Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: 11112: experiment started for removing cone warp

Expand Messages
  • demondoppel
    I have emailed some drawings for the cone spinning idea. Oliver and Century metal spinning companies. And I have put some energy (work) into the cone heater
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      I have emailed some drawings for the cone spinning idea. Oliver and
      Century metal spinning companies.

      And I have put some energy (work) into the cone heater (preheating
      the cone prior to welding). I am getting an enclosure (cylinder) made
      up which will cover the cone while it has clamps on it to keep the
      skins in place prior to welding, but also have them in position while
      pre-heating). The cover will help in elevating the temp faster.

      and I have emailed some ultrasonic experts about my case. See if they
      can add some help.

      One of these should be an end result to where I need to be.

      -------------
      I would also like to submit to the group, that I am a new Dad.
      Little girl of ours has been born on Jan 21st.

      Thanks

      Matt
    • Paul
      Ref, the little girl... CONGRATULATIONS MATT..... Paul... ... and ... made ... while ... they
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 2, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Ref, the little girl...
        CONGRATULATIONS MATT.....

        Paul...




        --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel" <mattihorn@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I have emailed some drawings for the cone spinning idea. Oliver
        and
        > Century metal spinning companies.
        >
        > And I have put some energy (work) into the cone heater (preheating
        > the cone prior to welding). I am getting an enclosure (cylinder)
        made
        > up which will cover the cone while it has clamps on it to keep the
        > skins in place prior to welding, but also have them in position
        while
        > pre-heating). The cover will help in elevating the temp faster.
        >
        > and I have emailed some ultrasonic experts about my case. See if
        they
        > can add some help.
        >
        > One of these should be an end result to where I need to be.
        >
        > -------------
        > I would also like to submit to the group, that I am a new Dad.
        > Little girl of ours has been born on Jan 21st.
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > Matt
        >
      • Joe Smith
        ... Joe
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          >CONGRATULATIONS MATT.....,,,,remember it takes a MAN to be a Dad.

          Joe


          >...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel" <mattihorn@...>
          >wrote:
          > >
          > > I have emailed some drawings for the cone spinning idea. Oliver
          >and
          > > Century metal spinning companies.
          > >
          > > And I have put some energy (work) into the cone heater (preheating
          > > the cone prior to welding). I am getting an enclosure (cylinder)
          >made
          > > up which will cover the cone while it has clamps on it to keep the
          > > skins in place prior to welding, but also have them in position
          >while
          > > pre-heating). The cover will help in elevating the temp faster.
          > >
          > > and I have emailed some ultrasonic experts about my case. See if
          >they
          > > can add some help.
          > >
          > > One of these should be an end result to where I need to be.
          > >
          > > -------------
          > > I would also like to submit to the group, that I am a new Dad.
          > > Little girl of ours has been born on Jan 21st.
          > >
          > > Thanks
          > >
          > > Matt
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Header Codes
          >11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
          >11112: Building and balancing, progress
          >11113: David Hamel reports
          >11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
          >OT: "Off Topic"
          >
          >Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
          >Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • unagog@optonline.net
          Congratulations. When do you have time to even make the cones? lol. Good luck. Congratulations. When do you have time to even make the cones? lol. Good luck.
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment

            Congratulations. 

            When do you have time to even make the cones?  lol.

            Good luck.

             

          • KUKULCANGOD
            HI: Take a look at this video , it has been reported a cool breeze inside the hamel drum .....but what would it take to get to such state......and is it
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 3, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              HI:
              Take a look at this video , it has been reported a cool breeze inside
              the hamel drum .....but what would it take to get to such state......and is
              it desirable for the magnets in the hamel drum???
              In the video are we looking at a increase in magnet field strength?
              is it bismuth or carbon or graphite used for this experiment?


              http://kvikmynd.is/myndband.asp?id=1945



              Best Regards to all.
            • Mike
              Hi, An old chestnut here! its called the MEISSNER EFFECT and is a true measure of a superconductor, ie levitation in a magnetic field. Quite simple, the
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 3, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi,
                    An old chestnut here! its called the 'MEISSNER EFFECT' and is a true measure of a superconductor, ie levitation in a magnetic field.
                 
                Quite simple, the round device is a magnet, type totally unimportant, and the lump in the bottom is a 'simple' superconductor, material unimportant.
                 
                Gers right back to simple lenz's law, when a magnet approaches a conductor, current is induced to oppose that change (eddy current braking, well known example) BUT, the minute voltages generated are insufficient to drive enough current round a simple conductor, ane even if it was, destroyed by resistance in about a millisecond or 2.
                 
                However, in a superconductor a true mirror of the magnet is easily formed, and as the current flows for ever, the magnet is supported.
                 
                OK, do this with two magnets and the top one flips over rapidly, but in this instance, as soon as the magnet tries to even think of moving the counter currents immediately oppose; likewise, if you force it down, overcoming the repulsion, then it won't allow you to remove it for the same reasons!
                 
                Fascinating,
                 
                Mike.
                 
                Mike. J. Furness.
                -----Original Message-----
                From: hameltech@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hameltech@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of KUKULCANGOD
                Sent: 03 February 2006 19:43
                To: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11112: experiment started for removing cone warp

                HI:
                       Take a look at this video , it has been reported a cool breeze inside
                the hamel drum  .....but what would it take to get to such state......and is
                it desirable for the magnets in the hamel drum???
                In the video are we looking at a increase in magnet field strength?
                is it bismuth or carbon or graphite used for this experiment?


                http://kvikmynd.is/myndband.asp?id=1945



                Best Regards to all.


              • demondoppel
                I have tried pre-heating up to 400F (limitation of the portable cone oven) and I have tried cooling down to -190C (that s darn cold, and I had it up to the lip
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have tried pre-heating up to 400F (limitation of the portable cone
                  oven) and I have tried cooling down to -190C (that's darn cold, and I
                  had it up to the lip where I was welding), plus I have tried water as
                  a possible quencher of the heat during the welding process (also up
                  to the lip).
                  all these were done on a test cone and a separate large cone (for the
                  pre-heating). By the looks of things, all of them are relatively
                  showing the same amount of warping (at about 3/4 inch to 1 inch down
                  from the seam the warping stops). Therefore, this must be a factor of
                  the same for all, the heat produced by the arc itself and/or the
                  metal thickness.

                  I am planning on taking a small excursion with a slightly thicker
                  sheet metal and also a smaller welding rod (0.020 inch...using 0.04
                  inch at the moment) to see if the heat can be reduced and thus the
                  warping.

                  If the heat can be pulled away quickly or the heat going into the
                  metal is reduced by adjusting current or reducing the arc size, then
                  this warping may be lessened.

                  "Use clamps, fixtures, and strongbacks to maintain fitup and
                  alignment. "

                  This might sound like a good route too, but the cone is an obsure
                  shape, which means it won't be easy to clamp.
                  If I do something like this, I would be using my cement cones,
                  perhaps the inner cone one, and have then entire cone pushing into
                  it, while welding. But getting close to the seam in this position
                  would be a problem.


                  found this:

                  http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/distortion.a
                  sp?print=y

                  ------------------
                  Summary: A Checklist to Minimize Distortion
                  In summary, follow the checklist below in order to minimize
                  distortion in the design and fabrication of weldments:

                  Do not overweld.
                  Control fitup.
                  Use intermittent welds where possible and consistent with design
                  requirements.
                  Use the smallest leg size permissible when fillet welding.
                  For groove welds, use joints that will minimize the volume of weld
                  metal. Consider double-sided joints instead of single-sided joints.
                  Weld alternately on either side of the joint when possible with
                  multiple-pass welds.
                  Use minimal number of weld passes.
                  Use low heat input procedures. This generally means high deposition
                  rates and higher travel speeds.
                  Use welding positioners to achieve the maximum amount of flat-
                  position welding. The flat position permits the use of large-diameter
                  electrodes and high-deposition-rate welding procedures.
                  Balance welds about the neutral axis of the member.
                  Distribute the welding heat as evenly as possible through a planned
                  welding sequence and weldment positioning.
                  Weld toward the unrestrained part of the member.
                  Use clamps, fixtures, and strongbacks to maintain fitup and
                  alignment.
                  Prebend the members or preset the joints to let shrinkage pull them
                  back into alignment.
                  Sequence subassemblies and final assemblies so that the welds being
                  made continually balance each other around the neutral axis of the
                  section.
                  Following these techniques will help minimize the effects of
                  distortion and residual stresses.
                • demondoppel
                  had a couple of feelings. Retried the liquid nitrogen with 3/4 inch tack welds at a lower setting. Lowest possible setting to start pooling the metal for
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    had a couple of feelings.

                    Retried the liquid nitrogen with 3/4 inch tack welds at a lower
                    setting. Lowest possible setting to start pooling the metal for
                    welding.

                    It appears that during this tack weld, the warping did not occur.

                    So I have marked the setting on my tig welder. I am going to try
                    another cone, this time staying strictly to tack welds only 3/4 inch
                    long or under and well spaced. LN2 up to the top and maintained

                    looking into getting a y-adaptor for my argon canister so that I can
                    fill the cone with argon before welding.


                    Matt



                    --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel" <mattihorn@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have tried pre-heating up to 400F (limitation of the portable
                    cone
                    > oven) and I have tried cooling down to -190C (that's darn cold, and
                    I
                    > had it up to the lip where I was welding), plus I have tried water
                    as
                    > a possible quencher of the heat during the welding process (also up
                    > to the lip).
                    > all these were done on a test cone and a separate large cone (for
                    the
                    > pre-heating). By the looks of things, all of them are relatively
                    > showing the same amount of warping (at about 3/4 inch to 1 inch
                    down
                    > from the seam the warping stops). Therefore, this must be a factor
                    of
                    > the same for all, the heat produced by the arc itself and/or the
                    > metal thickness.
                    >
                    > I am planning on taking a small excursion with a slightly thicker
                    > sheet metal and also a smaller welding rod (0.020 inch...using 0.04
                    > inch at the moment) to see if the heat can be reduced and thus the
                    > warping.
                    >
                    > If the heat can be pulled away quickly or the heat going into the
                    > metal is reduced by adjusting current or reducing the arc size,
                    then
                    > this warping may be lessened.
                    >
                    > "Use clamps, fixtures, and strongbacks to maintain fitup and
                    > alignment. "
                    >
                    > This might sound like a good route too, but the cone is an obsure
                    > shape, which means it won't be easy to clamp.
                    > If I do something like this, I would be using my cement cones,
                    > perhaps the inner cone one, and have then entire cone pushing into
                    > it, while welding. But getting close to the seam in this position
                    > would be a problem.
                    >
                    >
                    > found this:
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/distortion.a
                    > sp?print=y
                    >
                    > ------------------
                    > Summary: A Checklist to Minimize Distortion
                    > In summary, follow the checklist below in order to minimize
                    > distortion in the design and fabrication of weldments:
                    >
                    > Do not overweld.
                    > Control fitup.
                    > Use intermittent welds where possible and consistent with design
                    > requirements.
                    > Use the smallest leg size permissible when fillet welding.
                    > For groove welds, use joints that will minimize the volume of weld
                    > metal. Consider double-sided joints instead of single-sided joints.
                    > Weld alternately on either side of the joint when possible with
                    > multiple-pass welds.
                    > Use minimal number of weld passes.
                    > Use low heat input procedures. This generally means high deposition
                    > rates and higher travel speeds.
                    > Use welding positioners to achieve the maximum amount of flat-
                    > position welding. The flat position permits the use of large-
                    diameter
                    > electrodes and high-deposition-rate welding procedures.
                    > Balance welds about the neutral axis of the member.
                    > Distribute the welding heat as evenly as possible through a planned
                    > welding sequence and weldment positioning.
                    > Weld toward the unrestrained part of the member.
                    > Use clamps, fixtures, and strongbacks to maintain fitup and
                    > alignment.
                    > Prebend the members or preset the joints to let shrinkage pull them
                    > back into alignment.
                    > Sequence subassemblies and final assemblies so that the welds being
                    > made continually balance each other around the neutral axis of the
                    > section.
                    > Following these techniques will help minimize the effects of
                    > distortion and residual stresses.
                    >
                  • Randolph D...
                    Hey Matt, What do you think of the idea of casting cones from a home made foundry? I was thinking of shaping a ceramic cast for inner and outer cones and
                    Message 9 of 22 , Feb 7, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hey Matt,

                      What do you think of the idea of casting cones from a home made foundry?
                      I was thinking of shaping a ceramic cast for inner and outer cones and
                      pouring the smolten metal into the casts using the lost wax method. The
                      only problem would be gauging thickness. I am also thinking of making a
                      solar furnace using a fresnel lens focused on a crucible where I would
                      melt some aluminum powder (or even a magnesium aluminum alloy powder
                      since it is readily available on the web). After that it's a matter of
                      sanding out the imperfections.

                      Any thoughts or experiences using these methods?

                      Randolph@...
                    • demondoppel
                      Hey Randolph Good idea, but yes there would be a guage difference in pouring out something like that. I would need a blast furnace to make molten stainless
                      Message 10 of 22 , Feb 7, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hey Randolph


                        Good idea, but yes there would be a guage difference in pouring out
                        something like that.
                        I would need a blast furnace to make molten stainless (over 1400C).
                        plus all sorts of inert gas to keep the stuff from being
                        contaminated from normal air impurities.
                        It's the air contamination into the actual metal that would be the
                        issue.
                        For both aluminum and stainless we have to work with inert gas
                        during welding to cover the metal and prevent oxides from
                        forming...so we could expect the same concern for any molten states.

                        later,
                        Matt




                        --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Randolph D..." <freeenergy@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey Matt,
                        >
                        > What do you think of the idea of casting cones from a home made
                        foundry?
                        > I was thinking of shaping a ceramic cast for inner and outer cones
                        and
                        > pouring the smolten metal into the casts using the lost wax
                        method. The
                        > only problem would be gauging thickness. I am also thinking of
                        making a
                        > solar furnace using a fresnel lens focused on a crucible where I
                        would
                        > melt some aluminum powder (or even a magnesium aluminum alloy
                        powder
                        > since it is readily available on the web). After that it's a
                        matter of
                        > sanding out the imperfections.
                        >
                        > Any thoughts or experiences using these methods?
                        >
                        > Randolph@...
                        >
                      • demondoppel
                        new tungstens bought. 0.02 thoriated They are working, as I have tested on a test cone, about 3/4 inch welds. The warping has lessened a great deal and this is
                        Message 11 of 22 , Feb 8, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          new tungstens bought.

                          0.02 thoriated

                          They are working, as I have tested on a test cone, about 3/4 inch
                          welds.
                          The warping has lessened a great deal and this is without cooling.
                          Bad salesman at BOC, bad boy! He told me, "no, it won't make any
                          difference in regard to the tungsten size". Boy is he wrong. :)

                          Duh! heat....man.....heat, the larger the tungsten the more current
                          and therefore more heat/per surface area.

                          anyways. making a new cone (I think #26), and I have done the inner
                          piece already. It was actually easier to weld! because the tungsten
                          provides less heat to the surrounding metal, so the weld was
                          performed quicker, without delays that involved peening the metal
                          butt join back together :)

                          Selection. It's all about having the right selection

                          later
                          Matt
                        • demondoppel
                          new cone built I had used the tungstens I bought. I cooled with LN2, up to the near the top lip. I have noticed a slight warp, and alot less severe than the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Feb 9, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            new cone built

                            I had used the tungstens I bought.
                            I cooled with LN2, up to the near the top lip.

                            I have noticed a slight warp, and alot less severe than the last cone
                            attempts.

                            Matt
                          • demondoppel
                            still not good enough unfortuneately. It looks like tig pulse welding is the only available option Matt
                            Message 13 of 22 , Feb 10, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              still not good enough unfortuneately.

                              It looks like tig pulse welding is the only available option

                              Matt

                              --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel" <mattihorn@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > new cone built
                              >
                              > I had used the tungstens I bought.
                              > I cooled with LN2, up to the near the top lip.
                              >
                              > I have noticed a slight warp, and alot less severe than the last cone
                              > attempts.
                              >
                              > Matt
                              >
                            • j7_911
                              New to the group... Matt, Have you tried a MIG welder (not TIG)? I used a portable MIG to weld on an entire rear quarter panel on a car I was restoring. Very
                              Message 14 of 22 , Feb 12, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                New to the group...
                                Matt,
                                Have you tried a MIG welder (not TIG)?
                                I used a portable MIG to weld on an entire rear
                                quarter panel on a car I was restoring. Very low
                                heat, as compared to all other weld methods. You just
                                shoot a small bead (tack weld), move up the seam about
                                4" and shoot another small tack weld, etc. Once those
                                cool, which didn't take long at all, I did very small
                                lengths of weld in between the tacks - maybe an inch
                                or so. Then do the same between two other tack welds.
                                After cooling I did the same, each time waiting for
                                the metal to cool, and adding incrementally more and
                                more until I was able to fill the whole length of the
                                seam.

                                Before finishing the entire panel I seem to recall
                                that I had gotten the feed/gas setting to the point
                                where I could lay down maybe 2 inches without warping.

                                I welded perhaps a total of 25 ft of welds by the time
                                it was all done. Never had a warping problem.

                                After all the welds are done, I just went back and
                                used a small disc grinder to smooth out the beads.
                                You have to go easy on this too, as it will also cause
                                warpage.

                                Just a thought. You may have already tried this.
                                Jim

                                --- demondoppel <mattihorn@...> wrote:

                                > still not good enough unfortuneately.
                                >
                                > It looks like tig pulse welding is the only
                                > available option
                                >
                                > Matt
                                >
                                > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel"
                                > <mattihorn@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > new cone built
                                > >
                                > > I had used the tungstens I bought.
                                > > I cooled with LN2, up to the near the top lip.
                                > >
                                > > I have noticed a slight warp, and alot less severe
                                > than the last cone
                                > > attempts.
                                > >
                                > > Matt
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                __________________________________________________
                                Do You Yahoo!?
                                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                http://mail.yahoo.com
                              • demondoppel
                                Jim, with Mig, we are using a filler metal to join two metal pieces together. With tig, we can use the existing metal of the pieces to join them. Filler metal,
                                Message 15 of 22 , Feb 13, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Jim,

                                  with Mig, we are using a filler metal to join two metal pieces
                                  together. With tig, we can use the existing metal of the pieces to
                                  join them. Filler metal, unfortuneately, will add to the warping
                                  issue. MIG has no real control over the current. Where as more modern
                                  and advanced TIG machines do. We can do some pretty amazing things. I
                                  have heard that some microtig machines can weld the smallest of wires
                                  in a transformer etc. Other things as well. Laser is another option.
                                  Of course, the best option is that which can obtained with relative
                                  ease and can be used on site, by hand.

                                  Matt


                                  --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, j7_911 <j7_911@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > New to the group...
                                  > Matt,
                                  > Have you tried a MIG welder (not TIG)?
                                  > I used a portable MIG to weld on an entire rear
                                  > quarter panel on a car I was restoring. Very low
                                  > heat, as compared to all other weld methods. You just
                                  > shoot a small bead (tack weld), move up the seam about
                                  > 4" and shoot another small tack weld, etc. Once those
                                  > cool, which didn't take long at all, I did very small
                                  > lengths of weld in between the tacks - maybe an inch
                                  > or so. Then do the same between two other tack welds.
                                  > After cooling I did the same, each time waiting for
                                  > the metal to cool, and adding incrementally more and
                                  > more until I was able to fill the whole length of the
                                  > seam.
                                  >
                                  > Before finishing the entire panel I seem to recall
                                  > that I had gotten the feed/gas setting to the point
                                  > where I could lay down maybe 2 inches without warping.
                                  >
                                  > I welded perhaps a total of 25 ft of welds by the time
                                  > it was all done. Never had a warping problem.
                                  >
                                  > After all the welds are done, I just went back and
                                  > used a small disc grinder to smooth out the beads.
                                  > You have to go easy on this too, as it will also cause
                                  > warpage.
                                  >
                                  > Just a thought. You may have already tried this.
                                  > Jim
                                  >
                                  > --- demondoppel <mattihorn@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > still not good enough unfortuneately.
                                  > >
                                  > > It looks like tig pulse welding is the only
                                  > > available option
                                  > >
                                  > > Matt
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel"
                                  > > <mattihorn@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > new cone built
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I had used the tungstens I bought.
                                  > > > I cooled with LN2, up to the near the top lip.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I have noticed a slight warp, and alot less severe
                                  > > than the last cone
                                  > > > attempts.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Matt
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________________
                                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                  >
                                • Anthony
                                  Matt, Thanks for the response. You are correct, MIG adds metal (via the wire feed in the presense of the gas and electricity). Theoretically speaking, your
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Feb 14, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Matt,
                                    Thanks for the response. You are correct, MIG adds metal (via the
                                    wire feed in the presense of the gas and electricity).
                                    Theoretically speaking, your argument makes sense. Practically
                                    speaking, have you actually ever TRIED it?

                                    Here's the reason I ask...
                                    1) I've done it (MIG on sheet metal). No warpage, if you take your
                                    time.
                                    2) My brother is a certified welder since 1978. His shop does a lot
                                    of sheet metal work in all materials. When I asked him 10 years ago
                                    about what to use when welding my sheet metal quarter panel, he
                                    responded MIG - and arranged the portable unit I used. When I asked
                                    him about it again within the last 2 months for outfitting my shop
                                    for sheet metal custom work, I mentioned TIG. He flatly stated MIG.

                                    That's all I know.

                                    I have researched sheet metal fabrication over the last few months
                                    in anticipation of doing some custom auto work. It seems that the
                                    preferred method for welding sheet metal in the days of Barris and
                                    Roth custom kars (50 and 60s) was: Hammer Welding. It apparently
                                    is still the same method used to join panels on Rolls Royces. I
                                    recently read a write-up on it and it seems to perhaps be the way to
                                    go. You DO have to use a torch though, with a hand-held rod, then
                                    hammer the butt-seam warpage you DO get flat with a body hammer and
                                    a dolly. Takes a very patient, very slow, artistic touch.

                                    Anyway...
                                    Yes.. MIG adds some metal.
                                    But, it also melts some at the seam while at the same time filling.
                                    You lightly and slowly grind it flat so as not add warpage.

                                    It worked for me.
                                    YMMV

                                    I'll be quiet now.
                                    Thanks for listening.
                                    Jim



                                    --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel" <mattihorn@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Jim,
                                    >
                                    > with Mig, we are using a filler metal to join two metal pieces
                                    > together. With tig, we can use the existing metal of the pieces to
                                    > join them. Filler metal, unfortuneately, will add to the warping
                                    > issue. MIG has no real control over the current. Where as more
                                    modern
                                    > and advanced TIG machines do. We can do some pretty amazing
                                    things. I
                                    > have heard that some microtig machines can weld the smallest of
                                    wires
                                    > in a transformer etc. Other things as well. Laser is another
                                    option.
                                    > Of course, the best option is that which can obtained with relative
                                    > ease and can be used on site, by hand.
                                    >
                                    > Matt
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, j7_911 <j7_911@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > New to the group...
                                    > > Matt,
                                    > > Have you tried a MIG welder (not TIG)?
                                    > > I used a portable MIG to weld on an entire rear
                                    > > quarter panel on a car I was restoring. Very low
                                    > > heat, as compared to all other weld methods. You just
                                    > > shoot a small bead (tack weld), move up the seam about
                                    > > 4" and shoot another small tack weld, etc. Once those
                                    > > cool, which didn't take long at all, I did very small
                                    > > lengths of weld in between the tacks - maybe an inch
                                    > > or so. Then do the same between two other tack welds.
                                    > > After cooling I did the same, each time waiting for
                                    > > the metal to cool, and adding incrementally more and
                                    > > more until I was able to fill the whole length of the
                                    > > seam.
                                    > >
                                    > > Before finishing the entire panel I seem to recall
                                    > > that I had gotten the feed/gas setting to the point
                                    > > where I could lay down maybe 2 inches without warping.
                                    > >
                                    > > I welded perhaps a total of 25 ft of welds by the time
                                    > > it was all done. Never had a warping problem.
                                    > >
                                    > > After all the welds are done, I just went back and
                                    > > used a small disc grinder to smooth out the beads.
                                    > > You have to go easy on this too, as it will also cause
                                    > > warpage.
                                    > >
                                    > > Just a thought. You may have already tried this.
                                    > > Jim
                                    > >
                                    > > --- demondoppel <mattihorn@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > still not good enough unfortuneately.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It looks like tig pulse welding is the only
                                    > > > available option
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Matt
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "demondoppel"
                                    > > > <mattihorn@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > new cone built
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I had used the tungstens I bought.
                                    > > > > I cooled with LN2, up to the near the top lip.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I have noticed a slight warp, and alot less severe
                                    > > > than the last cone
                                    > > > > attempts.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Matt
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > __________________________________________________
                                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.