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11112 isotope line

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  • Matt Rock
    HI: I have been looking at my project from a different perspective lately, thanks to needed rest and such...... :) Just realized to today that frame is
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 3, 2004
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      HI:

      I have been looking at my project from a different perspective
      lately, thanks to needed rest and such...... :)

      Just realized to today that frame is actually moving a little due to
      torque from the top cone movements.

      So now, I have been thinking about creating an additional frame that
      is pyramidal in shape that will reduce all frame movements hopefully
      to zero. Much of which, thanks to David Hamel, when I got see his
      WIS machines, this looked like a good idea to be used later on.
      This new frame, if it is a go, will surround the isotope line and
      basically take all slack out of the system's frame. No more swaying.

      If I decide to go ahead, I will probably be buying more aluminum
      tubing (1-1/2") and constructing the frame to tie-into the existing
      base of the isotope line.
      Tethered using aluminum pipe or rope or aluminum wire (heavy guage)
      to create the pyramid.
      45 degree angles inside the pyramid or to create the tether.
      Oversized piping to be used under the isotope line and cut short.
      Then I would be taking undersized piping (1-1/2") at about 6 feet
      long and inserting them into this new base with slightly oversized
      piping.
      Top connection points on the isotope line to be made where the pipe
      is open.
      I might decide to try building via aluminum machining, some pieces
      to put into the ends of the pipe.

      Basically, three pipes would radiate our from under the isotope line
      base. being 6 feet approx. Then I would add 3 pipes, or rope, or
      aluminum cabling that would tie the radiating pipes to the top of
      the isotope line. Connections to be made using bolts at each point
      for the aluminum pipe or eyelets for the rope/cabling.

      As I said, to reduce any swaying in the structure. My base is
      already about 20 inches wide, but the flexure is happening where the
      existing frame connects to.

      If anyone has other good ideas, I would be open and would appreciate
      any input.

      Of course, the design I'm trying is to create a heater.
      It was funny when I showed David the picture of my device last
      saturday. He immediately said 'oh a heater!'. He also told me about
      another man in New Zealand who also made a very large heater as
      well. It works apparently. So maybe this will spark some
      conversation (?).

      Matt
    • Dell Coleman
      Matt Perhaps you might consider adding a couple of additional support rings to the current setup - that should give more support without the whole pyramid
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 3, 2004
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        Matt
        Perhaps you might consider adding a couple of additional support rings
        to the current setup - that should give more support without the whole
        pyramid thing (like the one in the yard at Mr. Hamel's). A further
        suggestion might be to put it back in the 45 gal drum if it was ever
        designed to fit one.

        I still think the key to these things is that the cones must be able to
        fall and that means they cant be magnetically pinned.
        I've said this stuff before so I wont elaborate here.

        About heaters, did Mr. Hamel show you the pictures of the 45 gal version
        glowing in the drum? He says he took the pictures with infra red film.
        I used to use the stuff occasionally in my Environment Canada days - we
        could pick out the maple sugar shacks in dense woodlots when we flew
        photography in the early spring ...

        I've been thinking about building an upside down version of the drum
        configuration - the three current cones stack on top of each other
        upside down with magnet rings like currently. The point on the upper
        cone is extended to take a rejection magnet.
        That arrangement is like the current top, so the top rejection would
        screw down to the magnet attached to the extension on the top cone.
        Below the three upside down cones there would be another cone as a
        support base. It wouldnt have any magnets at all and wouldnt need to be
        as precise (but could be).

        The notion here is that the top end arrangement is like the WIS machine
        in Mr Hamels yard and the rejection magnets perform the same function
        (the same as in the gate). The upside down cones are forced to move and
        are pushed back by the ring magnets. The bottom functioning is more the
        the saucer wing arrangement but the whole thing is easier to balance and
        make work because you dont have to get "the falling into the magnetic
        field" right or as you folks often put it - trying to get the green line
        right so that there is wobble.

        Anyway, just some thoughts - the upside down drum I've played with a bit
        in a mini version but havent had time to really get far with it.

        Cheers

        Dell

        Matt Rock wrote:

        >
        > HI:
        >
        > I have been looking at my project from a different perspective
        > lately, thanks to needed rest and such...... :)
        >
        > Just realized to today that frame is actually moving a little due to
        > torque from the top cone movements.
        >
        > So now, I have been thinking about creating an additional frame that
        > is pyramidal in shape that will reduce all frame movements hopefully
        > to zero. Much of which, thanks to David Hamel, when I got see his
        > WIS machines, this looked like a good idea to be used later on.
        > This new frame, if it is a go, will surround the isotope line and
        > basically take all slack out of the system's frame. No more swaying.
        >
        > If I decide to go ahead, I will probably be buying more aluminum
        > tubing (1-1/2") and constructing the frame to tie-into the existing
        > base of the isotope line.
        > Tethered using aluminum pipe or rope or aluminum wire (heavy guage)
        > to create the pyramid.
        > 45 degree angles inside the pyramid or to create the tether.
        > Oversized piping to be used under the isotope line and cut short.
        > Then I would be taking undersized piping (1-1/2") at about 6 feet
        > long and inserting them into this new base with slightly oversized
        > piping.
        > Top connection points on the isotope line to be made where the pipe
        > is open.
        > I might decide to try building via aluminum machining, some pieces
        > to put into the ends of the pipe.
        >
        > Basically, three pipes would radiate our from under the isotope line
        > base. being 6 feet approx. Then I would add 3 pipes, or rope, or
        > aluminum cabling that would tie the radiating pipes to the top of
        > the isotope line. Connections to be made using bolts at each point
        > for the aluminum pipe or eyelets for the rope/cabling.
        >
        > As I said, to reduce any swaying in the structure. My base is
        > already about 20 inches wide, but the flexure is happening where the
        > existing frame connects to.
        >
        > If anyone has other good ideas, I would be open and would appreciate
        > any input.
        >
        > Of course, the design I'm trying is to create a heater.
        > It was funny when I showed David the picture of my device last
        > saturday. He immediately said 'oh a heater!'. He also told me about
        > another man in New Zealand who also made a very large heater as
        > well. It works apparently. So maybe this will spark some
        > conversation (?).
        >
        > Matt
        >
        >
        >
      • Matt Rock
        Hi Dell, actually it is the base of the frame which is moving or flexing. I had thought about additional support rings, but then I noticed that even though
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 4, 2004
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          Hi Dell,

          actually it is the base of the frame which is moving or flexing. I
          had thought about additional support rings, but then I noticed that
          even though things are tied in quite rigid now it still tends to
          sway at the base. Flexing occuring where the rings are on the base.

          I spent about 2 hours finding a good way to eliminate the swaying,
          so I might go ahead with an idea. Not as hard as I thought, just
          some fancy work for an afternoon or so.

          No, I never saw the infrared photos, it was my first visit, and I
          think they were too busy working on the WIS device at the time. Much
          to take in already of course on one visit.

          Thanks,

          Matt

          --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Dell Coleman <decoleman@p...>
          wrote:
          > Matt
          > Perhaps you might consider adding a couple of additional support
          rings
          > to the current setup - that should give more support without the
          whole
          > pyramid thing (like the one in the yard at Mr. Hamel's). A
          further
          > suggestion might be to put it back in the 45 gal drum if it was
          ever
          > designed to fit one.
          >
          > I still think the key to these things is that the cones must be
          able to
          > fall and that means they cant be magnetically pinned.
          > I've said this stuff before so I wont elaborate here.
          >
          > About heaters, did Mr. Hamel show you the pictures of the 45 gal
          version
          > glowing in the drum? He says he took the pictures with infra red
          film.
          > I used to use the stuff occasionally in my Environment Canada
          days - we
          > could pick out the maple sugar shacks in dense woodlots when we
          flew
          > photography in the early spring ...
          >
          > I've been thinking about building an upside down version of the
          drum
          > configuration - the three current cones stack on top of each other
          > upside down with magnet rings like currently. The point on the
          upper
          > cone is extended to take a rejection magnet.
          > That arrangement is like the current top, so the top rejection
          would
          > screw down to the magnet attached to the extension on the top
          cone.
          > Below the three upside down cones there would be another cone as
          a
          > support base. It wouldnt have any magnets at all and wouldnt need
          to be
          > as precise (but could be).
          >
          > The notion here is that the top end arrangement is like the WIS
          machine
          > in Mr Hamels yard and the rejection magnets perform the same
          function
          > (the same as in the gate). The upside down cones are forced to
          move and
          > are pushed back by the ring magnets. The bottom functioning is
          more the
          > the saucer wing arrangement but the whole thing is easier to
          balance and
          > make work because you dont have to get "the falling into the
          magnetic
          > field" right or as you folks often put it - trying to get the
          green line
          > right so that there is wobble.
          >
          > Anyway, just some thoughts - the upside down drum I've played with
          a bit
          > in a mini version but havent had time to really get far with it.
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          > Dell
          >
          > Matt Rock wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > HI:
          > >
          > > I have been looking at my project from a different perspective
          > > lately, thanks to needed rest and such...... :)
          > >
          > > Just realized to today that frame is actually moving a little
          due to
          > > torque from the top cone movements.
          > >
          > > So now, I have been thinking about creating an additional frame
          that
          > > is pyramidal in shape that will reduce all frame movements
          hopefully
          > > to zero. Much of which, thanks to David Hamel, when I got see his
          > > WIS machines, this looked like a good idea to be used later on.
          > > This new frame, if it is a go, will surround the isotope line and
          > > basically take all slack out of the system's frame. No more
          swaying.
          > >
          > > If I decide to go ahead, I will probably be buying more aluminum
          > > tubing (1-1/2") and constructing the frame to tie-into the
          existing
          > > base of the isotope line.
          > > Tethered using aluminum pipe or rope or aluminum wire (heavy
          guage)
          > > to create the pyramid.
          > > 45 degree angles inside the pyramid or to create the tether.
          > > Oversized piping to be used under the isotope line and cut short.
          > > Then I would be taking undersized piping (1-1/2") at about 6 feet
          > > long and inserting them into this new base with slightly
          oversized
          > > piping.
          > > Top connection points on the isotope line to be made where the
          pipe
          > > is open.
          > > I might decide to try building via aluminum machining, some
          pieces
          > > to put into the ends of the pipe.
          > >
          > > Basically, three pipes would radiate our from under the isotope
          line
          > > base. being 6 feet approx. Then I would add 3 pipes, or rope, or
          > > aluminum cabling that would tie the radiating pipes to the top of
          > > the isotope line. Connections to be made using bolts at each
          point
          > > for the aluminum pipe or eyelets for the rope/cabling.
          > >
          > > As I said, to reduce any swaying in the structure. My base is
          > > already about 20 inches wide, but the flexure is happening where
          the
          > > existing frame connects to.
          > >
          > > If anyone has other good ideas, I would be open and would
          appreciate
          > > any input.
          > >
          > > Of course, the design I'm trying is to create a heater.
          > > It was funny when I showed David the picture of my device last
          > > saturday. He immediately said 'oh a heater!'. He also told me
          about
          > > another man in New Zealand who also made a very large heater as
          > > well. It works apparently. So maybe this will spark some
          > > conversation (?).
          > >
          > > Matt
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • Dell Coleman
          Hi Matt, There were several pictures all oriented in a vertical fashion to show the height of the drum. Your can see the form of the drum, and inside it you
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 4, 2004
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            Hi Matt,

            There were several pictures all oriented in a vertical fashion to show the height of the drum. Your can see the form of the drum, and inside it you can see what look like three large orange pearls positioned vertically.

            The orange glows are heat of the cones in action -- it could be that a decent photogrammetrist could figure out the temperature of the cones given the orange tone and the spectral characteristics of the film, the thickness of the drum wall etc.

            Glad you found a solution for the support stand.

            Dell

            Matt Rock wrote:

            Hi Dell,

            actually it is the base of the frame which is moving or flexing. I
            had thought about additional support rings, but then I noticed that
            even though things are tied in quite rigid now it still tends to
            sway at the base. Flexing occuring where the rings are on the base.

            I spent about 2 hours finding a good way to eliminate the swaying,
            so I might go ahead with an idea. Not as hard as I thought, just
            some fancy work for an afternoon or so.

            No, I never saw the infrared photos, it was my first visit, and I
            think they were too busy working on the WIS device at the time. Much
            to take in already of course on one visit.

            Thanks,

            Matt


          • Matt Rock
            Hi Dell, thanks for the info. Been out shopping or looking for ideas to build this frame. I have a few good ideas, just need to scrounge the materials. So I ve
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 4, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Dell,

              thanks for the info.
              Been out shopping or looking for ideas to build this frame.
              I have a few good ideas, just need to scrounge the materials. So I've
              been looking.
              I think I am going to go for a frame which will connect directly to
              the top of the isotope line and then form a pyramid, with the base
              rods/pipes/tubing connecting to the base. It should work.

              I gave some thought to your colours of the machine while running.
              did some quick job on the internet. found this:
              http://www.squ1.com/index.php?http://www.squ1.com/concepts/color-
              temperature.html

              there is a graph which might draw an actual temperature. I guessimate
              around 1500 Kelvin or 1227 celsius. If that's true, then this sucker
              definitely gets hot! probably away from the magnets though, and there
              is probably rapid cooling near the magnets in order to sustain them
              and keep them from doing the 'curie temp' reversal.
              If I'm right, just like the Sun, it's upper layers experience this
              huge temperature increase, then perhaps this effect is being seen on
              the isotope line. Just a thought.

              Matt

              --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Dell Coleman <decoleman@p...> wrote:
              > Hi Matt,
              >
              > There were several pictures all oriented in a vertical fashion to
              show
              > the height of the drum. Your can see the form of the drum, and
              inside it
              > you can see what look like three large orange pearls positioned
              vertically.
              >
              > The orange glows are heat of the cones in action -- it could be
              that a
              > decent photogrammetrist could figure out the temperature of the
              cones
              > given the orange tone and the spectral characteristics of the film,
              the
              > thickness of the drum wall etc.
              >
              > Glad you found a solution for the support stand.
              >
              > Dell
              >
              > Matt Rock wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Hi Dell,
              > >
              > > actually it is the base of the frame which is moving or flexing. I
              > > had thought about additional support rings, but then I noticed
              that
              > > even though things are tied in quite rigid now it still tends to
              > > sway at the base. Flexing occuring where the rings are on the
              base.
              > >
              > > I spent about 2 hours finding a good way to eliminate the swaying,
              > > so I might go ahead with an idea. Not as hard as I thought, just
              > > some fancy work for an afternoon or so.
              > >
              > > No, I never saw the infrared photos, it was my first visit, and I
              > > think they were too busy working on the WIS device at the time.
              Much
              > > to take in already of course on one visit.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Matt
              > >
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