                            happening with the stacked tops is correct, three cones would have a natural
                                            unbalanced affect, since two cones would be moving in the same direction at
                                            the same time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to them.
                                            >
                                            > I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was very helpful
                                            to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about Steve T's
                                            experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually spinning inside the
                                            barrel, and started me playing with the gyroscopes.
                                            >
                                            > If my first version works the way I think it should my next step will be
                                            to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for better control,
                                            and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots, connected by the an arm,
                                            this way I can pivot them in a certain direction to help increase the speed
                                            in which the cones spin. This would also give me the ability to pivot the
                                            ring magnets in the opposite direction to slow and even stop the cones from
                                            spinning.
                                            >
                                            > These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects that I have
                                            witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking for input
                                            from other experimentors
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                                            > Brian
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Adriaan Erasmus
                                            > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:35 AM
                                            > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > David,
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning top cone can
                                            > lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much easier and more
                                            > efficient ;)
                                            >
                                            > The spinning will eventually stop and by this time the
                                            > motion/ressonance is already there and increasing in frequency.
                                            > Maybe get it spinning with a compressor jet ( with air ).
                                            >
                                            > Thanks man
                                            > Adriaan
                                            >
                                            > --- In hameltech@y..., "David Koukourou" <dkouk@b...> wrote:
                                            > > HI Guys,
                                            > > the cones can spin if they want. you see David Hamel
                                            > originally spun the
                                            > > top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work. When a
                                            > cone is
                                            > > spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or wobble.
                                            > eventually
                                            > > the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in the
                                            > resonance
                                            > > state. I bought a spinning top the other day. when I spin it
                                            > while you can
                                            > > see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning top itself
                                            > turns on
                                            > > an axis separate from the top's spin. This secondary motion is the
                                            > motion
                                            > > that we want the cones to naturally be moving in. Notice that you
                                            > can get
                                            > > this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing cone and
                                            > move your
                                            > > finger around the edge.
                                            > > I have heard that spinning the top cone to start the 45gd
                                            > enables more
                                            > > energy to be present at the start. I think it is a good idea to
                                            > spinn at
                                            > > the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey should be
                                            > able to spin
                                            > > without any cone-crashes. They should be weightless. If you build
                                            > one and
                                            > > spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.
                                            > >
                                            > > David K
                                            > >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@y...]
                                            > > Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                                            > > To: hameltech@y...
                                            > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Brian,
                                            > >
                                            > > The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                                            > > the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them
                                            > spun.
                                            > > According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention
                                            > of
                                            > > the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                                            > > is the ressonance that we are after.
                                            > >
                                            > > I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                                            > > it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't
                                            > spin
                                            > > is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                                            > > rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                                            > > cones from going into a spinning motion.
                                            > > I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                                            > > will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.
                                            > >
                                            > > Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                                            > > am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                                            > > self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural
                                            > gases,
                                            > > anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                                            > > motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                                            > > force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                                            > > are missing the whole point of the design.
                                            > >
                                            > > That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                                            > > this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                                            > > a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.
                                            > >
                                            > > Adriaan
                                            > > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                            > > > Justin
                                            > > > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                                            > > Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                                            > > reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone
                                            > would
                                            > > have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                                            > > have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                                            > > with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                                            > > the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                                            > > told about.
                                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > From: jszymanek2000@y...
                                            > > > To: hameltech@y...
                                            > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                                            > > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                                            > > cones
                                            > > > vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                                            > > amount.
                                            > > > Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am
                                            > not
                                            > > > really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                                            > > T.
                                            > > > style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                                            > > magnetic
                                            > > > one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma
                                            > stage)
                                            > > he
                                            > > > told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                                            > > the
                                            > > > device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of
                                            > the
                                            > > > cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                                            > > vibrations
                                            > > > get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things
                                            > to
                                            > > come
                                            > > > apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                                            > > help
                                            > > > smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                                            > > possible, but
                                            > > > they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                                            > > stack
                                            > > > your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                                            > > up, not
                                            > > > leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                                            > > > BALANCED!!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > -Justin
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                            > > > > Hi Val,
                                            > > > > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                                            > > > work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                                            > > action
                                            > > > of that ball rolling around would be the top cone
                                            > spinning...also
                                            > > in
                                            > > > the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                                            > > his
                                            > > > spinning, I could be wrong tho
                                            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > > From: vgruno2000@y...
                                            > > > > To: hameltech@y...
                                            > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                                            > > > > Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > To: AtomicBuz,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > From information that has been sent by the members of this
                                            > > group I
                                            > > > am
                                            > > > > led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                                            > > woble
                                            > > > > motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                                            > > something
                                            > > > > somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                                            > > cones
                                            > > > > are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                                            > > them I
                                            > > > > found they were too heavy and so they are back at the
                                            > machine
                                            > > shop
                                            > > > on
                                            > > > > the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                                            > > and
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > > equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                                            > > > > If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Val
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                            > > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                            > > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            > > > Service.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                            > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                            > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                            > > Service.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                            > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                            > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                            > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                            >


                                            Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          • Brian Keohi
                                            I m not trying to create a stir on this board...I m just trying to get some of the facts clear in my head...the diagrams on Justins site show the wobbling
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I'm not trying to create a stir on this board...I'm just trying to get some of the facts clear in my head...the diagrams on Justins site show the wobbling effect to be in a circular or rotational motion...if this is so..and the cones are held virtually weightless because of the magnets..they will spin. The spinning is the opposing force to the rotational motion that the diagrams on Justins site depict the isotope line to be..the opposing effect of the top cone wobbling in a circular " out of balance condition " is the lower cone doing the exact same thing but in the opposite rotational direction. The oscillation plate is the end of that effect by absorbing and dissipating that energy.
                                              If you look at the magnets on the ring they would act as an invisible ball bearing...if you've ever tried to force two like poles of a magnet together they always want to repel each other in a curved or circular motion because the magnetic field created by them is somewhat hemispherical in definition. Thats why the isotope line created by the upper cone being in an " out of balance" state revolves around the upper opposing magnet.
                                               
                                              I checked our Bryan St. Clairs site but all it says is that his m3cd is working, but no specifics.
                                               
                                              On the Keelynet site they said that Mr. Hamel and Mr. Searl found that "a rapidly rotating magnetic disc would continually speed up".
                                               
                                              Everyone of the other sites that I have checked out have seemed to have the same results in getting their device to operate.
                                               
                                              Thats why I'm putting forth the idea of adding the spinning motion to the cones...
                                               
                                              worst thing that could happen is the devise fails...
                                              Brian
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:31 PM
                                              Subject: RE: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                                              Hi there,
                                                    I did say this and I still believe David has said spin the top cone to
                                              start it.  He may not have done it in the device that ?ploded.  Simply
                                              putting the lid on it might work especially if the device is all setup
                                              right.  Also David would say : David said no, they just
                                                wobble.
                                              If I were telling you about this thing I wouldn't tell you that it spins
                                              because it WILL confuse your thoughts.  David H is correct here even though
                                              he and I and others have mentioned that spinning can be a useful tool for
                                              starting.

                                                    About the hot/not hot plasma issue.  Plasma to my knowledge is over a
                                              thousand degrees in temperature.  If it was only about say 200-300 degrees
                                              hot then it could be called cold.  note that you could still feel warmth
                                              from the cold plasma its just not the usual thousands of degrees type of
                                              plasma.

                                              finally I just wanted to re-say: I am working and talking on the 45gd
                                              device.  It doesn't fly.  And isn't supposed to fly any more than a bird
                                              without wings can fly. (45gd = birds heart / HFS = bird)

                                              Cheers
                                              David K

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Steven Dufresne [mailto:stevend@...]
                                              Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2001 4:57 AM
                                              To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones


                                              FWIW Just to add to this thread about spinning...  Someone earlier, I think
                                              it was David K. said that David Hamel said he spun his cones to start them.
                                              These are my notes which I wrote after a visit to David:
                                              - I asked him how he started it up. Various people asked me to ask him
                                                this. He said that all he did was bolt on the lid.
                                              - I asked David if the cones rotate or spin? David said no, they just
                                                wobble.
                                              Steve(n D.)

                                              Previously, you (Cfelton) wrote:
                                              > The cones DO NOT spin in a complete circle.  They will have a slight spin
                                              when building up to resonance, but only about 1/8 turn per minute or less.
                                              When the cones are resonating there is NO spin just a high speed wobble.
                                              You will see the cones appear to stop moving, but that is not the case.  If
                                              you can get a look at the reflection coming off the top cone magnet, you
                                              will see a shimmering reflection.  The wobble is so fast, it is like looking
                                              at the rear section of a flying bee.
                                              >
                                              > If you spin the top cone, it will reach resonance faster, and the top cone
                                              will stop spinning and wobble.  I have tried spinning all cones and it comes
                                              apart very quickly due to minor imbalances.  WOBBLE not Spin.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Chris
                                              >   ----- Original Message -----
                                              >   From: Brian Keohi
                                              >   To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                              >   Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:30 AM
                                              >   Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >   Hello again,
                                              >   David thanks for the info
                                              >   I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and embedding the
                                              magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in fact
                                              weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with the
                                              increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them dynamically spin
                                              balanced...since no one  has told of actually seeing the cones moving once
                                              inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in fact start to spin on their
                                              own.
                                              >
                                              >   I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a gyroscope, and I
                                              tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I made the lower
                                              gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of the top on gyroscope,
                                              thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is what gave me the idea of the
                                              cones spinning..I am also thinking of using 4 cones, because if what I see
                                              happening with the stacked tops is correct, three cones would have a natural
                                              unbalanced affect, since two cones would be moving in the same direction at
                                              the same time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to them.
                                              >
                                              >   I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was very helpful
                                              to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about Steve T's
                                              experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually spinning inside the
                                              barrel, and started me playing with the gyroscopes.
                                              >
                                              >   If my first version works the way I think it should my next step will be
                                              to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for better control,
                                              and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots, connected by  the an arm,
                                              this way I can pivot them in a certain direction to help increase the speed
                                              in which the cones spin. This would also give me the ability to pivot the
                                              ring magnets in the opposite direction to slow and even stop the cones from
                                              spinning.
                                              >
                                              >   These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects that I have
                                              witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking for input
                                              from other experimentors
                                              >
                                              >   Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                                              >   Brian
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >     ----- Original Message -----
                                              >     From: Adriaan Erasmus
                                              >     To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                              >     Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:35 AM
                                              >     Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >     David,
                                              >
                                              >     Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning top cone can
                                              >     lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much easier and more
                                              >     efficient ;)
                                              >
                                              >     The spinning will eventually stop and by this time the
                                              >     motion/ressonance is already there and increasing in frequency.
                                              >     Maybe get it spinning with a compressor jet ( with air ).
                                              >
                                              >     Thanks man
                                              >     Adriaan
                                              >
                                              >     --- In hameltech@y..., "David Koukourou" <dkouk@b...> wrote:
                                              >     > HI Guys,
                                              >     >       the cones can spin if they want.  you see David Hamel
                                              >     originally spun the
                                              >     > top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to work.  When a
                                              >     cone is
                                              >     > spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or wobble.
                                              >     eventually
                                              >     > the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in the
                                              >     resonance
                                              >     > state.  I bought a spinning top the other day.  when I spin it
                                              >     while you can
                                              >     > see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning top itself
                                              >     turns on
                                              >     > an axis separate from the top's spin.  This secondary motion is the
                                              >     motion
                                              >     > that we want the cones to naturally be moving in.  Notice that you
                                              >     can get
                                              >     > this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing cone and
                                              >     move your
                                              >     > finger around the edge.
                                              >     >       I have heard that spinning the top cone to start the 45gd
                                              >     enables more
                                              >     > energy to be present at the start.  I think it is a good idea to
                                              >     spinn at
                                              >     > the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey should be
                                              >     able to spin
                                              >     > without any cone-crashes.  They should be weightless.  If you build
                                              >     one and
                                              >     > spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.
                                              >     >
                                              >     > David K
                                              >     >
                                              >     > -----Original Message-----
                                              >     > From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@y...]
                                              >     > Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                                              >     > To: hameltech@y...
                                              >     > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                              >     >
                                              >     >
                                              >     > Brian,
                                              >     >
                                              >     > The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built until now had
                                              >     > the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none of them
                                              >     spun.
                                              >     > According to every site dealing with hameltech there is no mention
                                              >     of
                                              >     > the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate because it
                                              >     > is the ressonance that we are after.
                                              >     >
                                              >     > I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you think about it
                                              >     > it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason they don't
                                              >     spin
                                              >     > is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and on the
                                              >     > rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which prevents the
                                              >     > cones from going into a spinning motion.
                                              >     > I also believe that if they do start spinning the perpetual motion
                                              >     > will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.
                                              >     >
                                              >     > Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another thing while I
                                              >     > am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to create a
                                              >     > self running system that generates light, heat, water, natural
                                              >     gases,
                                              >     > anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you introduce a
                                              >     > motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the device to
                                              >     > force a motion that hopefully will create the desired effects, you
                                              >     > are missing the whole point of the design.
                                              >     >
                                              >     > That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my mind about
                                              >     > this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing perpetual about
                                              >     > a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.
                                              >     >
                                              >     > Adriaan
                                              >     > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                              >     > > Justin
                                              >     > > I would think that the laws of physics would come into play... in
                                              >     > Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal and opposite
                                              >     > reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the top cone
                                              >     would
                                              >     > have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower cone would
                                              >     > have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I believe that
                                              >     > with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while wobbling in
                                              >     > the isotope line the reaction would have caused the effect that he
                                              >     > told about.
                                              >     > >   ----- Original Message -----
                                              >     > >   From: jszymanek2000@y...
                                              >     > >   To: hameltech@y...
                                              >     > >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                                              >     > >   Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >   The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball spins. The
                                              >     > cones
                                              >     > >   vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very small
                                              >     > amount.
                                              >     > >   Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or vibration. I am
                                              >     not
                                              >     > >   really sure if his claim is true. I did get static from my Steve
                                              >     > T.
                                              >     > >   style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >   The cones need to have a good physical balance as well as a
                                              >     > magnetic
                                              >     > >   one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the plasma
                                              >     stage)
                                              >     > he
                                              >     > >   told me it was shaking the table. He could feel vibrations from
                                              >     > the
                                              >     > >   device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is because of
                                              >     the
                                              >     > >   cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and when the
                                              >     > vibrations
                                              >     > >   get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can cause things
                                              >     to
                                              >     > come
                                              >     > >   apart. However the magnetic component of balance will greatly
                                              >     > help
                                              >     > >   smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well as
                                              >     > possible, but
                                              >     > >   they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be able to
                                              >     > stack
                                              >     > >   your cones upside down on a level surface, and have them point
                                              >     > up, not
                                              >     > >   leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they are VERY WELL
                                              >     > >   BALANCED!!
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >   -Justin
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >   --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                              >     > >   > Hi Val,
                                              >     > >   > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS wouldn't
                                              >     > >   work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the resulting
                                              >     > action
                                              >     > >   of that ball rolling around would be the top cone
                                              >     spinning...also
                                              >     > in
                                              >     > >   the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric motor to get
                                              >     > his
                                              >     > >   spinning, I could be wrong tho
                                              >     > >   >   ----- Original Message -----
                                              >     > >   >   From: vgruno2000@y...
                                              >     > >   >   To: hameltech@y...
                                              >     > >   >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                                              >     > >   >   Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >   To: AtomicBuz,
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >   From information that has been sent by the members of this
                                              >     > group I
                                              >     > >   am
                                              >     > >   >   led to believe that the cones do not spin and only have a
                                              >     > woble
                                              >     > >   >   motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have missed
                                              >     > something
                                              >     > >   >   somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At present my
                                              >     > cones
                                              >     > >   >   are machined out of aluminum and when I started balancing
                                              >     > them I
                                              >     > >   >   found they were too heavy and so they are back at the
                                              >     machine
                                              >     > shop
                                              >     > >   on
                                              >     > >   >   the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones are machined
                                              >     > and
                                              >     > >   of
                                              >     > >   >   equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                                              >     > >   >   If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >   Val
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >   Post message: hameltech@y...
                                              >     > >   >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                              >     > >   >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                              >     > >   >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >
                                              >     > >   >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                              >     > >   Service.
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >   Post message: hameltech@y...
                                              >     > >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                              >     > >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                              >     > >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >
                                              >     > >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                              >     > Service.
                                              >     >
                                              >     >
                                              >     > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                              >     > Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                              >     > Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                              >     > List owner:  hameltech-owner@y...
                                              >     >
                                              >     >
                                              >     > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              >     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >     Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                              >     Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >     Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >     List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >   Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                              >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >   Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >


                                              Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                              Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                            • maynelog@yahoo.com
                                              Hi Brian the cones can not spin they are magneticly supspended and thus there is nothing to make them spin all they do is float they do however wobble when
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jul 9, 2001
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hi Brian

                                                the cones can not spin
                                                they are magneticly supspended and thus there is nothing to make them
                                                spin all they do is float
                                                they do however wobble
                                                when floating you can spin the top cone but this stops after a while

                                                i can not see how you would get them to spin either
                                                good luck

                                                chris


                                                -- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...> wrote:
                                                > I'm not trying to create a stir on this board...I'm just trying to
                                                get some of the facts clear in my head...the diagrams on Justins site
                                                show the wobbling effect to be in a circular or rotational
                                                motion...if this is so..and the cones are held virtually weightless
                                                because of the magnets..they will spin. The spinning is the opposing
                                                force to the rotational motion that the diagrams on Justins site
                                                depict the isotope line to be..the opposing effect of the top cone
                                                wobbling in a circular " out of balance condition " is the lower cone
                                                doing the exact same thing but in the opposite rotational direction.
                                                The oscillation plate is the end of that effect by absorbing and
                                                dissipating that energy.
                                                > If you look at the magnets on the ring they would act as an
                                                invisible ball bearing...if you've ever tried to force two like poles
                                                of a magnet together they always want to repel each other in a curved
                                                or circular motion because the magnetic field created by them is
                                                somewhat hemispherical in definition. Thats why the isotope line
                                                created by the upper cone being in an " out of balance" state
                                                revolves around the upper opposing magnet.
                                                >
                                                > I checked our Bryan St. Clairs site but all it says is that his
                                                m3cd is working, but no specifics.
                                                >
                                                > On the Keelynet site they said that Mr. Hamel and Mr. Searl found
                                                that "a rapidly rotating magnetic disc would continually speed up".
                                                >
                                                > Everyone of the other sites that I have checked out have seemed to
                                                have the same results in getting their device to operate.
                                                >
                                                > Thats why I'm putting forth the idea of adding the spinning motion
                                                to the cones...
                                                >
                                                > worst thing that could happen is the devise fails...
                                                > Brian
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: David Koukourou
                                                > To: hameltech@y...
                                                > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:31 PM
                                                > Subject: RE: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Hi there,
                                                > I did say this and I still believe David has said spin the
                                                top cone to
                                                > start it. He may not have done it in the device that ?ploded.
                                                Simply
                                                > putting the lid on it might work especially if the device is all
                                                setup
                                                > right. Also David would say : David said no, they just
                                                > wobble.
                                                > If I were telling you about this thing I wouldn't tell you that
                                                it spins
                                                > because it WILL confuse your thoughts. David H is correct here
                                                even though
                                                > he and I and others have mentioned that spinning can be a useful
                                                tool for
                                                > starting.
                                                >
                                                > About the hot/not hot plasma issue. Plasma to my knowledge
                                                is over a
                                                > thousand degrees in temperature. If it was only about say 200-
                                                300 degrees
                                                > hot then it could be called cold. note that you could still feel
                                                warmth
                                                > from the cold plasma its just not the usual thousands of degrees
                                                type of
                                                > plasma.
                                                >
                                                > finally I just wanted to re-say: I am working and talking on the
                                                45gd
                                                > device. It doesn't fly. And isn't supposed to fly any more than
                                                a bird
                                                > without wings can fly. (45gd = birds heart / HFS = bird)
                                                >
                                                > Cheers
                                                > David K
                                                >
                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: Steven Dufresne [mailto:stevend@e...]
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2001 4:57 AM
                                                > To: hameltech@y...
                                                > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > FWIW Just to add to this thread about spinning... Someone
                                                earlier, I think
                                                > it was David K. said that David Hamel said he spun his cones to
                                                start them.
                                                > These are my notes which I wrote after a visit to David:
                                                > - I asked him how he started it up. Various people asked me to
                                                ask him
                                                > this. He said that all he did was bolt on the lid.
                                                > - I asked David if the cones rotate or spin? David said no, they
                                                just
                                                > wobble.
                                                > Steve(n D.)
                                                >
                                                > Previously, you (Cfelton) wrote:
                                                > > The cones DO NOT spin in a complete circle. They will have a
                                                slight spin
                                                > when building up to resonance, but only about 1/8 turn per minute
                                                or less.
                                                > When the cones are resonating there is NO spin just a high speed
                                                wobble.
                                                > You will see the cones appear to stop moving, but that is not the
                                                case. If
                                                > you can get a look at the reflection coming off the top cone
                                                magnet, you
                                                > will see a shimmering reflection. The wobble is so fast, it is
                                                like looking
                                                > at the rear section of a flying bee.
                                                > >
                                                > > If you spin the top cone, it will reach resonance faster, and
                                                the top cone
                                                > will stop spinning and wobble. I have tried spinning all cones
                                                and it comes
                                                > apart very quickly due to minor imbalances. WOBBLE not Spin.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Chris
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: Brian Keohi
                                                > > To: hameltech@y...
                                                > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 11:30 AM
                                                > > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Hello again,
                                                > > David thanks for the info
                                                > > I'm contemplation making cones out of carbon fiber and
                                                embedding the
                                                > magnets into them during the process,..since the cones will be in
                                                fact
                                                > weightless I believe the spinning will actually get faster with
                                                the
                                                > increasing butterfly effect, so I'm also going to have them
                                                dynamically spin
                                                > balanced...since no one has told of actually seeing the cones
                                                moving once
                                                > inside the barrel and indeed seeing if they in fact start to spin
                                                on their
                                                > own.
                                                > >
                                                > > I got my idea of the cones spinning from playing with a
                                                gyroscope, and I
                                                > tried stacking 2 gyroscopes, which continued to fail until I made
                                                the lower
                                                > gryoscope rotate in the opposite direction of spin of the top on
                                                gyroscope,
                                                > thats when I saw the the isotope line, this is what gave me the
                                                idea of the
                                                > cones spinning..I am also thinking of using 4 cones, because if
                                                what I see
                                                > happening with the stacked tops is correct, three cones would
                                                have a natural
                                                > unbalanced affect, since two cones would be moving in the same
                                                direction at
                                                > the same time,while one cone would be moving in opposition to
                                                them.
                                                > >
                                                > > I'm new to this, but after reading Justins site, which was
                                                very helpful
                                                > to me understanding about this idea, and from reading about Steve
                                                T's
                                                > experiment, which gave me the idea of the cones actually spinning
                                                inside the
                                                > barrel, and started me playing with the gyroscopes.
                                                > >
                                                > > If my first version works the way I think it should my next
                                                step will be
                                                > to use an electro magnet for the top repulsing magnet, for better
                                                control,
                                                > and setting up the magnets in the rings on pivots, connected by
                                                the an arm,
                                                > this way I can pivot them in a certain direction to help increase
                                                the speed
                                                > in which the cones spin. This would also give me the ability to
                                                pivot the
                                                > ring magnets in the opposite direction to slow and even stop the
                                                cones from
                                                > spinning.
                                                > >
                                                > > These are just my ideas from watching the gyroscopic effects
                                                that I have
                                                > witnessed,and actually seeing the isotope line. I'm just looking
                                                for input
                                                > from other experimentors
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks for any help or comments anyone can give me.
                                                > > Brian
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: Adriaan Erasmus
                                                > > To: hameltech@y...
                                                > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:35 AM
                                                > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > David,
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks for that bit of info, now I see that the spinning
                                                top cone can
                                                > > lead to the cones breaking into the isotope line much
                                                easier and more
                                                > > efficient ;)
                                                > >
                                                > > The spinning will eventually stop and by this time the
                                                > > motion/ressonance is already there and increasing in
                                                frequency.
                                                > > Maybe get it spinning with a compressor jet ( with air ).
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks man
                                                > > Adriaan
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In hameltech@y..., "David Koukourou" <dkouk@b...> wrote:
                                                > > > HI Guys,
                                                > > > the cones can spin if they want. you see David
                                                Hamel
                                                > > originally spun the
                                                > > > top cone only and put the lid on to get the 45gd to
                                                work. When a
                                                > > cone is
                                                > > > spun it moves in the right way to start the vibration or
                                                wobble.
                                                > > eventually
                                                > > > the cone may stop spinning but it will by this time be in
                                                the
                                                > > resonance
                                                > > > state. I bought a spinning top the other day. when I
                                                spin it
                                                > > while you can
                                                > > > see that the cone is spinning really fast, the spinning
                                                top itself
                                                > > turns on
                                                > > > an axis separate from the top's spin. This secondary
                                                motion is the
                                                > > motion
                                                > > > that we want the cones to naturally be moving in. Notice
                                                that you
                                                > > can get
                                                > > > this motion by pushing down on the edge of a balancing
                                                cone and
                                                > > move your
                                                > > > finger around the edge.
                                                > > > I have heard that spinning the top cone to start
                                                the 45gd
                                                > > enables more
                                                > > > energy to be present at the start. I think it is a good
                                                idea to
                                                > > spinn at
                                                > > > the start, and if your cones are balanced right thaey
                                                should be
                                                > > able to spin
                                                > > > without any cone-crashes. They should be weightless. If
                                                you build
                                                > > one and
                                                > > > spin it you'll see how it affects the other cones.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > David K
                                                > > >
                                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > > From: Adriaan Erasmus [mailto:wokani@y...]
                                                > > > Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 5:08 PM
                                                > > > To: hameltech@y...
                                                > > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Brian,
                                                > > >
                                                > > > The cones do not spin. Every 3CD that has been built
                                                until now had
                                                > > > the same motion ( well most of them * smile * ) and none
                                                of them
                                                > > spun.
                                                > > > According to every site dealing with hameltech there is
                                                no mention
                                                > > of
                                                > > > the cones spinning, after all, they only need to vibrate
                                                because it
                                                > > > is the ressonance that we are after.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I see what you mean by the counter actions and if you
                                                think about it
                                                > > > it makes all good sense but I believe that the reason
                                                they don't
                                                > > spin
                                                > > > is because there are magnets all around the cone rims and
                                                on the
                                                > > > rings around the cones all of them in repulsion which
                                                prevents the
                                                > > > cones from going into a spinning motion.
                                                > > > I also believe that if they do start spinning the
                                                perpetual motion
                                                > > > will STOP and the plasma creation will then die off.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Believe me Brian, these cones do not spin and another
                                                thing while I
                                                > > > am on the subject. The whole idea of these devices is to
                                                create a
                                                > > > self running system that generates light, heat, water,
                                                natural
                                                > > gases,
                                                > > > anti-gravity and electricity from aether and once you
                                                introduce a
                                                > > > motor spinning the cones or vibrating a section of the
                                                device to
                                                > > > force a motion that hopefully will create the desired
                                                effects, you
                                                > > > are missing the whole point of the design.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > That's my feeling on all this and I wouldn't change my
                                                mind about
                                                > > > this. The idea is perpetual motion. There is nothing
                                                perpetual about
                                                > > > a wiper motor hooked up to a 45GD or any other 3CD.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Adriaan
                                                > > > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > > > > Justin
                                                > > > > I would think that the laws of physics would come into
                                                play... in
                                                > > > Steve T's experiment...since every action has an equal
                                                and opposite
                                                > > > reaction...his motor with the wheel rolling inside the
                                                top cone
                                                > > would
                                                > > > have caused the cone to spin while it wobbled...the lower
                                                cone would
                                                > > > have spun in the opposite direction of the top cone..I
                                                believe that
                                                > > > with both cones spinning, in opposite directions while
                                                wobbling in
                                                > > > the isotope line the reaction would have caused the
                                                effect that he
                                                > > > told about.
                                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > From: jszymanek2000@y...
                                                > > > > To: hameltech@y...
                                                > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:20 PM
                                                > > > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > The cones do NOT spin! In a WIS device only the ball
                                                spins. The
                                                > > > cones
                                                > > > > vibrate very fast in resonance, and move only a very
                                                small
                                                > > > amount.
                                                > > > > Steve T. used a motor to create the wobble or
                                                vibration. I am
                                                > > not
                                                > > > > really sure if his claim is true. I did get static
                                                from my Steve
                                                > > > T.
                                                > > > > style drum, but nothing else. Who knows....
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > The cones need to have a good physical balance as
                                                well as a
                                                > > > magnetic
                                                > > > > one. In Chris Felton's first M3CD (which got to the
                                                plasma
                                                > > stage)
                                                > > > he
                                                > > > > told me it was shaking the table. He could feel
                                                vibrations from
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > > device, they were fairly strong. He believes it is
                                                because of
                                                > > the
                                                > > > > cones not being perfectly physically balanced, and
                                                when the
                                                > > > vibrations
                                                > > > > get strong it can shake the whole thing. This can
                                                cause things
                                                > > to
                                                > > > come
                                                > > > > apart. However the magnetic component of balance will
                                                greatly
                                                > > > help
                                                > > > > smooth it out. So you want the cones balanced as well
                                                as
                                                > > > possible, but
                                                > > > > they don't need to be perfect to work. You should be
                                                able to
                                                > > > stack
                                                > > > > your cones upside down on a level surface, and have
                                                them point
                                                > > > up, not
                                                > > > > leaning on each other. If your cones do this, they
                                                are VERY WELL
                                                > > > > BALANCED!!
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > -Justin
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In hameltech@y..., "Brian Keohi" <atomicbuz@h...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > > > > > Hi Val,
                                                > > > > > I believe they do indead spin...else wise the WIS
                                                wouldn't
                                                > > > > work...since the ball rolls around the top cone, the
                                                resulting
                                                > > > action
                                                > > > > of that ball rolling around would be the top cone
                                                > > spinning...also
                                                > > > in
                                                > > > > the letter from Steve Thompson he used an electric
                                                motor to get
                                                > > > his
                                                > > > > spinning, I could be wrong tho
                                                > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > > From: vgruno2000@y...
                                                > > > > > To: hameltech@y...
                                                > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 5:32 PM
                                                > > > > > Subject: [hameltech] Balancing cones
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > To: AtomicBuz,
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > From information that has been sent by the
                                                members of this
                                                > > > group I
                                                > > > > am
                                                > > > > > led to believe that the cones do not spin and
                                                only have a
                                                > > > woble
                                                > > > > > motion. If they are spinning then I guess I have
                                                missed
                                                > > > something
                                                > > > > > somewhere. Balance is important to the device. At
                                                present my
                                                > > > cones
                                                > > > > > are machined out of aluminum and when I started
                                                balancing
                                                > > > them I
                                                > > > > > found they were too heavy and so they are back at
                                                the
                                                > > machine
                                                > > > shop
                                                > > > > on
                                                > > > > > the EDM unit to trim them down. Since the cones
                                                are machined
                                                > > > and
                                                > > > > of
                                                > > > > > equal weight I do not worry about the imbalance.
                                                > > > > > If the cones do spin someone please advise.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Val
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                                > > > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                                > > > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > > > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                Yahoo! Terms of
                                                > > > > Service.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                                > > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                                > > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                Terms of
                                                > > > Service.
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                                > > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                                > > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                                > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                                > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                Service.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                                > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                                > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                Service.
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                                > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                                > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Post message: hameltech@y...
                                                > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@y...
                                                > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > List owner: hameltech-owner@y...
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                Service.
                                              • Dan LaRochelle
                                                Where do you live Brian? Dan LaRochelle ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jul 11, 2001
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Where do you live Brian?

                                                  Dan LaRochelle


                                                  --- Brian Keohi <atomicbuz@...> wrote:
                                                  > Georgia,
                                                  > I too worked R&D for SAIC ( Science Application
                                                  > International Corp ) and I was on loan to Sandia
                                                  > National Labs, I worked on the nuclear waste
                                                  > repository studies.
                                                  > I do have an engineering background :)
                                                  > I understand where you are coming from on " why
                                                  > everyone works off the same design and theory" but
                                                  > no one has produced the same results of Mr. Hamel,
                                                  > in that his took off and left for space.
                                                  > The reason I decided to go with carbon fiber is its
                                                  > light weight and strength also I can create a mold
                                                  > for making the other cones needed where they all
                                                  > will be uniform...as for cost, that will depend on
                                                  > just how big I'm going to make them..I can get the
                                                  > carbon fiber from Boeing surplus..as for making the
                                                  > molds I have access to a large lath and would make
                                                  > the molds out of wood in a male female plug
                                                  > design.then get the proper sized drill bit and make
                                                  > the holes for the magnets in the female plug..mount
                                                  > the magnets using wax ( this way they will stay put
                                                  > while I lay in the carbon fiber and resin) and then
                                                  > apply the carbon fiber to the inside of the female
                                                  > plug..I believe that the resins would bond with the
                                                  > magnets..keeping them in place. from what I've been
                                                  > reading even if the cones didn't spin, I'd imagine
                                                  > that the high frequency wobbling would cause fatigue
                                                  > on the adhesive securing the magnets to an aluminum
                                                  > cone, eventually causing failure.
                                                  > I'm not one to duplicate someone elses failure,
                                                  > thats why I'm pointing out all the possibilities of
                                                  > motion within these devices, and looking for the
                                                  > responses from others who have built one.
                                                  >
                                                  > I just recently found this site and I have been
                                                  > reading all I can find. Ole suggested I read on
                                                  > Brian St. Clair's experiment, but I'm not sure where
                                                  > to find it. if anyone can tell me where I can find
                                                  > it I'd appreciate it alot
                                                  > Thanks for all the great input
                                                  > Brian
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: Georgia Hartley
                                                  > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 2:00 PM
                                                  > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Again very valid points. From what I understand
                                                  > of physics I think you are correct. I haven't
                                                  > gotten mine working yet though so I can't say
                                                  > positively. (Juggling far too many bills right now.
                                                  > ) About the air holes. It is basically like a
                                                  > turbine engine. If you bring air in you have to
                                                  > have an outlet. Also the size or amount of air hole
                                                  > is more for pressure I thought. Too big or too many
                                                  > and not enough pressure to sustain the plasma field.
                                                  >
                                                  > Part of the problem with folks recreating the same
                                                  > errors is that each person is coming to this new.
                                                  > So they start at the beginning find out from their
                                                  > mistakes and go from there. I work in R&D so I see
                                                  > this kind of process whenever a different person
                                                  > steps in to take over a project. They go all the
                                                  > way back to the beginning. It's the learning
                                                  > process. Someone who has more experience or
                                                  > knowledge can jump ahead and not backtrack so much.
                                                  > But because this is entirely new territory for most
                                                  > of us, the accepted way to go about it is to attempt
                                                  > to recreate the original because it is not known
                                                  > what the end results will be with a variation.
                                                  >
                                                  > The only thing that you have suggested that I
                                                  > think might cause a problem is stacking four cones
                                                  > instead of three. But you never know until you try.
                                                  > Some folks have used only two cones
                                                  >
                                                  > The persons I would listen to on the list as they
                                                  > have the most experience are Chris Felton, Justin
                                                  > Syszmanic, Dan La Rochelle, David K, & Brian St.
                                                  > Clair. There may be a few more that have got things
                                                  > going fairly well but I can't think of who off the
                                                  > top of my head. So if I left anyone out sorry.
                                                  >
                                                  > Me I'm just the devils advocate, because I'm
                                                  > learning from everything people say here, just wish
                                                  > I could experiment more. But my freetime just got
                                                  > even less because my department just got downsized.
                                                  >
                                                  > I do look forward to hearing about your results.
                                                  >
                                                  > :-) Georgia
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Unsubscribe:
                                                  > hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                  > Terms of Service.
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  __________________________________________________
                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                                  Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
                                                  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
                                                • Brian Keohi
                                                  Dan, In Tacoma about 30 miles south of Seattle ... From: Dan LaRochelle To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 2:45 PM Subject: Re:
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jul 11, 2001
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Dan,
                                                    In Tacoma about 30 miles south of Seattle
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 2:45 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones

                                                    Where do you live Brian?

                                                    Dan LaRochelle


                                                    --- Brian Keohi <atomicbuz@...> wrote:
                                                    > Georgia,
                                                    > I too worked R&D for SAIC ( Science Application
                                                    > International Corp ) and I was on loan to Sandia
                                                    > National Labs, I worked on the nuclear waste
                                                    > repository studies.
                                                    > I do have an engineering background :)
                                                    > I understand where you are coming from on " why
                                                    > everyone works off the same design and theory" but
                                                    > no one has produced the same results of Mr. Hamel,
                                                    > in that his took off and left for space.
                                                    > The reason I decided to go with carbon fiber is its
                                                    > light weight and strength also I can create a mold
                                                    > for making the other cones needed where they all
                                                    > will be uniform...as for cost, that will depend on
                                                    > just how big I'm going to make them..I can get the
                                                    > carbon fiber from Boeing surplus..as for making the
                                                    > molds I have access to a large lath and would make
                                                    > the molds out of wood in a male female plug
                                                    > design.then get the proper sized drill bit and make
                                                    > the holes for the magnets in the female plug..mount
                                                    > the magnets using wax ( this way they will stay put
                                                    > while I lay in the carbon fiber and resin) and then
                                                    > apply the carbon fiber to the inside of the female
                                                    > plug..I believe that the resins would bond with the
                                                    > magnets..keeping them in place. from what I've been
                                                    > reading even if the cones didn't spin, I'd imagine
                                                    > that the high frequency wobbling would cause fatigue
                                                    > on the adhesive securing the magnets to an aluminum
                                                    > cone,  eventually causing failure.
                                                    > I'm not one to  duplicate someone elses failure,
                                                    > thats why I'm pointing out all the possibilities of
                                                    > motion within these devices, and looking for the
                                                    > responses from others who have built one.
                                                    >
                                                    > I just recently found this site and I have been
                                                    > reading all I can find. Ole suggested I read on
                                                    > Brian St. Clair's experiment, but I'm not sure where
                                                    > to find it. if anyone can tell me where I can find
                                                    > it I'd appreciate it alot
                                                    > Thanks for all the great input
                                                    > Brian
                                                    >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                    >   From: Georgia Hartley
                                                    >   To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >   Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 2:00 PM
                                                    >   Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: Balancing cones
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >   Again very valid points.  From what I understand
                                                    > of physics I think you are correct.  I haven't
                                                    > gotten mine working yet though so I can't say
                                                    > positively. (Juggling far too many bills right now.
                                                    > )  About the air holes. It is basically like a
                                                    > turbine engine.  If you bring air in you have to
                                                    > have an outlet. Also the size or amount of air hole
                                                    > is more for pressure I thought.  Too big or too many
                                                    > and not enough pressure to sustain the plasma field.
                                                    >
                                                    >   Part of the problem with folks recreating the same
                                                    > errors is that  each person is coming to this new.
                                                    > So they start at the beginning find out from their
                                                    > mistakes and go from there.  I work in R&D so I see
                                                    > this kind of process whenever a different person
                                                    > steps in to take over a project.  They go all the
                                                    > way back to the beginning.  It's the learning
                                                    > process.  Someone who has more experience or
                                                    > knowledge can jump ahead and not backtrack so much.
                                                    > But because this is entirely new territory for most
                                                    > of us, the accepted way to go about it is to attempt
                                                    > to recreate the original because it is not known
                                                    > what the end results will be with a variation. 
                                                    >
                                                    >   The only thing that you have suggested that I
                                                    > think might cause a problem is stacking four cones
                                                    > instead of three.  But you never know until you try.
                                                    >  Some folks have used only two cones
                                                    >
                                                    >   The persons I would listen to on the list as they
                                                    > have the most experience are Chris Felton, Justin
                                                    > Syszmanic, Dan La Rochelle, David K, & Brian St.
                                                    > Clair. There may be a few more that have got things
                                                    > going fairly well but I can't think of who off the
                                                    > top of my head.  So if I left anyone out sorry.
                                                    >
                                                    >   Me I'm just the devils advocate, because I'm
                                                    > learning from everything people say here, just wish
                                                    > I could experiment more.  But my freetime just got
                                                    > even less because my department just got downsized.
                                                    >
                                                    >   I do look forward to hearing about your results.
                                                    >
                                                    >   :-) Georgia
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >   Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >   Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >   Unsubscribe:
                                                    > hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >   List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                    > Terms of Service.
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    __________________________________________________
                                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                                    Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
                                                    http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

                                                    Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com


                                                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.