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Re: [Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia] Re: Cease Fyah

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  • Edward King
    Freedom Broadcasting Network My Dear Brother , you mentioned that you are only trying to get at the truth? Brother, you can t handle the truth.... You have
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 1, 2007
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      Freedom Broadcasting Network

      "My Dear Brother", you mentioned that you are "only" trying to get at the truth?

      "Brother, you can't handle the truth....

      You have gotten your question answered from four (4) different Esteemed Ethiopian sources,yet you contiune to want to shape Ethiopian history to your way of thinking and belief's.

      1) HIM Emperor Haile Selassie 1, Great-Grand-daughter HIH Princess Esther, her reply as it relates to HIH Princess Romanework.....was short and sweet. Surley HIH would know the history of her family...would you not agree?

      (Author's Note: Fact) As stated before, His Imperial Majesty himself acknowledged as fully legitimate, his daughter by Woizero Altayech, Her Imperial Highness Princess Romanework. Again, Princess Romanework was the only child of the HIM Emperor Haile Selassie 1 by Woizero Altayech (not by HIM Empress Menen Asfaw). HIH Princess Romamework died in a Turin hospital in 1941 after having been imprisoned on Asinara Island along with her children by the fascist Italian government following her capture . Her husband Dejazmatch Beyene Merid had been killed earlier fighting the Italians in southern Ethiopia. Her sons Dejazmatch Samson Beyene and Dejazmatch Merid Beyene were raised by the Emperor and Empress Menen after their mother's death. Dejazmatch Samson Beyene married Woizero Koremtit Andargatchew, step-daughter of his aunt Princess Tenagnework. Their son, Lij Sebiste (Sebastian) Samson, is the Princess Romanework's sole surviving heir. Dejazmatch Merid Beyene died in exile in
      London in 1992 and had no children. HIH Prince Romanework is buried in the Holy Trinity Catherdal, in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia with her father, step-mother and other step-brothers and sisters.

      2) Esteemed Ethiopian Historian Solomon Kibriye a person who's family was the Imperial Court Jewellers to HIM Emperor Haile Selassie 1 for many generations and served other Emperor's before HIM. Surley he and his family would know the "facts not fiction" that he presented.

      3) Ethiopian Imperial Historian and biographer Yared Gebre Micheal writing a historical biography tribute on the occasion of the 67th Birthday of HIM Empress Menen Asfaw, who incidentally did not say the things you misrepresented. Also as a so called scholar you also got your facts incorrect when you tried to calculate the age at birth of HIM Empress Menen Asfaw first child . What you failed misabley to take in consideration is (E.C. stands for "Ethiopian Calander", not the English Calander). I tried repeatly to send the original english translated copy of this document but it would not attach to the group's web-site, so I therefore posted the link from the Rasta web-site that displayed their poor english translation of the document you refered to. I would be more than happy to supply you or anyone else with the proper English translation I have.

      4) The source of the Wikipedia free encyclopedia information on this subject which you also dismissed is taken from noted Ethiopian Ambassador Zewde Retta, from the book "Tafari Makonnen, Rejimu ye Siltan Guzo ("Taffari Makonnen, the Long Journey to Power") Which stated Woizero Menen Asfaw was given in marriage by her family, to the prominent Wollo nobleman, Dejazmach Ali of Cherecha, and bore him a daughter, Woizero Belaynesh Ali, and a son, Jantirar Asfaw Ali. This first marriage ended in divorce, and Woizero Menen then married Dejazmach Amede Ali Aba-Deyas, another very prominent nobleman of Wollo. She bore her second husband two children as well, a daughter Woizero Desta Amede, and a son Jantirar Gebregziabiher Amede.". Following the sudden death of her second husband, Woizero Menen's grandfather, Negus Mikael arranged her marriage to Ras Leul Seged Atnaf Seged, a prominent Shewan nobleman, who was considerably older than Woizero Menen, sometime in late 1909 or early
      1910.

      (Author's Note): As also previously noted, the Empresses earlier children and grandchildren were all honored and respected members of the aristocracy in Addis Ababa, and continue to be close to the Imperial family today.

      You finally revel the source for your mis-information as a decedent of King Sahle Selassie of Shewa. I find this also to be very hypocritical on your part by attempting to contiune to cast a broad-net of suspicion now over the patriarch of the entire Selassie family. You also state that "you do not mean any disrespect or insult to any members of the royal family". Yet you contiune to want to shape Ethiopian historical history and the truth to fit your dogmatic belief. I agree with Brother Ras Simon, it's time to give this subject a rest.

      "Humbley Submitted";
      Edward L. King


      rasfeqade <RasFeqade@...> wrote: --- In haileselassieiofethiopia@yahoogroups.com, rasadam
      <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > Fellow members,
      > after years of little to no activity in our club I am grateful for
      > the postings and life injected in the club this year. That said, I
      > really want to make sure that everytyhing stays firstly on topic and
      > secondly always remains civil. Bro Solomon Kibriye has the most
      > extensive Imperial Ethiopian website and we are grateful for his
      > presence online and in our club with his wealth of information. Bro
      > Ras Feqade is a respected Rastafari scholor who has translated many
      > works ands we are equally glad to have him in our club. I pray that
      > we won't see any dischord on our club site. One things i have found
      > that comes up from time to time is that historical secular facts
      > don't always jive with the view of people of a faith. you can see
      > this in scince and christianity with things like the age of the
      > earth. you may have a Rastafarian who proclaims that Selassie never
      > drank or ate meat and that is their firm "truth" and conviction and
      > then uncover "facts" to the contrary, that while us did those hings
      > vert sparingly..that they DID occur. who is right? who has the truth?
      > both sides will say ME! The thing is, this site was created to be a
      > secular one. It's often hard or impossible for some members to work
      > in those paramiters and because of heir strong faith i overstand why,
      > but its really important to me , as the creator of this site, that it
      > remains that way. while many of our club members may be Rastafarians,
      > this site is really created for all types of people to research and
      > share. Academicians, Rastas, atheists.. anyone... so i want to leave
      > the faith part to the hundreds of rasta sites and leave his one
      > strictly secular. Thanks to you all for your participation and pls
      > let's keep it peaceful and secular. give thnx adam sim
      >

      Give thanks, it's nice to know that everyone here is equally welcome,
      even Rastafarian viewpoints, as well as the non-Rastafarian viewpoints
      are equally welcome here and that shows great equanimity that HIM
      would approve of.

      Everything is peaceful, I just want to 'get to the bottom' of this
      because on the one hand there is definitely very firm rules as to who
      can wear the crown in Ethiopian Church Marriage (no previous
      marriages) and they will not do a "third marriage" at all, for anyone,
      let alone a "fourth".

      On the other hand there is the other claim from the esteemed gentleman
      that Jantirar, the title of Her Majesty's family, could not be given
      to children adopted through marriage.

      I have today passed the question along to Princess Esther's mailing
      list to try to get her input, since she is a grand-daughter of His
      Majesty, and I also mentioned that my friend is a decendant of King
      Sahle Selassie who specifically cautioned me in 1995 not to believe
      any of the tales circulating that His or Her Majesty had ever been
      anything but celibate outside of their one earthly marriage to one
      another.

      The response I got from her family on her mailing list in request for
      their position, was simply to point me to their page where they are
      compiling a comprehensive list of members of the family, here:

      http://afronord.tripod.com/him/page8.html

      Note that on their webpage, underneath the heading for the issue of
      HIM Haile Selassie + Empress Menen, it mentions princess Romanawork as
      the 'oldest daughter' of the two. It does not mention that she had
      any other mother, so this unfortunately does not answer any of the
      questions about the mysterious Altayech who is so hard to find in any
      of the official sources.

      Please believe me when I say that I certainly do not mean any
      disrespect or insult to any members of the royal family, I am only
      trying to resolve the truth and separate it from other claims.

      JAH bless, Ras Feqade I






      Edward L. King

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nicholas Melillo
      BLESSED LOVE What is Truth? 1. AGAIN the twelve were gathered together in the Circle of palm trees, and one of them even Thomas said to the other, What is
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 1, 2007
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        BLESSED LOVE

        What is Truth?

        1. AGAIN the twelve were gathered together in the Circle of palm trees, and one of them even Thomas said to the other, What is Truth? for the same things appear different to different minds, and even to the same mind at different times.What, then, is Truth?
        2. And as they were speaking Yeshua appeared in their midst and said, Truth, one and absolute, is in God alone, for no man, neither any body of men, knoweth that which God alone knoweth, who is the All in All.. To men is Truth revealed, according to their capacity to understand and receive.
        3. The One Truth hath many sides, and one seeth one side only, another seeth another, and some see more than others, according as it is given to them.
        4. Behold this crystal: how the one light its manifest in twelve faces, yea four times twelve, and each face reflecteth one ray of light, and one regardeth one face, and another another, but it is the one crystal and the one light that shineth in all.
        5. Behold again, When one climbeth a mountain and attaining one height, he saith, This is the top of the mountain, let us reach it, and when they have reached that height, lo, they see another beyond it until they come to that height from which no other height is to be seen, if so be they can attain it.
        6. So it is with Truth. I AM the Truth and the Way and the Life, and have given to you the Truth I have received from above. And that which is seen and received by one, is not seen and received by another. That which appeareth true to some, seemeth not true to others. They who are in the valley see not as they who are on the hill top.
        7. But to each, it is the Truth as the one mind seeth it, and for that time, till a higher Truth shall be revealed unto the same: and to the soul which receiveth higher light, shall be given more light. Wherefore condemn not others, that ye be not condemned.
        8. As ye keep the holy Law of Love, which I have given unto you, so shall the Truth be revealed more and more unto you, and the Spirit of Truth which cometh from above shall guide you, albeit through many wanderings, into all Truth, even as the fiery cloud guided the children of Israel through the wilderness.
        9. Be faithful to the light ye have, till a higher light is given to you. Seek more light, and ye shall have abundantly; rest not, till ye find.
        10. God giveth you all Truth, as a ladder with many steps, for the salvation and perfection of the soul, and the truth which seemeth to day, ye will abandon for the higher truth of the morrow. Press ye unto Perfection.
        11. Whoso keepeth the holy Law which I have given, the same shall save their souls, however differently they may see the truths which I have given.
        12. Many shall say unto me, Lord, Lord, we have been zealous for thy Truth. But I shall say unto them, Nay, but, that others may see as ye see, and none other truth beside. Faith without charity is dead. Love is the fulfilling of the Law.
        13. How shall faith in what they receive profit them that hold it in unrighteousness? They who have love have all things, and without love there is nothing worth. Let each hold what they see to be the truth in love, knowing that where love is not, truth is a dead letter and profiteth nothing.
        14. There abide Goodness, and Truth, and Beauty, but the greatest of these is Goodness. If any have hatred to their fellows, and harden their hearts to the creatures of God’s hands, how can they see Truth unto salvation, seeing their eyes are blinded and their hearts are hardened to God’s creation?
        15. As I have reveived the Truth, so have I given it to you. Let each receive it according to their light and ability to understand, and persecute not those who receive it after a different interpretation.
        16. For Truth is the Might of God, and it shall prevail in the end over all errors. But the holy Law which I have given is plain for all, and just and good. Let all observe it for the salvation of their souls.
        Translated from the Gospel of the Nazirens(Gospel of the Holy Twelve)


        rasadam <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        Fellow members,
        after years of little to no activity in our club I am grateful for
        the postings and life injected in the club this year. That said, I
        really want to make sure that everytyhing stays firstly on topic and
        secondly always remains civil. Bro Solomon Kibriye has the most
        extensive Imperial Ethiopian website and we are grateful for his
        presence online and in our club with his wealth of information. Bro
        Ras Feqade is a respected Rastafari scholor who has translated many
        works ands we are equally glad to have him in our club. I pray that
        we won't see any dischord on our club site. One things i have found
        that comes up from time to time is that historical secular facts
        don't always jive with the view of people of a faith. you can see
        this in scince and christianity with things like the age of the
        earth. you may have a Rastafarian who proclaims that Selassie never
        drank or ate meat and that is their firm "truth" and conviction and
        then uncover "facts" to the contrary, that while us did those hings
        vert sparingly..that they DID occur. who is right? who has the truth?
        both sides will say ME! The thing is, this site was created to be a
        secular one. It's often hard or impossible for some members to work
        in those paramiters and because of heir strong faith i overstand why,
        but its really important to me , as the creator of this site, that it
        remains that way. while many of our club members may be Rastafarians,
        this site is really created for all types of people to research and
        share. Academicians, Rastas, atheists.. anyone... so i want to leave
        the faith part to the hundreds of rasta sites and leave his one
        strictly secular. Thanks to you all for your participation and pls
        let's keep it peaceful and secular. give thnx adam sim






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • rasfeqade
        In what sense of the word is this message a Cease fire ? I am only tryoing to defend the honour of His Imperial Majesty and you DOWNcuse me of somehow
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 1, 2007
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          In what sense of the word is this message a "Cease fire"? I am only
          tryoing to defend the honour of His Imperial Majesty and you DOWNcuse
          me of somehow attempting to cast suspicion on Sahle Selassie. JAH
          will judge! MY CANSCIENCE DOES NOT REBUKE I

          --- In haileselassieiofethiopia@yahoogroups.com, Edward King
          <freedomsxm@...> wrote:
          >
          > Freedom Broadcasting Network
          >
          > "My Dear Brother", you mentioned that you are "only" trying to get
          at the truth?
          >
          > "Brother, you can't handle the truth....
          >
          > You have gotten your question answered from four (4) different
          Esteemed Ethiopian sources,yet you contiune to want to shape Ethiopian
          history to your way of thinking and belief's.
          >
          > 1) HIM Emperor Haile Selassie 1, Great-Grand-daughter HIH Princess
          Esther, her reply as it relates to HIH Princess Romanework.....was
          short and sweet. Surley HIH would know the history of her
          family...would you not agree?
          >
          > (Author's Note: Fact) As stated before, His Imperial Majesty
          himself acknowledged as fully legitimate, his daughter by Woizero
          Altayech, Her Imperial Highness Princess Romanework. Again, Princess
          Romanework was the only child of the HIM Emperor Haile Selassie 1 by
          Woizero Altayech (not by HIM Empress Menen Asfaw). HIH Princess
          Romamework died in a Turin hospital in 1941 after having been
          imprisoned on Asinara Island along with her children by the fascist
          Italian government following her capture . Her husband Dejazmatch
          Beyene Merid had been killed earlier fighting the Italians in southern
          Ethiopia. Her sons Dejazmatch Samson Beyene and Dejazmatch Merid
          Beyene were raised by the Emperor and Empress Menen after their
          mother's death. Dejazmatch Samson Beyene married Woizero Koremtit
          Andargatchew, step-daughter of his aunt Princess Tenagnework. Their
          son, Lij Sebiste (Sebastian) Samson, is the Princess Romanework's sole
          surviving heir. Dejazmatch Merid Beyene died in exile in
          > London in 1992 and had no children. HIH Prince Romanework is buried
          in the Holy Trinity Catherdal, in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia with her
          father, step-mother and other step-brothers and sisters.
          >
          > 2) Esteemed Ethiopian Historian Solomon Kibriye a person who's
          family was the Imperial Court Jewellers to HIM Emperor Haile Selassie
          1 for many generations and served other Emperor's before HIM. Surley
          he and his family would know the "facts not fiction" that he presented.
          >
          > 3) Ethiopian Imperial Historian and biographer Yared Gebre Micheal
          writing a historical biography tribute on the occasion of the 67th
          Birthday of HIM Empress Menen Asfaw, who incidentally did not say the
          things you misrepresented. Also as a so called scholar you also got
          your facts incorrect when you tried to calculate the age at birth of
          HIM Empress Menen Asfaw first child . What you failed misabley to take
          in consideration is (E.C. stands for "Ethiopian Calander", not the
          English Calander). I tried repeatly to send the original english
          translated copy of this document but it would not attach to the
          group's web-site, so I therefore posted the link from the Rasta
          web-site that displayed their poor english translation of the document
          you refered to. I would be more than happy to supply you or anyone
          else with the proper English translation I have.
          >
          > 4) The source of the Wikipedia free encyclopedia information on
          this subject which you also dismissed is taken from noted Ethiopian
          Ambassador Zewde Retta, from the book "Tafari Makonnen, Rejimu ye
          Siltan Guzo ("Taffari Makonnen, the Long Journey to Power") Which
          stated Woizero Menen Asfaw was given in marriage by her family, to the
          prominent Wollo nobleman, Dejazmach Ali of Cherecha, and bore him a
          daughter, Woizero Belaynesh Ali, and a son, Jantirar Asfaw Ali. This
          first marriage ended in divorce, and Woizero Menen then married
          Dejazmach Amede Ali Aba-Deyas, another very prominent nobleman of
          Wollo. She bore her second husband two children as well, a daughter
          Woizero Desta Amede, and a son Jantirar Gebregziabiher Amede.".
          Following the sudden death of her second husband, Woizero Menen's
          grandfather, Negus Mikael arranged her marriage to Ras Leul Seged
          Atnaf Seged, a prominent Shewan nobleman, who was considerably older
          than Woizero Menen, sometime in late 1909 or early
          > 1910.
          >
          > (Author's Note): As also previously noted, the Empresses earlier
          children and grandchildren were all honored and respected members of
          the aristocracy in Addis Ababa, and continue to be close to the
          Imperial family today.
          >
          > You finally revel the source for your mis-information as a
          decedent of King Sahle Selassie of Shewa. I find this also to be very
          hypocritical on your part by attempting to contiune to cast a
          broad-net of suspicion now over the patriarch of the entire Selassie
          family. You also state that "you do not mean any disrespect or insult
          to any members of the royal family". Yet you contiune to want to shape
          Ethiopian historical history and the truth to fit your dogmatic
          belief. I agree with Brother Ras Simon, it's time to give this subject
          a rest.
          >
          > "Humbley Submitted";
          > Edward L. King
          >
          >
          > rasfeqade <RasFeqade@...> wrote: --- In
          haileselassieiofethiopia@yahoogroups.com, rasadam
          > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Fellow members,
          > > after years of little to no activity in our club I am grateful for
          > > the postings and life injected in the club this year. That said, I
          > > really want to make sure that everytyhing stays firstly on topic and
          > > secondly always remains civil. Bro Solomon Kibriye has the most
          > > extensive Imperial Ethiopian website and we are grateful for his
          > > presence online and in our club with his wealth of information. Bro
          > > Ras Feqade is a respected Rastafari scholor who has translated many
          > > works ands we are equally glad to have him in our club. I pray that
          > > we won't see any dischord on our club site. One things i have found
          > > that comes up from time to time is that historical secular facts
          > > don't always jive with the view of people of a faith. you can see
          > > this in scince and christianity with things like the age of the
          > > earth. you may have a Rastafarian who proclaims that Selassie never
          > > drank or ate meat and that is their firm "truth" and conviction and
          > > then uncover "facts" to the contrary, that while us did those hings
          > > vert sparingly..that they DID occur. who is right? who has the truth?
          > > both sides will say ME! The thing is, this site was created to be a
          > > secular one. It's often hard or impossible for some members to work
          > > in those paramiters and because of heir strong faith i overstand why,
          > > but its really important to me , as the creator of this site, that it
          > > remains that way. while many of our club members may be Rastafarians,
          > > this site is really created for all types of people to research and
          > > share. Academicians, Rastas, atheists.. anyone... so i want to leave
          > > the faith part to the hundreds of rasta sites and leave his one
          > > strictly secular. Thanks to you all for your participation and pls
          > > let's keep it peaceful and secular. give thnx adam sim
          > >
          >
          > Give thanks, it's nice to know that everyone here is equally welcome,
          > even Rastafarian viewpoints, as well as the non-Rastafarian viewpoints
          > are equally welcome here and that shows great equanimity that HIM
          > would approve of.
          >
          > Everything is peaceful, I just want to 'get to the bottom' of this
          > because on the one hand there is definitely very firm rules as to who
          > can wear the crown in Ethiopian Church Marriage (no previous
          > marriages) and they will not do a "third marriage" at all, for anyone,
          > let alone a "fourth".
          >
          > On the other hand there is the other claim from the esteemed gentleman
          > that Jantirar, the title of Her Majesty's family, could not be given
          > to children adopted through marriage.
          >
          > I have today passed the question along to Princess Esther's mailing
          > list to try to get her input, since she is a grand-daughter of His
          > Majesty, and I also mentioned that my friend is a decendant of King
          > Sahle Selassie who specifically cautioned me in 1995 not to believe
          > any of the tales circulating that His or Her Majesty had ever been
          > anything but celibate outside of their one earthly marriage to one
          > another.
          >
          > The response I got from her family on her mailing list in request for
          > their position, was simply to point me to their page where they are
          > compiling a comprehensive list of members of the family, here:
          >
          > http://afronord.tripod.com/him/page8.html
          >
          > Note that on their webpage, underneath the heading for the issue of
          > HIM Haile Selassie + Empress Menen, it mentions princess Romanawork as
          > the 'oldest daughter' of the two. It does not mention that she had
          > any other mother, so this unfortunately does not answer any of the
          > questions about the mysterious Altayech who is so hard to find in any
          > of the official sources.
          >
          > Please believe me when I say that I certainly do not mean any
          > disrespect or insult to any members of the royal family, I am only
          > trying to resolve the truth and separate it from other claims.
          >
          > JAH bless, Ras Feqade I
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Edward L. King
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • rasfeqade
          ... at the truth? ... Esteemed Ethiopian sources,yet you contiune to want to shape Ethiopian history to your way of thinking and belief s. ... Esther, her
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 1, 2007
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            --- In haileselassieiofethiopia@yahoogroups.com, Edward King
            <freedomsxm@...> wrote:
            >
            > Freedom Broadcasting Network
            >
            > "My Dear Brother", you mentioned that you are "only" trying to get
            at the truth?
            >
            > "Brother, you can't handle the truth....
            >
            > You have gotten your question answered from four (4) different
            Esteemed Ethiopian sources,yet you contiune to want to shape Ethiopian
            history to your way of thinking and belief's.
            >
            > 1) HIM Emperor Haile Selassie 1, Great-Grand-daughter HIH Princess
            Esther, her reply as it relates to HIH Princess Romanework.....was
            short and sweet. Surley HIH would know the history of her
            family...would you not agree?


            Let's keep our facts straight. The reply, from her husband, merely
            contained a single link to one of her web pages, on that web page
            NOTHING is mention about Altayech, it describes Romanawork as the
            oldest daughter of HIM Haile Selassie I and Empress Menen. I'm sure
            you have an explanation for that too.

            Ras F
          • rasfeqade
            ... writing a historical biography tribute on the occasion of the 67th Birthday of HIM Empress Menen Asfaw, who incidentally did not say the things you
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 1, 2007
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              > 3) Ethiopian Imperial Historian and biographer Yared Gebre Micheal
              writing a historical biography tribute on the occasion of the 67th
              Birthday of HIM Empress Menen Asfaw, who incidentally did not say the
              things you misrepresented. Also as a so called scholar you also got
              your facts incorrect when you tried to calculate the age at birth of
              HIM Empress Menen Asfaw first child . What you failed misabley to take
              in consideration is (E.C. stands for "Ethiopian Calander", not the
              English Calander). I tried repeatly to send the original english
              translated copy of this document but it would not attach to the
              group's web-site, so I therefore posted the link from the Rasta
              web-site that displayed their poor english translation of the document
              you refered to. I would be more than happy to supply you or anyone
              else with the proper English translation I have.
              >

              The only version of this account I saw is at the webpage you provided,
              in very broken English, on web page # 3 he says (if I am interpreting
              correctly) that what he says for the period before 1924 AD may be
              inaccurate. On web page #1 he seems to say that in 1892 (ie 1900 AD
              when she was 9) Woyzero Menen "legally married" and bore four
              children. I even quoted the document in question word for word in
              my previous message. What have I got incorrect? If this is not what
              the historian says, please elucidate me as to what you think he says.

              Peace,
              Ras F
            • solomon kibriye
              RasFeqade , I only have respect for Rastafarians, who after all, stood by the Emperor during the worst times when those of us living in Ethiopia could be shot
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 1, 2007
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                RasFeqade
                ,
                I only have respect for Rastafarians, who after all, stood by the Emperor during the worst times when those of us living in Ethiopia could be shot simply for having his picture in our homes. I do not want to belittle your faith and your loyalty. Please do not take my point of view as such. I am a person primarily interested in the history of the Ethiopian monarchy, in the vast contribution of Emperor Haile Selassie to his country and to the people of the world, and in preserving the legacy and the heritage associated with both. As this is the case, I am a person that has made it my mission to repudiate all the lies, distortions falsehoods and mistakes that have been perpetuated since the rise of the Derg in 1974. I debate you in the spirit of brotherhood and hope that you do the same.

                As for the passage quoted below from Yared Gebre Mikael's essay on the occasion of Empress Menen's 67th birthday, Her Imperial Majesty entered her first legal marriage in that year, and then had children. The author does not mean she had 4 children in that year, it is just a very poor English translation. As you know, direct and accurate translations are not always easy from any language into any other, and the person who translated this particular document did a particularly bad job.

                H.I.H. Princess Esther Fikre Selassie (a great-granddaughter of Emperor Haile Selassie and granddaughter of Emperor-in-Exile Amha Selassie) directed you to a page that she administers that states Princess Romanework was the eldest child of both their Imperial Majesties. In Ethiopian tradition, when a couple marries, any children from previous marriages are expected to render the respect due to a parent to their new step-parent. The new step-parent is expected to treat such children as their own. Her Imperial Majesty was a very devoutly religious and exceedingly kind person. She would never refer to His Majesty's daughter her as not being her daughter. The family would of course refer to the Princess as the daughter of both their Majesties. Princess Esther is doing exactly what any well brought up Ethiopian would do and refers to the Princess as the child of both their Majesties, as the Empress would no doubt have regarded Princess Romanework as her daughter. The
                Empress' children also owed the respect and honor of a parent to His Majesty. The only difference was the fact that while Princess Romanework, being the daughter of Emperor Haile Selassie I, and being legitimate, was entitled to the dignity of Imperial Highness and the title of Princess. The Empress Menen's children however were not of Imperial blood, and although they were to be regarded by the Emperor as his children, they were not entitled to the titles of Princes and Princesses, nor did they receive the dignity of Imperial Highness. They were entitled to the hereditary title of Jantirar from the family of Her Imperial Majesty (one of the few hereditary titles in Ethiopia). The first child born to the marriage of Emperor Haile Selassie and Empress Menen was H.I.H. Princess Tenagnework.

                You stated that your source was "a decendent of Sahle Selassie", King (Nigus) of Shewa. This is a group of people that is extremely vast. King Sahle Selassie was the first member of the Shewan branch of the Imperial dynasty to assume the title of King. He was succeeded by his son King Haile Melekot, father of Emperor Menelik II. The best known members of the Shewan branch of the dynasty are the decendants of his more prominent offspring. Namely, his sons King Haile Melekot (ancestor of Emperor Menelik II, Lij Eyasu or Eyasu V, Empress Zewditu), Abeto Seyfu (father of Dejazmatch Meshesha Seyfu, great-grandfather of Woizero Sakamyelesh Seyfu etc), Ras Darge (ancestor of Ras Kassa Hailu, Prince Asrate Kassa etc.) Merid Azmatch Haile Mikael (ancestor of Dejazmatch Taye Gulilat etc), and his daughters Woizero Tenagnework (ancestor of Emperor Haile Selassie, his brother Dejazmatch Yilma Makonnen, Ras Imiru etc.) and Woizero Ayahilush (ancestor of King Wolde Giorgis of
                Gondar etc). Most of these people each have numerous descendants. However, King Sahle Selassie had numerous other, less prominent children who had multitudes of descendants. Indeed, when Empress Zewditu was preparing to be crowned Empress of Ethiopia in 1917, and decisions were being made as to who would be granted the titles of "Leul" (Prince) and "Leult" (Princess), the Empress made it known that other than the heads of the various branches of the Imperial family (such as Ras Hailu of Gojjam and Ras Seyoum of Tigrai) and the Crown Prince Ras Taffari Makonnen and their wives, she also wanted all the descendants of King Sahle Selassie made Princes and Princesses. Coronets, tiaras and gold encrusted robes began to be distributed to be worn by these new Princes and Princesses, when suddenly it was realized that the descendants of the King were more numerous than the number of Rases, Dejazmatches, and Fitawraris combined. It was decided to revoke the granting of the
                titles because the title would be seriously devalued if given to the hordes of people known to be descendants of Sahle Selassie of Shewa. Today, 90 years later, the number of descendants has multiplied even more. A person being a descendant of Sahle Selassie does not mean they had proximity to the throne in anything other than blood. Even being a close blood relative to the reigning Emperor does not guarantee knowledge. After King Edward VIII abdicated the British throne and became Duke of Windsor, he was asked by someone how exactly the British royal family was related to the royal family of Hesse-Darmstadt (a German principality that produced the wife of the last Czar of Russia). Even though he had once been King and head of the British Royal family, the Duke is said to have replied "I'll have to ask my mother about that...she would know."

                I'm not sure why the existence of His Majesty's eldest daughter, or Her Majesty's children is such a threat to be battled. She is on every official version of the Imperial Family Tree and on every geneology of the House of Solomon published both inside and outside Ethiopia. No one dared to question the parentage of Princess Romanework Haile Selassie before the events of 1974 sent Ethiopia into a downward spiral. The fact that people would imply today that she was not legitimate, or was adopted or even that she didn't exist is a direct result of the propaganda and misinformation of the Derg era. It is part of the movement to strip Ethiopia of it's history and reduce history and fact to mere rumor and legend. It is sad indeed. RasFeqade and people like him do not question this for malicious reasons, but the people who knowingly misinform them are the ones that I blame.

                Solomon Kibriye

                rasfeqade <RasFeqade@...> wrote:
                > 3) Ethiopian Imperial Historian and biographer Yared Gebre Micheal
                writing a historical biography tribute on the occasion of the 67th
                Birthday of HIM Empress Menen Asfaw, who incidentally did not say the
                things you misrepresented. Also as a so called scholar you also got
                your facts incorrect when you tried to calculate the age at birth of
                HIM Empress Menen Asfaw first child . What you failed misabley to take
                in consideration is (E.C. stands for "Ethiopian Calander", not the
                English Calander). I tried repeatly to send the original english
                translated copy of this document but it would not attach to the
                group's web-site, so I therefore posted the link from the Rasta
                web-site that displayed their poor english translation of the document
                you refered to. I would be more than happy to supply you or anyone
                else with the proper English translation I have.
                >

                The only version of this account I saw is at the webpage you provided,
                in very broken English, on web page # 3 he says (if I am interpreting
                correctly) that what he says for the period before 1924 AD may be
                inaccurate. On web page #1 he seems to say that in 1892 (ie 1900 AD
                when she was 9) Woyzero Menen "legally married" and bore four
                children. I even quoted the document in question word for word in
                my previous message. What have I got incorrect? If this is not what
                the historian says, please elucidate me as to what you think he says.

                Peace,
                Ras F






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              • rasfeqade
                Dear Solomon, First of all, I thank you for debating me on a dignified level, and without resorting to Mesqa ...! I can easily believe everything you say
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Solomon,

                  First of all, I thank you for debating me on a dignified level, and
                  without resorting to 'Mesqa'...!

                  I can easily believe everything you say about Sahle Selassie having a
                  vast number of descendants... The source who told me my information
                  was certainly not a Derg agent, he was in fact a devout Ethiopian
                  Rasta bahitawi with dreadlocks past his shoulders and he accepted the
                  Divinity of His Majesty as I do. His name is Tewodros (Teddy), this
                  was in 1995 in Minnesota where I was living at that time, and he was
                  approximately 40 years old at that time. I have not seen him since
                  then. He actually claimed to have grown up in the Imperial court and
                  not just to be the descendant of Sahle Selassie, but to be the
                  immediate descendant of one of the more prominent figures;
                  unfortunately I can no longer remember which name it was. The only
                  reason I remember 'Sahle Selassie' is because his name is mentioned in
                  the 1955 Constitution, and we had been joking about that, of course my
                  friend is nowhere near the top of the succession so that was only a
                  joke. I know all this sounds sketchy but maybe someone reading this
                  will recognize enough information and may even know whom I am talking
                  about.

                  Even at that time (1995) I had already heard rumors from Derg-educated
                  Ethiopians about His Majesty having a previous marriage to Altayech,
                  as well as even baser rumors that he had several mistresses after, and
                  even during, his marriage to Empress Menen; so I deliberately asked my
                  friend Tewodros about this, and I still remember his response well.
                  His exact words were: "No. His Imperial had only one wife in His
                  Lifetime, to whom He always remained faithful, and after she passed,
                  He remained perfectly celibate. You must remember what He wrote in
                  His Autobiography Preface about the lengths to which people will go to
                  discredit the facts about Him." So I will leave it at that. I
                  sincerely mean no offense to anyone. I am also perfectly willing to
                  accept what Princess Esther has written on her website.


                  With regards,
                  Ras Feqade I



                  --- In haileselassieiofethiopia@yahoogroups.com, solomon kibriye
                  <skibriye@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > RasFeqade
                  > ,
                  > I only have respect for Rastafarians, who after all, stood by the
                  Emperor during the worst times when those of us living in Ethiopia
                  could be shot simply for having his picture in our homes. I do not
                  want to belittle your faith and your loyalty. Please do not take my
                  point of view as such. I am a person primarily interested in the
                  history of the Ethiopian monarchy, in the vast contribution of Emperor
                  Haile Selassie to his country and to the people of the world, and in
                  preserving the legacy and the heritage associated with both. As this
                  is the case, I am a person that has made it my mission to repudiate
                  all the lies, distortions falsehoods and mistakes that have been
                  perpetuated since the rise of the Derg in 1974. I debate you in the
                  spirit of brotherhood and hope that you do the same.
                  >
                  > As for the passage quoted below from Yared Gebre Mikael's essay on
                  the occasion of Empress Menen's 67th birthday, Her Imperial Majesty
                  entered her first legal marriage in that year, and then had children.
                  The author does not mean she had 4 children in that year, it is just
                  a very poor English translation. As you know, direct and accurate
                  translations are not always easy from any language into any other, and
                  the person who translated this particular document did a particularly
                  bad job.
                  >
                  > H.I.H. Princess Esther Fikre Selassie (a great-granddaughter of
                  Emperor Haile Selassie and granddaughter of Emperor-in-Exile Amha
                  Selassie) directed you to a page that she administers that states
                  Princess Romanework was the eldest child of both their Imperial
                  Majesties. In Ethiopian tradition, when a couple marries, any
                  children from previous marriages are expected to render the respect
                  due to a parent to their new step-parent. The new step-parent is
                  expected to treat such children as their own. Her Imperial Majesty
                  was a very devoutly religious and exceedingly kind person. She would
                  never refer to His Majesty's daughter her as not being her daughter.
                  The family would of course refer to the Princess as the daughter of
                  both their Majesties. Princess Esther is doing exactly what any well
                  brought up Ethiopian would do and refers to the Princess as the child
                  of both their Majesties, as the Empress would no doubt have regarded
                  Princess Romanework as her daughter. The
                  > Empress' children also owed the respect and honor of a parent to
                  His Majesty. The only difference was the fact that while Princess
                  Romanework, being the daughter of Emperor Haile Selassie I, and being
                  legitimate, was entitled to the dignity of Imperial Highness and the
                  title of Princess. The Empress Menen's children however were not of
                  Imperial blood, and although they were to be regarded by the Emperor
                  as his children, they were not entitled to the titles of Princes and
                  Princesses, nor did they receive the dignity of Imperial Highness.
                  They were entitled to the hereditary title of Jantirar from the family
                  of Her Imperial Majesty (one of the few hereditary titles in
                  Ethiopia). The first child born to the marriage of Emperor Haile
                  Selassie and Empress Menen was H.I.H. Princess Tenagnework.
                  >
                  > You stated that your source was "a decendent of Sahle Selassie",
                  King (Nigus) of Shewa. This is a group of people that is extremely
                  vast. King Sahle Selassie was the first member of the Shewan branch
                  of the Imperial dynasty to assume the title of King. He was succeeded
                  by his son King Haile Melekot, father of Emperor Menelik II. The best
                  known members of the Shewan branch of the dynasty are the decendants
                  of his more prominent offspring. Namely, his sons King Haile Melekot
                  (ancestor of Emperor Menelik II, Lij Eyasu or Eyasu V, Empress
                  Zewditu), Abeto Seyfu (father of Dejazmatch Meshesha Seyfu,
                  great-grandfather of Woizero Sakamyelesh Seyfu etc), Ras Darge
                  (ancestor of Ras Kassa Hailu, Prince Asrate Kassa etc.) Merid Azmatch
                  Haile Mikael (ancestor of Dejazmatch Taye Gulilat etc), and his
                  daughters Woizero Tenagnework (ancestor of Emperor Haile Selassie, his
                  brother Dejazmatch Yilma Makonnen, Ras Imiru etc.) and Woizero
                  Ayahilush (ancestor of King Wolde Giorgis of
                  > Gondar etc). Most of these people each have numerous descendants.
                  However, King Sahle Selassie had numerous other, less prominent
                  children who had multitudes of descendants. Indeed, when Empress
                  Zewditu was preparing to be crowned Empress of Ethiopia in 1917, and
                  decisions were being made as to who would be granted the titles of
                  "Leul" (Prince) and "Leult" (Princess), the Empress made it known that
                  other than the heads of the various branches of the Imperial family
                  (such as Ras Hailu of Gojjam and Ras Seyoum of Tigrai) and the Crown
                  Prince Ras Taffari Makonnen and their wives, she also wanted all the
                  descendants of King Sahle Selassie made Princes and Princesses.
                  Coronets, tiaras and gold encrusted robes began to be distributed to
                  be worn by these new Princes and Princesses, when suddenly it was
                  realized that the descendants of the King were more numerous than the
                  number of Rases, Dejazmatches, and Fitawraris combined. It was
                  decided to revoke the granting of the
                  > titles because the title would be seriously devalued if given to
                  the hordes of people known to be descendants of Sahle Selassie of
                  Shewa. Today, 90 years later, the number of descendants has
                  multiplied even more. A person being a descendant of Sahle Selassie
                  does not mean they had proximity to the throne in anything other than
                  blood. Even being a close blood relative to the reigning Emperor does
                  not guarantee knowledge. After King Edward VIII abdicated the British
                  throne and became Duke of Windsor, he was asked by someone how exactly
                  the British royal family was related to the royal family of
                  Hesse-Darmstadt (a German principality that produced the wife of the
                  last Czar of Russia). Even though he had once been King and head of
                  the British Royal family, the Duke is said to have replied "I'll have
                  to ask my mother about that...she would know."
                  >
                  > I'm not sure why the existence of His Majesty's eldest daughter, or
                  Her Majesty's children is such a threat to be battled. She is on
                  every official version of the Imperial Family Tree and on every
                  geneology of the House of Solomon published both inside and outside
                  Ethiopia. No one dared to question the parentage of Princess
                  Romanework Haile Selassie before the events of 1974 sent Ethiopia into
                  a downward spiral. The fact that people would imply today that she
                  was not legitimate, or was adopted or even that she didn't exist is a
                  direct result of the propaganda and misinformation of the Derg era.
                  It is part of the movement to strip Ethiopia of it's history and
                  reduce history and fact to mere rumor and legend. It is sad indeed.
                  RasFeqade and people like him do not question this for malicious
                  reasons, but the people who knowingly misinform them are the ones that
                  I blame.
                  >
                  > Solomon Kibriye
                • Khan Chi
                  1) In Ethiopian tradition, when a couple marries, any children from previous marriages are expected to render the respect due to a parent to their new
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    1) "In Ethiopian tradition, when a couple marries, any children from previous marriages are expected to render the respect due to a parent to their new step-parent. The new step-parent is expected to treat such children as their own. Her Imperial Majesty was a very devoutly religious and exceedingly kind person. She would never refer to His Majesty's daughter her as not being her daughter."

                    Can this be used to determine weather Princess Romanework was or was not a child of H.I.M. and Her.I.M. Because it was practice does this mean that thats what happened?

                    2) "Princess Esther is doing exactly what any well brought up Ethiopian would do and refers to the Princess as the child of both their Majesties, as the Empress would no doubt have regarded Princess Romanework as her daughter."

                    Or she could be telling you something else.....????

                    3)"King Sahle Selassie was the first member of the Shewan branch of the Imperial dynasty to assume the title of King. He was succeeded by his son King Haile Melekot, father of Emperor Menelik II."

                    & "Most of these people each have numerous descendants. However, King Sahle Selassie had numerous other, less prominent children who had multitudes of descendants." Then

                    "Even being a close blood relative to the reigning Emperor does not guarantee knowledge."

                    So how do Someone determine which blood relative gurantee knowledge? anyone anybody knows? Cus if a discussion between two that have "sources in the imperial family" is goin on and both of them cliam they have a better source. I guess others reading should just pick one?

                    4) "I'm not sure why the existence of His Majesty's eldest daughter, or Her Majesty's children is such a threat to be battled"

                    Since some peoples faith have to do with the corectness of the matter. Mayb its a treat a of 'Biblical Proportions'?

                    5) "No one dared to question the parentage of Princess Romanework Haile Selassie before the events of 1974 sent Ethiopia into a downward spiral."

                    I think then the truth would have been clear then and there would have been no reason to question.

                    Is there anybody else reading that can add to or mayb clear up this conversation???


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: solomon kibriye <skibriye@...>
                    To: haileselassieiofethiopia@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 9:14:42 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia] Re: Cease Fyah

                    RasFeqade
                    ,
                    I only have respect for Rastafarians, who after all, stood by the Emperor during the worst times when those of us living in Ethiopia could be shot simply for having his picture in our homes. I do not want to belittle your faith and your loyalty. Please do not take my point of view as such. I am a person primarily interested in the history of the Ethiopian monarchy, in the vast contribution of Emperor Haile Selassie to his country and to the people of the world, and in preserving the legacy and the heritage associated with both. As this is the case, I am a person that has made it my mission to repudiate all the lies, distortions falsehoods and mistakes that have been perpetuated since the rise of the Derg in 1974. I debate you in the spirit of brotherhood and hope that you do the same.

                    As for the passage quoted below from Yared Gebre Mikael's essay on the occasion of Empress Menen's 67th birthday, Her Imperial Majesty entered her first legal marriage in that year, and then had children. The author does not mean she had 4 children in that year, it is just a very poor English translation. As you know, direct and accurate translations are not always easy from any language into any other, and the person who translated this particular document did a particularly bad job.

                    H.I.H. Princess Esther Fikre Selassie (a great-granddaughter of Emperor Haile Selassie and granddaughter of Emperor-in-Exile Amha Selassie) directed you to a page that she administers that states Princess Romanework was the eldest child of both their Imperial Majesties. In Ethiopian tradition, when a couple marries, any children from previous marriages are expected to render the respect due to a parent to their new step-parent. The new step-parent is expected to treat such children as their own. Her Imperial Majesty was a very devoutly religious and exceedingly kind person. She would never refer to His Majesty's daughter her as not being her daughter. The family would of course refer to the Princess as the daughter of both their Majesties. Princess Esther is doing exactly what any well brought up Ethiopian would do and refers to the Princess as the child of both their Majesties, as the Empress would no doubt have regarded Princess Romanework as her daughter. The
                    Empress' children also owed the respect and honor of a parent to His Majesty. The only difference was the fact that while Princess Romanework, being the daughter of Emperor Haile Selassie I, and being legitimate, was entitled to the dignity of Imperial Highness and the title of Princess. The Empress Menen's children however were not of Imperial blood, and although they were to be regarded by the Emperor as his children, they were not entitled to the titles of Princes and Princesses, nor did they receive the dignity of Imperial Highness. They were entitled to the hereditary title of Jantirar from the family of Her Imperial Majesty (one of the few hereditary titles in Ethiopia). The first child born to the marriage of Emperor Haile Selassie and Empress Menen was H.I.H. Princess Tenagnework.

                    You stated that your source was "a decendent of Sahle Selassie", King (Nigus) of Shewa. This is a group of people that is extremely vast. King Sahle Selassie was the first member of the Shewan branch of the Imperial dynasty to assume the title of King. He was succeeded by his son King Haile Melekot, father of Emperor Menelik II. The best known members of the Shewan branch of the dynasty are the decendants of his more prominent offspring. Namely, his sons King Haile Melekot (ancestor of Emperor Menelik II, Lij Eyasu or Eyasu V, Empress Zewditu), Abeto Seyfu (father of Dejazmatch Meshesha Seyfu, great-grandfather of Woizero Sakamyelesh Seyfu etc), Ras Darge (ancestor of Ras Kassa Hailu, Prince Asrate Kassa etc.) Merid Azmatch Haile Mikael (ancestor of Dejazmatch Taye Gulilat etc), and his daughters Woizero Tenagnework (ancestor of Emperor Haile Selassie, his brother Dejazmatch Yilma Makonnen, Ras Imiru etc.) and Woizero Ayahilush (ancestor of King Wolde Giorgis of
                    Gondar etc). Most of these people each have numerous descendants. However, King Sahle Selassie had numerous other, less prominent children who had multitudes of descendants. Indeed, when Empress Zewditu was preparing to be crowned Empress of Ethiopia in 1917, and decisions were being made as to who would be granted the titles of "Leul" (Prince) and "Leult" (Princess), the Empress made it known that other than the heads of the various branches of the Imperial family (such as Ras Hailu of Gojjam and Ras Seyoum of Tigrai) and the Crown Prince Ras Taffari Makonnen and their wives, she also wanted all the descendants of King Sahle Selassie made Princes and Princesses. Coronets, tiaras and gold encrusted robes began to be distributed to be worn by these new Princes and Princesses, when suddenly it was realized that the descendants of the King were more numerous than the number of Rases, Dejazmatches, and Fitawraris combined. It was decided to revoke the granting of the
                    titles because the title would be seriously devalued if given to the hordes of people known to be descendants of Sahle Selassie of Shewa. Today, 90 years later, the number of descendants has multiplied even more. A person being a descendant of Sahle Selassie does not mean they had proximity to the throne in anything other than blood. Even being a close blood relative to the reigning Emperor does not guarantee knowledge. After King Edward VIII abdicated the British throne and became Duke of Windsor, he was asked by someone how exactly the British royal family was related to the royal family of Hesse-Darmstadt (a German principality that produced the wife of the last Czar of Russia). Even though he had once been King and head of the British Royal family, the Duke is said to have replied "I'll have to ask my mother about that...she would know."

                    I'm not sure why the existence of His Majesty's eldest daughter, or Her Majesty's children is such a threat to be battled. She is on every official version of the Imperial Family Tree and on every geneology of the House of Solomon published both inside and outside Ethiopia. No one dared to question the parentage of Princess Romanework Haile Selassie before the events of 1974 sent Ethiopia into a downward spiral. The fact that people would imply today that she was not legitimate, or was adopted or even that she didn't exist is a direct result of the propaganda and misinformation of the Derg era. It is part of the movement to strip Ethiopia of it's history and reduce history and fact to mere rumor and legend. It is sad indeed. RasFeqade and people like him do not question this for malicious reasons, but the people who knowingly misinform them are the ones that I blame.

                    Solomon Kibriye

                    rasfeqade <RasFeqade@aol. com> wrote:
                    > 3) Ethiopian Imperial Historian and biographer Yared Gebre Micheal
                    writing a historical biography tribute on the occasion of the 67th
                    Birthday of HIM Empress Menen Asfaw, who incidentally did not say the
                    things you misrepresented. Also as a so called scholar you also got
                    your facts incorrect when you tried to calculate the age at birth of
                    HIM Empress Menen Asfaw first child . What you failed misabley to take
                    in consideration is (E.C. stands for "Ethiopian Calander", not the
                    English Calander). I tried repeatly to send the original english
                    translated copy of this document but it would not attach to the
                    group's web-site, so I therefore posted the link from the Rasta
                    web-site that displayed their poor english translation of the document
                    you refered to. I would be more than happy to supply you or anyone
                    else with the proper English translation I have.
                    >

                    The only version of this account I saw is at the webpage you provided,
                    in very broken English, on web page # 3 he says (if I am interpreting
                    correctly) that what he says for the period before 1924 AD may be
                    inaccurate. On web page #1 he seems to say that in 1892 (ie 1900 AD
                    when she was 9) Woyzero Menen "legally married" and bore four
                    children. I even quoted the document in question word for word in
                    my previous message. What have I got incorrect? If this is not what
                    the historian says, please elucidate me as to what you think he says.

                    Peace,
                    Ras F





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