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Re: [ham_instructor] Re: Questions about Tecnicians Pool

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  • forbes purcell
    Knowing the basic formulas is best. When I was working a helicopter lost all its belly antennas due to a flock of geese. Because they were PL259 bases and I
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 3, 1988
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      Knowing the basic formulas is best.

      When I was working a helicopter lost all its belly antennas due to a flock of geese. Because they were PL259 bases and I knew the formulas I was able to make tempory ones out of 14 gauge house wire, some PL 259 connectors and silicone calking. Kept the machine flying and saved the company an engineer's trip.

      Forbes VE6FMP




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul Guido
      Fellow instructors, As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice tests based on the future Technicians question pool I would like your
      Message 2 of 20 , May 28, 2009
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        Fellow instructors,

        As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice tests based on the future Technicians question pool I would like your opinion on the two questions below.

        T9A11 (C)
        What is the approximate length, in inches, of a quarter-wavelength vertical antenna for 146 MHz?

        A. 112 inches
        B. 50 inches
        C. 19 inches
        D. 12 inches
        ~~

        T9A12 (C)
        What is the approximate length, in inches, of a 6-meter 1/2 wavelength wire dipole antenna?
        A. 6 inches
        B. 50 inches
        C. 112 inches
        D. 236 inches
        ~~

        Are these questions practical for use in the field?

        In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in inches?

        In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in feet and inches?

        In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in feet and decimals of a foot?

        73,

        N5IUT
      • Robert Schwartz
        Paul, Interesting question; I like the questions for vhf & up to resolve to inches… why? A meter is approximately 39”; 2 meters (146MHz) is 78” or a ¼
        Message 3 of 20 , May 28, 2009
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          Paul,



          Interesting question; I like the questions for vhf & up to resolve to
          inches… why? A meter is approximately 39”;

          2 meters (146MHz) is 78” or a ¼ wavelength is half of 39” or 19.5” – 19” is
          close enough. Almost solvable by inspection.



          The second question – half of 6 meters is 3 meters x 40 is 120” & subtract 3
          it’s 117 inches. 112 is close enough.



          When the distractors are so far away from the desired answer, approximations
          work fine.



          HTH & 73 de KT0T

          Bob Schwartz

          Instructor and VE

          Bloomington, MN

          _____

          From: ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of Paul Guido
          Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:35 PM
          To: ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ham_instructor] Questions about Tecnicians Pool








          Fellow instructors,

          As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice tests
          based on the future Technicians question pool I would like your opinion on
          the two questions below.

          T9A11 (C)
          What is the approximate length, in inches, of a quarter-wavelength vertical
          antenna for 146 MHz?

          A. 112 inches
          B. 50 inches
          C. 19 inches
          D. 12 inches
          ~~

          T9A12 (C)
          What is the approximate length, in inches, of a 6-meter 1/2 wavelength wire
          dipole antenna?
          A. 6 inches
          B. 50 inches
          C. 112 inches
          D. 236 inches
          ~~

          Are these questions practical for use in the field?

          In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in
          inches?

          In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in
          feet and inches?

          In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in
          feet and decimals of a foot?

          73,

          N5IUT





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • AD5PE
          In the field, and in a tech class - I like to keep it simple. 234/f, period. Even for dipoles (it s not a 1/2 wave, it s two 1/4 waves base to base is the
          Message 4 of 20 , May 29, 2009
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            In the field, and in a tech class - I like to keep it simple. 234/f,
            period. Even for dipoles (it's not a 1/2 wave, it's two 1/4 waves base to
            base is the way I explain it). Only one number to remember.

            The math comes out 1.6 feet, which in the field I would convert in my head
            to 1' 6" plus 1/10 of a foot. Since 1/12 of a foot is one inch, and 1/10 is
            slightly bigger than 1/12, its 18" plus a little over an inch. And then I'd
            cut it 1' 7-1/4" and trim after checking the SWR, or maybe 1' 7-1/2" if I
            wasn't sure about ground effects.

            Then again, I have a math degree, so converting decimal feet to inches
            doesn't scare me.

            73,
            Jay
            AD5PE

            -----Original Message-----
            From: ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Paul Guido
            Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 22:35
            To: ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [ham_instructor] Questions about Tecnicians Pool

            Fellow instructors,

            As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice tests
            based on the future Technicians question pool I would like your opinion on
            the two questions below.

            T9A11 (C)
            What is the approximate length, in inches, of a quarter-wavelength vertical
            antenna for 146 MHz?

            A. 112 inches
            B. 50 inches
            C. 19 inches
            D. 12 inches
            ~~

            T9A12 (C)
            What is the approximate length, in inches, of a 6-meter 1/2 wavelength wire
            dipole antenna?
            A. 6 inches
            B. 50 inches
            C. 112 inches
            D. 236 inches
            ~~

            Are these questions practical for use in the field?

            In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in
            inches?

            In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in
            feet and inches?

            In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in
            feet and decimals of a foot?

            73,

            N5IUT



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          • Les Warriner
            I would certainly use them. One of the problems that I am seeing in newly licensed Hams is that they are not conversant in theory or practical matters of the
            Message 5 of 20 , May 29, 2009
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              I would certainly use them. One of the problems that I am seeing in
              newly licensed Hams is that they are not conversant in theory or
              practical matters of the hobby. These two questions are discussions
              held in our classroom and that the students exercise.

              73 Les

              At 08:35 PM 5/28/2009, you wrote:


              >Fellow instructors,
              >
              >As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice
              >tests based on the future Technicians question pool I would like
              >your opinion on the two questions below.
              >
              >T9A11 (C)
              >What is the approximate length, in inches, of a quarter-wavelength
              >vertical antenna for 146 MHz?
              >
              >A. 112 inches
              >B. 50 inches
              >C. 19 inches
              >D. 12 inches
              >~~
              >
              >T9A12 (C)
              >What is the approximate length, in inches, of a 6-meter 1/2
              >wavelength wire dipole antenna?
              >A. 6 inches
              >B. 50 inches
              >C. 112 inches
              >D. 236 inches
              >~~
              >
              >Are these questions practical for use in the field?
              >
              >In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the
              >answer in inches?
              >
              >In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the
              >answer in feet and inches?
              >
              >In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the
              >answer in feet and decimals of a foot?
              >
              >73,
              >
              >N5IUT
              >
              >
              >
              >No virus found in this incoming message.
              >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              >Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.44/2140 - Release Date:
              >05/28/09 18:09:00


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Frank Krizan
              Hi Paul, I feel these questions would be practical for use in the field. In the field, I would use the traditional equations: 234/f and 468/f and then
              Message 6 of 20 , May 29, 2009
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                Hi Paul,

                I feel these questions would be practical for use in the field.

                In the field, I would use the traditional equations: 234/f and 468/f
                and then multiply the answer (in decimal feet) times 12 to get
                inches. That's the way I would present it in class. Creating more
                equations that students have to remember can be confusing. The ideal
                way would be to know the true equations and derive the result using
                velocity factor and unit conversions; however, let's be realistic --
                we're not in engineering or technician (professional) school.

                73, Frank KR1ZAN
                Garland, TX


                On May 28, 2009, at 11:35 PM, Paul Guido wrote:

                >
                >
                > Fellow instructors,
                >
                > As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice
                > tests based on the future Technicians question pool I would like
                > your opinion on the two questions below.
                >
                > T9A11 (C)
                > What is the approximate length, in inches, of a quarter-wavelength
                > vertical antenna for 146 MHz?
                >
                > A. 112 inches
                > B. 50 inches
                > C. 19 inches
                > D. 12 inches
                > ~~
                >
                > T9A12 (C)
                > What is the approximate length, in inches, of a 6-meter 1/2
                > wavelength wire dipole antenna?
                > A. 6 inches
                > B. 50 inches
                > C. 112 inches
                > D. 236 inches
                > ~~
                >
                > Are these questions practical for use in the field?
                >
                > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the
                > answer in inches?
                >
                > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the
                > answer in feet and inches?
                >
                > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the
                > answer in feet and decimals of a foot?
                >
                > 73,
                >
                > N5IUT
                >
                >
                >
              • Bob West
                Paul, I agree with others, these questions are fine as they stand. Inches, imho, are appropriate for VHF/UHF. My tape measure is in inches and 1/2 , 1/4 , 1/8
                Message 7 of 20 , May 29, 2009
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                  Paul,

                  I agree with others, these questions are fine as they stand.

                  Inches, imho, are appropriate for VHF/UHF. My tape measure is
                  in inches and 1/2", 1/4", 1/8" ... not tenths.

                  We set aside the books and study guides for a few minutes.
                  I haul out the "Antenna Fixin's" box with a roll of
                  wire, some metal coat hangers, PL-259s, SO-239s, roll of coax,
                  insulators, rope, and assorted tools. Oh yeah, and an MFJ
                  Antennalyzer.

                  My last class made a quarter wave ground plane. First time they
                  checked it, they got 1.4:1 at 145.0 MHz. They were quite proud
                  of themselves. One person measured the wire, another soldered the
                  vertical to the SO-239, and another bolted the radials onto
                  the 4 tabs. They had fun doing it and felt like they accomlished
                  something.

                  I give them an extra handout to practice quarter wave and half
                  wave calculations, with the several related question pool entries
                  appended to the end. They can work through these and come back
                  with any additional questions. I have them practice frequency
                  and wavelength also.

                  We try to do something "hands-on" each week, or a demo like IRLP
                  or satellite, where they can take the mike and talk to a station.

                  ANYWAY...

                  I'd vote to keep the antenna length questions as they stand. Even
                  add a couple more.

                  FWIW...

                  73,
                  Bob WA8YCD
                  Morgantown WV
                  Monongalia County
                  FM09am
                • R. W. Bytheway, Jr
                  Paul, I must take exception with your thinking as most of the others have done thus far. When I teach this part I tell them that two meters is exactly that,
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 29, 2009
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                    Paul,



                    I must take exception with your thinking as most of the others have done
                    thus far. When I teach this part I tell them that two meters is exactly
                    that, two meters or 76 inches. One meter of course is the 39 inches which
                    is half wave. then half of that is just over 19 inches which is also a
                    quarter wave. Just over a foot and a half is the quarter wave vertical for
                    two meters and that's been understood quite well thus far in my classes.



                    There is every reason that we who teach classes should go over the questions
                    in the particular pools and offer our suggestions on how to make them more
                    applicable for the specific class. In the General pool is a question about
                    what mode of voice is used above 20 meters. Of course Upper Side Band is
                    the correct answer, but the question should be 20 meters and above, not just
                    above 20 meters. Just a slight difference, but it's enough to make this
                    known to the committee.



                    Keep the questions for the group coming Paul, it keeps us on our toes.



                    Vy 73,

                    ~K3DIO Bob





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • k0rgr
                    ... Yes, those questions are fine. Overall, I d prefer to see word problems that demonstrate an understanding of the formulas rather than questions with simple
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 29, 2009
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                      --- In ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Guido" <radioteacher@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Fellow instructors,
                      >
                      > As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice tests based on the future Technicians question pool I would like your opinion on the two questions below.
                      >
                      > T9A11 (C)
                      > What is the approximate length, in inches, of a quarter-wavelength vertical antenna for 146 MHz?
                      >
                      > A. 112 inches
                      > B. 50 inches
                      > C. 19 inches
                      > D. 12 inches
                      > ~~
                      >
                      > T9A12 (C)
                      > What is the approximate length, in inches, of a 6-meter 1/2 wavelength wire dipole antenna?
                      > A. 6 inches
                      > B. 50 inches
                      > C. 112 inches
                      > D. 236 inches
                      > ~~
                      >
                      > Are these questions practical for use in the field?
                      >
                      > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in inches?
                      >
                      > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in feet and inches?
                      >
                      > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer in feet and decimals of a foot?
                      >
                      > 73,
                      >
                      > N5IUT
                      >
                      Yes, those questions are fine.

                      Overall, I'd prefer to see word problems that demonstrate an understanding of the formulas rather than questions with simple numbers for answers. The numbers are just too easy to memorize without understanding anything. But, the 19" antenna for 2 meters is something pretty fundamental, so I'd like to see that one here.
                    • Paul Guido
                      I want to thank everyone for their input on these questions. I was thinking for proposing new questions that have answers in feet and decimals of a foot.
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 29, 2009
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                        I want to thank everyone for their input on these questions. I was thinking
                        for proposing new questions that have answers in feet and decimals of a
                        foot. After reading your responses� I am changing my mind about them.

                        The thing I need to do is to take a new approach in teaching these questions
                        in the HamElmer study guide if they remain in the new Pool. By just
                        producing a classroom study and or self study guide I do not get to interact
                        with my students until after the book is read.

                        Are there any other questions that you would like to change in the current
                        question pool? I see that Bob K3DIO would like to change the USB for 20
                        meters and up question. This is the time to speak up and let NCVEC.org know
                        what you want changed. Remember they prefer that you propose new questions.
                        You can find a feedback form at http://www.ncvec.org/feedback.php

                        73

                        Paul Guido


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Brian Walker
                        Paul, I like the idea of bringing in a meter stick and doing the stuff in Meters... it is the 2 meter band and the 6 meter band... (m and cm work so nicely)...
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 31, 2009
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                          Paul,

                          I like the idea of bringing in a meter stick and doing the stuff in
                          Meters... it is the 2 meter band and the 6 meter band... (m and cm work so
                          nicely)...

                          Most of the antenna google searches turned up J poles in Feet with 1/10ths
                          of Feet....

                          Brian
                          K9BKW

                          On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Paul Guido <radioteacher@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Fellow instructors,
                          >
                          > As we gear up to make a new study guides, presentations and practice tests
                          > based on the future Technicians question pool I would like your opinion on
                          > the two questions below.
                          >
                          > T9A11 (C)
                          > What is the approximate length, in inches, of a quarter-wavelength vertical
                          > antenna for 146 MHz?
                          >
                          > A. 112 inches
                          > B. 50 inches
                          > C. 19 inches
                          > D. 12 inches
                          > ~~
                          >
                          > T9A12 (C)
                          > What is the approximate length, in inches, of a 6-meter 1/2 wavelength wire
                          > dipole antenna?
                          > A. 6 inches
                          > B. 50 inches
                          > C. 112 inches
                          > D. 236 inches
                          > ~~
                          >
                          > Are these questions practical for use in the field?
                          >
                          > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer
                          > in inches?
                          >
                          > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer
                          > in feet and inches?
                          >
                          > In the field, would you use the equation(s) that would provide the answer
                          > in feet and decimals of a foot?
                          >
                          > 73,
                          >
                          > N5IUT
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Robert WE4B
                          PAUL GUIDO N5IUT, An answer to your question. Yes it is needed, I can tell you that after Hurricane Andrew we operated out of Homestead, there were no
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 31, 2009
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                            PAUL GUIDO N5IUT,

                            An answer to your question. Yes it is needed, I can tell you
                            that after Hurricane Andrew we operated out of Homestead,
                            there were no antennas left to be used.

                            There was a ham that brought his equipment but no base antenna.
                            I quickly stated that he should make a 2 meter vertical antenna out
                            of solid home wire (there was a lot of that lying around) and coax.
                            He asked how, I said that the vert element should be 19" for 146 MHz.
                            or 19.5" for 145 MHz. and four ground plane radials 21" long at a slight
                            downward angle. He then asked how did I know this. I stated it was on the
                            license exam. We also covered it in ARES classes on emergency
                            communications. Then someone stated that he needed a SO-239
                            chassis connector, I stated no just some coax with a connector on
                            one end and some coax seal to protect the solder point where the 5
                            wires came together.

                            We built it and used it for a week, until a heavy wind and rain storm
                            took it down. It was just an emergency antenna, and was never made
                            to last. So to have these questions on the test, I think is a good thing
                            to remember.

                            Robert Broderick WE4B
                          • Paul Guido
                            Robert, In asking the original question of this thread I was trying to leave out any bias I have for the questions in the pool. I really think we need to have
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 31, 2009
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                              Robert,

                              In asking the original question of this thread I was trying to leave out any
                              bias I have for the questions in the pool. I really think we need to have
                              these type of questions in the pool but my preference is to have the answers
                              in feet and decimals of a foot not inches.

                              With the help of an technique from instructor from Austin (Jeff Schmidt,
                              N5MNW) I can now teach the 234 and 468 equations in a way that is easy to
                              remember. It is a great mnemonic.

                              Any home repair store has rulers and tapes marked for engineers in feet and
                              decimals of a foot. I even have one that is in feet and inches on the white
                              side of the tape and feet and decimal on the orange side of the tape.

                              I do not know why these questions have to be taught in inches, learned in
                              inches and practiced in inches.

                              As an instructor of students of all ages, I do not believe I can teach them
                              how to think in a short ham class. I really want to teach them a tool that
                              they can remember and use in the field without a handbook.

                              I was going to propose to the NCVEC that the answers feet and decimal format
                              but most of the responses here would like to keep these questions as they
                              are.

                              Basically, I was wondering if the format of the answer to these questions
                              were annoying to everyone or just me. I found out that for the most part it
                              is just me and I am OK with that.

                              As an instructor I feel the need to "Question the Question Pool" at this
                              time in the life cycle of a question pool. I also wonder, "How can I make
                              the Question Pool better?"

                              73

                              Paul Guido, N5IUT


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Robert WE4B
                              Paul Guido, N5IUT, When we instruct in the US, we do not teach in the metric system. We have the formulas for antennas in feet and inches ( 468/ f (MHz.) =
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 1, 2009
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                                Paul Guido, N5IUT,

                                When we instruct in the US, we do not teach in the metric system. We have the formulas
                                for antennas in feet and inches ( 468/ f (MHz.) = length in feet ). I remember the two
                                meter one as 19 inches. Easy! Yes, if you have a meter stick lying around, measure 2
                                meters and you have a 1/4 wave length radiator. Just remember there are a lot more 12
                                inch rulers lying around then their are meter sticks to find a 2 meter radiator during an
                                emergency, or building an antenna from scratch.

                                Paul make your suggestions be known not just here, on this group. The QPC is accepting
                                input for questions to be included in the July 1, 2010 - June 30, 2014 Technician Question
                                Pool. Input submissions to the QPC can be made by filling in the form
                                at: http://www.ncvec.org/feedback.php

                                The QPC is currently working on the Technician Element 2 Question pool that will become
                                effective July 1, 2010. The draft syllabus for the 2010 pool can be reviewed on 2010 Draft
                                Syllabus here: http://www.ncvec.org/page.php?id=355

                                So stand up for your question, draft a new one. Make sure your new test questions has
                                clarity, accuracy, and completeness, and then forward the results to make the possible
                                change to the VEC question pool.

                                I've been a Volunteer Examiners for over 12 years, and I've seen this before. I've told the
                                amateur radio operator to make it better. Many of them did add to the pool. Some of us
                                found errors in the exams ( ARRL VE's remember the stickers that were sent out to cover
                                the mistakes in printing ).

                                You do have a good question, and maybe we should ask the question in feet and meters.
                                But that would mean that the license manuals would need a rewrite. They have to be
                                re-written anyway, so it might work.

                                Paul there is another group I belong to that this thread should be moved to instead of here.
                                It's US Volunteer Examiner Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/usve/

                                This Ham Radio Instructor's Group is for instructing amateur radio classes.
                                This group is for the exchange of teaching ideas and techniques, materials, files, etc. not
                                really the question pool development.

                                Hope that helps you Paul, 73

                                Robert Broderick WE4B
                              • forbespurcell
                                ... This is not an exam input but is practical knowledge. Here is a little trick that one of my former workmates used to do and it would be good for ARES
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 1, 2009
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                                  --- In ham_instructor@yahoogroups.com, Paul Guido <radioteacher@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Robert,
                                  >
                                  > In asking the original question of this thread I was trying to leave out any
                                  > bias I have for the questions in the pool. I really think we need

                                  This is not an exam input but is practical knowledge.

                                  Here is a little trick that one of my former workmates used to do and it would be good for ARES operators.

                                  He measured a 1/4 wave antenna from the tip of his middle finger up his arm for VHF and his hand spread for UHF.

                                  Quick easy and no ruler required, just freckles and birth marks.

                                  Forbes VE6FMP
                                • Robert WE4B
                                  ... Forbes VE6FMP, That s a good one, but what if it s a woman? A lot shorter! Another trick is a CB antenna! Yes I said a CB antenna! I worked as the repair
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 2, 2009
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                                    > This is not an exam input but is practical knowledge.
                                    >
                                    > Here is a little trick that one of my former workmates used to do and it would be good for ARES operators.
                                    >
                                    > He measured a 1/4 wave antenna from the tip of his middle finger up his arm for VHF and his hand spread for UHF.
                                    >
                                    > Quick easy and no ruler required, just freckles and birth marks.
                                    >
                                    > Forbes VE6FMP
                                    >

                                    Forbes VE6FMP,

                                    That's a good one, but what if it's a woman? A lot shorter!
                                    Another trick is a CB antenna! Yes I said a CB antenna!

                                    I worked as the repair tech at the local Amateur Radio Store for 25 years.
                                    In that time we had these guys that have air boats for use in the
                                    Everglades Swamp. Well they did not want 2 antennas, one for CB and
                                    one for two meters or Marine. The K-40 White Lighting antenna gave good
                                    output and SWR for 2 meters! Of course it worked for CB and they mounted a
                                    switch under the seat near the microphone to select the radios.

                                    This antenna was very short fiberglass-wound antenna (maybe 30 "), and
                                    was white with a red tip.
                                    We always kept them in stock for just these guys, and they kept returning
                                    every 5 or 6 years to replace it, and they sent other to buy it.
                                    Whenever I see one at a hamfest, I grab it. It's easy to spot being whit with a
                                    red tip. Something to think about in an emergency.

                                    Robert WE4B
                                  • Steve Bonine, KB9X
                                    ... Another thing along these lines to think about in an emergency: Perfection is not required. During Katrina, the job of our group was to provide
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jun 2, 2009
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                                      On Jun 2, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Robert WE4B wrote:
                                      > Something to think about in an emergency.
                                      >

                                      Another thing along these lines to think about in an emergency:
                                      Perfection is not required. During Katrina, the job of our group was
                                      to provide communications for Red Cross feeding vehicles, which are
                                      equipped with a Red Cross radio but the range was not sufficient for
                                      the area that they needed to cover. These vehicles are almost
                                      completely fiberglass, which makes using a mag mount all but
                                      impossible. But they've got a perfectly good antenna already
                                      mounted. The fact that it's nowhere near resonant at our desired 2-
                                      meter frequency didn't really matter. There was a very effective
                                      repeater system where we were that didn't need a huge signal to access
                                      it; we simply disconnected the coax from the Red Cross radio and
                                      connected it to a 2-meter mobile rig. I'm sure that the transmitter
                                      was displeased and responded by reducing its output into the high SWR,
                                      but the resulting output was more than enough to hit the repeaters.

                                      If you're trying to work real-life knowledge into your classes, it's
                                      great to teach people the "exact right way" but it's also good that
                                      they realize how today's radios react when things are not exactly
                                      perfect.

                                      73, Steve KB9X
                                    • Jeff
                                      we simply disconnected the coax from the Red Cross radio and connected it to a 2-meter mobile rig. I m sure that the transmitter was displeased and responded
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jun 3, 2009
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                                        "we simply disconnected the coax from the Red Cross radio and
                                        connected it to a 2-meter mobile rig. I'm sure that the transmitter
                                        was displeased and responded by reducing its output into the high SWR,
                                        but the resulting output was more than enough to hit the repeaters."

                                        Might be good to put an
                                        "MFJ-921 Dual Band VHF tuner covers 2 Meters/220 MHz."
                                        http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-921

                                        or the like in the old tool bag for just such emergencies. You then get full power
                                        and a happy radio

                                        73
                                        Jeff
                                        WB4WXD



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Steve Bonine, KB9X
                                        ... And exactly the same end result. So I have to ask . . . why? The whole point of what I said was that you don t need to do The Right Thing if a simple
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 3, 2009
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                                          On Jun 3, 2009, at 9:41 AM, Jeff wrote:

                                          > "we simply disconnected the coax from the Red Cross radio and
                                          > connected it to a 2-meter mobile rig. I'm sure that the transmitter
                                          > was displeased and responded by reducing its output into the high SWR,
                                          > but the resulting output was more than enough to hit the repeaters."
                                          >
                                          > Might be good to put an
                                          > "MFJ-921 Dual Band VHF tuner covers 2 Meters/220 MHz."
                                          > http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-921
                                          >
                                          > or the like in the old tool bag for just such emergencies. You then
                                          > get full power
                                          > and a happy radio
                                          >

                                          And exactly the same end result. So I have to ask . . . why? The
                                          whole point of what I said was that you don't need to do The Right
                                          Thing if a simple solution works. I'm not suggesting using a 6-meter
                                          whip on 2 meters long term, but this was not long term. Today's
                                          radios are designed for exactly this kind of scenario; let's take
                                          advantage of that when it's appropriate.

                                          Or, to put it in different words, what's appropriate for long term use
                                          at someone's carefully constructed permanent station may not be
                                          appropriate during a disaster operation. Flexibility is an important
                                          part of the amateur radio repertoire.

                                          73, Steve KB9X
                                        • jeff
                                          ... Good points all around but I respectfully disagree that you get the same result. As a radio technician for over 20 years, I have an inherent problem with
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jun 4, 2009
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                                            >
                                            > And exactly the same end result. So I have to ask . . . why? The
                                            > whole point of what I said was that you don't need to do The Right
                                            > Thing if a simple solution works. I'm not suggesting using a 6-meter
                                            > whip on 2 meters long term, but this was not long term. Today's
                                            > radios are designed for exactly this kind of scenario; let's take
                                            > advantage of that when it's appropriate.
                                            >
                                            > Or, to put it in different words, what's appropriate for long term use
                                            > at someone's carefully constructed permanent station may not be
                                            > appropriate during a disaster operation. Flexibility is an important
                                            > part of the amateur radio repertoire.
                                            >
                                            > 73, Steve KB9X
                                            >
                                            Good points all around but
                                            I respectfully disagree that you get the same result. As a radio technician for over 20 years, I have an inherent problem with assuming that any radio with necessarily fold back and protect itself. I have replaced many finals which have failed due to bad antennas. I agree that "short term" use may not damage the radio but in a disaster, "short term" can stretch into 24 hour a day use for a couple of weeks....I've seen it.
                                            So while I do agree that your point of when all else fails, get the job done, I think if we have the time to prepare, we should consider all the possibilities we can. This includes less than optimum antennas. If I'm using one of my personal radios to benefit others, then I will try to protect it as best I can. I'm sure we can agree to disagree.
                                            Vy 73
                                            Jeff WB4WXD
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