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Re: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write

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  • Shlomi Fish
    ... Talking with the administrators of the farms is as effective as talking to a deaf person behind his back (no offence, OmerZ). I ll try and render it as
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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      On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:

      > On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
      > > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:
      > >
      > > > On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "RE: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
      > > > Since I suppose the text is not hyperlinked, why don't you convert it to
      > > > Postscript (or PDF, if you want)? All of us have postscript viewers (shame
      > > > on you if you don't ;)), and with a postscript file there's no question
      > > > of Bidi, fonts, or anything like that. I know that for me getting a hardcopy
      > > > in Postscript or PDF makes much more sense than getting Word/RT/Qtext or
      > > > even HTML.
      > > >
      > >
      > > If I were able to define a postscript printer here on my Technion
      > > workstation it would have been a good solution. Problem is that I'd have
      > > to do it every time I want to convert the file, because there are many
      > > workstations in the farm.
      >
      > Then once again, stupidity wins...
      > Why can't a postscript printer be defined on ALL WORKSTATIONS IN THE FARM (of
      > course, the administrator should do it, not you)? Don't they consider the
      > possibility of postscript output useful enough? Do EE people *never* output
      > *anything* in postscript? Don't you have postscript printers anywhere?
      >

      Talking with the administrators of the farms is as effective as talking to
      a deaf person behind his back (no offence, OmerZ). I'll try and render it
      as postscript before I leave my workstation now. If I can't, then it will
      have to wait till I get home.

      As for EEers using Postscript. I think in the Technion, EEers prefer PDF,
      and we rarely see Postscript around here because the other EEers rarely
      use UNIX as most of the programs we need on a day to day basis are on
      Windows. Some heavy digital circuit simulation programs exist for UNIXes
      only, but most of the other programs are present only on Windows or on
      Windows too.

      I have three UNIX accounts: shlomif@{vipe,t2,lion}. The only one which I
      can run X on is lion and it has a 2.5 MB quota. I can run stuff from vipe
      through remote X but I'd rather not. And I can't get an account on the CS
      farms because I'm not taking any CS courses that justify it, and I am not
      a Computer Engineering student.

      So, if you are a UNIX-lover above all, then CS is the way to go,
      Technionically. But I'm not a UNIX-lover above all, so I can cope with the
      present situation.

      > I find it very strange...
      >
      > > I can do it when I get home, but until then, either you have to wait or do
      > > it with your Windows' computer.
      >
      > Assuming I have one :)
      > The truth is that I did have Windows NT installed on my computer, but a couple
      > of months ago I had an "installation accident" (I tried to install a Hebrew
      > version of Office, after I had only the English version and it managed to
      > ruin various shared-libraries, or whatever), and now my NT installation is
      > completely useless...
      >
      > But don't worry - I can still read HTML. I just suggested that Postscript
      > is a better format because it is a what-you-see-is-what-everyone-else-will-
      > see-too (WYSIWEWS ?) format.
      >

      I suggest you re-install Windows NT after you copy all the important files
      to the Linux partition. And next time, uninstall Eng-Office before you
      install Heb-Office (and pray for the best)

      Like I said, I will convert it to Postscript at the latest when I get
      home, but it won'be until next week.

      Regards,

      Shlomi Fish

      > --
      > Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 8 2000, 11 Kislev 5761
      > nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
      > Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I'm a peripheral visionary: I see into
      > http://nadav.harel.org.il |the future, but mostly off to the sides.
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
      Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
      Home E-mail: shlomif@...

      The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
      converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
    • Shlomi Fish
      Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is updated. E-mail me if
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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        Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are
        interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is
        updated. E-mail me if you wish to be added.

        For those who missed some of the previous messages - the story in question
        is "The Pope Died on Sunday" and its URL is:

        http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/humour/Pope/

        Regards,

        Shlomi Fish

        BTW: There's a more up to date version of the story on the site.

        BTW 2: Chen, how is the translation going? Would you recommend that I
        start one of my own too?


        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
        Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
        Home E-mail: shlomif@...

        The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
        converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
      • Omer Zak
        Here is a question to the real star programmers among us: Suppose you are working for a company, which understands the value of star programmers, and is
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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          Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

          Suppose you are working for a company, which understands the value of star
          programmers, and is prepared to hire as many support personnel and buy as
          much furniture and equipment as needed, so that you the star programmer
          will be able to work in the most efficient way possible.

          What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
          The idea is that it is very difficult to find, hire and retain star
          programmers, so they will be the bottleneck to the organization's
          performance. But there are several other intelligent persons, who just
          cannot excel in programming to to various reasons. But their other skills
          could help star programmers save their time.

          Partial list of suggestions:
          1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
          2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
          yourself.
          3. Big desk.
          4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).
          5. Fast Internet connection.
          6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.
          7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
          facts that the programmer needs.

          Any other wild ideas?
          --- Omer
          WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
        • Nadav Har'El
          ... Of course, PDF is ok too! Both PDF and Postscript are hardcopy formats, meaning that they will (or at least, should) look the same anywhere, regardless
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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            On Fri, Dec 08, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
            > As for EEers using Postscript. I think in the Technion, EEers prefer PDF,
            > and we rarely see Postscript around here because the other EEers rarely
            > use UNIX as most of the programs we need on a day to day basis are on
            > Windows. Some heavy digital circuit simulation programs exist for UNIXes
            > only, but most of the other programs are present only on Windows or on
            > Windows too.

            Of course, PDF is ok too! Both PDF and Postscript are "hardcopy" formats,
            meaning that they will (or at least, should) look the same anywhere, regardless
            of whether the user installed fonts, bidi software, equation editors, or
            whatever, on his or her system.

            BTW, for your information, (or rather, for your system administrators'
            information), ghostscript is available on Windows too :) AND, postscript
            printers (I'm having a real hard time to believe you don't have one of
            those in EE!) require postscript output from Windows - not PDF... But never
            mind ;)

            --
            Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 8 2000, 12 Kislev 5761
            nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
            Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |What's the difference between roast beef
            http://nadav.harel.org.il |and pea soup? Anyone can roast beef.
          • Nadav Har'El
            ... There s a problem in answering your question... If I answer it, it would imply that I consider myself a star programmer , and doing that is a faux-pas
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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              On Fri, Dec 08, 2000, Omer Zak wrote about "[hackers-il] The dream retinue for star programmers":
              > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

              There's a problem in answering your question... If I answer it, it would imply
              that I consider myself a "star programmer", and doing that is a faux-pas (ein
              hanachtom meid al isato, you know). So let's start off by saying that I'm
              answering as a "Nadav" that igored the first line of your posting :)

              > Partial list of suggestions:
              > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
              > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
              > yourself.

              Personally, I would consider either of these a PITA (pain-in-the-a**), because
              it would mean that I have to explain everything I do to two people, and I
              would have to strongly rely on two other people (because botching up either
              the testing or the documentation would make users think that what I did sucks).

              Yes, I would like for my employer to limit the amount of red-tape (beaurocracy)
              I'm required to do, but not by having me explain to someone how he should do
              this red-tape for me.

              Of course, I'm talking about documentation and testing that occurs during
              devlopment. Final user-level documentation and QA can be done by special
              people, for all I care, if the people doing that are capable enough that they
              can do these things without me having to spend weeks with them explaining
              them what they should document or test.

              > 3. Big desk.
              > 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).

              Yes, a comfortable desk (big enough and in the correct height), shelves,
              and stuff like that, are extremely important. And so is a big display (I
              have to admit that I am disappointed by the 17" display my current employer
              gave me - my previous employer gave me a 21" display).

              A flat-panel display isn't important, unless the desk is NOT big enough.

              Two displays is an utter waste, of money and of desk-space, and you shouldn't
              even consider it, not even if you're working on two different computers (e.g.,
              Windows and Unix) - you should use a display/keyboard/mouse switch or
              X-Windows or VNC or something, and manage with one display, one keyboard,
              and one mouse. I know what I'm talking about - at my previous employer, I
              had 6 computers (!) by my desk, but only one display :)

              I would also add a soundcard: it can cost as little as 66 shekels (that's
              the price of the one I got), and listening to music on the job can be a lot
              of fun :)


              > 5. Fast Internet connection.

              Of course, although probably everyone needs this nowadays, not only "star"
              programmers.

              > 6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.

              I can just see the job ad you post for these junior programmers: "come work
              for us, and you'll do all the boring task that our stuck-up snob
              star-programmers refuse to do" :)

              > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
              > facts that the programmer needs.

              This is sometimes called a "librarian"... I don't think you really need one
              in your company, it's even better if you have access to some big library
              (e.g., the Technion's) where you can get books you need at a moment's notice.

              Of course, you should also order any book the programmer requests with no
              questions asked (and these books should belong to the programmer, not the
              company [1]).

              [1] My current employer, and my previous employer, are both stuck with the
              notion that books you order belong to your employer, and you need to return
              them if you quit. This makes certain sense, but it also generates many
              problems (do they really need that "TeXbook" I ordered when I was the only
              one who used TeX?), and after leaving my previous job book-less I decided
              that I cannot stand it any more, and I started buying all the books I want
              with my own money. This is costing me a lot of money, but I consider it
              worthwhile, and now I have my own copy of many of the books I consider
              "great". However, I still expect a more generous employer to buy those books
              for me, to use them to help him and what I do with them after I quit is my
              own business. Just like I don't return to him the knowledge I gather while
              working for him, I should be returning the books I've read.

              > Any other wild ideas?

              A laptop?
              A fast internet connection at home and/or a cellular Internet connection for
              the cellphone?
              A masseuse? :)

              --
              Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 8 2000, 12 Kislev 5761
              nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
              Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If God is watching us, the least we can
              http://nadav.harel.org.il |do is be entertaining.
            • Shlomi Fish
              ... What I would like is the dream software-development tool. Something that if you declare a new variable it will ask you what you are going to do with it,
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Omer Zak wrote:

                > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:
                >
                > Suppose you are working for a company, which understands the value of star
                > programmers, and is prepared to hire as many support personnel and buy as
                > much furniture and equipment as needed, so that you the star programmer
                > will be able to work in the most efficient way possible.
                >
                > What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
                > The idea is that it is very difficult to find, hire and retain star
                > programmers, so they will be the bottleneck to the organization's
                > performance. But there are several other intelligent persons, who just
                > cannot excel in programming to to various reasons. But their other skills
                > could help star programmers save their time.
                >
                > Partial list of suggestions:
                > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                > yourself.
                > 3. Big desk.
                > 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).
                > 5. Fast Internet connection.
                > 6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.
                > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                > facts that the programmer needs.
                >
                > Any other wild ideas?
                >

                What I would like is the dream software-development tool. Something that
                if you declare a new variable it will ask you what you are going to do
                with it, and detect if you do something else. Something that will enable
                one to write documentation that corresponds to any line in the code and
                ask the user what it doesn't understand.

                Also, something like that that can decipher other people's code, but
                that's usually impossible. Also, a very smart and intelligent lint. Even
                tough, I don't usually use lint even for UNIX.

                Regards,

                Shlomi Fish

                P.S: only others can judge whether I am a star programmer or not, (you can
                find software I wrote on my homepage and I can send you some more), but
                basically this is something I'd like as a programmer, whether star or not.


                --- Omer
                > WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >



                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
              • Omer Zak
                ... Perhaps I started the message way it was started because I do consider myself to be a star programmer. :-) ... How about someone who knows to perform code
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                  On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                  > On Fri, Dec 08, 2000, Omer Zak wrote about "[hackers-il] The dream retinue for star programmers":
                  > > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:
                  >
                  > There's a problem in answering your question... If I answer it, it would imply
                  > that I consider myself a "star programmer", and doing that is a faux-pas (ein
                  > hanachtom meid al isato, you know). So let's start off by saying that I'm
                  > answering as a "Nadav" that igored the first line of your posting :)

                  Perhaps I started the message way it was started because I do consider
                  myself to be a star programmer. :-)

                  > > Partial list of suggestions:
                  > > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                  > > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                  > > yourself.
                  >
                  > Personally, I would consider either of these a PITA (pain-in-the-a**), because
                  > it would mean that I have to explain everything I do to two people, and I
                  > would have to strongly rely on two other people (because botching up either
                  > the testing or the documentation would make users think that what I did sucks).

                  How about someone who knows to perform code inspections, only can't
                  originally create the masterpiece? He would inspect your code, find and
                  note any problems with it, and also document it. He would also run the
                  code and test it.

                  The drawback is that such people would probably deserve their own star
                  status (i.e. hard to find and worth a lot as well). So continue to think.

                  > I would also add a soundcard: it can cost as little as 66 shekels (that's
                  > the price of the one I got), and listening to music on the job can be a lot
                  > of fun :)

                  According to DeMarco and Lister's "Peopleware", 2nd edition, chapter 12
                  ("Bring back the door"), research made in Cornell University demonstrated
                  that people use the same brain center for listening to music and for
                  creativity (needed to create the really novel solutions to problems).
                  Thus, hearing music on programming job is bad for your creativity.

                  Due to obvious reasons (no offense meant or taken, ShlomiF :-) ) I can't
                  personally vouch for the correctness of the above claim.

                  > > 6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.
                  >
                  > I can just see the job ad you post for these junior programmers: "come work
                  > for us, and you'll do all the boring task that our stuck-up snob
                  > star-programmers refuse to do" :)

                  A better way to phrase the same way is "come and work as apprentice to
                  today's brightest programming stars, learn their secrets and ways of
                  thinking, and 7 years from now you will too be a star programmer".

                  > > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                  > > facts that the programmer needs.
                  >
                  > This is sometimes called a "librarian"... I don't think you really need one
                  > in your company, it's even better if you have access to some big library
                  > (e.g., the Technion's) where you can get books you need at a moment's notice.

                  This is not the same. Librarians deal mostly with finding, loaning,
                  returning and repairing books. Information specialists gather information
                  from all sources, and know where to find the answer to any question.

                  > > Any other wild ideas?
                  >
                  > A laptop?
                  > A fast internet connection at home and/or a cellular Internet connection for
                  > the cellphone?
                  > A masseuse? :)

                  Continue suggesting more wild ideas.
                  --- Omer
                  WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
                • mulix
                  ... If i were a star programmer, i wouldn t be reading my mail on friday night, i d be coding the next linux, from scratch, and be done debugging it by the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                    On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Omer Zak wrote:

                    > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

                    If i were a star programmer, i wouldn't be reading my mail on friday
                    night, i'd be coding the next linux, from scratch, and be done debugging
                    it by the time the takeout arrives.

                    > What would you recommend the company to equip you with?

                    here's my wish list:

                    flexible working hours. i work when i want to.

                    flexible working location. onsite or offsite, at my discretion. have
                    laptop and internet connection, will travel.

                    flexible projects and choice of technology. c++, c, java, perl, commodore
                    asm if that's what i want to do the prohject in (and i can give sufficient
                    technical arguments to support my whim)

                    > Partial list of suggestions:
                    > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                    > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                    > yourself.

                    i would like to have ultimate control over my staff memebrs. to be able to
                    decide who to work with and who not to.

                    > 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).

                    in general, a computer which makes my task, programming, as easy as
                    possible. and i decide what defines such a computer, naturally.

                    > 5. Fast Internet connection.

                    wholeheartedly agree.

                    > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                    > facts that the programmer needs.

                    access to any knowledge source i need, be it in electronic form or
                    dead-tree form. no questions asked as to why i need it or how much it
                    costs.

                    > --- Omer
                    > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
                    --
                    mulix

                    linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead
                  • Chen Shapira
                    ... I m interested.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                      >
                      > Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are
                      > interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is
                      > updated. E-mail me if you wish to be added.

                      I'm interested.
                    • Chen Shapira
                      ... I would get a tool maker. Whenever I need CVs to do just something else, and Yet another emacs feature, or a small script to do specific tasks, I find
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                        > Any other wild ideas?

                        I would get a tool maker.

                        Whenever I need CVs to do just something else, and Yet another emacs
                        feature, or a small script to do specific tasks, I find myself wishing for
                        someone else who would know perl/emacs-lisp better than I do and do it for
                        me.
                        Same for writing setups and doing builds.
                        (where I work they have a special team handling CVS/Build/Setup for
                        everyone, its fantastic!)
                      • Chen Shapira
                        ... I think everyone gets a decent amount of those. Ofcourse the more valuable you are the higher the value of good and decent become. So those are
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                          > Besides, I woild like to have a decent salary, good stock
                          > options share
                          > and a car.

                          I think everyone gets a decent amount of those.
                          Ofcourse the more valuable you are the higher the value of "good" and
                          "decent" become.
                          So those are automatic :-)
                        • Omer Musaev
                          ... ... Contrary to Nadav s experience, I find 3 monitors on a desk a good thing:) Hovewer, as mulix stated, a perfect computer is a question of
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                            mulix wrote:

                            > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Omer Zak wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >> Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:
                            >
                            > If i were a star programmer, i wouldn't be reading my mail on friday
                            > night, i'd be coding the next linux, from scratch, and be done debugging
                            > it by the time the takeout arrives.
                            >
                            >
                            >> What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
                            >
                            <snip>

                            >> 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).
                            >
                            > in general, a computer which makes my task, programming, as easy as
                            > possible. and i decide what defines such a computer, naturally.

                            Contrary to Nadav's experience, I find 3 monitors on a desk a good
                            thing:) Hovewer, as mulix stated,
                            a perfect computer is a question of personal decision.

                            >> 5. Fast Internet connection.
                            >
                            > wholeheartedly agree.
                            >
                            >
                            >> 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                            >> facts that the programmer needs.
                            >
                            > access to any knowledge source i need, be it in electronic form or
                            > dead-tree form. no questions asked as to why i need it or how much it
                            > costs.


                            While I am not considering myself a star programmer, I think that LOTS
                            of disk space on netapp
                            and personal budget, i.e. readiness of employer to purchase whatever I
                            think could help me is
                            a good thing TM.

                            Besides, I woild like to have a decent salary, good stock options share
                            and a car.


                            omerm
                          • Gilad Ben-Yossef
                            ... To comment on some previous comments regarding how does one knows whether she is a star programer? then I guess my answer would be: If you happen to work
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                              Omer Zak wrote:

                              > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

                              To comment on some previous comments regarding "how does one knows
                              whether she is a star programer?" then I guess my answer would be:

                              If you happen to work for a multinational corporation and you happen to
                              drive back to your (company supplied) home in a Southern California
                              "gated community" (3 pools, tennis courts, electric gates) by the
                              wonderful (Really!) road going between Malibu and Thousand Oaks, and
                              while driving the (company supplied) car you happen to hit a car going
                              the other way and totally trash your and the other drivers car (but no
                              one gets hurt) and the company simply sends you a new car and have their
                              lawyers take care of everything for you, without you having to to pay a
                              penny, display insurance papers etc. then you must be a star programer :-)

                              <sigh> Yes, I was once that good... ;-))

                              Now seriously, you seem to describe something very similar to the
                              "Surgical Team" that Fred Brooks describes in chapter 3 of the now
                              famous "The Mythical Man-Month". Since I can't quote the entire chapter
                              I'd advice you to go read the book. It's boring as hell, but still very
                              important.

                              Besides it (the book) makes a hell of a crushing answer when some dumb
                              ass pointy haired manager tries to convince you to take in new team
                              members to try and make a late project deliver on time and you go:
                              "That will only make the project *MORE* late, not less!" and he goes:
                              "Says who?". At this point I simply send them the title and the ISBN of
                              the book and a link to it on Amazon.. ;-)

                              I always thought the Surgical Team idea is very good except of the
                              social implications but never heard of any place this actually got tried
                              out in.

                              Interestingly, once can think of the Open Source development model
                              presented by Linux and ilk as a sort of Surgical Team development:
                              The developers write code, someone else tests, yet someone else
                              documents (well, maybe... ;-) This in addition to many of the
                              "communication and administration" functions becoming unnecessary
                              because of the extremely low cost of communication.
                              Well, maybe I'm stretching it too far...

                              Gilad.

                              --
                              Gilad Ben-Yossef <gilad@...>
                              http://benyossef.com :: +972(54)756701
                              "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, while interrupts are disabled. "
                              -- Murphey's law of kernel programing.
                            • Shlomi Fish
                              ... Then subscribe to shlomif-tpdos-subscribe@vipe.technion.ac.il and I ll send notices there whenever I update it. God bless ezmlm. Regards, Shlomi Fish ...
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 11, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Chen Shapira wrote:

                                >
                                > >
                                > > Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are
                                > > interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is
                                > > updated. E-mail me if you wish to be added.
                                >
                                > I'm interested.
                                >

                                Then subscribe to shlomif-tpdos-subscribe@... and I'll
                                send notices there whenever I update it. God bless ezmlm.

                                Regards,

                                Shlomi Fish

                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                                Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                                Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                                The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                                converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
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