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Re: 11112 whole system progress

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  • Matt Rock
    Hi Ali, to answer: 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little differences
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 30 10:09 PM
      Hi Ali,

      to answer:

      1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
      when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little differences
      noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
      magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
      this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
      levelled vertically.
      2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference as
      you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up. I
      have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
      the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are spinning.
      of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
      apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
      magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
      vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so forth.

      Matt

      --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ali Bali Gumba"
      <ali_bali_gumba@y...> wrote:
      > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...>
      wrote:
      > I think you are making great progress but I have some questions:
      >
      > 1. Does the stack of cones without the top rejection magnet stack
      > straight without touching?
      >
      > 2. Can you turn the cones by hand and have them rotate without
      > excessive wobbling and touching the sides (without the top
      rejection
      > magnet)?
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Ali
    • Ali Bali Gumba
      Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the forces are radially
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
        Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying
        to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the
        forces are radially symmetric, being used to center the cones and
        prevent them from contacting the sides of the rings. What, in your
        estimation would be a source of tangental force. In other words a
        force that would cause the cones to rotate.

        If you think of the cones as suspended by magnetic springs from the
        rings it would be mechanically unstable if you put a force down on the
        stack with the rejector magnet. With enough down force the cones would
        be forced sideways because they can never be perfectly alligned in the
        vertical direction. This must be the reason that the rejector magnet
        forced the cones to contact the rings. This means that the rejector
        magnet's forces need to be reduced to a point that the cones are not
        forced from nearly vertical.

        Perhaps the rejector magnet should be an attractor magnet to aid in
        the centering process?

        Have you considered the use of a rotating magnetic field to induce
        eddy currents in the cones and get them to rotate? An addition of
        several magnets mounted inside the cones would be able to send
        magnetic force through the aluminum and then be able to induce current
        in coils mounted on the frame. This would be a way of extracting power
        from the cone rotation, like an automotive alternator and also be
        another way of getting the cones to rotate initially.

        Another thought would be to paint or draw sacred symbols on the sides
        of the cones. The sacred symbols should be those that extract energy
        from the zero point vaccuum and guide them in a circular direction.

        Ali


        --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...> wrote:
        > Hi Ali,
        >
        > to answer:
        >
        > 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
        > when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little differences
        > noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
        > magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
        > this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
        > levelled vertically.
        > 2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference as
        > you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up. I
        > have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
        > the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are spinning.
        > of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
        > apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
        > magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
        > vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so forth.
        >
        > Matt
        >
      • Val Gruno
        Ali Bali Gumba , You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not supposed to rotate. They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004


          Ali Bali Gumba ,
           
          You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not supposed to rotate.
          They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to get this in your head.
          Wobble yes rotate no.
           
          Val


          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
        • Ali Bali Gumba
          ... supposed to rotate. ... in your head. ... What makes them wobble? I could imagine that a transient force would start them wobbling but eventually they
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
            --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Val Gruno <vgruno2000@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Ali Bali Gumba ,
            >
            > You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not
            supposed to rotate.
            > They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to get this
            in your head.
            > Wobble yes rotate no.
            >
            > Val
            >

            What makes them wobble? I could imagine that a transient force would
            start them wobbling but eventually they would stop. Is this what you
            have been seeing?

            Ali
          • Matt Rock
            Thankyou Ali, I will try to answer your questions based upon my somewhat limited experience and knowledge. ... firstly, the cones should not rotate, although
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
              Thankyou Ali,

              I will try to answer your questions based upon my somewhat limited
              experience and knowledge.

              **************************************************
              > Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying
              > to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the
              > forces are radially symmetric, being used to center the cones and
              > prevent them from contacting the sides of the rings. What, in your
              > estimation would be a source of tangental force. In other words a
              > force that would cause the cones to rotate.
              ------------------------------------------------
              firstly, the cones should not rotate, although there may be a slow
              rotation at full vibration of the mechanism. Although I haven't seen
              this is I have heard that the rotation will match the earth's
              magnetic field or be a lower order of the period depending on
              latitude and vicinity. Perhaps a diamagnetic region will give
              different results.

              *****************************************************
              > If you think of the cones as suspended by magnetic springs from the
              > rings it would be mechanically unstable if you put a force down on
              the
              > stack with the rejector magnet. With enough down force the cones
              would
              > be forced sideways because they can never be perfectly alligned in
              the
              > vertical direction. This must be the reason that the rejector magnet
              > forced the cones to contact the rings. This means that the rejector
              > magnet's forces need to be reduced to a point that the cones are not
              > forced from nearly vertical.
              -----------------------------
              That sounds very logical and well thought out, Ali.
              But the top rejection will not entirely try to force the entire cone
              stack downward, perhaps partially. mainly it is to create a push-pull
              effect between both top rejection mangets. Basically, the lower
              magnet affixed to the cone will be forced to move or tilt in regards
              to the fixed top magnet. In my case, I was demanding the top
              rejection magnets to come too close to one another. This forced the
              top cone to meander off to the side, and stay in that position until
              I removed the magnet out of the repulsion. The idea, I believe is to
              sort of gently apply this repulsion only slightly, yet enough to
              cause a bouncing.
              >
              ****************************************
              > Perhaps the rejector magnet should be an attractor magnet to aid in
              > the centering process?
              ----------------------------
              I don't believe so. I did a visualization once, and it sort of makes
              sense. If you visual the cones being as one unit and then contain
              this single unit in a magnetic repulsion containment and then apply
              this similar repulsion to the top and bottom of the unit, you will
              see a sort of arrangement whereas the unit is made to be free of
              frictional forces.
              If the top rejection magnets were in attraction, you would actually
              be coaxing the top cone to lift up out of the balancing required. In
              a sense you would also weaken the response in the other cones, since
              the pressure of touch would be reduced somewhat from the attraction.

              ********************************
              > Have you considered the use of a rotating magnetic field to induce
              > eddy currents in the cones and get them to rotate?
              -------------------------
              No consistant rotation is required. eddy currents I think will evolve
              as the device is running. Yet these currents will be different in
              nature from the electrical eddy currents of a transformer, since no
              real ground plane is involved in this device. More like accumulations
              of plasma or ionic flow. Surges.

              **********************
              An addition of
              > several magnets mounted inside the cones would be able to send
              > magnetic force through the aluminum and then be able to induce
              current
              > in coils mounted on the frame. This would be a way of extracting
              power
              > from the cone rotation, like an automotive alternator and also be
              > another way of getting the cones to rotate initially.
              ------------------
              One thing is for sure in what must be known, is that device will
              create an epicentre for this accumulation of energy. That would be
              the best place to gather the energy. I believe people here have
              remarked it being at the oscillator table or between the plates of
              the table. You must realize, and I think I am right, that the sacred
              Egyptian Anke is describing this accumulation or force field of the
              device. Like a tear drop this Anke is. The 'bow' of the forcefield
              being at the upper most of the device and the narrow being at the
              bottom where the oscillator table is. Point of definition it would
              seem to be, no? tap at the point of definition.

              ********************************
              > Another thought would be to paint or draw sacred symbols on the
              sides
              > of the cones. The sacred symbols should be those that extract energy
              > from the zero point vaccuum and guide them in a circular direction.
              --------------------------------
              Seriously, haha, well....errr......
              Well, I can say that symbols do have metaphysical meaning and may in
              fact induce healing in people in this manner, like encoding water for
              instance to carry this imprint. But as far as the device is concerned
              this is not really a necessary requirement. The device's geometry
              encompassed within the cones, is what will provide the access to
              unlimited energy. Since the the geometry is King with the magnetism.

              ***********
              Matt
              ************
              >
              > Ali
              >
              >
              > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...>
              wrote:
              > > Hi Ali,
              > >
              > > to answer:
              > >
              > > 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
              > > when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little
              differences
              > > noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
              > > magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
              > > this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
              > > levelled vertically.
              > > 2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference
              as
              > > you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up.
              I
              > > have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
              > > the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are
              spinning.
              > > of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
              > > apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
              > > magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
              > > vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so
              forth.
              > >
              > > Matt
              > >
            • Dell Coleman
              Here s my kick at it --- The principle is simple, the practice is not that easy Three triangular cones sit on top of one another -- they will tend to fall over
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
                Here's my kick at it ---

                The principle is simple, the practice is not that easy

                Three triangular cones sit on top of one another -- they will tend to fall over

                To stop the fall,  3 pairs of magnetic rings are attached to the rims so they repel each other

                When the cone falls, the magnet pushes it back

                As the cone moves, other cones are forced to move

                Their magnets push back There is a movable base that helps the bottom cone to move.

                The object of the falling and pushing is to obtain a stable disequilibrium in which
                the cones wobble (fall continuously)

                Almost all of David Hamel's devices use the principle of dynamic disequilibrium to
                achieve what may be called mechanical perpetual motion

                Other examples of dynamic disequilibrium can be seen in the mathematical field of
                chaotic attractors as outlined over the last 20 years

                DC

                Matt Rock wrote:
                Thankyou Ali,

                I will try to answer your questions based upon my somewhat limited
                experience and knowledge.

                **************************************************
                > Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying
                > to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the
                > forces are radially symmetric, being used to center the cones and
                > prevent them from contacting the sides of the rings. What, in your
                > estimation would be a source of tangental force. In other words a
                > force that would cause the cones to rotate.
                ------------------------------------------------
                firstly, the cones should not rotate, although there may be a slow
                rotation at full vibration of the mechanism. Although I haven't seen
                this is I have heard that the rotation will match the earth's
                magnetic field or be a lower order of the period depending on
                latitude and vicinity. Perhaps a diamagnetic region will give
                different results.

                *****************************************************
                > If you think of the cones as suspended by magnetic springs from the
                > rings it would be mechanically unstable if you put a force down on
                the
                > stack with the rejector magnet. With enough down force the cones
                would
                > be forced sideways because they can never be perfectly alligned in
                the
                > vertical direction. This must be the reason that the rejector magnet
                > forced the cones to contact the rings. This means that the rejector
                > magnet's forces need to be reduced to a point that the cones are not
                > forced from nearly vertical.
                -----------------------------
                That sounds very logical and well thought out, Ali.
                But the top rejection will not entirely try to force the entire cone
                stack downward, perhaps partially. mainly it is to create a push-pull
                effect between both top rejection mangets. Basically, the lower
                magnet affixed to the cone will be forced to move or tilt in regards
                to the fixed top magnet. In my case, I was demanding the top
                rejection magnets to come too close to one another. This forced the
                top cone to meander off to the side, and stay in that position until
                I removed the magnet out of the repulsion. The idea, I believe is to
                sort of gently apply this repulsion only slightly, yet enough to
                cause a bouncing.
                >
                ****************************************
                > Perhaps the rejector magnet should be an attractor magnet to aid in
                > the centering process?
                ----------------------------
                I don't believe so. I did a visualization once, and it sort of makes
                sense. If you visual the cones being as one unit and then contain
                this single unit in a magnetic repulsion containment and then apply
                this similar repulsion to the top and bottom of the unit, you will
                see a sort of arrangement whereas the unit is made to be free of
                frictional forces.
                If the top rejection magnets were in attraction, you would actually
                be coaxing the top cone to lift up out of the balancing required. In
                a sense you would also weaken the response in the other cones, since
                the pressure of touch would be reduced somewhat from the attraction.

                ********************************
                > Have you considered the use of a rotating magnetic field to induce
                > eddy currents in the cones and get them to rotate?
                -------------------------
                No consistant rotation is required. eddy currents I think will evolve
                as the device is running. Yet these currents will be different in
                nature from the electrical eddy currents of a transformer, since no
                real ground plane is involved in this device. More like accumulations
                of plasma or ionic flow. Surges.

                **********************
                An addition of
                > several magnets mounted inside the cones would be able to send
                > magnetic force through the aluminum and then be able to induce
                current
                > in coils mounted on the frame. This would be a way of extracting
                power
                > from the cone rotation, like an automotive alternator and also be
                > another way of getting the cones to rotate initially.
                ------------------
                One thing is for sure in what must be known, is that device will
                create an epicentre for this accumulation of energy. That would be
                the best place to gather the energy. I believe people here have
                remarked it being at the oscillator table or between the plates of
                the table. You must realize, and I think I am right, that the sacred
                Egyptian Anke is describing this accumulation or force field of the
                device. Like a tear drop this Anke is. The 'bow' of the forcefield
                being at the upper most of the device and the narrow being at the
                bottom where the oscillator table is. Point of definition it would
                seem to be, no? tap at the point of definition.

                ********************************
                > Another thought would be to paint or draw sacred symbols on the
                sides
                > of the cones. The sacred symbols should be those that extract energy
                > from the zero point vaccuum and guide them in a circular direction.
                --------------------------------
                Seriously, haha, well....errr......
                Well, I can say that symbols do have metaphysical meaning and may in
                fact induce healing in people in this manner, like encoding water for
                instance to carry this imprint. But as far as the device is concerned
                this is not really a necessary requirement. The device's geometry
                encompassed within the cones, is what will provide the access to
                unlimited energy. Since the the geometry is King with the magnetism.

                ***********
                Matt
                ************
                >
                > Ali
                >
                >
                > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...>
                wrote:
                > > Hi Ali,
                > >
                > > to answer:
                > >
                > > 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
                > > when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little
                differences
                > > noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
                > > magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
                > > this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
                > > levelled vertically.
                > > 2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference
                as
                > > you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up.
                I
                > > have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
                > > the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are
                spinning.
                > > of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
                > > apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
                > > magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
                > > vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so
                forth.
                > >
                > > Matt
                > >



                Header Codes
                11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                11112: Building and balancing, progress
                11113: David Hamel reports
                11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                OT: "Off Topic"

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              • Matt Rock
                Another way of looking at is symmetry breaking . At rest, the cones are all symmetrical to a common axis, or z axis. Then by your disequilibrium, the cones
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
                  Another way of looking at is 'symmetry breaking'.
                  At rest, the cones are all symmetrical to a common axis, or 'z' axis.
                  Then by your disequilibrium, the cones break symmetry continuously n
                  the 'y' and 'x' axis.

                  but there's probably all sorts of other things to consider as well,
                  as things get rolling.

                  Matt
                • kukulcangod2003/mail.optonline.net
                  Ali : One thing I can tell you ,the weight into speed concept suppose to overcome magnetic lock up..an example of this is the motor created by the Japanese
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
                    Ali :
                            One thing I can tell you ,the weight  into speed concept suppose to overcome magnetic lock up..an example of this is the motor created by the Japanese inventor Kohei Minato:
                     
                    i'm after something of the likes...you are not far when looking for Tangential impulse....so that, I think would explain the application in the Hamel drum...to keep the vibration\wobling or resonance effect(up and down) going like in the ladder at the Jersey city liberty science center, obviously this effect is of such nature that not many of us had been able to achieve this balance of forces....once the initial impulse is embraced by the cones the imbalance cause by the magnetic field presure suposed to keep it going.,many things hapen at same time just like in nature.....vibration almost imperceptible is being said to cause the accumulation of plasma...vibration some other researchers say like grebenikov victor to whom the physical form of the cavity was of the most importance to disrupt gravity......perhaps a la Victor schauberger in the way of releasing the ions which cause things to levitate.....somewhere in the Hameltech archives this ion negative acumulation effect is mentioned.....the rims acting as diode ripping off  or dividing the atoms of air to acumulate  plasma....after all, to avoid the balance of this ions ..we have to avoid that the drum touches the ground.... .and it seems to me that Hutchison in Vancouver...using radio waves confirms this, if he really achieved antigravity with his many radio frequencies combinations...not to mention Edward Leskalnin....I even recall  in the book "The Third Eye" from Lobsang Rampa ,the mention of the monks using sound to cause antigravity...to levitate stones...but what is the right frequency?? ...Kukulcan
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 11:41 PM
                    Subject: [hameltech] Re: 11112 whole system progress

                    --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Val Gruno <vgruno2000@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Ali Bali Gumba ,

                    > You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not
                    supposed to rotate.
                    > They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to get this
                    in your head.
                    > Wobble yes rotate no.

                    > Val
                    >

                    What makes them wobble? I could imagine that a transient force would
                    start them wobbling but eventually they would stop. Is this what you
                    have been seeing?

                    Ali



                    Header Codes
                    11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                    11112: Building and balancing, progress
                    11113: David Hamel reports
                    11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                    OT: "Off Topic"

                    Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com



                  • kukulcangod2003/mail.optonline.net
                    Now: How about this to make this drum levitate?? http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm do you think guys this is really working???....I don t know but he put
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
                      Now:
                                 How about this to make this drum levitate??
                                        http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm
                       
                      do you think guys this is really working???....I don't know but he put my own discovery at its best use...I feel dissapointed and happy...i was about to get there with my tangential magnetic impulse..the angle is important.....it creates torque....it means I can finally power that much needed air conditioner for my mom avoiding high costs of power ....Let's keep movin'...Kukulcan
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Matt Rock
                      Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:00 AM
                      Subject: [hameltech] Re: 11112 whole system progress

                      Another way of looking at is 'symmetry breaking'.
                      At rest, the cones are all symmetrical to a common axis, or 'z' axis.
                      Then by your disequilibrium, the cones break symmetry continuously n
                      the 'y' and 'x' axis.

                      but there's probably all sorts of other things to consider as well,
                      as things get rolling.

                      Matt



                      Header Codes
                      11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                      11112: Building and balancing, progress
                      11113: David Hamel reports
                      11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                      OT: "Off Topic"

                      Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                      Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com



                    • Steven Dufresne
                      ... Ali, You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from. The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and the magnets that repel
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
                        Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
                        > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Dell Coleman <decoleman@p...> wrote:
                        >
                        > What is the energy source in the Hameltonian cone experiment that
                        > would cause this chaotic action?

                        Ali,
                        You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
                        The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
                        the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this information
                        in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
                        -Steve

                        From: Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...>
                        Date: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:41 am
                        Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11112 Cone progress +plus

                        ADVERTISEMENT
                        Hi Ali,

                        Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
                        > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...> wrote:
                        <snip>
                        > PS I still don't get it, can somebody explain how its supposed to work?

                        Here's what David tried to get through my thick skull. I'm going to
                        make use of some definitions that John Pasley posted back in
                        Nov 19, 2002 under the heading "[hameltech] Some definitions" since
                        he was careful to write down the words David was saying whereas I
                        didn't.

                        First some of John's definitions (which are as close to what David
                        tells me as far as I can recall - good job John!)...

                        The Other Side - A twin solar system in a dimension we cant see. It
                        occupies the same/similar space as our own.

                        The Zero Point - the point where energy is transferred from one side
                        to the other. Where 'neutrinos' pass through. It is at a 'nano hole'.

                        Isotope line - the line of change. After the neutrino/nano comes
                        through from the other side, this is the line it takes, like a
                        tornado from the bottom to the top.

                        Nano - (same as Neutrino) - the small energetic particle that can go
                        anywhere (all dimensions), between 'this side' and 'the other side'
                        and the 'ether'. This is what causes the vibration and gives excess
                        energy from our point of view. The small (about atomic level)
                        particle where the energy extraction takes place.

                        Nano Hole - The pathway a nano takes when it moves between
                        dimensions, a different hole type is needed for the different nano
                        types, white or black.

                        Ether - Where the neutrino/nano comes from. Another dimension other
                        than our own or the balancing 'other side'. A dimension where the
                        spirit is during astral travel. (I need to add this is nothing to do
                        with a medium for light or gravity to travel through). The sea of
                        energy.

                        The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point exists
                        between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the cones
                        wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.

                        -Steve
                      • Ali Bali Gumba
                        ... mathematical field of chaotic attractors as outlined over the last 20 years. In all the chaotic systems that were looked at using the lorenz equation
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
                          --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Dell Coleman <decoleman@p...> wrote:
                          >Other examples of dynamic disequilibrium can be seen in the
                          mathematical field of chaotic attractors as outlined over the last 20
                          years.

                          In all the chaotic systems that were looked at using the lorenz
                          equation simulated on a computer there was a constant flow of energy
                          that powered the device or its simulation.

                          A simple model is the dripping of a faucet. As the flow is increased
                          the drips get faster and faster untill they switch from a constant
                          rate to a chaotic rate. But there has to be a flow.

                          What is the energy source in the Hameltonian cone experiment that
                          would cause this chaotic action?

                          Ali
                        • Ali Bali Gumba
                          ... How about this to make this drum levitate?? ... These two devices look almost exactly like each other and yet the designers claim different modes of
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
                            --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "kukulcangod2003/mail.optonline.net"
                            <kukulcangod2003@o...> wrote:
                            > Ali :
                            Kohei Minato:
                            > http://www.japan.com/technology/index.php
                            >
                            How about this to make this drum levitate??
                            > http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm

                            These two devices look almost exactly like each other and yet the
                            designers claim different modes of operation.

                            Ali
                          • Ali Bali Gumba
                            ... exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there. ... Can I interpret
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
                              --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...> wrote:

                              > Ali,
                              > You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
                              > The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
                              > the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this information
                              > in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
                              > -Steve
                              >......
                              >
                              > The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
                              exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
                              cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
                              >
                              > -Steve

                              Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
                              extracting scructures?

                              Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
                              take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
                              gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
                              adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.

                              If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a ring,
                              then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the above
                              stategy.

                              Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.

                              Comments please, I am trying to understand these ideas.

                              Ali
                            • Matt Rock
                              Hi Ali, what you describe sounds very familiar to a magnetic device which Edward Leedskalnin had constructed I would guess in the early 1940 s or earlier.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
                                Hi Ali,

                                what you describe sounds very familiar to a magnetic device which
                                Edward Leedskalnin had constructed I would guess in the early 1940's
                                or earlier.

                                Basically, he had a circular magnetic ring comprised of horseshoe
                                magnets embedded into concrete, and had this crank arm positioned in
                                the center. The crank arm was attached to an actual crank shaft from
                                an engine block (with the block). Although where the magnets on this
                                crank shaft were, is in question, but is does appear to have mounts
                                for something that would be magnetic. Of course, I strongly agree
                                that the device was designed using sacred geometry principles and
                                represented an 'atom'.

                                Magnetic currents generated from this device which were guided,
                                perhaps by limestone waveguides. That, I'm not sure of. Who ever
                                visited the Coral Castle in the group might know better.

                                Matt



                                --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ali Bali Gumba"
                                <ali_bali_gumba@y...> wrote:
                                > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > > Ali,
                                > > You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
                                > > The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
                                > > the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this
                                information
                                > > in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
                                > > -Steve
                                > >......
                                > >
                                > > The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
                                > exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
                                > cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
                                > >
                                > > -Steve
                                >
                                > Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
                                > extracting scructures?
                                >
                                > Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
                                > take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
                                > gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
                                > adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.
                                >
                                > If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a
                                ring,
                                > then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the
                                above
                                > stategy.
                                >
                                > Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.
                                >
                                > Comments please, I am trying to understand these ideas.
                                >
                                > Ali
                              • Steven Dufresne
                                A motorized device has been tried. There was one highly disputed claim of success that started it all. The idea was to use a motor instead of the top
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 3, 2004
                                  A motorized device has been tried. There was one highly disputed
                                  claim of success that started it all. The idea was to use a motor
                                  instead of the top rejection magnets to induce the wobble in the cones.
                                  Details of Justin's are here (scroll down to "My first 45GD based on
                                  Steve Thompson's design [ 45GD v.1.0 ]"):
                                  http://www.geocities.com/undergsci/hameltech.html
                                  and here are mine:
                                  http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/h45gdmk2/h45gdmk2.htm
                                  http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/hamlthom/h45gthom.htm
                                  Justin produced a lot of static on his radio when his was running.
                                  I did less testing with mine but did notice some ozone production
                                  and some eddies in the aluminum of the cones (likely induced by
                                  the fluctuating magnetic fields).

                                  My only concern with motorizing it is that there might be some
                                  necessary feedback between the energy production and the movements
                                  of the cones that occurs. This feedback would not occur if you
                                  motorize it.

                                  As for going without the cones altogether, David Hamel often
                                  talks about the air flow around the cones being important.

                                  -Steve

                                  Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
                                  > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...> wrote:
                                  >>Ali,
                                  >>You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
                                  >>The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
                                  >>the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this information
                                  >>in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
                                  >>-Steve
                                  >>......
                                  >>
                                  >>The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
                                  >
                                  > exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
                                  > cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
                                  >
                                  >>-Steve
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
                                  > extracting scructures?
                                  >
                                  > Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
                                  > take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
                                  > gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
                                  > adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.
                                  >
                                  > If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a ring,
                                  > then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the above
                                  > stategy.
                                  >
                                  > Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.
                                  >
                                  > Comments please, I am trying to understand these ideas.
                                  >
                                  > Ali
                                • Timothy
                                  ... Everything in this universe vibrates... every particle of mater... even the earth itself has a natural resonance at which it vibrates...
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 3, 2004
                                    > > What is the energy source in the Hameltonian
                                    > cone experiment that
                                    > > would cause this chaotic action?

                                    Everything in this universe vibrates...
                                    every particle of mater...
                                    even the earth itself has a natural resonance at
                                    which it vibrates...





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                                  • kukulcangod2003/mail.optonline.net
                                    Hi: The Hamel drum is replicating how the earth produces energy as per Dan La Rochelle (correct me if I m giving the wrong name), so we talking about a Whole
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 3, 2004
                                      Hi:
                                             The Hamel drum is replicating how the earth produces energy as per Dan La Rochelle (correct me if I'm giving the wrong name), so we talking about a Whole system,working harmoniously all of this conditions and more have to be imbedded in a different design to replicate the desired effects,say antigravity as final one,energy  production another..About the motors Ali they do the same in different arrangement ..because are based in processes not acknowledge by science..but yet shared by many different standpoints, can you understand the importance of this???, many different sources getting to the same conclusion isn't that proof that there's something to be studied for further understanding? ....Kukulcan
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 5:17 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11112 whole system progress

                                      A motorized device has been tried.  There was one highly disputed
                                      claim of success that started it all.  The idea was to use a motor
                                      instead of the top rejection magnets to induce the wobble in the cones.
                                      Details of Justin's are here (scroll down to "My first 45GD based on
                                      Steve Thompson's design [ 45GD v.1.0 ]"):
                                        http://www.geocities.com/undergsci/hameltech.html
                                      and here are mine:
                                        http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/h45gdmk2/h45gdmk2.htm
                                        http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/hamlthom/h45gthom.htm
                                      Justin produced a lot of static on his radio when his was running.
                                      I did less testing with mine but did notice some ozone production
                                      and some eddies in the aluminum of the cones (likely induced by
                                      the fluctuating magnetic fields).

                                      My only concern with motorizing it is that there might be some
                                      necessary feedback between the energy production and the movements
                                      of the cones that occurs.  This feedback would not occur if you
                                      motorize it.

                                      As for going without the cones altogether, David Hamel often
                                      talks about the air flow around the cones being important.

                                      -Steve

                                      Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
                                      > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...> wrote:
                                      >>Ali,
                                      >>You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
                                      >>The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
                                      >>the magnets that repel them.  I responded to you with this information
                                      >>in message 10648.  I've included it below anyway...
                                      >>-Steve
                                      >>......
                                      >>
                                      >>The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
                                      >
                                      > exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
                                      > cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
                                      >
                                      >>-Steve
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
                                      > extracting scructures?
                                      >
                                      > Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
                                      > take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
                                      > gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
                                      > adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.
                                      >
                                      > If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a ring,
                                      > then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the above
                                      > stategy.
                                      >
                                      > Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.
                                      >
                                      > Comments please, I am trying to understand these ideas.
                                      >
                                      > Ali



                                      Header Codes
                                      11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                                      11112: Building and balancing, progress
                                      11113: David Hamel reports
                                      11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                                      OT: "Off Topic"

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