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ICOM 7000 WITH 780

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  • zl1boe2002
    It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e. CAT TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data socket. Maybe some other
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2008
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      It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e. CAT
      TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data socket.
      Maybe some other IC7000 owner can confirm what I am saying?

      This is a pity because the mike socket is not a complete solution for
      digimode connection - no rx audio. Also using the data socket provides
      auto mike socket muting allowing the mike to stay plugged in ready for
      instant voice mode use.

      A future solution for HRD/780 might be to provide the option for the
      7000 to use hardware PTT - via DTR or RTS as needed. However it would
      need to be on the same com port as CAT control like other digimode
      offerings such as MixW, MultiPSK, FLdigi, etc - all of these allow a
      single com port to handle CAT and hardware PTT. Note that for full
      flexibility DTR and RTS need to be separately assignable for PTT or
      always on/always off. This allows the handshake line not used for PTT
      to be used (where needed) to supply power the the interface.

      In general it would seem that hardware PTT is a better choice than CAT
      PTT (or audio triggered PTT like Togertronics etc). With new ARQ
      soundcard modes now in development the timing will become too critical
      for the latter methods.

      Apart from this the 780 could be the preferred dgimode choice for the
      IC7000 - as HRD already is for general rig control!

      73, Chris ZL1BOE
    • Larry
      Is the acc port on the back of the 7000 different than what is on other Icom stuff like 756proIII and 7800? Just asking as I do full rig controls via the 1/8
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2008
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        Is the acc port on the back of the 7000 different than what is on other Icom
        stuff like 756proIII and 7800? Just asking as I do full rig controls via
        the 1/8 port in back and audio goes back and forth on the ACC1 port. I do
        all digi modes with Pro III no problem.



        73 from the Wizard of OZ

        Larry M. Wassman W3OZ

        #1 ARRL DXCC Honor Roll

        Please visit my web page at:

        HYPERLINK "http://www.w3oz.com/"http://www.w3oz.com

        _____

        From: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of zl1boe2002
        Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:46 PM
        To: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] ICOM 7000 WITH 780



        It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e. CAT
        TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data socket.
        Maybe some other IC7000 owner can confirm what I am saying?

        This is a pity because the mike socket is not a complete solution for
        digimode connection - no rx audio. Also using the data socket provides
        auto mike socket muting allowing the mike to stay plugged in ready for
        instant voice mode use.

        A future solution for HRD/780 might be to provide the option for the
        7000 to use hardware PTT - via DTR or RTS as needed. However it would
        need to be on the same com port as CAT control like other digimode
        offerings such as MixW, MultiPSK, FLdigi, etc - all of these allow a
        single com port to handle CAT and hardware PTT. Note that for full
        flexibility DTR and RTS need to be separately assignable for PTT or
        always on/always off. This allows the handshake line not used for PTT
        to be used (where needed) to supply power the the interface.

        In general it would seem that hardware PTT is a better choice than CAT
        PTT (or audio triggered PTT like Togertronics etc). With new ARQ
        soundcard modes now in development the timing will become too critical
        for the latter methods.

        Apart from this the 780 could be the preferred dgimode choice for the
        IC7000 - as HRD already is for general rig control!

        73, Chris ZL1BOE




        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 1/1/2008
        12:09 PM



        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 1/1/2008
        12:09 PM



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • RAY
        Hi Chris, I have the 746PRO and the 756PRO3 and both of these radios must be in USB or LSB Data mode which is indicated by USB-D or LSB for the ACC Socket to
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 1, 2008
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          Hi Chris,

          I have the 746PRO and the 756PRO3 and both of these radios must be in USB or LSB Data mode which is indicated by USB-D or LSB for the ACC Socket to Key and Mite correctlt for the digi-modes. I would think that the IC-7000 follows the same logic so try selecting USB but HOLD the mode button for 1 second this should put the radio into "DATA MODE" and all should work as expected. If I am wrong let me know. Good luck

          73, Ray, N0FY
          SKCC # 3704
          Anoka County Radio Club
          Anoka County ARES
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: zl1boe2002
          To: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:45 PM
          Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] ICOM 7000 WITH 780


          It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e. CAT
          TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data socket.
          Maybe some other IC7000 owner can confirm what I am saying?

          This is a pity because the mike socket is not a complete solution for
          digimode connection - no rx audio. Also using the data socket provides
          auto mike socket muting allowing the mike to stay plugged in ready for
          instant voice mode use.

          A future solution for HRD/780 might be to provide the option for the
          7000 to use hardware PTT - via DTR or RTS as needed. However it would
          need to be on the same com port as CAT control like other digimode
          offerings such as MixW, MultiPSK, FLdigi, etc - all of these allow a
          single com port to handle CAT and hardware PTT. Note that for full
          flexibility DTR and RTS need to be separately assignable for PTT or
          always on/always off. This allows the handshake line not used for PTT
          to be used (where needed) to supply power the the interface.

          In general it would seem that hardware PTT is a better choice than CAT
          PTT (or audio triggered PTT like Togertronics etc). With new ARQ
          soundcard modes now in development the timing will become too critical
          for the latter methods.

          Apart from this the 780 could be the preferred dgimode choice for the
          IC7000 - as HRD already is for general rig control!

          73, Chris ZL1BOE





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • zl1boe2002
          Hi Larry, Thanks for your input. In fact the problem with the Icom 7000 (PTT via CAT/CIV not working) applies only to the the data port (mini 6 pin) and not to
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 2, 2008
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            Hi Larry,

            Thanks for your input.

            In fact the problem with the Icom 7000 (PTT via CAT/CIV not working)
            applies only to the the data port (mini 6 pin) and not to the ACC
            port (13 pin) or mike socket (RJ45). I have now verified this using
            MixW software - which provide both CAT/CIV and hardware PTT options.

            However the data port is the only one that mutes the mike and thus
            allows quick swapping from digimodes to SSB. So with the 7000
            hardware PTT is best for digimodes. No special digimode on the 7000 -
            other than RTTY - but everything works fine using ordinary USB mode
            and filters can be selected from 50Hz to 3600Hz.

            So lets hope that in future the 780 software can provide hardware PTT
            as an option.

            73, Chris ZL1BOE



            --- In ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <w3oz@...> wrote:
            >
            > Is the acc port on the back of the 7000 different than what is on
            other Icom
            > stuff like 756proIII and 7800? Just asking as I do full rig
            controls via
            > the 1/8 port in back and audio goes back and forth on the ACC1
            port. I do
            > all digi modes with Pro III no problem.
            >
            >
            >
            > 73 from the Wizard of OZ
            >
            > Larry M. Wassman W3OZ
            >
            > #1 ARRL DXCC Honor Roll
            >
            > Please visit my web page at:
            >
            > HYPERLINK "http://www.w3oz.com/"http://www.w3oz.com
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of zl1boe2002
            > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:46 PM
            > To: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] ICOM 7000 WITH 780
            >
            >
            >
            > It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e.
            CAT
            > TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data
            socket.
            > Maybe some other IC7000 owner can confirm what I am saying?
            >
            > This is a pity because the mike socket is not a complete solution
            for
            > digimode connection - no rx audio. Also using the data socket
            provides
            > auto mike socket muting allowing the mike to stay plugged in ready
            for
            > instant voice mode use.
            >
            > A future solution for HRD/780 might be to provide the option for
            the
            > 7000 to use hardware PTT - via DTR or RTS as needed. However it
            would
            > need to be on the same com port as CAT control like other digimode
            > offerings such as MixW, MultiPSK, FLdigi, etc - all of these allow
            a
            > single com port to handle CAT and hardware PTT. Note that for full
            > flexibility DTR and RTS need to be separately assignable for PTT or
            > always on/always off. This allows the handshake line not used for
            PTT
            > to be used (where needed) to supply power the the interface.
            >
            > In general it would seem that hardware PTT is a better choice than
            CAT
            > PTT (or audio triggered PTT like Togertronics etc). With new ARQ
            > soundcard modes now in development the timing will become too
            critical
            > for the latter methods.
            >
            > Apart from this the 780 could be the preferred dgimode choice for
            the
            > IC7000 - as HRD already is for general rig control!
            >
            > 73, Chris ZL1BOE
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date:
            1/1/2008
            > 12:09 PM
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date:
            1/1/2008
            > 12:09 PM
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • zl1boe2002
            Hi Ray, Thanks for your input. No data mode as such on the 7000. But USB works fine for all data modes. Problem is that only hardware PTT works with the the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 2, 2008
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              Hi Ray,

              Thanks for your input. No "data mode" as such on the 7000. But USB
              works fine for all data modes. Problem is that only hardware PTT
              works with the the special 6 pin data port. PTT via CAT does work for
              the mike socket and the ACC socket but this requires unplugging the
              mike to avoid a "hot mike" situation.

              So the ideal solution would be if the HRD/780 software combo allowed
              optional hardware PTT (DTR or RTS) on same com port as the CAT/CIV.
              MixW and MultiPSK do this. Apparently the Kenwood TS2000 presents a
              similar problem.

              73, Chris ZL1BOE


              --- In ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "RAY" <WA2HVI@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Chris,
              >
              > I have the 746PRO and the 756PRO3 and both of these radios must be
              in USB or LSB Data mode which is indicated by USB-D or LSB for the
              ACC Socket to Key and Mite correctlt for the digi-modes. I would
              think that the IC-7000 follows the same logic so try selecting USB
              but HOLD the mode button for 1 second this should put the radio
              into "DATA MODE" and all should work as expected. If I am wrong let
              me know. Good luck
              >
              > 73, Ray, N0FY
              > SKCC # 3704
              > Anoka County Radio Club
              > Anoka County ARES
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: zl1boe2002
              > To: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:45 PM
              > Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] ICOM 7000 WITH 780
              >
              >
              > It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e.
              CAT
              > TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data
              socket.
              > Maybe some other IC7000 owner can confirm what I am saying?
              >
              > This is a pity because the mike socket is not a complete solution
              for
              > digimode connection - no rx audio. Also using the data socket
              provides
              > auto mike socket muting allowing the mike to stay plugged in
              ready for
              > instant voice mode use.
              >
              > A future solution for HRD/780 might be to provide the option for
              the
              > 7000 to use hardware PTT - via DTR or RTS as needed. However it
              would
              > need to be on the same com port as CAT control like other
              digimode
              > offerings such as MixW, MultiPSK, FLdigi, etc - all of these
              allow a
              > single com port to handle CAT and hardware PTT. Note that for
              full
              > flexibility DTR and RTS need to be separately assignable for PTT
              or
              > always on/always off. This allows the handshake line not used for
              PTT
              > to be used (where needed) to supply power the the interface.
              >
              > In general it would seem that hardware PTT is a better choice
              than CAT
              > PTT (or audio triggered PTT like Togertronics etc). With new ARQ
              > soundcard modes now in development the timing will become too
              critical
              > for the latter methods.
              >
              > Apart from this the 780 could be the preferred dgimode choice for
              the
              > IC7000 - as HRD already is for general rig control!
              >
              > 73, Chris ZL1BOE
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Larry
              Ok Chris I guess I can not help you as the Pro III does not have a 6 pin din on the back. I go to and from my 756 P3 and my 745 Pro via a little mixer. I
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 2, 2008
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                Ok Chris I guess I can not help you as the Pro III does not have a 6 pin din
                on the back. I go to and from my 756 P3 and my 745 Pro via a little mixer. I
                utilize the Cat/CIV port and the ACC1 port. It works great, but I guess it
                is different on the 7000. I can click on transmit on HRD and it keys the rig
                and that is all I need. I do not use any special interface box for digi
                modes, DM780 does it all. Good luck to you and I am sure someone will be
                able to help you.



                73 from the Wizard of OZ

                Larry M. Wassman W3OZ

                #1 ARRL DXCC Honor Roll

                Please visit my web page at:

                HYPERLINK "http://www.w3oz.com/"http://www.w3oz.com

                _____

                From: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of zl1boe2002
                Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:35 PM
                To: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] Re: ICOM 7000 WITH 780



                Hi Larry,

                Thanks for your input.

                In fact the problem with the Icom 7000 (PTT via CAT/CIV not working)
                applies only to the the data port (mini 6 pin) and not to the ACC
                port (13 pin) or mike socket (RJ45). I have now verified this using
                MixW software - which provide both CAT/CIV and hardware PTT options.

                However the data port is the only one that mutes the mike and thus
                allows quick swapping from digimodes to SSB. So with the 7000
                hardware PTT is best for digimodes. No special digimode on the 7000 -
                other than RTTY - but everything works fine using ordinary USB mode
                and filters can be selected from 50Hz to 3600Hz.

                So lets hope that in future the 780 software can provide hardware PTT
                as an option.

                73, Chris ZL1BOE

                --- In HYPERLINK
                "mailto:ham-radio-deluxe%40yahoogroups.com"ham-radio-deluxe@-yahoogroups.-co
                m, "Larry" <w3oz@...> wrote:
                >
                > Is the acc port on the back of the 7000 different than what is on
                other Icom
                > stuff like 756proIII and 7800? Just asking as I do full rig
                controls via
                > the 1/8 port in back and audio goes back and forth on the ACC1
                port. I do
                > all digi modes with Pro III no problem.
                >
                >
                >
                > 73 from the Wizard of OZ
                >
                > Larry M. Wassman W3OZ
                >
                > #1 ARRL DXCC Honor Roll
                >
                > Please visit my web page at:
                >
                > HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.w3oz.com/"http://www.w3oz.-com/"HYPERLINK
                "http://www.w3oz.com"http://www.w3oz.-com
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: HYPERLINK
                "mailto:ham-radio-deluxe%40yahoogroups.com"ham-radio-deluxe@-yahoogroups.-co
                m
                > [mailto:HYPERLINK
                "mailto:ham-radio-deluxe%40yahoogroups.com"ham-radio-deluxe@-yahoogroups.-co
                m] On Behalf Of zl1boe2002
                > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:46 PM
                > To: HYPERLINK
                "mailto:ham-radio-deluxe%40yahoogroups.com"ham-radio-deluxe@-yahoogroups.-co
                m
                > Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] ICOM 7000 WITH 780
                >
                >
                >
                > It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e.
                CAT
                > TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data
                socket.
                > Maybe some other IC7000 owner can confirm what I am saying?
                >
                > This is a pity because the mike socket is not a complete solution
                for
                > digimode connection - no rx audio. Also using the data socket
                provides
                > auto mike socket muting allowing the mike to stay plugged in ready
                for
                > instant voice mode use.
                >
                > A future solution for HRD/780 might be to provide the option for
                the
                > 7000 to use hardware PTT - via DTR or RTS as needed. However it
                would
                > need to be on the same com port as CAT control like other digimode
                > offerings such as MixW, MultiPSK, FLdigi, etc - all of these allow
                a
                > single com port to handle CAT and hardware PTT. Note that for full
                > flexibility DTR and RTS need to be separately assignable for PTT or
                > always on/always off. This allows the handshake line not used for
                PTT
                > to be used (where needed) to supply power the the interface.
                >
                > In general it would seem that hardware PTT is a better choice than
                CAT
                > PTT (or audio triggered PTT like Togertronics etc). With new ARQ
                > soundcard modes now in development the timing will become too
                critical
                > for the latter methods.
                >
                > Apart from this the 780 could be the preferred dgimode choice for
                the
                > IC7000 - as HRD already is for general rig control!
                >
                > 73, Chris ZL1BOE
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date:
                1/1/2008
                > 12:09 PM
                >
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date:
                1/1/2008
                > 12:09 PM
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008
                11:29 AM



                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008
                11:29 AM



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tony
                Am I missing something here? In the latest beta version DM780 has the option to use a separate serial(COM) port for PTT. Just go to Program Options then the
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 2, 2008
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                  Am I missing something here?
                  In the latest beta version DM780 has the option to use a separate
                  serial(COM) port
                  for PTT. Just go to "Program Options" then the "PTT tab", there you will
                  find a check
                  box to "Enable PTT using a serial(COM) Port" and you can use either DTR or
                  RTS for PTT.

                  73 de Tony, KD4K

                  My Weather Page
                  http://www.kd4k.com
                  My Ham Radio Page
                  http://www.kd4k.com/radio.html
                  Sawnee Mountain (WB4GQX 147.15 +.600) Repeater Page http://www.sawneemtn.org



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of zl1boe2002
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:35 PM
                  To: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] Re: ICOM 7000 WITH 780

                  Hi Larry,

                  Thanks for your input.

                  In fact the problem with the Icom 7000 (PTT via CAT/CIV not working) applies
                  only to the the data port (mini 6 pin) and not to the ACC port (13 pin) or
                  mike socket (RJ45). I have now verified this using MixW software - which
                  provide both CAT/CIV and hardware PTT options.

                  However the data port is the only one that mutes the mike and thus allows
                  quick swapping from digimodes to SSB. So with the 7000 hardware PTT is best
                  for digimodes. No special digimode on the 7000 - other than RTTY - but
                  everything works fine using ordinary USB mode and filters can be selected
                  from 50Hz to 3600Hz.

                  So lets hope that in future the 780 software can provide hardware PTT as an
                  option.

                  73, Chris ZL1BOE



                  --- In ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com, "Larry" <w3oz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Is the acc port on the back of the 7000 different than what is on
                  other Icom
                  > stuff like 756proIII and 7800? Just asking as I do full rig
                  controls via
                  > the 1/8 port in back and audio goes back and forth on the ACC1
                  port. I do
                  > all digi modes with Pro III no problem.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 73 from the Wizard of OZ
                  >
                  > Larry M. Wassman W3OZ
                  >
                  > #1 ARRL DXCC Honor Roll
                  >
                  > Please visit my web page at:
                  >
                  > HYPERLINK "http://www.w3oz.com/"http://www.w3oz.com
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of zl1boe2002
                  > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:46 PM
                  > To: ham-radio-deluxe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [ham-radio-deluxe] ICOM 7000 WITH 780
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > It looks like the IC7000 has the same problem as the TS2000 i.e.
                  CAT
                  > TX/RX control only works with mike jack and not with rear data
                  socket.
                  > Maybe some other IC7000 owner can confirm what I am saying?
                  >
                  > This is a pity because the mike socket is not a complete solution
                  for
                  > digimode connection - no rx audio. Also using the data socket
                  provides
                  > auto mike socket muting allowing the mike to stay plugged in ready
                  for
                  > instant voice mode use.
                  >
                  > A future solution for HRD/780 might be to provide the option for
                  the
                  > 7000 to use hardware PTT - via DTR or RTS as needed. However it
                  would
                  > need to be on the same com port as CAT control like other digimode
                  > offerings such as MixW, MultiPSK, FLdigi, etc - all of these allow
                  a
                  > single com port to handle CAT and hardware PTT. Note that for full
                  > flexibility DTR and RTS need to be separately assignable for PTT or
                  > always on/always off. This allows the handshake line not used for
                  PTT
                  > to be used (where needed) to supply power the the interface.
                  >
                  > In general it would seem that hardware PTT is a better choice than
                  CAT
                  > PTT (or audio triggered PTT like Togertronics etc). With new ARQ
                  > soundcard modes now in development the timing will become too
                  critical
                  > for the latter methods.
                  >
                  > Apart from this the 780 could be the preferred dgimode choice for
                  the
                  > IC7000 - as HRD already is for general rig control!
                  >
                  > 73, Chris ZL1BOE
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date:
                  1/1/2008
                  > 12:09 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date:
                  1/1/2008
                  > 12:09 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >




                  --- S p o n s o r H R D ---
                  Please visit http://www.ham-radio.ch/donations.htm to sponsor the HRD
                  development.

                  --- R e a d M e ---
                  Use the Ham Radio Deluxe User Community forums at
                  http://forums.ham-radio.ch/ if possible.

                  The radios used in this project were supplied by Chris Taylor @ Martin Lynch
                  and Sons of London. http://www.hamradio.co.uk/

                  --- R e a d M e ---

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