## Re: 11112 whole system progress

Expand Messages
• Hi Ali, to answer: 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little differences
Message 1 of 23 , Jun 30 10:09 PM
Hi Ali,

1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little differences
noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
levelled vertically.
2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference as
you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up. I
have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are spinning.
of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so forth.

Matt

--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ali Bali Gumba"
<ali_bali_gumba@y...> wrote:
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...>
wrote:
> I think you are making great progress but I have some questions:
>
> 1. Does the stack of cones without the top rejection magnet stack
> straight without touching?
>
> 2. Can you turn the cones by hand and have them rotate without
> excessive wobbling and touching the sides (without the top
rejection
> magnet)?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ali
• Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the forces are radially
Message 2 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying
to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the
forces are radially symmetric, being used to center the cones and
prevent them from contacting the sides of the rings. What, in your
estimation would be a source of tangental force. In other words a
force that would cause the cones to rotate.

If you think of the cones as suspended by magnetic springs from the
rings it would be mechanically unstable if you put a force down on the
stack with the rejector magnet. With enough down force the cones would
be forced sideways because they can never be perfectly alligned in the
vertical direction. This must be the reason that the rejector magnet
forced the cones to contact the rings. This means that the rejector
magnet's forces need to be reduced to a point that the cones are not
forced from nearly vertical.

Perhaps the rejector magnet should be an attractor magnet to aid in
the centering process?

Have you considered the use of a rotating magnetic field to induce
eddy currents in the cones and get them to rotate? An addition of
several magnets mounted inside the cones would be able to send
magnetic force through the aluminum and then be able to induce current
in coils mounted on the frame. This would be a way of extracting power
from the cone rotation, like an automotive alternator and also be
another way of getting the cones to rotate initially.

Another thought would be to paint or draw sacred symbols on the sides
of the cones. The sacred symbols should be those that extract energy
from the zero point vaccuum and guide them in a circular direction.

Ali

--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...> wrote:
> Hi Ali,
>
>
> 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
> when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little differences
> noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
> magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
> this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
> levelled vertically.
> 2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference as
> you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up. I
> have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
> the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are spinning.
> of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
> apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
> magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
> vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so forth.
>
> Matt
>
• Ali Bali Gumba , You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not supposed to rotate. They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to
Message 3 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004

Ali Bali Gumba ,

You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not supposed to rotate.
They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to get this in your head.
Wobble yes rotate no.

Val

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
• ... supposed to rotate. ... in your head. ... What makes them wobble? I could imagine that a transient force would start them wobbling but eventually they
Message 4 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Val Gruno <vgruno2000@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Ali Bali Gumba ,
>
> You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not
supposed to rotate.
> They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to get this
> Wobble yes rotate no.
>
> Val
>

What makes them wobble? I could imagine that a transient force would
start them wobbling but eventually they would stop. Is this what you
have been seeing?

Ali
• Thankyou Ali, I will try to answer your questions based upon my somewhat limited experience and knowledge. ... firstly, the cones should not rotate, although
Message 5 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
Thankyou Ali,

I will try to answer your questions based upon my somewhat limited
experience and knowledge.

**************************************************
> Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying
> to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the
> forces are radially symmetric, being used to center the cones and
> prevent them from contacting the sides of the rings. What, in your
> estimation would be a source of tangental force. In other words a
> force that would cause the cones to rotate.
------------------------------------------------
firstly, the cones should not rotate, although there may be a slow
rotation at full vibration of the mechanism. Although I haven't seen
this is I have heard that the rotation will match the earth's
magnetic field or be a lower order of the period depending on
latitude and vicinity. Perhaps a diamagnetic region will give
different results.

*****************************************************
> If you think of the cones as suspended by magnetic springs from the
> rings it would be mechanically unstable if you put a force down on
the
> stack with the rejector magnet. With enough down force the cones
would
> be forced sideways because they can never be perfectly alligned in
the
> vertical direction. This must be the reason that the rejector magnet
> forced the cones to contact the rings. This means that the rejector
> magnet's forces need to be reduced to a point that the cones are not
> forced from nearly vertical.
-----------------------------
That sounds very logical and well thought out, Ali.
But the top rejection will not entirely try to force the entire cone
stack downward, perhaps partially. mainly it is to create a push-pull
effect between both top rejection mangets. Basically, the lower
magnet affixed to the cone will be forced to move or tilt in regards
to the fixed top magnet. In my case, I was demanding the top
rejection magnets to come too close to one another. This forced the
top cone to meander off to the side, and stay in that position until
I removed the magnet out of the repulsion. The idea, I believe is to
sort of gently apply this repulsion only slightly, yet enough to
cause a bouncing.
>
****************************************
> Perhaps the rejector magnet should be an attractor magnet to aid in
> the centering process?
----------------------------
I don't believe so. I did a visualization once, and it sort of makes
sense. If you visual the cones being as one unit and then contain
this single unit in a magnetic repulsion containment and then apply
this similar repulsion to the top and bottom of the unit, you will
see a sort of arrangement whereas the unit is made to be free of
frictional forces.
If the top rejection magnets were in attraction, you would actually
be coaxing the top cone to lift up out of the balancing required. In
a sense you would also weaken the response in the other cones, since
the pressure of touch would be reduced somewhat from the attraction.

********************************
> Have you considered the use of a rotating magnetic field to induce
> eddy currents in the cones and get them to rotate?
-------------------------
No consistant rotation is required. eddy currents I think will evolve
as the device is running. Yet these currents will be different in
nature from the electrical eddy currents of a transformer, since no
real ground plane is involved in this device. More like accumulations
of plasma or ionic flow. Surges.

**********************
> several magnets mounted inside the cones would be able to send
> magnetic force through the aluminum and then be able to induce
current
> in coils mounted on the frame. This would be a way of extracting
power
> from the cone rotation, like an automotive alternator and also be
> another way of getting the cones to rotate initially.
------------------
One thing is for sure in what must be known, is that device will
create an epicentre for this accumulation of energy. That would be
the best place to gather the energy. I believe people here have
remarked it being at the oscillator table or between the plates of
the table. You must realize, and I think I am right, that the sacred
Egyptian Anke is describing this accumulation or force field of the
device. Like a tear drop this Anke is. The 'bow' of the forcefield
being at the upper most of the device and the narrow being at the
bottom where the oscillator table is. Point of definition it would
seem to be, no? tap at the point of definition.

********************************
> Another thought would be to paint or draw sacred symbols on the
sides
> of the cones. The sacred symbols should be those that extract energy
> from the zero point vaccuum and guide them in a circular direction.
--------------------------------
Seriously, haha, well....errr......
Well, I can say that symbols do have metaphysical meaning and may in
fact induce healing in people in this manner, like encoding water for
instance to carry this imprint. But as far as the device is concerned
this is not really a necessary requirement. The device's geometry
unlimited energy. Since the the geometry is King with the magnetism.

***********
Matt
************
>
> Ali
>
>
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...>
wrote:
> > Hi Ali,
> >
> >
> > 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
> > when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little
differences
> > noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
> > magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
> > this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
> > levelled vertically.
> > 2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference
as
> > you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up.
I
> > have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
> > the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are
spinning.
> > of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
> > apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
> > magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
> > vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so
forth.
> >
> > Matt
> >
• Here s my kick at it --- The principle is simple, the practice is not that easy Three triangular cones sit on top of one another -- they will tend to fall over
Message 6 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
Here's my kick at it ---

The principle is simple, the practice is not that easy

Three triangular cones sit on top of one another -- they will tend to fall over

To stop the fall,  3 pairs of magnetic rings are attached to the rims so they repel each other

When the cone falls, the magnet pushes it back

As the cone moves, other cones are forced to move

Their magnets push back There is a movable base that helps the bottom cone to move.

The object of the falling and pushing is to obtain a stable disequilibrium in which
the cones wobble (fall continuously)

Almost all of David Hamel's devices use the principle of dynamic disequilibrium to
achieve what may be called mechanical perpetual motion

Other examples of dynamic disequilibrium can be seen in the mathematical field of
chaotic attractors as outlined over the last 20 years

DC

Matt Rock wrote:
Thankyou Ali,

I will try to answer your questions based upon my somewhat limited
experience and knowledge.

**************************************************
> Matt from looking at your pictures, your work seems great. In trying
> to analyse the forces on the cones and magnets I notice that all the
> forces are radially symmetric, being used to center the cones and
> prevent them from contacting the sides of the rings. What, in your
> estimation would be a source of tangental force. In other words a
> force that would cause the cones to rotate.
------------------------------------------------
firstly, the cones should not rotate, although there may be a slow
rotation at full vibration of the mechanism. Although I haven't seen
this is I have heard that the rotation will match the earth's
magnetic field or be a lower order of the period depending on
latitude and vicinity. Perhaps a diamagnetic region will give
different results.

*****************************************************
> If you think of the cones as suspended by magnetic springs from the
> rings it would be mechanically unstable if you put a force down on
the
> stack with the rejector magnet. With enough down force the cones
would
> be forced sideways because they can never be perfectly alligned in
the
> vertical direction. This must be the reason that the rejector magnet
> forced the cones to contact the rings. This means that the rejector
> magnet's forces need to be reduced to a point that the cones are not
> forced from nearly vertical.
-----------------------------
That sounds very logical and well thought out, Ali.
But the top rejection will not entirely try to force the entire cone
stack downward, perhaps partially. mainly it is to create a push-pull
effect between both top rejection mangets. Basically, the lower
magnet affixed to the cone will be forced to move or tilt in regards
to the fixed top magnet. In my case, I was demanding the top
rejection magnets to come too close to one another. This forced the
top cone to meander off to the side, and stay in that position until
I removed the magnet out of the repulsion. The idea, I believe is to
sort of gently apply this repulsion only slightly, yet enough to
cause a bouncing.
>
****************************************
> Perhaps the rejector magnet should be an attractor magnet to aid in
> the centering process?
----------------------------
I don't believe so. I did a visualization once, and it sort of makes
sense. If you visual the cones being as one unit and then contain
this single unit in a magnetic repulsion containment and then apply
this similar repulsion to the top and bottom of the unit, you will
see a sort of arrangement whereas the unit is made to be free of
frictional forces.
If the top rejection magnets were in attraction, you would actually
be coaxing the top cone to lift up out of the balancing required. In
a sense you would also weaken the response in the other cones, since
the pressure of touch would be reduced somewhat from the attraction.

********************************
> Have you considered the use of a rotating magnetic field to induce
> eddy currents in the cones and get them to rotate?
-------------------------
No consistant rotation is required. eddy currents I think will evolve
as the device is running. Yet these currents will be different in
nature from the electrical eddy currents of a transformer, since no
real ground plane is involved in this device. More like accumulations
of plasma or ionic flow. Surges.

**********************
> several magnets mounted inside the cones would be able to send
> magnetic force through the aluminum and then be able to induce
current
> in coils mounted on the frame. This would be a way of extracting
power
> from the cone rotation, like an automotive alternator and also be
> another way of getting the cones to rotate initially.
------------------
One thing is for sure in what must be known, is that device will
create an epicentre for this accumulation of energy. That would be
the best place to gather the energy. I believe people here have
remarked it being at the oscillator table or between the plates of
the table. You must realize, and I think I am right, that the sacred
Egyptian Anke is describing this accumulation or force field of the
device. Like a tear drop this Anke is. The 'bow' of the forcefield
being at the upper most of the device and the narrow being at the
bottom where the oscillator table is. Point of definition it would
seem to be, no? tap at the point of definition.

********************************
> Another thought would be to paint or draw sacred symbols on the
sides
> of the cones. The sacred symbols should be those that extract energy
> from the zero point vaccuum and guide them in a circular direction.
--------------------------------
Seriously, haha, well....errr......
Well, I can say that symbols do have metaphysical meaning and may in
fact induce healing in people in this manner, like encoding water for
instance to carry this imprint. But as far as the device is concerned
this is not really a necessary requirement. The device's geometry
unlimited energy. Since the the geometry is King with the magnetism.

***********
Matt
************
>
> Ali
>
>
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...>
wrote:
> > Hi Ali,
> >
> >
> > 1) yes, all three cones are straight/perpendicular to floor level
> > when left at rest or idle. At least there is very little
differences
> > noticed while at rest for the straightness. The space between
> > magnets on cone and rim is uniform for all three which indicates
> > this. Of course, I had used a plum bob to get the whole frame
> > levelled vertically.
> > 2) I can turn the cones by hand. There is a noticeable difference
as
> > you spin them. this is due to the magnetic ratio which is set up.
I
> > have it established for every 5 magnets on a cone there are 6 for
> > the rim. You will feel 'nodules' in the fields as they are
spinning.
> > of course the faster you spin the less the definition becomes
> > apparent. as it slows down to near dead stop, there is a somewhat
> > magnetic interlocking occuring, which will generate a random
> > vibration which will extend from one cone to the next and so
forth.
> >
> > Matt
> >

11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
11112: Building and balancing, progress
11113: David Hamel reports
11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
OT: "Off Topic"

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• Another way of looking at is symmetry breaking . At rest, the cones are all symmetrical to a common axis, or z axis. Then by your disequilibrium, the cones
Message 7 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
Another way of looking at is 'symmetry breaking'.
At rest, the cones are all symmetrical to a common axis, or 'z' axis.
Then by your disequilibrium, the cones break symmetry continuously n
the 'y' and 'x' axis.

but there's probably all sorts of other things to consider as well,
as things get rolling.

Matt
• Ali : One thing I can tell you ,the weight into speed concept suppose to overcome magnetic lock up..an example of this is the motor created by the Japanese
Message 8 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
Ali :
One thing I can tell you ,the weight  into speed concept suppose to overcome magnetic lock up..an example of this is the motor created by the Japanese inventor Kohei Minato:

i'm after something of the likes...you are not far when looking for Tangential impulse....so that, I think would explain the application in the Hamel drum...to keep the vibration\wobling or resonance effect(up and down) going like in the ladder at the Jersey city liberty science center, obviously this effect is of such nature that not many of us had been able to achieve this balance of forces....once the initial impulse is embraced by the cones the imbalance cause by the magnetic field presure suposed to keep it going.,many things hapen at same time just like in nature.....vibration almost imperceptible is being said to cause the accumulation of plasma...vibration some other researchers say like grebenikov victor to whom the physical form of the cavity was of the most importance to disrupt gravity......perhaps a la Victor schauberger in the way of releasing the ions which cause things to levitate.....somewhere in the Hameltech archives this ion negative acumulation effect is mentioned.....the rims acting as diode ripping off  or dividing the atoms of air to acumulate  plasma....after all, to avoid the balance of this ions ..we have to avoid that the drum touches the ground.... .and it seems to me that Hutchison in Vancouver...using radio waves confirms this, if he really achieved antigravity with his many radio frequencies combinations...not to mention Edward Leskalnin....I even recall  in the book "The Third Eye" from Lobsang Rampa ,the mention of the monks using sound to cause antigravity...to levitate stones...but what is the right frequency?? ...Kukulcan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 11:41 PM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: 11112 whole system progress

--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Val Gruno <vgruno2000@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Ali Bali Gumba ,

> You do not seem to understand. The cones will not and are not
supposed to rotate.
> They wobble. You need to do some reading in the archives to get this
> Wobble yes rotate no.

> Val
>

What makes them wobble? I could imagine that a transient force would
start them wobbling but eventually they would stop. Is this what you
have been seeing?

Ali

11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
11112: Building and balancing, progress
11113: David Hamel reports
11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
OT: "Off Topic"

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• Now: How about this to make this drum levitate?? http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm do you think guys this is really working???....I don t know but he put
Message 9 of 23 , Jul 1, 2004
Now:
http://www.perendev-power.com/home.htm

do you think guys this is really working???....I don't know but he put my own discovery at its best use...I feel dissapointed and happy...i was about to get there with my tangential magnetic impulse..the angle is important.....it creates torque....it means I can finally power that much needed air conditioner for my mom avoiding high costs of power ....Let's keep movin'...Kukulcan
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Rock
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:00 AM
Subject: [hameltech] Re: 11112 whole system progress

Another way of looking at is 'symmetry breaking'.
At rest, the cones are all symmetrical to a common axis, or 'z' axis.
Then by your disequilibrium, the cones break symmetry continuously n
the 'y' and 'x' axis.

but there's probably all sorts of other things to consider as well,
as things get rolling.

Matt

11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
11112: Building and balancing, progress
11113: David Hamel reports
11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
OT: "Off Topic"

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• ... Ali, You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from. The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and the magnets that repel
Message 10 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Dell Coleman <decoleman@p...> wrote:
>
> What is the energy source in the Hameltonian cone experiment that
> would cause this chaotic action?

Ali,
You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this information
in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
-Steve

From: Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...>
Date: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:41 am
Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11112 Cone progress +plus

Hi Ali,

Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Rock" <mattihorn@i...> wrote:
<snip>
> PS I still don't get it, can somebody explain how its supposed to work?

Here's what David tried to get through my thick skull. I'm going to
make use of some definitions that John Pasley posted back in
Nov 19, 2002 under the heading "[hameltech] Some definitions" since
he was careful to write down the words David was saying whereas I
didn't.

First some of John's definitions (which are as close to what David
tells me as far as I can recall - good job John!)...

The Other Side - A twin solar system in a dimension we cant see. It
occupies the same/similar space as our own.

The Zero Point - the point where energy is transferred from one side
to the other. Where 'neutrinos' pass through. It is at a 'nano hole'.

Isotope line - the line of change. After the neutrino/nano comes
through from the other side, this is the line it takes, like a
tornado from the bottom to the top.

Nano - (same as Neutrino) - the small energetic particle that can go
anywhere (all dimensions), between 'this side' and 'the other side'
and the 'ether'. This is what causes the vibration and gives excess
energy from our point of view. The small (about atomic level)
particle where the energy extraction takes place.

Nano Hole - The pathway a nano takes when it moves between
dimensions, a different hole type is needed for the different nano
types, white or black.

Ether - Where the neutrino/nano comes from. Another dimension other
than our own or the balancing 'other side'. A dimension where the
spirit is during astral travel. (I need to add this is nothing to do
with a medium for light or gravity to travel through). The sea of
energy.

The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point exists
between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the cones
wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.

-Steve
• ... mathematical field of chaotic attractors as outlined over the last 20 years. In all the chaotic systems that were looked at using the lorenz equation
Message 11 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Dell Coleman <decoleman@p...> wrote:
>Other examples of dynamic disequilibrium can be seen in the
mathematical field of chaotic attractors as outlined over the last 20
years.

In all the chaotic systems that were looked at using the lorenz
equation simulated on a computer there was a constant flow of energy
that powered the device or its simulation.

A simple model is the dripping of a faucet. As the flow is increased
the drips get faster and faster untill they switch from a constant
rate to a chaotic rate. But there has to be a flow.

What is the energy source in the Hameltonian cone experiment that
would cause this chaotic action?

Ali
• ... How about this to make this drum levitate?? ... These two devices look almost exactly like each other and yet the designers claim different modes of
Message 12 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "kukulcangod2003/mail.optonline.net"
<kukulcangod2003@o...> wrote:
> Ali :
Kohei Minato:
These two devices look almost exactly like each other and yet the
designers claim different modes of operation.

Ali
• ... exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there. ... Can I interpret
Message 13 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...> wrote:

> Ali,
> You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
> The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
> the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this information
> in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
> -Steve
>......
>
> The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
>
> -Steve

Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
extracting scructures?

Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.

If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a ring,
then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the above
stategy.

Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.

Ali
• Hi Ali, what you describe sounds very familiar to a magnetic device which Edward Leedskalnin had constructed I would guess in the early 1940 s or earlier.
Message 14 of 23 , Jul 2, 2004
Hi Ali,

what you describe sounds very familiar to a magnetic device which
Edward Leedskalnin had constructed I would guess in the early 1940's
or earlier.

Basically, he had a circular magnetic ring comprised of horseshoe
magnets embedded into concrete, and had this crank arm positioned in
the center. The crank arm was attached to an actual crank shaft from
an engine block (with the block). Although where the magnets on this
crank shaft were, is in question, but is does appear to have mounts
for something that would be magnetic. Of course, I strongly agree
that the device was designed using sacred geometry principles and
represented an 'atom'.

Magnetic currents generated from this device which were guided,
perhaps by limestone waveguides. That, I'm not sure of. Who ever
visited the Coral Castle in the group might know better.

Matt

--- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ali Bali Gumba"
<ali_bali_gumba@y...> wrote:
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...>
wrote:
>
> > Ali,
> > You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
> > The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
> > the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this
information
> > in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
> > -Steve
> >......
> >
> > The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
> exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
> cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
> >
> > -Steve
>
> Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
> extracting scructures?
>
> Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
> take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
> gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
> adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.
>
> If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a
ring,
> then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the
above
> stategy.
>
> Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.
>
>
> Ali
• A motorized device has been tried. There was one highly disputed claim of success that started it all. The idea was to use a motor instead of the top
Message 15 of 23 , Jul 3, 2004
A motorized device has been tried. There was one highly disputed
claim of success that started it all. The idea was to use a motor
instead of the top rejection magnets to induce the wobble in the cones.
Details of Justin's are here (scroll down to "My first 45GD based on
Steve Thompson's design [ 45GD v.1.0 ]"):
http://www.geocities.com/undergsci/hameltech.html
and here are mine:
http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/h45gdmk2/h45gdmk2.htm
http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/hamlthom/h45gthom.htm
Justin produced a lot of static on his radio when his was running.
I did less testing with mine but did notice some ozone production
and some eddies in the aluminum of the cones (likely induced by
the fluctuating magnetic fields).

My only concern with motorizing it is that there might be some
necessary feedback between the energy production and the movements
of the cones that occurs. This feedback would not occur if you
motorize it.

As for going without the cones altogether, David Hamel often
talks about the air flow around the cones being important.

-Steve

Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...> wrote:
>>Ali,
>>You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
>>The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
>>the magnets that repel them. I responded to you with this information
>>in message 10648. I've included it below anyway...
>>-Steve
>>......
>>
>>The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
>
> exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
> cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
>
>>-Steve
>
>
> Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
> extracting scructures?
>
> Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
> take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
> gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
> adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.
>
> If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a ring,
> then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the above
> stategy.
>
> Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.
>
>
> Ali
• ... Everything in this universe vibrates... every particle of mater... even the earth itself has a natural resonance at which it vibrates...
Message 16 of 23 , Jul 3, 2004
> > What is the energy source in the Hameltonian
> cone experiment that
> > would cause this chaotic action?

Everything in this universe vibrates...
every particle of mater...
even the earth itself has a natural resonance at
which it vibrates...

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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• Hi: The Hamel drum is replicating how the earth produces energy as per Dan La Rochelle (correct me if I m giving the wrong name), so we talking about a Whole
Message 17 of 23 , Jul 3, 2004
Hi:
The Hamel drum is replicating how the earth produces energy as per Dan La Rochelle (correct me if I'm giving the wrong name), so we talking about a Whole system,working harmoniously all of this conditions and more have to be imbedded in a different design to replicate the desired effects,say antigravity as final one,energy  production another..About the motors Ali they do the same in different arrangement ..because are based in processes not acknowledge by science..but yet shared by many different standpoints, can you understand the importance of this???, many different sources getting to the same conclusion isn't that proof that there's something to be studied for further understanding? ....Kukulcan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: 11112 whole system progress

A motorized device has been tried.  There was one highly disputed
claim of success that started it all.  The idea was to use a motor
instead of the top rejection magnets to induce the wobble in the cones.
Details of Justin's are here (scroll down to "My first 45GD based on
Steve Thompson's design [ 45GD v.1.0 ]"):
http://www.geocities.com/undergsci/hameltech.html
and here are mine:
http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/h45gdmk2/h45gdmk2.htm
http://www.entrenet.com/~stevend/haml45gd/hamlthom/h45gthom.htm
Justin produced a lot of static on his radio when his was running.
I did less testing with mine but did notice some ozone production
and some eddies in the aluminum of the cones (likely induced by
the fluctuating magnetic fields).

My only concern with motorizing it is that there might be some
necessary feedback between the energy production and the movements
of the cones that occurs.  This feedback would not occur if you
motorize it.

As for going without the cones altogether, David Hamel often
talks about the air flow around the cones being important.

-Steve

Ali Bali Gumba wrote:
> --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Dufresne <stevend@e...> wrote:
>>Ali,
>>You already know what David Hamel says the energy comes from.
>>The energy comes from the area between the cone rim magnets and
>>the magnets that repel them.  I responded to you with this information
>>in message 10648.  I've included it below anyway...
>>-Steve
>>......
>>
>>The only piece of the puzzle missing above is that the Zero Point
>
> exists between the cone rim magnets and the repelling magnets as the
> cones wobble/vibrate. As it says above, energy comes from there.
>
>>-Steve
>
>
> Can I interpret what you just said and propose alternate energy
> extracting scructures?
>
> Then you could dispense with the cones the rings and stuff and just
> take two opposing magnets connect one magnet to a crank like a
> gasoline engine and generate energy as the vibration rates could be
> adjusted just by turning the crank at different speeds.
>
> If the energy generation was dependant on the magnets being in a ring,
> then you could put the ring onto an offset crank and repeat the above
> stategy.
>
> Either of these proposals would simplify the structure enormously.
>
>
> Ali

11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
11112: Building and balancing, progress
11113: David Hamel reports
11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
OT: "Off Topic"

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