• Hello everybody,I ve been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CD but one of my questions is How are we
Message 1 of 15 , Feb 21, 2000
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Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CD
but one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.
Diego
• I reckon if we had totally floating cone tips, we might loose the link in the isotope line. Chris do you still have a physical link between your cones? They
Message 2 of 15 , Feb 21, 2000
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I reckon if we had totally floating cone tips, we might loose the link in the isotope line.  Chris do you still have a physical link between your cones?  They will decrease the wieght of the cones.  Maybe this way they have the weight of small cones but still have their inertial mass. ie p=mv (p= inertia, m=mass,v= velocity)  increase m and you get more inertia
David K

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.                                                                                                                                                                Diego
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• Hi Dieo et all, This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn t wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1
Message 3 of 15 , Feb 21, 2000
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Hi Dieo et all,
This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn't wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1" shingle nails. They sit in 1/2" #6 screw heads. There is no spinning at all. Only a vibration (1/16"). Also your cones should have great lift to them, and this transfers a lot of the weight to the frame. A steel tip is going to take hundreds of years to dull down. Think about how many times a piston goes up and down in car motor every second. The fit tightly into there sleeves. There is a lot of friction in comparison (even with oil), and yet they last a good while. There is basically nothing as far as wear goes. Chris has told me, in the UFO, once it is running, the wings lift to the point were they are hardly touching the pinions and balls. I suspect that the cones do the same thing. Eventually the tips will wear, but I bet it would take at least a few hundred years before they needed replacement. However, due to the ingenious design, the amount of friction and motion are so low, that the machine is designed to run virtually forever, if built properly.
The cones in the M3CD vibrate less than 1/16". When they reach resonance they appear to stop. They are still moving, but only a little. You don't need to suspend the cone tips. Which is good since you can't. Permanent magnets cannot create perfect stability (unless spinning at high speeds, i.e. levitron). The cone tip creates stability in the magnetic balance. You must have it. However due to the amount of wear created this is no big deal. A pinion change every thousand years sounds like pretty good maintenance to me :-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.                                                                                                                                                             &n! bsp;  Diego

• Hi, Justin, It sounds very logical your explanation, and what I am actually using as tips are aluminum rods sharpened and screw heads ,I taugh of the lifting
Message 4 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Hi, Justin, It sounds very logical your explanation, and what I am actually using as tips are aluminum rods sharpened and  screw heads ,I taugh of the lifting by the rims but I was forgeting about the vibration that's a relatively new concept to me,  I'm trying to make sure that's the best way to go, and yes it is a very good deal talking about maintenance. . Also ,I tried to weld with torch and a special aluminum rod on my cones joints but didn' get a good grip from the alloy I saw in one of your pictures that you have one of this Bernzomatic propane cilinders did you tried before? What were the results? anyway looks to me that you used bolts just again I am just trying to achieve the best posible balance , I've decided that I'm gonna use rivets of 1/8" .Thank you for your attention and rapid response.Best regards.
Diego

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Hi Dieo et all,
This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn't wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1" shingle nails. They sit in 1/2" #6 screw heads. There is no spinning at all. Only a vibration (1/16"). Also your cones should have great lift to them, and this transfers a lot of the weight to the frame. A steel tip is going to take hundreds of years to dull down. Think about how many times a piston goes up and down in car motor every second. The fit tightly into there sleeves. There is a lot of friction in comparison (even with oil), and yet they last a good while. There is basically nothing as far as wear goes. Chris has told me, in the UFO, once it is running, the wings lift to the point were they are hardly touching the pinions and balls. I suspect that the cones do the same thing. Eventually the tips will wear, but I bet it would take at least a few hundred years before they needed replacement. However, due to the ingenious design, the amount of friction and motion are so low, that the machine is designed to run virtually forever, if built properly.
The cones in the M3CD vibrate less than 1/16". When they reach resonance they appear to stop. They are still moving, but only a little. You don't need to suspend the cone tips. Which is good since you can't. Permanent magnets cannot create perfect stability (unless spinning at high speeds, i.e. levitron). The cone tip creates stability in the magnetic balance. You must have it. However due to the amount of wear created this is no big deal. A pinion change every thousand years sounds like pretty good maintenance to me :-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.                                                                                                                                                             &n! bsp;  Diego

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• Hi all, Regarding cone tips, have a look at He s a Dutch guy with, to my opinion, a couple off clever
Message 5 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Hi all,
Regarding cone tips, have a look at <http://members.xoom.com/woonbiologie/davidhamel.html>
He's a Dutch guy with, to my opinion, a couple off clever ideas on building Hamel devices.
Justin, thumbs up :)

Ludo Willems
Belgium
----- Original Message -----
From: dieo
Sent: dinsdag 22 februari 2000 10:00
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Hi, Justin, It sounds very logical your explanation, and what I am actually using as tips are aluminum rods sharpened and  screw heads ,I taugh of the lifting by the rims but I was forgeting about the vibration that's a relatively new concept to me,  I'm trying to make sure that's the best way to go, and yes it is a very good deal talking about maintenance. . Also ,I tried to weld with torch and a special aluminum rod on my cones joints but didn' get a good grip from the alloy I saw in one of your pictures that you have one of this Bernzomatic propane cilinders did you tried before? What were the results? anyway looks to me that you used bolts just again I am just trying to achieve the best posible balance , I've decided that I'm gonna use rivets of 1/8" .Thank you for your attention and rapid response.Best regards.
Diego

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Hi Dieo et all,
This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn't wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1" shingle nails. They sit in 1/2" #6 screw heads. There is no spinning at all. Only a vibration (1/16"). Also your cones should have great lift to them, and this transfers a lot of the weight to the frame. A steel tip is going to take hundreds of years to dull down. Think about how many times a piston goes up and down in car motor every second. The fit tightly into there sleeves. There is a lot of friction in comparison (even with oil), and yet they last a good while. There is basically nothing as far as wear goes. Chris has told me, in the UFO, once it is running, the wings lift to the point were they are hardly touching the pinions and balls. I suspect that the cones do the same thing. Eventually the tips will wear, but I bet it would take at least a few hundred years before they needed replacement. However, due to the ingenious design, the amount of friction and motion are so low, that the machine is designed to run virtually forever, if built properly.
The cones in the M3CD vibrate less than 1/16". When they reach resonance they appear to stop. They are still moving, but only a little. You don't need to suspend the cone tips. Which is good since you can't. Permanent magnets cannot create perfect stability (unless spinning at high speeds, i.e. levitron). The cone tip creates stability in the magnetic balance. You must have it. However due to the amount of wear created this is no big deal. A pinion change every thousand years sounds like pretty good maintenance to me :-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.                                                                                                                                                             &n! bsp;  Diego

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• Hi, Vibration is everything. Everything is a vibration. We try to remove vibration from technology, because we see it as bad. This is because our technology is
Message 6 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Hi,
Vibration is everything. Everything is a vibration. We try to remove vibration from technology, because we see it as bad. This is because our technology is backwards. Explosion instead of implosion. I always saw spin as power, and it is hard to see vibration as creating great energy. Do not be fooled. The magnetic standing wave will create more power than you can image. This misunderstanding created problems, and gave me the wrong outlook for all my early machines. I was trying to create spin. The isotope line should be almost straight. Even in Hamel's 9.5' UFO, the wings only vibrate 1/8"!
I haven't used that torch to weld aluminum. I used #6 1/2" screws to hold the aluminum together. I don't have a rivet gun, and this way I can take them out. That has came in handy. Rivets are lighter, and will work great.
These things will run for a long time. I was marveling over that a few days ago, before you asked. I was thinking, if my air vents are big enough, and it don't blow up or fly away, but just glows with plasma, what am I going to do? I guess I can shoot it with my potato gun or something :-) I am finishing my first M3CD, just because I have put so much work into it, there is no point in stopping now. I am going to build a bigger one, w/ 8" cones, and build it exactly like Chris did. Chris is building one with 8" cones now, because he is having the troubles I am having, balance. My new balancing system is working, sorta, but I worry that I have made too many changes. Chris REALLY knows what he is doing, and all the changes were his idea, but I still think that I should be repeating exactly first, then make changes. Then I wonder, why not build another 45GD with 3 cones? I got the magnets. I guess I got lots of time to think and draft, since I am fairly useless with my left thumb out of order. I am taking MSM and sleeping with a orac over my thumb, but it will be several days before I can do much of anything with it. Amazing how much we use it. I can't open zip lock bags without using my teeth! And typing is awkward, kinda painful, and slow too. Building is out of question, and so are games. I guess I will "take it easy", but I don't want to die of boredom. I will do some drafting for all the future machines I was going to start a few days from now. I have a four day weekend coming up, but it looks like I won't be using it to the fullest. Oh well :-) At least I still have all my digits. It's nice to know that my shell (body) will repair itself in this case. Anyway good luck to everyone, and wear gloves when working with sheet metal ;-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hi, Justin, It sounds very logical your explanation, and what I am actually using as tips are aluminum rods sharpened and  screw heads ,I taugh of the lifting by the rims but I was forgeting about the vibration that's a relatively new concept to me,  I'm trying to make sure that's the best way to go, and yes it is a very good deal talking about maintenance. . Also ,I tried to weld with torch and a special aluminum rod on my cones joints but didn' get a good grip from the alloy I saw in one of your pictures that you have one of this Bernzomatic propane cilinders did you tried before? What were the results? anyway looks to me that you used bolts just again I am just trying to achieve the best posible balance , I've decided that I'm gonna use rivets of 1/8" .Thank you for your attention and rapid response.Best regards.                                            Diego
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Hi Dieo et all,
This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn't wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1" shingle nails. They sit in 1/2" #6 screw heads. There is no spinning at all. Only a vibration (1/16"). Also your cones should have great lift to them, and this transfers a lot of the weight to the frame. A steel tip is going to take hundreds of years to dull down. Think about how many times a piston goes up and down in car motor every second. The fit tightly into there sleeves. There is a lot of friction in comparison (even with oil), and yet they last a good while. There is basically nothing as far as wear goes. Chris has told me, in the UFO, once it is running, the wings lift to the point were they are hardly touching the pinions and balls. I suspect that the cones do the same thing. Eventually the tips will wear, but I bet it would take at least a few hundred years before they needed replacement. However, due to the ingenious design, the amount of friction and motion are so low, that the machine is designed to run virtually forever, if built properly.
The cones in the M3CD vibrate less than 1/16". When they reach resonance they appear to stop. They are still moving, but only a little. You don't need to suspend the cone tips. Which is good since you can't. Permanent magnets cannot create perfect stability (unless spinning at high speeds, i.e. levitron). The cone tip creates stability in the magnetic balance. You must have it. However due to the amount of wear created this is no big deal. A pinion change every thousand years sounds like pretty good maintenance to me :-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.                                                                                                                                                             &n! bsp;  Diego

• Yep he is on the right track. Has excellent building skills. I give him one thumb up, cause the other one don t feel like movin ;-) LOL Size don t matter if
Message 7 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Yep he is on the right track. Has excellent building skills. I give him one thumb up, cause the other one don't feel like movin' ;-) LOL
Size don't matter if you have the skill to build at that level. I don't really, I like bigger.
-Justin

Ludo Willems wrote:

Hi all,Regarding cone tips, have a look at <http://members.xoom.com/woonbiologie/davidhamel.html>He's a Dutch guy with, to my opinion, a couple off clever ideas on building Hamel devices.Justin, thumbs up :) Ludo WillemsBelgium
----- Original Message -----
From: dieo
Sent: dinsdag 22 februari 2000 10:00
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Hi, Justin, It sounds very logical your explanation, and what I am actually using as tips are aluminum rods sharpened and  screw heads ,I taugh of the lifting by the rims but I was forgeting about the vibration that's a relatively new concept to me,  I'm trying to make sure that's the best way to go, and yes it is a very good deal talking about maintenance. . Also ,I tried to weld with torch and a special aluminum rod on my cones joints but didn' get a good grip from the alloy I saw in one of your pictures that you have one of this Bernzomatic propane cilinders did you tried before? What were the results? anyway looks to me that you used bolts just again I am just trying to achieve the best posible balance , I've decided that I'm gonna use rivets of 1/8" .Thank you for your attention and rapid response.Best regards.                                            Diego
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Hi Dieo et all,
This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn't wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1" shingle nails. They sit in 1/2" #6 screw heads. There is no spinning at all. Only a vibration (1/16"). Also your cones should have great lift to them, and this transfers a lot of the weight to the frame. A steel tip is going to take hundreds of years to dull down. Think about how many times a piston goes up and down in car motor every second. The fit tightly into there sleeves. There is a lot of friction in comparison (even with oil), and yet they last a good while. There is basically nothing as far as wear goes. Chris has told me, in the UFO, once it is running, the wings lift to the point were they are hardly touching the pinions and balls. I suspect that the cones do the same thing. Eventually the tips will wear, but I bet it would take at least a few hundred years before they needed replacement. However, due to the ingenious design, the amount of friction and motion are so low, that the machine is designed to run virtually forever, if built properly.
The cones in the M3CD vibrate less than 1/16". When they reach resonance they appear to stop. They are still moving, but only a little. You don't need to suspend the cone tips. Which is good since you can't. Permanent magnets cannot create perfect stability (unless spinning at high speeds, i.e. levitron). The cone tip creates stability in the magnetic balance. You must have it. However due to the amount of wear created this is no big deal. A pinion change every thousand years sounds like pretty good maintenance to me :-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.                                                                                                                                                             &n! bsp;  Diego

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• Yes those will work good. Please remember that the cones don t have to spin. Use the balls only if they pass the vibration down better than a point in notch.
Message 8 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Yes those will work good. Please remember that the cones don't have to spin. Use the balls only if they pass the vibration down better than a point in notch.
Also I have another thing for you to try if you wish. I tried to do this, but I can't magnetize my ball bearings. Take a deep aluminum pot lid, and bend it into a ellipse. As the lid becomes more elliptical, the sides will bend up a bit too. Bend a little at a time, until you get the right shape. Don't make it too elliptical, as it's hard to bend it back. Put a bolt in the middle, so the lid can be mounted on a drill. Then put that magnetic ball in the lid. Spin the drill, and the lid. The ball will clatter (loud) in the lid, and rotate around the lid, but slower than the rotation of the lid (this is when you decide to increase the bend more). In doing so the ball gets a wild spin too. If everything is right, the ball is suppose to starting glowing and crap, and then disappear. In 2-3 seconds it reappears. The ball jumps forward into the future! That is the claim anyway. I can't make my ball bearing magnetize (they stick to magnet, but don't hold mag field). Since you have a sphere magnet maybe you'd like to try it out. Who knows.
-Justin-_-

Patrick Parsons wrote:

Ludo,Justin and All Here is something I may incorporate into my device as far as "cone tips" or pivot points is concerned.Attached is a photo of the  NIB ( neodymium iron boron) magnets I got from http://www.wondermagnet.com/  It is one of there "grab bags". It was sent to me ( as a thank you ) for helping with there website. You will notice the sphere magnets on the top. The will stick together very well and you can rotate then with almost no detectable friction. I am thinking of using the as the pivot points on the cones or other parts. I will probably drill a steel or alum rod to a depth of 2/3 the dia. of the magnet and glue it in the hole and stake the edge of the hole just to be sure the magnet stays in place. Being magnetic they will help to self align when assembling the device and you can not see the lower side of what you putting together. The small 1/4" sphere magnets take ( as an estimation on my part) about 1 lbs. of pull to separate the first few thousands of an inch. and the larger one around 5 lbs. I knew NIB where very strong, but there are truly amazing in there strength. The lower silver and gold ring magnets CAN NOT be pull strait apart. I have a pretty good grip and found that separating them to be a chore. They must be slid sideways to separate them  and even that is difficult to do with the large silver ones. VERY STRONG. Patrick  ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 12:09 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Hi all,Regarding cone tips, have a look at <http://members.xoom.com/woonbiologie/davidhamel.html>He's a Dutch guy with, to my opinion, a couple off clever ideas on building Hamel devices.Justin, thumbs up :) Ludo WillemsBelgium
----- Original Message -----
From:dieo
Sent: dinsdag 22 februari 2000 10:00
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Hi, Justin, It sounds very logical your explanation, and what I am actually using as tips are aluminum rods sharpened and  screw heads ,I taugh of the lifting by the rims but I was forgeting about the vibration that's a relatively new concept to me,  I'm trying to make sure that's the best way to go, and yes it is a very good deal talking about maintenance. . Also ,I tried to weld with torch and a special aluminum rod on my cones joints but didn' get a good grip from the alloy I saw in one of your pictures that you have one of this Bernzomatic propane cilinders did you tried before? What were the results? anyway looks to me that you used bolts just again I am just trying to achieve the best posible balance , I've decided that I'm gonna use rivets of 1/8" .Thank you for your attention and rapid response.Best regards.                                            Diego
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Hi Dieo et all,
This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn't wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1" shingle nails. They sit in 1/2" #6 screw heads. There is no spinning at all. Only a vibration (1/16"). Also your cones should have great lift to them, and this transfers a lot of the weight to the frame. A steel tip is going to take hundreds of years to dull down. Think about how many times a piston goes up and down in car motor every second. The fit tightly into there sleeves. There is a lot of friction in comparison (even with oil), and yet they last a good while. There is basically nothing as far as wear goes. Chris has told me, in the UFO, once it is running, the wings lift to the point were they are hardly touching the pinions and balls. I suspect that the cones do the same thing. Eventually the tips will wear, but I bet it would take at least a few hundred years before they needed replacement. However, due to the ingenious design, the amount of friction and motion are so low, that the machine is designed to run virtually forever, if built properly.
The cones in the M3CD vibrate less than 1/16". When they reach resonance they appear to stop. They are still moving, but only a little. You don't need to suspend the cone tips. Which is good since you can't. Permanent magnets cannot create perfect stability (unless spinning at high speeds, i.e. levitron). The cone tip creates stability in the magnetic balance. You must have it. However due to the amount of wear created this is no big deal. A pinion change every thousand years sounds like pretty good maintenance to me :-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.

• Ludo,Justin and All Here is something I may incorporate into my device as far as cone tips or pivot points is concerned. Attached is a photo of the NIB (
Message 9 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Ludo,Justin and All

Here is something I may incorporate into my device as far as "cone tips" or pivot points is concerned.
Attached is a photo of the  NIB ( neodymium iron boron) magnets I got from http://www.wondermagnet.com/  It is one of there "grab bags". It was sent to me ( as a thank you ) for helping with there website.

You will notice the sphere magnets on the top. The will stick together very well and you can rotate then with almost no detectable friction. I am thinking of using the as the pivot points on the cones or other parts. I will probably drill a steel or alum rod to a depth of 2/3 the dia. of the magnet and glue it in the hole and stake the edge of the hole just to be sure the magnet stays in place. Being magnetic they will help to self align when assembling the device and you can not see the lower side of what you putting together. The small 1/4" sphere magnets take ( as an estimation on my part) about 1 lbs. of pull to separate the first few thousands of an inch. and the larger one around 5 lbs.

I knew NIB where very strong, but there are truly amazing in there strength. The lower silver and gold ring magnets CAN NOT be pull strait apart. I have a pretty good grip and found that separating them to be a chore. They must be slid sideways to separate them  and even that is difficult to do with the large silver ones. VERY STRONG.

Patrick

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 12:09 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Hi all,
Regarding cone tips, have a look at <http://members.xoom.com/woonbiologie/davidhamel.html>
He's a Dutch guy with, to my opinion, a couple off clever ideas on building Hamel devices.
Justin, thumbs up :)

Ludo Willems
Belgium
----- Original Message -----
From: dieo
Sent: dinsdag 22 februari 2000 10:00
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Hi, Justin, It sounds very logical your explanation, and what I am actually using as tips are aluminum rods sharpened and  screw heads ,I taugh of the lifting by the rims but I was forgeting about the vibration that's a relatively new concept to me,  I'm trying to make sure that's the best way to go, and yes it is a very good deal talking about maintenance. . Also ,I tried to weld with torch and a special aluminum rod on my cones joints but didn' get a good grip from the alloy I saw in one of your pictures that you have one of this Bernzomatic propane cilinders did you tried before? What were the results? anyway looks to me that you used bolts just again I am just trying to achieve the best posible balance , I've decided that I'm gonna use rivets of 1/8" .Thank you for your attention and rapid response.Best regards.
Diego

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 7:21 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Hi Dieo et all,
This is not a problem at all. First the cone tips shouldn't wear down much in the first place, what are you using for tips? I am using 1" shingle nails. They sit in 1/2" #6 screw heads. There is no spinning at all. Only a vibration (1/16"). Also your cones should have great lift to them, and this transfers a lot of the weight to the frame. A steel tip is going to take hundreds of years to dull down. Think about how many times a piston goes up and down in car motor every second. The fit tightly into there sleeves. There is a lot of friction in comparison (even with oil), and yet they last a good while. There is basically nothing as far as wear goes. Chris has told me, in the UFO, once it is running, the wings lift to the point were they are hardly touching the pinions and balls. I suspect that the cones do the same thing. Eventually the tips will wear, but I bet it would take at least a few hundred years before they needed replacement. However, due to the ingenious design, the amount of friction and motion are so low, that the machine is designed to run virtually forever, if built properly.
The cones in the M3CD vibrate less than 1/16". When they reach resonance they appear to stop. They are still moving, but only a little. You don't need to suspend the cone tips. Which is good since you can't. Permanent magnets cannot create perfect stability (unless spinning at high speeds, i.e. levitron). The cone tip creates stability in the magnetic balance. You must have it. However due to the amount of wear created this is no big deal. A pinion change every thousand years sounds like pretty good maintenance to me :-)
-Justin

dieo wrote:

Hello everybody,I've been reading for months now about your ideas and concepts and I am currently building the mini M3CDbut one of my questions is How are we going to avoid for the tips of the cones to be worn out, therefore collapsing the whole preciously balanced structure!!!??????? ..the only idea that I can come out with, is to magnetically suspend the cone tips as well ,but due to nature of magnets this is not easily done unless we were able to combine special type of magnets to create perfect suspension inside the cones that are  dynamically seeking balance!!! , in other words, a completely frictionless system would create more problems to solve added to the old ones of perpetual movement and balance, just to mention a few ,anyway "lets walk before running ",but I am already studying the possibilities of such system ,I am not quite sure if the other machines are frictionless , can some body explain how can we would make this work for a considerable period of time???.Good Luck.                                                                                                                                                             &n! bsp;  Diego

• Yah that would be interesting. Send the link, if it s not much trouble. The ball dissappears, not because it goes flying :-) It is engulfed in plasma, and then
Message 10 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Yah that would be interesting. Send the link, if it's not much trouble. The ball dissappears, not because it goes flying :-) It is engulfed in plasma, and then just blinks out of existance. The thing is that the ball travels in a streptation motion, and it's magnetic axis is going all over the place. Apparently that causes weird stuff to happen. Use a variable speed drill so you can control the speed easy. Also the drill will shake in your hands some. This is needed, so don't try to stop it by bolting the motor down.
Good Luck,
-Justin

Patrick Parsons wrote:

Now this does sound interesting. I might give it a try.... who knows. At worst the magnet could fly off across the room and stick to some unseen spot ,never to be found again, Do you think that would qualify as "disappearing" I would think that a motor like Tracy used in his Tracy wheels would work just great for such a thing. I did run across a single page on the web telling how John Searl would spin a magnetized disk really fast with a gas motor. The disk would get a charge developed on  it, start to glow, then rise into the air and fly off. The coupler of the disk to the spinning assembly was made in such a manner to allow separation. I can probably dig up the page link if anyone wants it. Patrick

Yes those will work good. Please remember that the cones don't have to spin. Use the balls only if they pass the vibration down better than a point in notch.
Also I have another thing for you to try if you wish. I tried to do this, but I can't magnetize my ball bearings. Take a deep aluminum pot lid, and bend it into a ellipse. As the lid becomes more elliptical, the sides will bend up a bit too. Bend a little at a time, until you get the right shape. Don't make it too elliptical, as it's hard to bend it back. Put a bolt in the middle, so the lid can be mounted on a drill. Then put that magnetic ball in the lid. Spin the drill, and the lid. The ball will clatter (loud) in the lid, and rotate around the lid, but slower than the rotation of the lid (this is when you decide to increase the bend more). In doing so the ball gets a wild spin too. If everything is right, the ball is suppose to starting glowing and crap, and then disappear. In 2-3 seconds it reappears. The ball jumps forward into the future! That is the claim anyway. I can't make my ball bearing magnetize (they stick to magnet, but don't hold mag field). Since you have a sphere magnet maybe you'd like to try it out. Who knows.
-Justin-_-

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• Now this does sound interesting. I might give it a try.... who knows. At worst the magnet could fly off across the room and stick to some unseen spot ,never to
Message 11 of 15 , Feb 22, 2000
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Now this does sound interesting. I might give it a try.... who knows. At worst the magnet could fly off across the room and stick to some unseen spot ,never to be found again, Do you think that would qualify as "disappearing"

I would think that a motor like Tracy used in his Tracy wheels would work just great for such a thing.

I did run across a single page on the web telling how John Searl would spin a magnetized disk really fast with a gas motor. The disk would get a charge developed on  it, start to glow, then rise into the air and fly off. The coupler of the disk to the spinning assembly was made in such a manner to allow separation. I can probably dig up the page link if anyone wants it.

Patrick

Yes those will work good. Please remember that the cones don't have to spin. Use the balls only if they pass the vibration down better than a point in notch.
Also I have another thing for you to try if you wish. I tried to do this, but I can't magnetize my ball bearings. Take a deep aluminum pot lid, and bend it into a ellipse. As the lid becomes more elliptical, the sides will bend up a bit too. Bend a little at a time, until you get the right shape. Don't make it too elliptical, as it's hard to bend it back. Put a bolt in the middle, so the lid can be mounted on a drill. Then put that magnetic ball in the lid. Spin the drill, and the lid. The ball will clatter (loud) in the lid, and rotate around the lid, but slower than the rotation of the lid (this is when you decide to increase the bend more). In doing so the ball gets a wild spin too. If everything is right, the ball is suppose to starting glowing and crap, and then disappear. In 2-3 seconds it reappears. The ball jumps forward into the future! That is the claim anyway. I can't make my ball bearing magnetize (they stick to magnet, but don't hold mag field). Since you have a sphere magnet maybe you'd like to try it out. Who knows.
-Justin-_-

• Justin I could not find the link, but I did find this. A downloaded copy in txt form of the story...... One of the most famous researchers in this area is John
Message 12 of 15 , Feb 23, 2000
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Justin

I could not find the link, but I did find this. A downloaded copy in txt form of the story......

One of the most famous researchers in this area is John Searl, who noticed
that spinning metal would accumulate electrons on the rim, possibly through
some kind of centrifugal thrust. The initial test was a metal disk attached to
a breakaway coupling driven by a gasoline engine. It was carried out in the
country and as the disk reached higher and higher speeds, tremendous
electrostatic forces were generated which were estimated at 10 to the 6th
volts! That's when the disk began to glow blue, broke the coupling, rose to
about 30 feet, continued to accelerate, turned pink and shot off into space.
Searl claims this happened with many of his early tests and as a result he
lost the device each time. Later he learned how to control the device. The
neat thing about it, the Searl disk is self-propelling using a magnetic drive.

Patrick.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 9:22 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Yah that would be interesting. Send the link, if it's not much trouble. The ball dissappears, not because it goes flying :-) It is engulfed in plasma, and then just blinks out of existance. The thing is that the ball travels in a streptation motion, and it's magnetic axis is going all over the place. Apparently that causes weird stuff to happen. Use a variable speed drill so you can control the speed easy. Also the drill will shake in your hands some. This is needed, so don't try to stop it by bolting the motor down.
Good Luck,
-Justin

Patrick Parsons wrote:

Now this does sound interesting. I might give it a try.... who knows. At worst the magnet could fly off across the room and stick to some unseen spot ,never to be found again, Do you think that would qualify as "disappearing" I would think that a motor like Tracy used in his Tracy wheels would work just great for such a thing. I did run across a single page on the web telling how John Searl would spin a magnetized disk really fast with a gas motor. The disk would get a charge developed on  it, start to glow, then rise into the air and fly off. The coupler of the disk to the spinning assembly was made in such a manner to allow separation. I can probably dig up the page link if anyone wants it. Patrick

Yes those will work good. Please remember that the cones don't have to spin. Use the balls only if they pass the vibration down better than a point in notch.
Also I have another thing for you to try if you wish. I tried to do this, but I can't magnetize my ball bearings. Take a deep aluminum pot lid, and bend it into a ellipse. As the lid becomes more elliptical, the sides will bend up a bit too. Bend a little at a time, until you get the right shape. Don't make it too elliptical, as it's hard to bend it back. Put a bolt in the middle, so the lid can be mounted on a drill. Then put that magnetic ball in the lid. Spin the drill, and the lid. The ball will clatter (loud) in the lid, and rotate around the lid, but slower than the rotation of the lid (this is when you decide to increase the bend more). In doing so the ball gets a wild spin too. If everything is right, the ball is suppose to starting glowing and crap, and then disappear. In 2-3 seconds it reappears. The ball jumps forward into the future! That is the claim anyway. I can't make my ball bearing magnetize (they stick to magnet, but don't hold mag field). Since you have a sphere magnet maybe you'd like to try it out. Who knows.
-Justin-_-

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• Hi Justin, I forgot to brush down the surface of my cones before welding ,but the bonding of the alloy is good ,but I certanly need practice on this tool in
Message 13 of 15 , Feb 23, 2000
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Hi Justin, I forgot to brush down the surface of my cones before welding ,but the bonding of the alloy is good ,but I certanly need practice  on this tool in order to get a nice smooth weld,cause I had to use my dremel to smooth the surface after . well I need to attach the magnets to my exterior rims now and align my tree wood columns to a perfect 90 degrees, I think at some point I am gonna use a cilinder to do this like the dutch researcher, ,Thank you again ,Justin.
Diego

Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 4:15 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Hi,
Vibration is everything. Everything is a vibration. We try to remove vibration from technology, because we see it as bad. This is because our technology is backwards. Explosion instead of implosion. I always saw spin as power, and it is hard to see vibration as creating great energy. Do not be fooled. The magnetic standing wave will create more power than you can image. This misunderstanding created problems, and gave me the wrong outlook for all my early machines. I was trying to create spin. The isotope line should be almost straight. Even in Hamel's 9.5' UFO, the wings only vibrate 1/8"!
I haven't used that torch to weld aluminum. I used #6 1/2" screws to hold the aluminum together. I don't have a rivet gun, and this way I can take them out. That has came in handy. Rivets are lighter, and will work great.
These things will run for a long time. I was marveling over that a few days ago, before you asked. I was thinking, if my air vents are big enough, and it don't blow up or fly away, but just glows with plasma, what am I going to do? I guess I can shoot it with my potato gun or something :-) I am finishing my first M3CD, just because I have put so much work into it, there is no point in stopping now. I am going to build a bigger one, w/ 8" cones, and build it exactly like Chris did. Chris is building one with 8" cones now, because he is having the troubles I am having, balance. My new balancing system is working, sorta, but I worry that I have made too many changes. Chris REALLY knows what he is doing, and all the changes were his idea, but I still think that I should be repeating exactly first, then make changes. Then I wonder, why not build another 45GD with 3 cones? I got the magnets. I guess I got lots of time to think and draft, since I am fairly useless with my left thumb out of order. I am taking MSM and sleeping with a orac over my thumb, but it will be several days before I can do much of anything with it. Amazing how much we use it. I can't open zip lock bags without using my teeth! And typing is awkward, kinda painful, and slow too. Building is out of question, and so are games. I guess I will "take it easy", but I don't want to die of boredom. I will do some drafting for all the future machines I was going to start a few days from now. I have a four day weekend coming up, but it looks like I won't be using it to the fullest. Oh well :-) At least I still have all my digits. It's nice to know that my shell (body) will repair itself in this case. Anyway good luck to everyone, and wear gloves when working with sheet metal ;-)
-Justin

• Thanks Patrick. Too bad we don t have more info about the disc.... Sounds like a metal magnetized disc, spinning. Could it be that simple? Has anyone else read
Message 14 of 15 , Feb 23, 2000
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Thanks Patrick. Too bad we don't have more info about the disc.... Sounds like a metal magnetized disc, spinning. Could it be that simple?
Has anyone else read DMBoss' website (posted on Keely net today). He is working with amazing stuff. Noble gases are the key to harnessing the primary points. Interesting. The Hamel machines produce Noble Gases. Chris had that funny smell come from his machine, shortly after he started his machine. Tracy also got it after adding the wire to the rings. These noble gases are created by the engine. I wonder if the noble gases play an important role in the machine. I bet they do. Interesting how everything overlaps, isn't it?
-Justin

Patrick Parsons wrote:

Justin I could not find the link, but I did find this. A downloaded copy in txt form of the story...... One of the most famous researchers in this area is John Searl, who noticed
that spinning metal would accumulate electrons on the rim, possibly through
some kind of centrifugal thrust. The initial test was a metal disk attached to
a breakaway coupling driven by a gasoline engine. It was carried out in the
country and as the disk reached higher and higher speeds, tremendous
electrostatic forces were generated which were estimated at 10 to the 6th
volts! That's when the disk began to glow blue, broke the coupling, rose to
about 30 feet, continued to accelerate, turned pink and shot off into space.
Searl claims this happened with many of his early tests and as a result he
lost the device each time. Later he learned how to control the device. The
neat thing about it, the Searl disk is self-propelling using a magnetic drive. Patrick.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 9:22 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Yah that would be interesting. Send the link, if it's not much trouble. The ball dissappears, not because it goes flying :-) It is engulfed in plasma, and then just blinks out of existance. The thing is that the ball travels in a streptation motion, and it's magnetic axis is going all over the place. Apparently that causes weird stuff to happen. Use a variable speed drill so you can control the speed easy. Also the drill will shake in your hands some. This is needed, so don't try to stop it by bolting the motor down.
Good Luck,
-Justin

Patrick Parsons wrote:

Now this does sound interesting. I might give it a try.... who knows. At worst the magnet could fly off across the room and stick to some unseen spot ,never to be found again, Do you think that would qualify as "disappearing" I would think that a motor like Tracy used in his Tracy wheels would work just great for such a thing. I did run across a single page on the web telling how John Searl would spin a magnetized disk really fast with a gas motor. The disk would get a charge developed on  it, start to glow, then rise into the air and fly off. The coupler of the disk to the spinning assembly was made in such a manner to allow separation. I can probably dig up the page link if anyone wants it. Patrick

Yes those will work good. Please remember that the cones don't have to spin. Use the balls only if they pass the vibration down better than a point in notch.
Also I have another thing for you to try if you wish. I tried to do this, but I can't magnetize my ball bearings. Take a deep aluminum pot lid, and bend it into a ellipse. As the lid becomes more elliptical, the sides will bend up a bit too. Bend a little at a time, until you get the right shape. Don't make it too elliptical, as it's hard to bend it back. Put a bolt in the middle, so the lid can be mounted on a drill. Then put that magnetic ball in the lid. Spin the drill, and the lid. The ball will clatter (loud) in the lid, and rotate around the lid, but slower than the rotation of the lid (this is when you decide to increase the bend more). In doing so the ball gets a wild spin too. If everything is right, the ball is suppose to starting glowing and crap, and then disappear. In 2-3 seconds it reappears. The ball jumps forward into the future! That is the claim anyway. I can't make my ball bearing magnetize (they stick to magnet, but don't hold mag field). Since you have a sphere magnet maybe you'd like to try it out. Who knows.
-Justin-_-
• FYI: In 1949 John Searl was employed by the Midlands Board as an electric fitter. He was very enthusiastic about the subject of electricity, though he had no
Message 15 of 15 , Feb 23, 2000
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FYI:
In 1949 John Searl was employed by the Midlands Board as an electric fitter. He was very enthusiastic about the subject of electricity, though he had no formal education on the subject other than was required by his job. Unhindered by conventional ideas about electricity, he carried out his own investigation in to the subject. During work on electric motors and generators he noticed that a small electromotive force(E.M.F.) was produced by the spinning metal parts, the negative toward the outside and the positive toward the rotational axis. In 1950, he experimented with rotating slip rings and measured a small E.M.F. He also noticed that when the rings were spinning freely and no electrical current was taken, his hair bristled. His conclusions were free electrons in the metal were spun out by centrifugal force being produced by the static field in the metal. He then decided to build a generator on the same principle.
It had a segmented rotor disk, passing through electromagnets at its periphery. The electromagnets were energized from the rotor, and were intended to boost the E.M.F.
By 1952, the first generator had been constructed and was about three feet in diameter. It was tested in the o pen by Seal and a friend. The armature was set in motion by a small engine. The device produced the expected electrical power, but at an unexpectedly high potential. At relatively low armature speeds a potential of the order of 10.5 volts was produced, indicated by static effects on nearby objects.
The really unexpected then occurred. While still speeding up, the generator lifted and rose to a height of about 50 feet above the ground, breaking the union between itself and the engine. Here it stayed for a while, still speeding up and surrounding itself with a pink glow. This indicated ionization of air at a much higher pressure of about 10.3 mm Hg. More interesting  the side-effect, causing local radio receivers to go  by themselves. Finally, the whole generator accelerated at a fantastic rate and is thought to have gone off into
space.

Aldo R. Pando
ICQ#49500323
http://hamelmachines.cjb.net
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 11:14 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."

Thanks Patrick. Too bad we don't have more info about the disc.... Sounds like a metal magnetized disc, spinning. Could it be that simple?
Has anyone else read DMBoss' website (posted on Keely net today). He is working with amazing stuff. Noble gases are the key to harnessing the primary points. Interesting. The Hamel machines produce Noble Gases. Chris had that funny smell come from his machine, shortly after he started his machine. Tracy also got it after adding the wire to the rings. These noble gases are created by the engine. I wonder if the noble gases play an important role in the machine. I bet they do. Interesting how everything overlaps, isn't it?
-Justin

Patrick Parsons wrote:

Justin I could not find the link, but I did find this. A downloaded copy in txt form of the story...... One of the most famous researchers in this area is John Searl, who noticed
that spinning metal would accumulate electrons on the rim, possibly through
some kind of centrifugal thrust. The initial test was a metal disk attached to
a breakaway coupling driven by a gasoline engine. It was carried out in the
country and as the disk reached higher and higher speeds, tremendous
electrostatic forces were generated which were estimated at 10 to the 6th
volts! That's when the disk began to glow blue, broke the coupling, rose to
about 30 feet, continued to accelerate, turned pink and shot off into space.
Searl claims this happened with many of his early tests and as a result he
lost the device each time. Later he learned how to control the device. The
neat thing about it, the Searl disk is self-propelling using a magnetic drive. Patrick.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 9:22 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: "worn out cones...."
Yah that would be interesting. Send the link, if it's not much trouble. The ball dissappears, not because it goes flying :-) It is engulfed in plasma, and then just blinks out of existance. The thing is that the ball travels in a streptation motion, and it's magnetic axis is going all over the place. Apparently that causes weird stuff to happen. Use a variable speed drill so you can control the speed easy. Also the drill will shake in your hands some. This is needed, so don't try to stop it by bolting the motor down.
Good Luck,
-Justin

Patrick Parsons wrote:

Now this does sound interesting. I might give it a try.... who knows. At worst the magnet could fly off across the room and stick to some unseen spot ,never to be found again, Do you think that would qualify as "disappearing" I would think that a motor like Tracy used in his Tracy wheels would work just great for such a thing. I did run across a single page on the web telling how John Searl would spin a magnetized disk really fast with a gas motor. The disk would get a charge developed on  it, start to glow, then rise into the air and fly off. The coupler of the disk to the spinning assembly was made in such a manner to allow separation. I can probably dig up the page link if anyone wants it. Patrick

Yes those will work good. Please remember that the cones don't have to spin. Use the balls only if they pass the vibration down better than a point in notch.
Also I have another thing for you to try if you wish. I tried to do this, but I can't magnetize my ball bearings. Take a deep aluminum pot lid, and bend it into a ellipse. As the lid becomes more elliptical, the sides will bend up a bit too. Bend a little at a time, until you get the right shape. Don't make it too elliptical, as it's hard to bend it back. Put a bolt in the middle, so the lid can be mounted on a drill. Then put that magnetic ball in the lid. Spin the drill, and the lid. The ball will clatter (loud) in the lid, and rotate around the lid, but slower than the rotation of the lid (this is when you decide to increase the bend more). In doing so the ball gets a wild spin too. If everything is right, the ball is suppose to starting glowing and crap, and then disappear. In 2-3 seconds it reappears. The ball jumps forward into the future! That is the claim anyway. I can't make my ball bearing magnetize (they stick to magnet, but don't hold mag field). Since you have a sphere magnet maybe you'd like to try it out. Who knows.
-Justin-_-

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