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Re: OT: GEET Motor

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  • gumboots2u
    Hi Steve I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build one that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept breaking , but the one
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 16, 2004
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      Hi Steve

      I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build one
      that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
      breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite bonafide
      unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how to run
      it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation the
      exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot, nothing.

      The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75% diesel
      ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on the
      phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.

      The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.

      Gotta Go. Mac







      --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
      <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
      > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
      > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
      > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
    • Ole Jensen
      Mac, the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions, were there any other effects noted (like increased mileage from the device)? did it run
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 25, 2004
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        Mac,
        the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
        were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
        from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
        fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
        mind discussing it with some of us?

        I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
        which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
        as you know.

        thanks for the input,
        Ole.

        --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
        > Hi Steve
        >
        > I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build one
        > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
        > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite bonafide
        > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how to
        run
        > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation the
        > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
        nothing.
        >
        > The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75% diesel
        > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on the
        > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
        >
        > The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
        >
        > Gotta Go. Mac
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
        > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
        > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
        > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
        > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
      • gumboots2u
        Hi Ole. The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being available to talk I don t know. I think his HIMAC website is still up but I am too busy to
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 26, 2004
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          Hi Ole.

          The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being
          available to talk I don't know. I think his HIMAC website is still
          up but I am too busy to chase this down. As to the Geet being a
          simple device , it is not . It looks simple but is very fragile
          to get running. Most of the results are based on evaporation and
          heat and a bit of fractional distillation. Keep in mind that it
          is very easy get a reverse result and nonconsistant running or just
          a very fickle engine. The internal combustion engine is the most
          useless device in regards to efficient use of available combustion
          technology. Go to a Stirling or turbine or Wisemann or any other
          situation , even steam is more consistent at transferring thermal
          energy than a four stroke piston engine. If you can burn scrap out
          where you are then find a free source of fuel to burn. I take it
          that at $30.00 per day that you are on electric heat?. You must
          consider also that the maintenance on an electric genset is huge,
          particularly when its broken and you need it fixed NOW. You end up
          having a lot of reduntant items around like another complete genset
          or at least extra motors.

          More later ... Truly Mac.


          --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
          > Mac,
          > the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
          > were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
          > from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
          > fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
          > mind discussing it with some of us?
          >
          > I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
          > which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
          > as you know.
          >
          > thanks for the input,
          > Ole.
          >
          > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
          > > Hi Steve
          > >
          > > I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build one
          > > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
          > > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite
          bonafide
          > > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how
          to
          > run
          > > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation
          the
          > > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
          > nothing.
          > >
          > > The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75%
          diesel
          > > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on the
          > > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
          > >
          > > The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
          > >
          > > Gotta Go. Mac
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
          > > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
          > > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
          > > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > __________________________________
          > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
          > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
        • ole_thor
          Mac, thanks for the update. I found his website himacresearch.com I ll look into it a bit more, but your reply indicates it may be more of an oddity than a
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 26, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Mac,
            thanks for the update.
            I found his website himacresearch.com
            I'll look into it a bit more, but your reply
            indicates it may be more of an oddity than a certainty.
            Ole.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "gumboots2u" <PDS@...>
            To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:00 PM
            Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor


            Hi Ole.

            The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being
            available to talk I don't know. I think his HIMAC website is still
            up but I am too busy to chase this down. As to the Geet being a
            simple device , it is not . It looks simple but is very fragile
            to get running. Most of the results are based on evaporation and
            heat and a bit of fractional distillation. Keep in mind that it
            is very easy get a reverse result and nonconsistant running or just
            a very fickle engine. The internal combustion engine is the most
            useless device in regards to efficient use of available combustion
            technology. Go to a Stirling or turbine or Wisemann or any other
            situation , even steam is more consistent at transferring thermal
            energy than a four stroke piston engine. If you can burn scrap out
            where you are then find a free source of fuel to burn. I take it
            that at $30.00 per day that you are on electric heat?. You must
            consider also that the maintenance on an electric genset is huge,
            particularly when its broken and you need it fixed NOW. You end up
            having a lot of reduntant items around like another complete genset
            or at least extra motors.

            More later ... Truly Mac.


            --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
            > Mac,
            > the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
            > were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
            > from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
            > fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
            > mind discussing it with some of us?
            >
            > I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
            > which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
            > as you know.
            >
            > thanks for the input,
            > Ole.
            >
            > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
            > > Hi Steve
            > >
            > > I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build one
            > > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
            > > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite
            bonafide
            > > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how
            to
            > run
            > > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation
            the
            > > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
            > nothing.
            > >
            > > The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75%
            diesel
            > > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on the
            > > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
            > >
            > > The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
            > >
            > > Gotta Go. Mac
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
            > > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
            > > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
            > > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > __________________________________
            > > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
            > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html




            Header Codes
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            11112: Building and balancing, progress
            11113: David Hamel reports
            11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
            OT: "Off Topic"

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          • jszymanek2000
            Ole, Why are your energy costs so high? Do use electricity to heat your house? If so a generator would be a good idea, you might even be able to do a
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 26, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Ole,

              Why are your energy costs so high? Do use electricity to heat your
              house? If so a generator would be a good idea, you might even be able
              to do a co-generation setup by running the exhaust gases thru a heat
              exchanger. If you did something like that it would be a good idea to
              have a CO montior to make sure you didn't have any leaks!

              Justin



              --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "ole_thor" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
              > Mac,
              > thanks for the update.
              > I found his website himacresearch.com
              > I'll look into it a bit more, but your reply
              > indicates it may be more of an oddity than a certainty.
              > Ole.
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...>
              > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:00 PM
              > Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor
              >
              >
              > Hi Ole.
              >
              > The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being
              > available to talk I don't know. I think his HIMAC website is still
              > up but I am too busy to chase this down. As to the Geet being a
              > simple device , it is not . It looks simple but is very fragile
              > to get running. Most of the results are based on evaporation and
              > heat and a bit of fractional distillation. Keep in mind that it
              > is very easy get a reverse result and nonconsistant running or
              just
              > a very fickle engine. The internal combustion engine is the most
              > useless device in regards to efficient use of available combustion
              > technology. Go to a Stirling or turbine or Wisemann or any other
              > situation , even steam is more consistent at transferring thermal
              > energy than a four stroke piston engine. If you can burn scrap out
              > where you are then find a free source of fuel to burn. I take it
              > that at $30.00 per day that you are on electric heat?. You must
              > consider also that the maintenance on an electric genset is huge,
              > particularly when its broken and you need it fixed NOW. You end up
              > having a lot of reduntant items around like another complete
              genset
              > or at least extra motors.
              >
              > More later ... Truly Mac.
              >
              >
              > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@j...>
              wrote:
              > > Mac,
              > > the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
              > > were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
              > > from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
              > > fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
              > > mind discussing it with some of us?
              > >
              > > I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
              > > which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
              > > as you know.
              > >
              > > thanks for the input,
              > > Ole.
              > >
              > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
              > > > Hi Steve
              > > >
              > > > I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build
              one
              > > > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
              > > > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite
              > bonafide
              > > > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how
              > to
              > > run
              > > > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation
              > the
              > > > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
              > > nothing.
              > > >
              > > > The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75%
              > diesel
              > > > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on
              the
              > > > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
              > > >
              > > > The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
              > > >
              > > > Gotta Go. Mac
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
              > > > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
              > > > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
              > > > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > __________________________________
              > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
              > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Header Codes
              > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
              > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
              > 11113: David Hamel reports
              > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
              > OT: "Off Topic"
              >
              > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
              > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
            • ole_thor
              Justin, I run my business from my home. I use a lot of equipment. If I run an infernal combustion type generator, I would need to get better than normal
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 27, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Justin,
                I run my business from my home. I use a lot of equipment.
                If I run an infernal combustion type generator, I would need
                to get better than normal "mileage" out of it, or it is too expensive.
                thanks for the tip, I'll keep it on file, if I go with a genset.
                Ole.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "jszymanek2000" <jszymanek2000@...>
                To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:05 AM
                Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor


                Ole,

                Why are your energy costs so high? Do use electricity to heat your
                house? If so a generator would be a good idea, you might even be able
                to do a co-generation setup by running the exhaust gases thru a heat
                exchanger. If you did something like that it would be a good idea to
                have a CO montior to make sure you didn't have any leaks!

                Justin



                --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "ole_thor" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
                > Mac,
                > thanks for the update.
                > I found his website himacresearch.com
                > I'll look into it a bit more, but your reply
                > indicates it may be more of an oddity than a certainty.
                > Ole.
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...>
                > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:00 PM
                > Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor
                >
                >
                > Hi Ole.
                >
                > The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being
                > available to talk I don't know. I think his HIMAC website is still
                > up but I am too busy to chase this down. As to the Geet being a
                > simple device , it is not . It looks simple but is very fragile
                > to get running. Most of the results are based on evaporation and
                > heat and a bit of fractional distillation. Keep in mind that it
                > is very easy get a reverse result and nonconsistant running or
                just
                > a very fickle engine. The internal combustion engine is the most
                > useless device in regards to efficient use of available combustion
                > technology. Go to a Stirling or turbine or Wisemann or any other
                > situation , even steam is more consistent at transferring thermal
                > energy than a four stroke piston engine. If you can burn scrap out
                > where you are then find a free source of fuel to burn. I take it
                > that at $30.00 per day that you are on electric heat?. You must
                > consider also that the maintenance on an electric genset is huge,
                > particularly when its broken and you need it fixed NOW. You end up
                > having a lot of reduntant items around like another complete
                genset
                > or at least extra motors.
                >
                > More later ... Truly Mac.
                >
                >
                > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@j...>
                wrote:
                > > Mac,
                > > the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
                > > were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
                > > from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
                > > fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
                > > mind discussing it with some of us?
                > >
                > > I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
                > > which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
                > > as you know.
                > >
                > > thanks for the input,
                > > Ole.
                > >
                > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
                > > > Hi Steve
                > > >
                > > > I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build
                one
                > > > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
                > > > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite
                > bonafide
                > > > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how
                > to
                > > run
                > > > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation
                > the
                > > > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
                > > nothing.
                > > >
                > > > The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75%
                > diesel
                > > > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on
                the
                > > > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
                > > >
                > > > The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
                > > >
                > > > Gotta Go. Mac
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
                > > > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
                > > > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
                > > > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > __________________________________
                > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
                > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Header Codes
                > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
                > 11113: David Hamel reports
                > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                > OT: "Off Topic"
                >
                > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links




                Header Codes
                11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                11112: Building and balancing, progress
                11113: David Hamel reports
                11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                OT: "Off Topic"

                Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com

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              • jszymanek2000
                Ole, If you get a diesel generator you could run it on bio diesel. You can get used veg. oils from restrants, usually for free as they have pay to dispose of
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 27, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ole,

                  If you get a diesel generator you could run it on bio diesel. You can
                  get used veg. oils from restrants, usually for free as they have pay
                  to dispose of it. Then you need to filter out particles and use a
                  process which involves heating and NaOH to remove the heavy ends. I'm
                  sorry I don't have any good links on hand, but there is plenty of info
                  out there so do a search if interested. Anyway once you get the final
                  product you can burn it in a unmodified diesel engine. The only thing
                  you have to be careful about is running it in the cold. The fuel gets
                  thick and can wreak the injection pump. So with cold fuel you need to
                  heat it a little before the injector. If you running it indoors it
                  shouldn't be a problem.

                  A diesel generator will set you back quite a bit, so I am not sure if
                  it would economical. It probably could be over a longer term, as long
                  as you can get the veggy oil for free or at low cost. Making the fuel
                  is not really all that hard, I have a friend who knows a guy who makes
                  bio diesel for his Volkswagon Rabbit. He has the whole setup in his
                  basement. I have been interested in trying to do this for a few years,
                  but my main problem is that I lack a diesel engine.


                  Another way is to burn alcohol in a gasoline engine. There are guys
                  who do it, but it costs as much or a bit more than gasoline. I learned
                  how to make alcohol last year and did so on a small scale. I was
                  planning to run a 5 hp engine on it. I haven't tryed to yet. I had
                  grand plans to use a 100 bbl tank to brew hooch in for my car. I
                  crunched some numbers, it was looking very cheap until I got to the
                  distillation costs. You can't get much more that 13% alcohol with even
                  the best yeast, and then you need to distill it to concentrate it. The
                  energy required to raise that much water to boiling makes it
                  uneconomical. There are also issues of vaporation (can't start in low
                  temps), changes to engine computer is needed and the mileage is worse.
                  Granted you can run a much higher compression ratio to get superior
                  mileage and power. But then you cannot go back to gasoline without
                  major knock issues.


                  Dual fuel engines also hold great potiental, as they can have very
                  high effiencies and can burn many types of fuel (diesel as a pilot in
                  very small amounts and using a gas fuel like natural gas). The high
                  price of natural gas has all but completely killed the development of it.

                  It may be worth considering changes in your equipment or processes to
                  save on power. Again the benefit may out weight the costs. That is how
                  it often is, and why many times in industry more efficient methods are
                  disregarded for the sake of cost.

                  Of course what you really need is a working 3CD. Then you could pull
                  out all the power you needed!

                  Justin



                  --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "ole_thor" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
                  > Justin,
                  > I run my business from my home. I use a lot of equipment.
                  > If I run an infernal combustion type generator, I would need
                  > to get better than normal "mileage" out of it, or it is too expensive.
                  > thanks for the tip, I'll keep it on file, if I go with a genset.
                  > Ole.
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "jszymanek2000" <jszymanek2000@y...>
                  > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:05 AM
                  > Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor
                  >
                  >
                  > Ole,
                  >
                  > Why are your energy costs so high? Do use electricity to heat your
                  > house? If so a generator would be a good idea, you might even be able
                  > to do a co-generation setup by running the exhaust gases thru a heat
                  > exchanger. If you did something like that it would be a good idea to
                  > have a CO montior to make sure you didn't have any leaks!
                  >
                  > Justin
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "ole_thor" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
                  > > Mac,
                  > > thanks for the update.
                  > > I found his website himacresearch.com
                  > > I'll look into it a bit more, but your reply
                  > > indicates it may be more of an oddity than a certainty.
                  > > Ole.
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...>
                  > > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:00 PM
                  > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Ole.
                  > >
                  > > The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being
                  > > available to talk I don't know. I think his HIMAC website is still
                  > > up but I am too busy to chase this down. As to the Geet being a
                  > > simple device , it is not . It looks simple but is very fragile
                  > > to get running. Most of the results are based on evaporation and
                  > > heat and a bit of fractional distillation. Keep in mind that it
                  > > is very easy get a reverse result and nonconsistant running or
                  > just
                  > > a very fickle engine. The internal combustion engine is the most
                  > > useless device in regards to efficient use of available combustion
                  > > technology. Go to a Stirling or turbine or Wisemann or any other
                  > > situation , even steam is more consistent at transferring thermal
                  > > energy than a four stroke piston engine. If you can burn scrap out
                  > > where you are then find a free source of fuel to burn. I take it
                  > > that at $30.00 per day that you are on electric heat?. You must
                  > > consider also that the maintenance on an electric genset is huge,
                  > > particularly when its broken and you need it fixed NOW. You end up
                  > > having a lot of reduntant items around like another complete
                  > genset
                  > > or at least extra motors.
                  > >
                  > > More later ... Truly Mac.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@j...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > Mac,
                  > > > the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
                  > > > were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
                  > > > from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
                  > > > fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
                  > > > mind discussing it with some of us?
                  > > >
                  > > > I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
                  > > > which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
                  > > > as you know.
                  > > >
                  > > > thanks for the input,
                  > > > Ole.
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
                  > > > > Hi Steve
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build
                  > one
                  > > > > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
                  > > > > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite
                  > > bonafide
                  > > > > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how
                  > > to
                  > > > run
                  > > > > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation
                  > > the
                  > > > > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
                  > > > nothing.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75%
                  > > diesel
                  > > > > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on
                  > the
                  > > > > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Gotta Go. Mac
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
                  > > > > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
                  > > > > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > __________________________________
                  > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
                  > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Header Codes
                  > > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                  > > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
                  > > 11113: David Hamel reports
                  > > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                  > > OT: "Off Topic"
                  > >
                  > > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Header Codes
                  > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                  > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
                  > 11113: David Hamel reports
                  > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                  > OT: "Off Topic"
                  >
                  > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Dennis Gulenchin
                  Here is a web site about a guy who runs a generator with a lister engine ( very cheap on fuel ) and runs the exhaust through a cast iron radiator to heat his
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 27, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Here is a web site  about a guy who runs a generator with a lister engine ( very cheap on fuel ) and runs the exhaust through a cast iron radiator to heat his shop. Dennis Lister 6/1 Generator

                    jszymanek2000 wrote:
                    Ole,

                    Why are your energy costs so high? Do use electricity to heat your
                    house? If so a generator would be a good idea, you might even be able
                    to do a co-generation setup by running the exhaust gases thru a heat
                    exchanger. If you did something like that it would be a good idea to
                    have a CO montior to make sure you didn't have any leaks!

                    Justin



                    --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "ole_thor" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
                    > Mac,
                    > thanks for the update.
                    > I found his website himacresearch.com
                    > I'll look into it a bit more, but your reply
                    > indicates it may be more of an oddity than a certainty.
                    > Ole.
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...>
                    > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:00 PM
                    > Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor
                    >
                    >
                    >    Hi Ole.
                    >
                    >     The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being
                    >  available to talk I don't know. I think his HIMAC website is still
                    >  up but I am too busy to chase this down. As to the Geet being a
                    >  simple device , it is not . It looks simple but is very fragile
                    >  to get running. Most of the results are based on evaporation and
                    >  heat and a bit of fractional distillation. Keep in mind that it
                    >  is very easy get a reverse result and nonconsistant running or
                    just
                    >  a very fickle engine. The internal combustion engine is the most
                    >  useless device in regards to efficient use of available combustion
                    >  technology.   Go to a Stirling or turbine or Wisemann or any other
                    >  situation , even steam is more consistent at transferring thermal
                    >  energy than a four stroke piston engine. If you can burn scrap out
                    >  where you are then find a free source of fuel to burn. I take it
                    >  that at $30.00 per day that you are on electric heat?. You must
                    >  consider also that the maintenance on an electric genset is huge,
                    > particularly when its broken and you need it fixed NOW. You end up
                    >  having a lot of reduntant items around like another complete
                    genset
                    > or at least extra motors.
                    >
                    >    More later  ... Truly Mac.  
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@j...>
                    wrote:
                    > > Mac,
                    > > the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
                    > > were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
                    > > from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
                    > > fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
                    > > mind discussing it with some of us?
                    > >
                    > > I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
                    > > which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
                    > > as you know.
                    > >
                    > > thanks for the input,
                    > > Ole.
                    > >
                    > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
                    > > >    Hi Steve
                    > > >
                    > > >    I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build
                    one
                    > > > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
                    > > > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite
                    > bonafide
                    > > > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how
                    > to
                    > > run
                    > > > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation
                    > the
                    > > > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
                    > > nothing.
                    > > >
                    > > >    The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75%
                    > diesel
                    > > > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on
                    the
                    > > > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
                    > > >   
                    > > >     The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
                    > > >
                    > > >    Gotta Go.   Mac
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
                    > > > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
                    > > > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > __________________________________
                    > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
                    > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Header Codes
                    > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                    > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
                    > 11113: David Hamel reports
                    > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                    > OT: "Off Topic"
                    >
                    > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Unsubscribe:  hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > List owner:  hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com

                    > Yahoo! Groups Links



                    Header Codes
                    11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                    11112: Building and balancing, progress
                    11113: David Hamel reports
                    11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                    OT: "Off Topic"

                    Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                    Subscribe:  hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  • ole_thor
                    Dennis, this is a very informative reference. thanks for passing it on. I will look into finding one of these and see what I need in order to deliver the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 28, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dennis,
                      this is a very informative reference.
                      thanks for passing it on.
                      I will look into finding one of these and see what
                      I need in order to deliver the 10-15Kw I need
                      Ole.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Dennis Gulenchin" <dgulenchin@...>
                      To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:33 AM
                      Subject: Re: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor


                      Here is a web site about a guy who runs a generator with a lister
                      engine ( very cheap on fuel ) and runs the exhaust through a cast iron
                      radiator to heat his shop. Dennis Lister 6/1 Generator
                      <http://www.utterpower.com/Lister%206/1.htm>

                      jszymanek2000 wrote:

                      > Ole,
                      >
                      > Why are your energy costs so high? Do use electricity to heat your
                      > house? If so a generator would be a good idea, you might even be able
                      > to do a co-generation setup by running the exhaust gases thru a heat
                      > exchanger. If you did something like that it would be a good idea to
                      > have a CO montior to make sure you didn't have any leaks!
                      >
                      > Justin
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "ole_thor" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
                      > > Mac,
                      > > thanks for the update.
                      > > I found his website himacresearch.com
                      > > I'll look into it a bit more, but your reply
                      > > indicates it may be more of an oddity than a certainty.
                      > > Ole.
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...>
                      > > To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:00 PM
                      > > Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi Ole.
                      > >
                      > > The unit did run longer{ about 2-3 times}, as to Bruce being
                      > > available to talk I don't know. I think his HIMAC website is still
                      > > up but I am too busy to chase this down. As to the Geet being a
                      > > simple device , it is not . It looks simple but is very fragile
                      > > to get running. Most of the results are based on evaporation and
                      > > heat and a bit of fractional distillation. Keep in mind that it
                      > > is very easy get a reverse result and nonconsistant running or
                      > just
                      > > a very fickle engine. The internal combustion engine is the most
                      > > useless device in regards to efficient use of available combustion
                      > > technology. Go to a Stirling or turbine or Wisemann or any other
                      > > situation , even steam is more consistent at transferring thermal
                      > > energy than a four stroke piston engine. If you can burn scrap out
                      > > where you are then find a free source of fuel to burn. I take it
                      > > that at $30.00 per day that you are on electric heat?. You must
                      > > consider also that the maintenance on an electric genset is huge,
                      > > particularly when its broken and you need it fixed NOW. You end up
                      > > having a lot of reduntant items around like another complete
                      > genset
                      > > or at least extra motors.
                      > >
                      > > More later ... Truly Mac.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Jensen" <ole_thor@j...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > > Mac,
                      > > > the model that you saw working, other than the zero emissions,
                      > > > were there any other effects noted (like increased "mileage"
                      > > > from the device)? did it run longer than it would on regular
                      > > > fuel? if so, how much longer? can you ask Bruce if he would
                      > > > mind discussing it with some of us?
                      > > >
                      > > > I badly need a generator to offset my winter hydro consumption
                      > > > which is up near $30 per day, and winter here is a long affair
                      > > > as you know.
                      > > >
                      > > > thanks for the input,
                      > > > Ole.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "gumboots2u" <PDS@r...> wrote:
                      > > > > Hi Steve
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have a model of a GEET in my shop. I was trying to build
                      > one
                      > > > > that was of glass after seeing one in Niagara Falls . Mine kept
                      > > > > breaking , but the one I saw in "The Falls " was a definite
                      > > bonafide
                      > > > > unit. Bruce McBurney was the guy that had it and showed me how
                      > > to
                      > > > run
                      > > > > it. He had more than one there. When it was in full operation
                      > > the
                      > > > > exhaust was completely clean , no odour , no taste, no soot,
                      > > > nothing.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The unit was a 2500 watt genset. running on a mix of 75%
                      > > diesel
                      > > > > ,25% gas. I have spoken to Paul Pantone for about 2 hours on
                      > the
                      > > > > phone one day. It was definitely a worthwhile conversation.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The GEET is a viable , albeit complex technology.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Gotta Go. Mac
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, Steven Ontiveros
                      > > > > <steven_ontiveros@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > > Here is something to possibly stir some interest. Has
                      > > > > > anyone heard of the GEET Motor by Paul Pantone?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > __________________________________
                      > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > > > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
                      > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Header Codes
                      > > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                      > > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
                      > > 11113: David Hamel reports
                      > > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                      > > OT: "Off Topic"
                      > >
                      > > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Header Codes
                      > 11111: Theory, untested Hamel ideas
                      > 11112: Building and balancing, progress
                      > 11113: David Hamel reports
                      > 11114: Non-hamel mysteries and energies
                      > OT: "Off Topic"
                      >
                      > Post message: hameltech@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subscribe: hameltech-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > Unsubscribe: hameltech-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > List owner: hameltech-owner@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                      >
                      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                    • ole_thor
                      Justin, I looked at a diesel generator, and so far it has looked like the answer for power outages, but not for day to day running (still too expensive).
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 28, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Justin,
                        I looked at a diesel generator, and so far it has looked
                        like the answer for power outages, but not for
                        day to day running (still too expensive). however with
                        the latest set of increases for commercial power,
                        I will have to redo the calculations.
                        I'll put the bio-diesel in the file as well.
                        thanks,
                        Ole.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "jszymanek2000" <jszymanek2000@...>
                        To: <hameltech@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:36 AM
                        Subject: [hameltech] Re: OT: GEET Motor


                        Ole,

                        If you get a diesel generator you could run it on bio diesel. You can
                        get used veg. oils from restrants, usually for free as they have pay
                        to dispose of it. Then you need to filter out particles and use a
                        process which involves heating and NaOH to remove the heavy ends. I'm
                        sorry I don't have any good links on hand, but there is plenty of info
                        out there so do a search if interested. Anyway once you get the final
                        product you can burn it in a unmodified diesel engine. The only thing
                        you have to be careful about is running it in the cold. The fuel gets
                        thick and can wreak the injection pump. So with cold fuel you need to
                        heat it a little before the injector. If you running it indoors it
                        shouldn't be a problem.

                        A diesel generator will set you back quite a bit, so I am not sure if
                        it would economical. It probably could be over a longer term, as long
                        as you can get the veggy oil for free or at low cost. Making the fuel
                        is not really all that hard, I have a friend who knows a guy who makes
                        bio diesel for his Volkswagon Rabbit. He has the whole setup in his
                        basement. I have been interested in trying to do this for a few years,
                        but my main problem is that I lack a diesel engine.


                        Another way is to burn alcohol in a gasoline engine. There are guys
                        who do it, but it costs as much or a bit more than gasoline. I learned
                        how to make alcohol last year and did so on a small scale. I was
                        planning to run a 5 hp engine on it. I haven't tryed to yet. I had
                        grand plans to use a 100 bbl tank to brew hooch in for my car. I
                        crunched some numbers, it was looking very cheap until I got to the
                        distillation costs. You can't get much more that 13% alcohol with even
                        the best yeast, and then you need to distill it to concentrate it. The
                        energy required to raise that much water to boiling makes it
                        uneconomical. There are also issues of vaporation (can't start in low
                        temps), changes to engine computer is needed and the mileage is worse.
                        Granted you can run a much higher compression ratio to get superior
                        mileage and power. But then you cannot go back to gasoline without
                        major knock issues.


                        Dual fuel engines also hold great potiental, as they can have very
                        high effiencies and can burn many types of fuel (diesel as a pilot in
                        very small amounts and using a gas fuel like natural gas). The high
                        price of natural gas has all but completely killed the development of it.

                        It may be worth considering changes in your equipment or processes to
                        save on power. Again the benefit may out weight the costs. That is how
                        it often is, and why many times in industry more efficient methods are
                        disregarded for the sake of cost.

                        Of course what you really need is a working 3CD. Then you could pull
                        out all the power you needed!

                        Justin



                        --- In hameltech@yahoogroups.com, "ole_thor" <ole_thor@j...> wrote:
                        > Justin,
                        > I run my business from my home. I use a lot of equipment.
                        > If I run an infernal combustion type generator, I would need
                        > to get better than normal "mileage" out of it, or it is too expensive.
                        > thanks for the tip, I'll keep it on file, if I go with a genset.
                        > Ole.
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