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Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

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  • Ole Jensen
    Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to build big . He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in diameter. there is no way he will build a small
    Message 1 of 28 , Jul 12, 2006
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      Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to "build big".
      He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in
      diameter. there is no way he will build a small ship.
      He is not interested in proving anything, he already
      knows it will work, and he has been told to build it.

      Ole.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Craig Stangland" <cwstang@...>
      To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:50 PM
      Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel


      I have a question. Can't these working models ever one is discussing,
      be built to the "SIZE" of a model instead of full scale?

      I recall in the movie "The Time Machine" (first one) the inventor
      created a small scale model. i.e. proof of concept, to which he
      demonstrated to his friends that he indeed could travel into the
      future/past.

      So I'm wondering why Mr. Hamel and others don't build their working
      models on a smaller scale. It would certainly cut costs and still prove
      that their idea works..

      Anyone have any thoughts on this?

      Craig
      =============
    • Brian
      is there a solid plan in place for the ship to actually be completed? david is not getting any younger and it seems that there is still a a huge amount of work
      Message 2 of 28 , Jul 12, 2006
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        is there a solid plan in place for the ship to actually be completed?
        david is not getting any younger and it seems that there is still a a
        huge amount of work (years?)
        and alot of money to be spent in the building process. what is the
        estimated time for completion on the project?are there people who have
        been designated to proceed with the project in case david is unable to?

        brian

        Ole Jensen wrote:
        >
        > Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to "build big".
        > He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in
        > diameter. there is no way he will build a small ship.
        > He is not interested in proving anything, he already
        > knows it will work, and he has been told to build it.
        >
        > Ole.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Craig Stangland" <cwstang@... <mailto:cwstang%40mn.rr.com>>
        > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hameltech%40yahoogroups.com>>
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:50 PM
        > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
        >
        > I have a question. Can't these working models ever one is discussing,
        > be built to the "SIZE" of a model instead of full scale?
        >
        > I recall in the movie "The Time Machine" (first one) the inventor
        > created a small scale model. i.e. proof of concept, to which he
        > demonstrated to his friends that he indeed could travel into the
        > future/past.
        >
        > So I'm wondering why Mr. Hamel and others don't build their working
        > models on a smaller scale. It would certainly cut costs and still prove
        > that their idea works..
        >
        > Anyone have any thoughts on this?
        >
        > Craig
        > =============
        >
        >
      • Ole Jensen
        Mr Hamel is building the ship as fast as he can. There is a plan in his head. There are parts to the plan that are known and parts that will have to be figured
        Message 3 of 28 , Jul 13, 2006
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          Mr Hamel is building the ship as fast as he can.
          There is a plan in his head. There are parts to the plan
          that are known and parts that will have to be figured
          out when required (like how to shape the granite
          that goes in the ship). Mr Hamel has discussed what
          will happen when he is no longer able to continue.
          There are a lot of people who have helped over the years
          and more will undoubtedly help in the future.

          Ole.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Brian" <brian@...>
          To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:48 PM
          Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel


          is there a solid plan in place for the ship to actually be completed?
          david is not getting any younger and it seems that there is still a a
          huge amount of work (years?)
          and alot of money to be spent in the building process. what is the
          estimated time for completion on the project?are there people who have
          been designated to proceed with the project in case david is unable to?

          brian
        • Dean McGowan
          This is all terrible news. Is there enough time, money and knowledge to complete the ship ? Is it possible for Mr Hamel to draw all the plans for the
          Message 4 of 28 , Jul 13, 2006
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            This is all terrible news.

            Is there enough time, money and knowledge to complete the ship ?
            Is it possible for Mr Hamel to draw all the plans for the construction ?

            Hoping you a swift and full recovery to good health Mr Hamel.

            Regards,

            Dean McGowan


             


            From: "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@...>
            Reply-To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
            To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
            Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 05:11:13 -0400

            Mr Hamel is building the ship as fast as he can.
            There is a plan in his head. There are parts to the plan
            that are known and parts that will have to be figured
            out when required (like how to shape the granite
            that goes in the ship). Mr Hamel has discussed what
            will happen when he is no longer able to continue.
            There are a lot of people who have helped over the years
            and more will undoubtedly help in the future.

            Ole.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Brian" <brian@seattledsp. com>
            To: <hameltech@yahoogrou ps.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:48 PM
            Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

            is there a solid plan in place for the ship to actually be completed?
            david is not getting any younger and it seems that there is still a a
            huge amount of work (years?)
            and alot of money to be spent in the building process. what is the
            estimated time for completion on the project?are there people who have
            been designated to proceed with the project in case david is unable to?

            brian


          • Craig Stangland
            And HOW does Mr. Hamel KNOW his ship will work not having MADE one before? Craig =================
            Message 5 of 28 , Jul 13, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              And HOW does Mr. Hamel KNOW his ship will work not having MADE one before?

              Craig
              =================

              Ole Jensen wrote:

              Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to "build big".
              He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in
              diameter. there is no way he will build a small ship.
              He is not interested in proving anything, he already
              knows it will work, and he has been told to build it.

              Ole.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Craig Stangland" <cwstang@.... com>
              To: <hameltech@yahoogrou ps.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:50 PM
              Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

              I have a question. Can't these working models ever one is discussing,
              be built to the "SIZE" of a model instead of full scale?

              I recall in the movie "The Time Machine" (first one) the inventor
              created a small scale model. i.e. proof of concept, to which he
              demonstrated to his friends that he indeed could travel into the
              future/past.

              So I'm wondering why Mr. Hamel and others don't build their working
              models on a smaller scale. It would certainly cut costs and still prove
              that their idea works..

              Anyone have any thoughts on this?

              Craig
              ============ =

            • Mike
              Craig, I only wish to comment on your previous post; most things CANNOT BE SCALED successfully without adjustments and you have to be skilled to know what
              Message 6 of 28 , Jul 13, 2006
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                Craig,
                       I only wish to comment on your previous post; most things CANNOT BE SCALED successfully without 'adjustments' and you have to be skilled to know what and how to make those 'adjustments' example, every piece of metal or substance will have a 'natural resonance, bigger is lower frequency! look AT A CHURCH ORGAN, bass pipes are maybe 16 ft long for 41 hz note, so make same small enough to put in your pocket and most notes will be outside your auditory perception, certainly harmonics will now be discordant anyway! so scale here no good;
                 
                 
                Take Ships and boats; why will a dingy plane on top of the water, and bigger boats not!!!!
                 
                General formulae is that for displacement craft, speed at which wave inhibits speed (prior to planing) is considered to be 1.4 times the square root of the waterline length, decreasing with size AND WEIGHT to 1.0 factor for 'Tea Clipper size' after which longer will actually go slower!!! So, without exactly knowing WHY, clippers were made to exactly the right dimensions for maximum speed to market from India!!!
                 
                A simple explanation, characteristics of water and wind remain constant, but as a sailboat increases in size, sails,( in one plane only) SQUARE in area according to size of vessel, while weight (displacement) has 3 dimensions, and thus increases as the CUBE of size, so power to weight decreases dramatically with size
                 
                Therefore 'scaling' totally inappropriate unless corrections can be understood, built in, and applied!!!
                 
                Really a general knowledge of all the facets of the world need to be known and understood more perhaps?
                 
                Mike.
                 
                Mike. J. Furness
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: hameltech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hameltech@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Stangland
                Sent: 13 July 2006 15:21
                To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

                And HOW does Mr. Hamel KNOW his ship will work not having MADE one before?

                Craig
                =================

                Ole Jensen wrote:

                Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to "build big".
                He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in
                diameter. there is no way he will build a small ship.
                He is not interested in proving anything, he already
                knows it will work, and he has been told to build it.

                Ole.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Craig Stangland" <cwstang@.... com>
                To: <hameltech@yahoogrou ps.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:50 PM
                Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

                I have a question. Can't these working models ever one is discussing,
                be built to the "SIZE" of a model instead of full scale?

                I recall in the movie "The Time Machine" (first one) the inventor
                created a small scale model. i.e. proof of concept, to which he
                demonstrated to his friends that he indeed could travel into the
                future/past.

                So I'm wondering why Mr. Hamel and others don't build their working
                models on a smaller scale. It would certainly cut costs and still prove
                that their idea works..

                Anyone have any thoughts on this?

                Craig
                ============ =

              • Dean McGowan
                I have recently come to accept that scale really does play an important role in the development of all of these technologies. Even with my own attempts and
                Message 7 of 28 , Jul 14, 2006
                • 0 Attachment


                  I have recently come to accept that scale really does play an important role in the development of all of these technologies. Even with my own attempts and ideas that diverge from the designs methodology currently presented in the Hamel arena I am finding that getting a balanced system is extremely difficult if not improbable. Not to say I have not had encouraging results like most. But the sheer cost and might i say danger of working with large neodymium magnets is almost exclusive with my available funds. We really need an investment angel to break through here.


                  Regards,

                  Dean McGowan


                   


                  From: "Mike" <mikefurness2002@...>
                  Reply-To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                  To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: RE: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
                  Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:25:51 +0100

                  Craig,
                         I only wish to comment on your previous post; most things CANNOT BE SCALED successfully without 'adjustments' and you have to be skilled to know what and how to make those 'adjustments' example, every piece of metal or substance will have a 'natural resonance, bigger is lower frequency! look AT A CHURCH ORGAN, bass pipes are maybe 16 ft long for 41 hz note, so make same small enough to put in your pocket and most notes will be outside your auditory perception, certainly harmonics will now be discordant anyway! so scale here no good;
                   
                   
                  Take Ships and boats; why will a dingy plane on top of the water, and bigger boats not!!!!
                   
                  General formulae is that for displacement craft, speed at which wave inhibits speed (prior to planing) is considered to be 1.4 times the square root of the waterline length, decreasing with size AND WEIGHT to 1.0 factor for 'Tea Clipper size' after which longer will actually go slower!!! So, without exactly knowing WHY, clippers were made to exactly the right dimensions for maximum speed to market from India!!!
                   
                  A simple explanation, characteristics of water and wind remain constant, but as a sailboat increases in size, sails,( in one plane only) SQUARE in area according to size of vessel, while weight (displacement) has 3 dimensions, and thus increases as the CUBE of size, so power to weight decreases dramatically with size
                   
                  Therefore 'scaling' totally inappropriate unless corrections can be understood, built in, and applied!!!
                   
                  Really a general knowledge of all the facets of the world need to be known and understood more perhaps?
                   
                  Mike.
                   
                  Mike. J. Furness
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: hameltech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hameltech@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Stangland
                  Sent: 13 July 2006 15:21
                  To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

                  And HOW does Mr. Hamel KNOW his ship will work not having MADE one before?

                  Craig
                  =================

                  Ole Jensen wrote:

                  Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to "build big".
                  He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in
                  diameter. there is no way he will build a small ship.
                  He is not interested in proving anything, he already
                  knows it will work, and he has been told to build it.

                  Ole.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Craig Stangland" <cwstang@.... com>
                  To: <hameltech@yahoogrou ps.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:50 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

                  I have a question. Can't these working models ever one is discussing,
                  be built to the "SIZE" of a model instead of full scale?

                  I recall in the movie "The Time Machine" (first one) the inventor
                  created a small scale model. i.e. proof of concept, to which he
                  demonstrated to his friends that he indeed could travel into the
                  future/past.

                  So I'm wondering why Mr. Hamel and others don't build their working
                  models on a smaller scale. It would certainly cut costs and still prove
                  that their idea works..

                  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

                  Craig
                  ============ =


                • Dean McGowan
                  I hope that didnt come across like i am asking for money there .. I m not .. I am stating the obvious need for the whole community, I just wish we could all be
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jul 14, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment


                    I hope that didnt come across like i am asking for money there .. I'm not .. I am stating the obvious need for the whole community, I just wish we could all be given a huge government grant to all come together in one place and put our minds together in one huge concerted effort to make things happen. I almost hope for a scenario where a meteor is truly coming towards earth and there is a dire need to get everyone to safety and all the barriers are thrown aside to us all doing this .. yet the world is so beautiful as is and I wouldnt wish that for any new tech.

                    Regards,

                    Dean McGowan


                     


                    From: "Dean McGowan" <dean_mcgowan@...>
                    Reply-To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
                    Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:43:59 +1000


                    I have recently come to accept that scale really does play an important role in the development of all of these technologies. Even with my own attempts and ideas that diverge from the designs methodology currently presented in the Hamel arena I am finding that getting a balanced system is extremely difficult if not improbable. Not to say I have not had encouraging results like most. But the sheer cost and might i say danger of working with large neodymium magnets is almost exclusive with my available funds. We really need an investment angel to break through here.


                    Regards,

                    Dean McGowan


                     


                    From: "Mike" <mikefurness2002@...>
                    Reply-To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: RE: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
                    Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:25:51 +0100

                    Craig,
                           I only wish to comment on your previous post; most things CANNOT BE SCALED successfully without 'adjustments' and you have to be skilled to know what and how to make those 'adjustments' example, every piece of metal or substance will have a 'natural resonance, bigger is lower frequency! look AT A CHURCH ORGAN, bass pipes are maybe 16 ft long for 41 hz note, so make same small enough to put in your pocket and most notes will be outside your auditory perception, certainly harmonics will now be discordant anyway! so scale here no good;
                     
                     
                    Take Ships and boats; why will a dingy plane on top of the water, and bigger boats not!!!!
                     
                    General formulae is that for displacement craft, speed at which wave inhibits speed (prior to planing) is considered to be 1.4 times the square root of the waterline length, decreasing with size AND WEIGHT to 1.0 factor for 'Tea Clipper size' after which longer will actually go slower!!! So, without exactly knowing WHY, clippers were made to exactly the right dimensions for maximum speed to market from India!!!
                     
                    A simple explanation, characteristics of water and wind remain constant, but as a sailboat increases in size, sails,( in one plane only) SQUARE in area according to size of vessel, while weight (displacement) has 3 dimensions, and thus increases as the CUBE of size, so power to weight decreases dramatically with size
                     
                    Therefore 'scaling' totally inappropriate unless corrections can be understood, built in, and applied!!!
                     
                    Really a general knowledge of all the facets of the world need to be known and understood more perhaps?
                     
                    Mike.
                     
                    Mike. J. Furness
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: hameltech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hameltech@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Craig Stangland
                    Sent: 13 July 2006 15:21
                    To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

                    And HOW does Mr. Hamel KNOW his ship will work not having MADE one before?

                    Craig
                    =================

                    Ole Jensen wrote:

                    Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to "build big".
                    He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in
                    diameter. there is no way he will build a small ship.
                    He is not interested in proving anything, he already
                    knows it will work, and he has been told to build it.

                    Ole.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Craig Stangland" <cwstang@.... com>
                    To: <hameltech@yahoogrou ps.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:50 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel

                    I have a question. Can't these working models ever one is discussing,
                    be built to the "SIZE" of a model instead of full scale?

                    I recall in the movie "The Time Machine" (first one) the inventor
                    created a small scale model. i.e. proof of concept, to which he
                    demonstrated to his friends that he indeed could travel into the
                    future/past.

                    So I'm wondering why Mr. Hamel and others don't build their working
                    models on a smaller scale. It would certainly cut costs and still prove
                    that their idea works..

                    Anyone have any thoughts on this?

                    Craig
                    ============ =



                  • jmunson@his.com
                    The chances of receiving *any* government funding to pursue a project whereby the oil, etc., industries suffer, is nil. In fact, you will get the opposite -
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jul 14, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The chances of receiving *any* government funding to pursue a project whereby
                      the oil, etc., industries suffer, is nil. In fact, you will get the opposite -
                      gov't agents visiting to forcefully remove your material (if yours is
                      working). The powers that be do not want free energy, much less individuals,
                      around.

                      There will be no large meteor strike to decimate this planet - it will not be
                      allowed as God has decreed "his" intention to keep this planet and as many
                      creatures upon it that can survive these times.

                      WE must envision what we want for a future and it will happen.

                      Hameltech is one piece of the pie and a very noble pursuit.

                      Sincerely,

                      /s/ Jon C. Munson II

                      >
                      >
                      > I hope that didnt come across like i am asking for money there .. I'm not
                      > .. I am stating the obvious need for the whole community, I just wish we
                      > could all be given a huge government grant to all come together in one place
                      > and put our minds together in one huge concerted effort to make things
                      > happen. I almost hope for a scenario where a meteor is truly coming towards
                      > earth and there is a dire need to get everyone to safety and all the barriers
                      > are thrown aside to us all doing this .. yet the world is so beautiful as is
                      > and I wouldnt wish that for any new tech.
                      >
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Dean McGowan
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      > From: "Dean McGowan" <dean_mcgowan@...>
                      > Reply-To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                      > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
                      > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:43:59 +1000
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I have recently come to accept that scale really does play an important role
                      > in the development of all of these technologies. Even with my own attempts
                      > and ideas that diverge from the designs methodology currently presented in
                      > the Hamel arena I am finding that getting a balanced system is extremely
                      > difficult if not improbable. Not to say I have not had encouraging results
                      > like most. But the sheer cost and might i say danger of working with large
                      > neodymium magnets is almost exclusive with my available funds. We really need
                      > an investment angel to break through here.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Dean McGowan
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      > From: "Mike" <mikefurness2002@...>
                      > Reply-To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                      > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: RE: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
                      > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:25:51 +0100
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Craig,
                      >        I only wish to comment on your previous post; most things CANNOT BE
                      > SCALED successfully without 'adjustments' and you have to be skilled to know
                      > what and how to make those 'adjustments' example, every piece of metal or
                      > substance will have a 'natural resonance, bigger is lower frequency! look AT
                      > A CHURCH ORGAN, bass pipes are maybe 16 ft long for 41 hz note, so make same
                      > small enough to put in your pocket and most notes will be outside your
                      > auditory perception, certainly harmonics will now be discordant anyway! so
                      > scale here no good;
                      >  
                      >  
                      > Take Ships and boats; why will a dingy plane on top of the water, and bigger
                      > boats not!!!!
                      >  
                      > General formulae is that for displacement craft, speed at which wave inhibits
                      > speed (prior to planing) is considered to be 1.4 times the square root of the
                      > waterline length, decreasing with size AND WEIGHT to 1.0 factor for 'Tea
                      > Clipper size' after which longer will actually go slower!!! So, without
                      > exactly knowing WHY, clippers were made to exactly the right dimensions for
                      > maximum speed to market from India!!!
                      >  
                      > A simple explanation, characteristics of water and wind remain constant, but
                      > as a sailboat increases in size, sails,( in one plane only) SQUARE in area
                      > according to size of vessel, while weight (displacement) has 3 dimensions,
                      > and thus increases as the CUBE of size, so power to weight decreases
                      > dramatically with size
                      >  
                      > Therefore 'scaling' totally inappropriate unless corrections can be
                      > understood, built in, and applied!!!
                      >  
                      > Really a general knowledge of all the facets of the world need to be known
                      > and understood more perhaps?
                      >  
                      > Mike.
                      >  
                      > Mike. J. Furness
                      >  
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: hameltech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hameltech@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
                      > Of Craig Stangland
                      > Sent: 13 July 2006 15:21
                      > To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > And HOW does Mr. Hamel KNOW his ship will work not having MADE one before?
                      >
                      > Craig
                      > =================
                      >
                      > Ole Jensen wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Mr Hamel is adamant that you need to "build big".
                      > He is working on a real sized ship, about 150 ft (50m) in
                      > diameter. there is no way he will build a small ship.
                      > He is not interested in proving anything, he already
                      > knows it will work, and he has been told to build it.
                      >
                      > Ole.
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Craig Stangland" <cwstang@...>
                      > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:50 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11113: msg from Mr Hamel
                      >
                      > I have a question. Can't these working models ever one is discussing,
                      > be built to the "SIZE" of a model instead of full scale?
                      >
                      > I recall in the movie "The Time Machine" (first one) the inventor
                      > created a small scale model. i.e. proof of concept, to which he
                      >
                      > demonstrated to his friends that he indeed could travel into the
                      > future/past.
                      >
                      > So I'm wondering why Mr. Hamel and others don't build their working
                      > models on a smaller scale. It would certainly cut costs and still prove
                      > that their idea works..
                      >
                      > Anyone have any thoughts on this?
                      >
                      > Craig
                      > =============
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • grapidx
                      See my post, 13295.
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jul 14, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        See my post, 13295.
                      • Kukulcangod
                        Positive thinking by all of us is a powerful reality changer, don t underestimate it, we are warned ,we are going to change this bad outcome togheter for a
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jul 14, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Positive thinking by all of us is a powerful reality changer, don't underestimate it, we are warned ,we are going to change this bad outcome togheter for a good one, I thing the future is going to be wonderful....Let's propose a day to experiment with this, whishing the best and whishing something like this:
                           

                          The letter reproduced here is circulating around the internet. It was allegedly received from an unknown source. No matter its origin, the question it asks is an important one, and each of us needs to consider our answer.

                          CHANGE THE WORLD! "DECIDE WHETHER WE SHOULD SHOW UP!"

                          Whoever transmitted this translated message to you is irrelevant, and should remain anonymous in your mind. It is what you will do with this message which matters ! Each one of you wishes to exercise her/his free will and experience happiness. These are attributes that were shown to us and to which we now have access. Your free will depends upon the knowledge you have of your own power. Your happiness depends upon the love that you give and receive. Like all conscious races at this stage of progress, you may feel isolated on your planet. This impression makes you sure of your destiny. Yet, you are at the brink of big upheavals that only a minority is aware of. It is not our responsibility to modify your future without you choosing it. Consider this message as a worldwide referendum! And your answer as a ballot!

                          Who are we ? Neither your scientists nor your religious representatives speak unanimously about the unexplained celestial events that mankind has witnessed for thousands of years. To know the truth, one must face it without the filter of one’s beliefs, however respectable they may be. A growing number of anonymous researchers of yours are exploring new knowledge paths and are getting very close to reality. Today, your civilization is flooded with an ocean of information of which only a tiny part, the less upsetting one, is notably diffused. What in your history seemed ridiculous or improbable has often become possible, then realized, in particular in the last fifty years. Be aware that the future will be even more surprising. You will discover the worst as well as the best.

                          Like billions others in this galaxy, we are conscious creatures that some name "extra-terrestrials," even though reality is subtler. There is no fundamental difference between you and us, save for the experience of certain stages of evolution. Like in any other organized structure, hierarchy exists in our internal relationships. Ours is based upon the wisdom of several races. It is with the approval of this hierarchy that we turn to you. Like most of you, we are in the quest of the Supreme Being. Therefore we are not gods or lesser gods but virtually your equals in the Cosmic Brotherhood.

                          Physically, we are somewhat different from you but most of us are humanoid-shaped. Our existence is a reality but the majority of you does not perceive it yet. We are not mere observations, we are consciences just like you. You fail to apprehend us because we remain invisible to your senses and instruments most of the time. We wish to fill this void at this moment in your history. We made this collective decision but this is not enough. We need yours. Through this message, you become the decision-makers ! You personally. We have no human representative on Earth who could guide your decision.

                          Why aren’t we visible ? At certain stages of evolution, cosmic "humanities" discover new forms of science beyond the apparent control of matter. Structured dematerialization and materialization are part of them. This is what your humanity has reached in a few laboratories, in close collaboration with other "extraterrestrial" creatures at the cost of hazardous compromises that remain purposely hidden from you by some of your representatives. Apart from the aerial or spatial objects or phenomena known about by your scientific community, that you call UFOs, there are essentially multidimensional manufactured spaceships that apply these capacities.

                          Many human beings have been in visual, auditory, tactile or psychic contact with such ships, some of which are under occult powers that "govern" you. The scarcity of your observations is due to the outstanding advantages provided by the dematerialized state of these ships. By not witnessing them by yourself, you cannot believe in their existence. We fully understand this. The majority of these observations are made on an individual basis so as to touch the soul and not to modify any organized system. This is deliberate from the races that surround you but for very different reasons and results.

                          For negative multidimensional beings that play a part in the exercise of power in the shadow of human oligarchy, discretion is motivated by their will to keep their existence and seizure unknown. For us, discretion is motivated by the respect of the human free will that people can exercise to manage their own affairs so that they can reach technical and spiritual maturity on their own. Humankind’s entrance into the family of galactic civilizations is greatly expected.

                          We can appear in broad daylight and help you attain this union. We haven’t done it so far, as too few of you have genuinely desired it, because of ignorance, indifference or fear, and because the situation did not justify it. Many of those who study our appearances count the lights in the night without lighting the way. Often they think in terms of objects when it is all about conscious beings.

                          Who are you ? You are the offspring of many traditions that throughout time have been mutually enriched by each others contributions. The same applies to the races at the surface of the Earth. Your goal is to unite in the respect of these roots to accomplish a common project. The appearance of your cultures seems to keep you separated because you substitute it to your deeper being. Shape is now more important than the essence of your subtle nature. For the powers in place, this prevalence of the shape constitutes the ramparts against any form of jeopardy. You are being called on to overcome shape while still respecting it for its richness and beauty. Understanding the conscience of shape makes us love men in their diversity. Peace does not mean not making war, it consists in becoming what you are in reality: a fraternity. To understand this, the number of solutions within your reach are decreasing. One of them consists in contact with another race that would reflect the image of what you are in reality.

                          What is your situation ? Except for rare occasions, our interventions always had very little incidence on your capacity to make collective and individual decisions about your own future. This is motivated by our knowledge of your deep psychological mechanisms. We reached the conclusion that freedom is built every day as a being becomes aware of himself and of his environment, getting progressively rid of constraints and inertia. Despite the numerous, brave and willing human consciences, this inertia is artificially maintained for the profit of a growing centralizing power. Until recently, mankind lived a satisfying control of its decisions. But it is losing more and more the control of its own fate because of the growing use of advanced technologies, which have lethal consequences on the earthly and human ecosystems that will become irreversible. You are slowly but surely losing your extraordinary capacity to make life desirable. Your resilience will artificially decrease, independently of your own will. Such technologies exist that affect your body as well as your mind. Such plans are on the way.

                          This can change as long as you keep this creative power in you, even if it cohabits with the dark intentions of your potential lords. This is the reason why we remain invisible. This individual power is doomed to vanish should a collective reaction of great magnitude not happen. The period to come is that of rupture, whichever it may be. But should you wait for the last moment to find solutions ? Should you anticipate or undergo pain ?

                          Your history has never ceased to be marked by encounters between peoples who had to discover one another in conditions that were often in conflict. Conquests almost always happened to the detriment of others. Earth has now become a village where everyone knows everyone else but still conflicts persist and threats of all kinds get worse in duration and intensity. Although a Human being is an individual, having many potential capacities, he cannot exercise them with dignity. This is the case for the majority of you for reasons that are essentially geopolitical. There are several billion of you. The education of your children and your living conditions, as well as the conditions of numerous animals and much plant life are nevertheless under the thumb of a small number of your political, financial, military and religious representatives. Your thoughts and beliefs are modeled after partisan interests which turn you into slaves, while at the same time giving you the feeling that you are in total control of your destiny, which in essence is the reality.

                          But there is a long way between a wish and a fact when the true rules of the game at hand are unknown. This time, you are not the conqueror. Biased information is a military strategy for human beings. Inducting thoughts, emotions or organisms that do not belong to you via ad hoc technologies is an even older a strategy. Wonderful opportunities of progress stand close to big subtle and destruction threats. These dangers and opportunities exist now. However, you can only perceive what is being shown to you.

                          The end of natural resources is programmed whereas no long- term collective project has been launched. Ecosystem exhaustion mechanisms have exceeded irreversible limits. The scarcity of resources and their unfair distribution - resources which entry price will rise day after day - will bring about fratricide fights at a large scale, but also strike at the very heart of your cities and countryside. Hatred grows bigger but so does love. That is what keeps you confident in your ability to find solutions. But the critical mass is insufficient and sabotage is cleverly being carried out. Human behaviors, formed from past habits and training, have inertia that leads you to a dead end. You entrust these problems to representatives, whose conscience of common well-being slowly fades away in front of corporate interests. They are always debating on the form but rarely on the content. Just at the moment of action, delays will accumulate to the point when you have to submit rather than choose. This is the reason why, more than ever in your history, your decisions of today will directly and significantly impact your survival of tomorrow.

                          What event could radically modify this inertia that is typical of any civilization ? Where will a collective and unifying awareness come from, that will stop this blind rushing ahead ? Tribes, populations and human nations have always encountered and interacted with one another. Faced with the threats weighing upon the human family, it is perhaps time that a greater interaction occurred. A great wave is on the verge of emerging. It mixes very positive and very negative aspects.

                          Who are the "third party?" There are two ways to establish a cosmic contact with another civilization: via its standing representatives or directly with individuals without distinction. The first way entails fights of interests, the second way brings awareness. The first way was chosen by a group of races motivated by keeping mankind in slavery, thereby controlling Earth resources, the gene pool and human emotional energy. The second way was chosen by a group of races allied with the cause of the spirit of service. We have, at our end, subscribed to this disinterested cause and introduced ourselves a few years ago to representatives of the human power who refused our outstretched hand on the pretext of incompatible interests with their strategic vision. That is why today individuals are to make this choice by themselves without any representative interfering. What we proposed in the past to those whom we believed were in a capacity to contribute to your happiness, we propose it now to you!

                          Most of you aren’t aware that non-human creatures took part in the exercise of those centralizing powers without being suspected or accessible to your senses. This is so true that they have almost very subtly taken control. They do not necessarily agree with your material plan, and that is precisely what could make them extremely efficient and frightening in the near future. However, be aware that a large number of your representatives are fighting this danger. Be aware that not all abductions are made against you.

                          It is difficult to recognize the truth. How could you under such conditions exercise your free will when it is so much manipulated ? What are you really free of ? Peace and reunification of your peoples would be a first step toward the harmony with civilizations other than yours. That is precisely what those who manipulate you behind the scenes want to avoid at all costs because, by dividing, they reign! They also reign over those who govern you. Their strength comes from their capacity to instill mistrust and fear into you. This considerably harms your very cosmic nature.

                          This message would be of no interest if these manipulators’ tutorage did not reach its peak and if their misleading and murderous plans did not materialize in a few years from now. Their deadlines are close and mankind will undergo unprecedented torments for the next ten cycles. To defend yourselves against this aggression that bears no face, you need at least to have enough information that leads to the solution. As is also the case with humans, resistance exists among those dominant races. Here again, appearance will not be enough to tell the dominator from the ally. In your current state of intuition, it is extremely difficult for you to distinguish between them. In addition to your intuition, training will be necessary when the time has come. Being aware of the priceless value of free will, we are inviting you to an alternative.

                          What can we offer ? We can offer you a more holistic vision of the universe and of life, constructive interactions, the experience of fair and fraternal relationships, liberating technical knowledge, eradication of suffering, controlled exercise of individual powers, the access to new forms of energy and, finally, a better comprehension of consciousness.

                          We cannot help you overcome your individual and collective fears, or bring you laws that you would not have chosen, or help you work on yourselves, in an individual and collective effort to build the world you desire, in the spirit of quest to explore new skies.

                          What would we receive ? Should you decide that such a contact takes place, we would rejoice over the safeguarding of fraternal equilibrium in this region of the universe, fruitful diplomatic exchanges, and the intense joy of knowing that you are united in order to accomplish what you are capable of. The feeling of joy is strongly sought in the universe, for its energy is divine.

                          What is the question we ask you ? "DO YOU WISH THAT WE SHOW UP?" How to can you answer this question ? The truth of soul can be read by telepathy. You only need to clearly ask yourself this question and give your answer as clearly, on your own or in a group, as you wish. Being in the heart of a city or in the middle of a desert does not impact the efficiency of your answer, YES or NO, IMMEDIATELY AFTER ASKING THE QUESTION! Just do it as if you were speaking to yourself but thinking about the message. This is a universal question and these mere few words, put in their context, have a powerful meaning. You should not let hesitation stand in the way.

                          This is why you should calmly think about it, in all conscience. In order to perfectly associate your answer with the question, it is recommended that you answer right after another reading of this message. Do not rush to answer. Breathe and let all the power of your own free will penetrate you. Be proud of what you are ! The problems that you have may have weaken you. Forget about them for a few minutes and be yourselves. Feel the force that springs up in you. You are in control of yourselves! A single thought, a single answer can drastically change your near future, in one way as in another. Your individual decision of asking in your inner self that we show up on your material plane and in broad daylight is precious and essential to us.

                          Even though you can choose the way that best suits you, rituals are essentially useless. A sincere request, made with your heart and your own will, will always be perceived by those of us to whom it is sent. In your own private polling booth of your secret will, you will determine the future.

                          What is the lever effect ? This decision should be made by the greatest number among you, even though it might seem like a minority. It is recommended to spread this message, in all imaginable ways, in as many languages as possible, to those around you, whether or not they seem receptive to this new vision of the future. Do it using in a humorous tone or derision if that can help you. You can even openly and publicly make fun of it if it makes you feel more comfortable, but do not be indifferent for at least you will have exercised your free will. Forget about the false prophets and the beliefs that have been transmitted to you about us. This request is one of the most intimate that can be asked to you.

                          Making a decision by yourself, as an individual, is your right as well as your responsibility! Passivity only leads to the absence of freedom. Similarly, indecision is never efficient. If you really want to cling to your beliefs, which is something that we understand, then say NO. If you do not know what to choose, do not say YES because of mere curiosity. This is not a show, this is real daily life, WE ARE ALIVE! And living! Your history has plenty of episodes when determined men and women were able to influence the thread of events in spite of their small number. Just like a small number is enough to take temporal power on Earth and influence the future of the majority, a small number of you can radically change your fate as an answer to the impotence in face of so much inertia and so many hurdles! You can ease the mankind’s birth to Brotherhood. One of your thinkers once said: "Give me a handhold and I’ll raise the Earth." Spreading this message will then be the handhold to strengthen, we will be the light-years long lever, you will be the craftsmen to raise the Earth, as a consequence of our appearance.

                          What would be the consequences of a positive decision? For us, the immediate consequence of a collective favorable decision would be the materialization of many ships, in your sky and on Earth. For you, the direct effect would be the rapid abandoning of many certitudes and beliefs. A simple conclusive visual contact would have huge repercussions on your future. Much knowledge would be modified forever. The organization of your societies would be deeply changed forever, in all fields of activity. Power would become individual because you would see for yourself that we are living.

                          Concretely, you would change the scale of your values ! The most important thing for us is that humankind would form a single family in front of this "unknown" we would represent ! Danger would slowly melt away from your homes because you would indirectly force the undesirable ones, those we name the "third party,"to show up and vanish. You would all bear the same name and share the same roots: Mankind. Later on, peaceful and respectful exchanges would be thus possible if such is your wish. For now, he who is hungry cannot smile, he who is fearful cannot welcome us. We are sad to see men, women and children suffering to such a degree in their flesh and in their hearts when they bear such an inner light. This light can be your future. Our relationships could be progressive.

                          Several stages of several years or decades would occur: demonstrative appearance of our ships, physical appearance beside human beings, collaboration in your technical and spiritual evolution, discovery of parts of the galaxy. Every time, new choices would be offered to you. You would then decide by yourself to cross new stages if you think it necessary to your external and inner well-being. No interference would be decided upon unilaterally. We would leave as soon as you would collectively wish that we do. Depending upon the speed to spread the message across the world, several weeks, or even several months will be necessary before our "great appearance," if such is the decision made by the majority of those who will have used their capacity to choose, and if this message receives the necessary support. The main difference between your daily prayers to entities of a strictly spiritual nature and your current decision is extremely simple: we are technically equipped to materialize!

                          Why such a historical dilemma ? We know that "foreigners" are considered as enemies as long as they embody the "unknown." In a first stage, the emotion that our appearance will generate will strengthen your relationships on a worldwide scale. How could you know whether our arrival is the consequence of your collective choice ? For the simple reason that we would have otherwise been already there for a long time at your level of existence. If we are not there yet, it is because you have not made such a decision explicitly. Some among you might think that we would make you believe in a deliberate choice of yours so as to legitimate our arrival, though this would not be true. What interest would we have to openly offer you what you haven’t got any access to yet, for the benefit of the greatest number of you ? How could you be certain that this is not yet another subtle maneuver of the "third party" to better enslave you ? Because one always more efficiently fights something that is identified than the contrary. Isn’t the terrorism that corrodes you a blatant example?

                          Whatever, you are the sole judge in your own heart and soul! Whatever your choice, it would be respectable and respected. In the absence of human representatives who could potentially seduce you into error, you ignore everything about us as well as from about those who manipulate you without your consent. In your situation, the precautionary principle that consists in not trying to discover us does no longer prevail. You are already in the Pandora’s box that the "third party" has created around you. Whatever your decision may be, you will have to get out of it.

                          In the face of such a dilemma, of one ignorance compared with another, you need to ask your intuition. Do you want to see us with your own eyes, or simply believe what your thinkers say? That is the real question! After thousands of years, one day, this choice was going to be inevitable: choosing between two unknowns. Why spread such a message among yourselves ? Translate and spread this message widely. This action will affect your future in an irreversible and historical way at the scale of millennia; otherwise, it will postpone a new opportunity to choose to several years later, at least one generation, if it can survive. Not choosing, stands for undergoing other peoples’ choice. Not informing others stands for running the risk of obtaining a result that is contrary to one’s expectations. Remaining indifferent means giving up one’s free will.

                          It is all about your future. It is all about your evolution. It is possible that this invitation does not receive your collective assent and that, because of a lack of information, it will be disregarded. Nevertheless no individual desire goes unheeded in the universe. Imagine our arrival tomorrow. Thousands of ships. A unique cultural shock in mankind’s history. It will then be too late to regret about not making a choice and spreading the message because this discovery will be irreversible. We do insist that you do not rush into it, but do think about it and decide!

                          The big media will not be necessarily interested in spreading this message. It is therefore your task, as an anonymous yet an extraordinary thinking and loving being, to transmit it. You are still the architects of your own fate—“DO YOU WISH THAT WE SHOW UP?"

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                        • demondoppel
                          The greatest thing that can go unchecked in learning about these physics is this: The Rush must be tempered with wisdom To gain universal knowledge about the
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jul 20, 2006
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                            The greatest thing that can go unchecked in learning about these physics
                            is this:

                            "The Rush must be tempered with wisdom"

                            To gain universal knowledge about the universe must be tempered with
                            wisdom, otherwise those in possession of such knowledge may not handle
                            the rush properly and insanity could develop. Distortion of the self to
                            bend to the knowledge, and not the knowledge bend to the individual.
                            It is the individual who must master the knowledge, not the knowledge
                            over the individual.

                            In light of things, I can fully admit, that that rush has taken me away
                            from things of normality. I recognize, now, that I must be tempered like
                            metal taken from the furnace to be strengthened by the ball peen hammer
                            and water.

                            Matt
                          • DP4
                            Matt, Agree. There s a book I read a while ago that explains this sort of thing in detail. It is a strange book, but if you are paying attention, there is Gold
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jul 30, 2006
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                              Matt,

                              Agree.

                              There's a book I read a while ago that explains this sort of thing in
                              detail. It is a strange book, but if you are paying attention, there is
                              Gold there.

                              Here's a link to it:

                              http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141371661X/sr=8-1/qid=1154320413/ref=sr_1_1/102-4118602-2597759?ie=UTF8


                              I wholeheartedly recommend it.

                              Cheers.


                              demondoppel wrote:
                              > The greatest thing that can go unchecked in learning about these physics
                              > is this:
                              >
                              > "The Rush must be tempered with wisdom"
                              >
                              > To gain universal knowledge about the universe must be tempered with
                              > wisdom, otherwise those in possession of such knowledge may not handle
                              > the rush properly and insanity could develop. Distortion of the self to
                              > bend to the knowledge, and not the knowledge bend to the individual.
                              > It is the individual who must master the knowledge, not the knowledge
                              > over the individual.
                              >
                              > In light of things, I can fully admit, that that rush has taken me away
                              > from things of normality. I recognize, now, that I must be tempered like
                              > metal taken from the furnace to be strengthened by the ball peen hammer
                              > and water.
                              >
                              > Matt
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