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Slightly OT: A story I started to write

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  • Shlomi Fish
    Well, The Pope Died on Sunday. is not available on my homepage for your review. My homepage URL is: http://techst02.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/ It s in Hebrew,
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 6, 2000
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      Well, "The Pope Died on Sunday." is not available on my homepage for your
      review. My homepage URL is:

      http://techst02.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

      It's in Hebrew, so for the meanwhile I'm only publishing it in RTF and
      Logical HTML, which are the formats supported by Word. Thus, Konquerer is
      recommended for the Linux users among you.

      The story is about a female CS graduate who work as a computer graphic
      artist and there will be a lot of hackerdomia in it, so it's not entirely
      off-topic.

      So enjoy.

      Regards,

      Shlomi Fish

      P.S: I'm probably going to start a mailing-list dedicated to creative
      writing here on Egroups. It won't be specific to Israel, but nonetheless,
      it could be of interest to Israelis who like to read or write fiction and
      non-fiction.


      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
      Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
      Home E-mail: shlomif@...

      The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
      converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
    • Chen Shapira
      ... Nice character introduction! I loved that :-)
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 6, 2000
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        > http://techst02.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

        Nice character introduction! I loved that :-)
      • Shlomi Fish
        ... Thanks. But I fear that Word 2000, which I use here converted it into somethihg that only IE5 can see. Can anybody verify that he sees the HTML using
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 7, 2000
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          On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Chen Shapira wrote:

          >
          > > http://techst02.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
          >
          > Nice character introduction! I loved that :-)
          >

          Thanks. But I fear that Word 2000, which I use here converted it into
          somethihg that only IE5 can see. Can anybody verify that he sees the
          HTML using Konquerer?

          In anycase, if somebody has QText or MS-Word 97 can he convert the RTF
          to HTML and send me the converted file. Visual HTML will be better, but
          Logical HTML that Konquerer can see will also be good.

          Regards,

          Shlomi Fish

          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >



          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
          Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
          Home E-mail: shlomif@...

          The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
          converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
        • Nadav Har'El
          ... Since I suppose the text is not hyperlinked, why don t you convert it to Postscript (or PDF, if you want)? All of us have postscript viewers (shame on you
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 7, 2000
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            On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "RE: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
            > Thanks. But I fear that Word 2000, which I use here converted it into
            > somethihg that only IE5 can see. Can anybody verify that he sees the
            > HTML using Konquerer?
            >
            > In anycase, if somebody has QText or MS-Word 97 can he convert the RTF
            > to HTML and send me the converted file. Visual HTML will be better, but
            > Logical HTML that Konquerer can see will also be good.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Shlomi Fish

            Since I suppose the text is not hyperlinked, why don't you convert it to
            Postscript (or PDF, if you want)? All of us have postscript viewers (shame
            on you if you don't ;)), and with a postscript file there's no question
            of Bidi, fonts, or anything like that. I know that for me getting a hardcopy
            in Postscript or PDF makes much more sense than getting Word/RT/Qtext or
            even HTML.

            --
            Nadav Har'El | Thursday, Dec 7 2000, 10 Kislev 5761
            nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
            Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A bird in the hand is safer than one
            http://nadav.harel.org.il |overhead.
          • Chen Shapira
            ... Major HTML editing is needed. Try this: http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/demoroniser/ Besides the broken font tags and others, the hebrew is indeed
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 7, 2000
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              > In anycase, if somebody has QText or MS-Word 97 can he
              > convert the RTF
              > to HTML and send me the converted file. Visual HTML will be
              > better, but
              > Logical HTML that Konquerer can see will also be good.

              Major HTML editing is needed. Try this:

              http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/demoroniser/

              Besides the broken font tags and others, the hebrew is indeed logical, and
              should be seen on any viewer that supports it (inclusing gnotepad)

              I can also send a hebrew Ascii to ps convertor if anyone is interested.

              Since I still didn't get over how cool this short story is, I'll say it
              again: Its not only great, its addictive. I read the first part few times
              this morning, I can't wait for the rest.

              BTW. Shlomi, would you mind if I try translating it to English?
            • Shlomi Fish
              ... OK. I ll give it shoot. But I can only use it once in a while, not for every version I release. ... Be my guest. I already translated my previous story,
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 7, 2000
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                On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Chen Shapira wrote:

                >
                > > In anycase, if somebody has QText or MS-Word 97 can he
                > > convert the RTF
                > > to HTML and send me the converted file. Visual HTML will be
                > > better, but
                > > Logical HTML that Konquerer can see will also be good.
                >
                > Major HTML editing is needed. Try this:
                >
                > http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/demoroniser/
                >

                OK. I'll give it shoot. But I can only use it once in a while, not for
                every version I release.

                > Besides the broken font tags and others, the hebrew is indeed logical, and
                > should be seen on any viewer that supports it (inclusing gnotepad)
                >
                > I can also send a hebrew Ascii to ps convertor if anyone is interested.
                >
                > Since I still didn't get over how cool this short story is, I'll say it
                > again: Its not only great, its addictive. I read the first part few times
                > this morning, I can't wait for the rest.
                >
                > BTW. Shlomi, would you mind if I try translating it to English?
                >

                Be my guest. I already translated my previous story, "The Enemy and How I
                Helped to Fight it" (read it or be flogged by a differential SCSI cable)
                to English, and you can find it on my site in both English and Hebrew
                versions. (Visual Hebrew HTML).

                "The Enemy" is much more insane than this story is going to be, despite
                the fact that this story describe an sequence of insane events.

                I can warn you that I am going to keep writing, as well as fixing, the
                story in Hebrew, so you should stay tuned for changes.

                Regards,

                Shlomi Fish



                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >



                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
              • Shlomi Fish
                ... If I were able to define a postscript printer here on my Technion workstation it would have been a good solution. Problem is that I d have to do it every
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 7, 2000
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                  On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                  > On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "RE: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
                  > > Thanks. But I fear that Word 2000, which I use here converted it into
                  > > somethihg that only IE5 can see. Can anybody verify that he sees the
                  > > HTML using Konquerer?
                  > >
                  > > In anycase, if somebody has QText or MS-Word 97 can he convert the RTF
                  > > to HTML and send me the converted file. Visual HTML will be better, but
                  > > Logical HTML that Konquerer can see will also be good.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > >
                  > > Shlomi Fish
                  >
                  > Since I suppose the text is not hyperlinked, why don't you convert it to
                  > Postscript (or PDF, if you want)? All of us have postscript viewers (shame
                  > on you if you don't ;)), and with a postscript file there's no question
                  > of Bidi, fonts, or anything like that. I know that for me getting a hardcopy
                  > in Postscript or PDF makes much more sense than getting Word/RT/Qtext or
                  > even HTML.
                  >

                  If I were able to define a postscript printer here on my Technion
                  workstation it would have been a good solution. Problem is that I'd have
                  to do it every time I want to convert the file, because there are many
                  workstations in the farm.

                  I can do it when I get home, but until then, either you have to wait or do
                  it with your Windows' computer.

                  Sorry for the inconvenience,

                  Shlomi Fish

                  > --
                  > Nadav Har'El | Thursday, Dec 7 2000, 10 Kislev 5761
                  > nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                  > Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A bird in the hand is safer than one
                  > http://nadav.harel.org.il |overhead.
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                  Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                  Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                  The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                  converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
                • Shlomi Fish
                  ... Apparently, there is a writers@egroups.com mailing-list. It seems to be quite dead and off-topic for the recent time, but I ll try it out before I start a
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 7, 2000
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                    On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote:

                    > P.S: I'm probably going to start a mailing-list dedicated to creative
                    > writing here on Egroups. It won't be specific to Israel, but nonetheless,
                    > it could be of interest to Israelis who like to read or write fiction and
                    > non-fiction.
                    >

                    Apparently, there is a writers@egroups.com mailing-list. It seems to be
                    quite dead and off-topic for the recent time, but I'll try it out before I
                    start a new one.

                    Regards,

                    Shlomi Fish


                    >
                    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                    > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                    > Home E-mail: shlomif@...
                    >
                    > The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                    > converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                    Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                    Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                    The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                    converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
                  • Nadav Har'El
                    ... Then once again, stupidity wins... Why can t a postscript printer be defined on ALL WORKSTATIONS IN THE FARM (of course, the administrator should do it,
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                      On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
                      > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:
                      >
                      > > On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "RE: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
                      > > Since I suppose the text is not hyperlinked, why don't you convert it to
                      > > Postscript (or PDF, if you want)? All of us have postscript viewers (shame
                      > > on you if you don't ;)), and with a postscript file there's no question
                      > > of Bidi, fonts, or anything like that. I know that for me getting a hardcopy
                      > > in Postscript or PDF makes much more sense than getting Word/RT/Qtext or
                      > > even HTML.
                      > >
                      >
                      > If I were able to define a postscript printer here on my Technion
                      > workstation it would have been a good solution. Problem is that I'd have
                      > to do it every time I want to convert the file, because there are many
                      > workstations in the farm.

                      Then once again, stupidity wins...
                      Why can't a postscript printer be defined on ALL WORKSTATIONS IN THE FARM (of
                      course, the administrator should do it, not you)? Don't they consider the
                      possibility of postscript output useful enough? Do EE people *never* output
                      *anything* in postscript? Don't you have postscript printers anywhere?

                      I find it very strange...

                      > I can do it when I get home, but until then, either you have to wait or do
                      > it with your Windows' computer.

                      Assuming I have one :)
                      The truth is that I did have Windows NT installed on my computer, but a couple
                      of months ago I had an "installation accident" (I tried to install a Hebrew
                      version of Office, after I had only the English version and it managed to
                      ruin various shared-libraries, or whatever), and now my NT installation is
                      completely useless...

                      But don't worry - I can still read HTML. I just suggested that Postscript
                      is a better format because it is a what-you-see-is-what-everyone-else-will-
                      see-too (WYSIWEWS ?) format.

                      --
                      Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 8 2000, 11 Kislev 5761
                      nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                      Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I'm a peripheral visionary: I see into
                      http://nadav.harel.org.il |the future, but mostly off to the sides.
                    • Shlomi Fish
                      ... Talking with the administrators of the farms is as effective as talking to a deaf person behind his back (no offence, OmerZ). I ll try and render it as
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                        On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                        > On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
                        > > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > On Thu, Dec 07, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "RE: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
                        > > > Since I suppose the text is not hyperlinked, why don't you convert it to
                        > > > Postscript (or PDF, if you want)? All of us have postscript viewers (shame
                        > > > on you if you don't ;)), and with a postscript file there's no question
                        > > > of Bidi, fonts, or anything like that. I know that for me getting a hardcopy
                        > > > in Postscript or PDF makes much more sense than getting Word/RT/Qtext or
                        > > > even HTML.
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > If I were able to define a postscript printer here on my Technion
                        > > workstation it would have been a good solution. Problem is that I'd have
                        > > to do it every time I want to convert the file, because there are many
                        > > workstations in the farm.
                        >
                        > Then once again, stupidity wins...
                        > Why can't a postscript printer be defined on ALL WORKSTATIONS IN THE FARM (of
                        > course, the administrator should do it, not you)? Don't they consider the
                        > possibility of postscript output useful enough? Do EE people *never* output
                        > *anything* in postscript? Don't you have postscript printers anywhere?
                        >

                        Talking with the administrators of the farms is as effective as talking to
                        a deaf person behind his back (no offence, OmerZ). I'll try and render it
                        as postscript before I leave my workstation now. If I can't, then it will
                        have to wait till I get home.

                        As for EEers using Postscript. I think in the Technion, EEers prefer PDF,
                        and we rarely see Postscript around here because the other EEers rarely
                        use UNIX as most of the programs we need on a day to day basis are on
                        Windows. Some heavy digital circuit simulation programs exist for UNIXes
                        only, but most of the other programs are present only on Windows or on
                        Windows too.

                        I have three UNIX accounts: shlomif@{vipe,t2,lion}. The only one which I
                        can run X on is lion and it has a 2.5 MB quota. I can run stuff from vipe
                        through remote X but I'd rather not. And I can't get an account on the CS
                        farms because I'm not taking any CS courses that justify it, and I am not
                        a Computer Engineering student.

                        So, if you are a UNIX-lover above all, then CS is the way to go,
                        Technionically. But I'm not a UNIX-lover above all, so I can cope with the
                        present situation.

                        > I find it very strange...
                        >
                        > > I can do it when I get home, but until then, either you have to wait or do
                        > > it with your Windows' computer.
                        >
                        > Assuming I have one :)
                        > The truth is that I did have Windows NT installed on my computer, but a couple
                        > of months ago I had an "installation accident" (I tried to install a Hebrew
                        > version of Office, after I had only the English version and it managed to
                        > ruin various shared-libraries, or whatever), and now my NT installation is
                        > completely useless...
                        >
                        > But don't worry - I can still read HTML. I just suggested that Postscript
                        > is a better format because it is a what-you-see-is-what-everyone-else-will-
                        > see-too (WYSIWEWS ?) format.
                        >

                        I suggest you re-install Windows NT after you copy all the important files
                        to the Linux partition. And next time, uninstall Eng-Office before you
                        install Heb-Office (and pray for the best)

                        Like I said, I will convert it to Postscript at the latest when I get
                        home, but it won'be until next week.

                        Regards,

                        Shlomi Fish

                        > --
                        > Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 8 2000, 11 Kislev 5761
                        > nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                        > Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I'm a peripheral visionary: I see into
                        > http://nadav.harel.org.il |the future, but mostly off to the sides.
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                        Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                        Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                        The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                        converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
                      • Shlomi Fish
                        Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is updated. E-mail me if
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                          Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are
                          interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is
                          updated. E-mail me if you wish to be added.

                          For those who missed some of the previous messages - the story in question
                          is "The Pope Died on Sunday" and its URL is:

                          http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/humour/Pope/

                          Regards,

                          Shlomi Fish

                          BTW: There's a more up to date version of the story on the site.

                          BTW 2: Chen, how is the translation going? Would you recommend that I
                          start one of my own too?


                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                          Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                          Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                          The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                          converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
                        • Omer Zak
                          Here is a question to the real star programmers among us: Suppose you are working for a company, which understands the value of star programmers, and is
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                            Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

                            Suppose you are working for a company, which understands the value of star
                            programmers, and is prepared to hire as many support personnel and buy as
                            much furniture and equipment as needed, so that you the star programmer
                            will be able to work in the most efficient way possible.

                            What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
                            The idea is that it is very difficult to find, hire and retain star
                            programmers, so they will be the bottleneck to the organization's
                            performance. But there are several other intelligent persons, who just
                            cannot excel in programming to to various reasons. But their other skills
                            could help star programmers save their time.

                            Partial list of suggestions:
                            1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                            2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                            yourself.
                            3. Big desk.
                            4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).
                            5. Fast Internet connection.
                            6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.
                            7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                            facts that the programmer needs.

                            Any other wild ideas?
                            --- Omer
                            WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
                          • Nadav Har'El
                            ... Of course, PDF is ok too! Both PDF and Postscript are hardcopy formats, meaning that they will (or at least, should) look the same anywhere, regardless
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                              On Fri, Dec 08, 2000, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write":
                              > As for EEers using Postscript. I think in the Technion, EEers prefer PDF,
                              > and we rarely see Postscript around here because the other EEers rarely
                              > use UNIX as most of the programs we need on a day to day basis are on
                              > Windows. Some heavy digital circuit simulation programs exist for UNIXes
                              > only, but most of the other programs are present only on Windows or on
                              > Windows too.

                              Of course, PDF is ok too! Both PDF and Postscript are "hardcopy" formats,
                              meaning that they will (or at least, should) look the same anywhere, regardless
                              of whether the user installed fonts, bidi software, equation editors, or
                              whatever, on his or her system.

                              BTW, for your information, (or rather, for your system administrators'
                              information), ghostscript is available on Windows too :) AND, postscript
                              printers (I'm having a real hard time to believe you don't have one of
                              those in EE!) require postscript output from Windows - not PDF... But never
                              mind ;)

                              --
                              Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 8 2000, 12 Kislev 5761
                              nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                              Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |What's the difference between roast beef
                              http://nadav.harel.org.il |and pea soup? Anyone can roast beef.
                            • Nadav Har'El
                              ... There s a problem in answering your question... If I answer it, it would imply that I consider myself a star programmer , and doing that is a faux-pas
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                                On Fri, Dec 08, 2000, Omer Zak wrote about "[hackers-il] The dream retinue for star programmers":
                                > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

                                There's a problem in answering your question... If I answer it, it would imply
                                that I consider myself a "star programmer", and doing that is a faux-pas (ein
                                hanachtom meid al isato, you know). So let's start off by saying that I'm
                                answering as a "Nadav" that igored the first line of your posting :)

                                > Partial list of suggestions:
                                > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                                > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                                > yourself.

                                Personally, I would consider either of these a PITA (pain-in-the-a**), because
                                it would mean that I have to explain everything I do to two people, and I
                                would have to strongly rely on two other people (because botching up either
                                the testing or the documentation would make users think that what I did sucks).

                                Yes, I would like for my employer to limit the amount of red-tape (beaurocracy)
                                I'm required to do, but not by having me explain to someone how he should do
                                this red-tape for me.

                                Of course, I'm talking about documentation and testing that occurs during
                                devlopment. Final user-level documentation and QA can be done by special
                                people, for all I care, if the people doing that are capable enough that they
                                can do these things without me having to spend weeks with them explaining
                                them what they should document or test.

                                > 3. Big desk.
                                > 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).

                                Yes, a comfortable desk (big enough and in the correct height), shelves,
                                and stuff like that, are extremely important. And so is a big display (I
                                have to admit that I am disappointed by the 17" display my current employer
                                gave me - my previous employer gave me a 21" display).

                                A flat-panel display isn't important, unless the desk is NOT big enough.

                                Two displays is an utter waste, of money and of desk-space, and you shouldn't
                                even consider it, not even if you're working on two different computers (e.g.,
                                Windows and Unix) - you should use a display/keyboard/mouse switch or
                                X-Windows or VNC or something, and manage with one display, one keyboard,
                                and one mouse. I know what I'm talking about - at my previous employer, I
                                had 6 computers (!) by my desk, but only one display :)

                                I would also add a soundcard: it can cost as little as 66 shekels (that's
                                the price of the one I got), and listening to music on the job can be a lot
                                of fun :)


                                > 5. Fast Internet connection.

                                Of course, although probably everyone needs this nowadays, not only "star"
                                programmers.

                                > 6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.

                                I can just see the job ad you post for these junior programmers: "come work
                                for us, and you'll do all the boring task that our stuck-up snob
                                star-programmers refuse to do" :)

                                > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                                > facts that the programmer needs.

                                This is sometimes called a "librarian"... I don't think you really need one
                                in your company, it's even better if you have access to some big library
                                (e.g., the Technion's) where you can get books you need at a moment's notice.

                                Of course, you should also order any book the programmer requests with no
                                questions asked (and these books should belong to the programmer, not the
                                company [1]).

                                [1] My current employer, and my previous employer, are both stuck with the
                                notion that books you order belong to your employer, and you need to return
                                them if you quit. This makes certain sense, but it also generates many
                                problems (do they really need that "TeXbook" I ordered when I was the only
                                one who used TeX?), and after leaving my previous job book-less I decided
                                that I cannot stand it any more, and I started buying all the books I want
                                with my own money. This is costing me a lot of money, but I consider it
                                worthwhile, and now I have my own copy of many of the books I consider
                                "great". However, I still expect a more generous employer to buy those books
                                for me, to use them to help him and what I do with them after I quit is my
                                own business. Just like I don't return to him the knowledge I gather while
                                working for him, I should be returning the books I've read.

                                > Any other wild ideas?

                                A laptop?
                                A fast internet connection at home and/or a cellular Internet connection for
                                the cellphone?
                                A masseuse? :)

                                --
                                Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 8 2000, 12 Kislev 5761
                                nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                                Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If God is watching us, the least we can
                                http://nadav.harel.org.il |do is be entertaining.
                              • Shlomi Fish
                                ... What I would like is the dream software-development tool. Something that if you declare a new variable it will ask you what you are going to do with it,
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                                  On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Omer Zak wrote:

                                  > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:
                                  >
                                  > Suppose you are working for a company, which understands the value of star
                                  > programmers, and is prepared to hire as many support personnel and buy as
                                  > much furniture and equipment as needed, so that you the star programmer
                                  > will be able to work in the most efficient way possible.
                                  >
                                  > What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
                                  > The idea is that it is very difficult to find, hire and retain star
                                  > programmers, so they will be the bottleneck to the organization's
                                  > performance. But there are several other intelligent persons, who just
                                  > cannot excel in programming to to various reasons. But their other skills
                                  > could help star programmers save their time.
                                  >
                                  > Partial list of suggestions:
                                  > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                                  > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                                  > yourself.
                                  > 3. Big desk.
                                  > 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).
                                  > 5. Fast Internet connection.
                                  > 6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.
                                  > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                                  > facts that the programmer needs.
                                  >
                                  > Any other wild ideas?
                                  >

                                  What I would like is the dream software-development tool. Something that
                                  if you declare a new variable it will ask you what you are going to do
                                  with it, and detect if you do something else. Something that will enable
                                  one to write documentation that corresponds to any line in the code and
                                  ask the user what it doesn't understand.

                                  Also, something like that that can decipher other people's code, but
                                  that's usually impossible. Also, a very smart and intelligent lint. Even
                                  tough, I don't usually use lint even for UNIX.

                                  Regards,

                                  Shlomi Fish

                                  P.S: only others can judge whether I am a star programmer or not, (you can
                                  find software I wrote on my homepage and I can send you some more), but
                                  basically this is something I'd like as a programmer, whether star or not.


                                  --- Omer
                                  > WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >



                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                                  Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                                  Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                                  The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                                  converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
                                • Omer Zak
                                  ... Perhaps I started the message way it was started because I do consider myself to be a star programmer. :-) ... How about someone who knows to perform code
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                                    On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                                    > On Fri, Dec 08, 2000, Omer Zak wrote about "[hackers-il] The dream retinue for star programmers":
                                    > > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:
                                    >
                                    > There's a problem in answering your question... If I answer it, it would imply
                                    > that I consider myself a "star programmer", and doing that is a faux-pas (ein
                                    > hanachtom meid al isato, you know). So let's start off by saying that I'm
                                    > answering as a "Nadav" that igored the first line of your posting :)

                                    Perhaps I started the message way it was started because I do consider
                                    myself to be a star programmer. :-)

                                    > > Partial list of suggestions:
                                    > > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                                    > > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                                    > > yourself.
                                    >
                                    > Personally, I would consider either of these a PITA (pain-in-the-a**), because
                                    > it would mean that I have to explain everything I do to two people, and I
                                    > would have to strongly rely on two other people (because botching up either
                                    > the testing or the documentation would make users think that what I did sucks).

                                    How about someone who knows to perform code inspections, only can't
                                    originally create the masterpiece? He would inspect your code, find and
                                    note any problems with it, and also document it. He would also run the
                                    code and test it.

                                    The drawback is that such people would probably deserve their own star
                                    status (i.e. hard to find and worth a lot as well). So continue to think.

                                    > I would also add a soundcard: it can cost as little as 66 shekels (that's
                                    > the price of the one I got), and listening to music on the job can be a lot
                                    > of fun :)

                                    According to DeMarco and Lister's "Peopleware", 2nd edition, chapter 12
                                    ("Bring back the door"), research made in Cornell University demonstrated
                                    that people use the same brain center for listening to music and for
                                    creativity (needed to create the really novel solutions to problems).
                                    Thus, hearing music on programming job is bad for your creativity.

                                    Due to obvious reasons (no offense meant or taken, ShlomiF :-) ) I can't
                                    personally vouch for the correctness of the above claim.

                                    > > 6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.
                                    >
                                    > I can just see the job ad you post for these junior programmers: "come work
                                    > for us, and you'll do all the boring task that our stuck-up snob
                                    > star-programmers refuse to do" :)

                                    A better way to phrase the same way is "come and work as apprentice to
                                    today's brightest programming stars, learn their secrets and ways of
                                    thinking, and 7 years from now you will too be a star programmer".

                                    > > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                                    > > facts that the programmer needs.
                                    >
                                    > This is sometimes called a "librarian"... I don't think you really need one
                                    > in your company, it's even better if you have access to some big library
                                    > (e.g., the Technion's) where you can get books you need at a moment's notice.

                                    This is not the same. Librarians deal mostly with finding, loaning,
                                    returning and repairing books. Information specialists gather information
                                    from all sources, and know where to find the answer to any question.

                                    > > Any other wild ideas?
                                    >
                                    > A laptop?
                                    > A fast internet connection at home and/or a cellular Internet connection for
                                    > the cellphone?
                                    > A masseuse? :)

                                    Continue suggesting more wild ideas.
                                    --- Omer
                                    WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
                                  • mulix
                                    ... If i were a star programmer, i wouldn t be reading my mail on friday night, i d be coding the next linux, from scratch, and be done debugging it by the
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 8, 2000
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                                      On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Omer Zak wrote:

                                      > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

                                      If i were a star programmer, i wouldn't be reading my mail on friday
                                      night, i'd be coding the next linux, from scratch, and be done debugging
                                      it by the time the takeout arrives.

                                      > What would you recommend the company to equip you with?

                                      here's my wish list:

                                      flexible working hours. i work when i want to.

                                      flexible working location. onsite or offsite, at my discretion. have
                                      laptop and internet connection, will travel.

                                      flexible projects and choice of technology. c++, c, java, perl, commodore
                                      asm if that's what i want to do the prohject in (and i can give sufficient
                                      technical arguments to support my whim)

                                      > Partial list of suggestions:
                                      > 1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
                                      > 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
                                      > yourself.

                                      i would like to have ultimate control over my staff memebrs. to be able to
                                      decide who to work with and who not to.

                                      > 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).

                                      in general, a computer which makes my task, programming, as easy as
                                      possible. and i decide what defines such a computer, naturally.

                                      > 5. Fast Internet connection.

                                      wholeheartedly agree.

                                      > 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                                      > facts that the programmer needs.

                                      access to any knowledge source i need, be it in electronic form or
                                      dead-tree form. no questions asked as to why i need it or how much it
                                      costs.

                                      > --- Omer
                                      > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
                                      --
                                      mulix

                                      linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead
                                    • Chen Shapira
                                      ... I m interested.
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                                        >
                                        > Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are
                                        > interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is
                                        > updated. E-mail me if you wish to be added.

                                        I'm interested.
                                      • Chen Shapira
                                        ... I would get a tool maker. Whenever I need CVs to do just something else, and Yet another emacs feature, or a small script to do specific tasks, I find
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                                          > Any other wild ideas?

                                          I would get a tool maker.

                                          Whenever I need CVs to do just something else, and Yet another emacs
                                          feature, or a small script to do specific tasks, I find myself wishing for
                                          someone else who would know perl/emacs-lisp better than I do and do it for
                                          me.
                                          Same for writing setups and doing builds.
                                          (where I work they have a special team handling CVS/Build/Setup for
                                          everyone, its fantastic!)
                                        • Chen Shapira
                                          ... I think everyone gets a decent amount of those. Ofcourse the more valuable you are the higher the value of good and decent become. So those are
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                                            > Besides, I woild like to have a decent salary, good stock
                                            > options share
                                            > and a car.

                                            I think everyone gets a decent amount of those.
                                            Ofcourse the more valuable you are the higher the value of "good" and
                                            "decent" become.
                                            So those are automatic :-)
                                          • Omer Musaev
                                            ... ... Contrary to Nadav s experience, I find 3 monitors on a desk a good thing:) Hovewer, as mulix stated, a perfect computer is a question of
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                                              mulix wrote:

                                              > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Omer Zak wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >> Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:
                                              >
                                              > If i were a star programmer, i wouldn't be reading my mail on friday
                                              > night, i'd be coding the next linux, from scratch, and be done debugging
                                              > it by the time the takeout arrives.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >> What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
                                              >
                                              <snip>

                                              >> 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).
                                              >
                                              > in general, a computer which makes my task, programming, as easy as
                                              > possible. and i decide what defines such a computer, naturally.

                                              Contrary to Nadav's experience, I find 3 monitors on a desk a good
                                              thing:) Hovewer, as mulix stated,
                                              a perfect computer is a question of personal decision.

                                              >> 5. Fast Internet connection.
                                              >
                                              > wholeheartedly agree.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >> 7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
                                              >> facts that the programmer needs.
                                              >
                                              > access to any knowledge source i need, be it in electronic form or
                                              > dead-tree form. no questions asked as to why i need it or how much it
                                              > costs.


                                              While I am not considering myself a star programmer, I think that LOTS
                                              of disk space on netapp
                                              and personal budget, i.e. readiness of employer to purchase whatever I
                                              think could help me is
                                              a good thing TM.

                                              Besides, I woild like to have a decent salary, good stock options share
                                              and a car.


                                              omerm
                                            • Gilad Ben-Yossef
                                              ... To comment on some previous comments regarding how does one knows whether she is a star programer? then I guess my answer would be: If you happen to work
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Dec 10, 2000
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                                                Omer Zak wrote:

                                                > Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

                                                To comment on some previous comments regarding "how does one knows
                                                whether she is a star programer?" then I guess my answer would be:

                                                If you happen to work for a multinational corporation and you happen to
                                                drive back to your (company supplied) home in a Southern California
                                                "gated community" (3 pools, tennis courts, electric gates) by the
                                                wonderful (Really!) road going between Malibu and Thousand Oaks, and
                                                while driving the (company supplied) car you happen to hit a car going
                                                the other way and totally trash your and the other drivers car (but no
                                                one gets hurt) and the company simply sends you a new car and have their
                                                lawyers take care of everything for you, without you having to to pay a
                                                penny, display insurance papers etc. then you must be a star programer :-)

                                                <sigh> Yes, I was once that good... ;-))

                                                Now seriously, you seem to describe something very similar to the
                                                "Surgical Team" that Fred Brooks describes in chapter 3 of the now
                                                famous "The Mythical Man-Month". Since I can't quote the entire chapter
                                                I'd advice you to go read the book. It's boring as hell, but still very
                                                important.

                                                Besides it (the book) makes a hell of a crushing answer when some dumb
                                                ass pointy haired manager tries to convince you to take in new team
                                                members to try and make a late project deliver on time and you go:
                                                "That will only make the project *MORE* late, not less!" and he goes:
                                                "Says who?". At this point I simply send them the title and the ISBN of
                                                the book and a link to it on Amazon.. ;-)

                                                I always thought the Surgical Team idea is very good except of the
                                                social implications but never heard of any place this actually got tried
                                                out in.

                                                Interestingly, once can think of the Open Source development model
                                                presented by Linux and ilk as a sort of Surgical Team development:
                                                The developers write code, someone else tests, yet someone else
                                                documents (well, maybe... ;-) This in addition to many of the
                                                "communication and administration" functions becoming unnecessary
                                                because of the extremely low cost of communication.
                                                Well, maybe I'm stretching it too far...

                                                Gilad.

                                                --
                                                Gilad Ben-Yossef <gilad@...>
                                                http://benyossef.com :: +972(54)756701
                                                "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, while interrupts are disabled. "
                                                -- Murphey's law of kernel programing.
                                              • Shlomi Fish
                                                ... Then subscribe to shlomif-tpdos-subscribe@vipe.technion.ac.il and I ll send notices there whenever I update it. God bless ezmlm. Regards, Shlomi Fish ...
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Dec 11, 2000
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                                                  On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Chen Shapira wrote:

                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are
                                                  > > interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is
                                                  > > updated. E-mail me if you wish to be added.
                                                  >
                                                  > I'm interested.
                                                  >

                                                  Then subscribe to shlomif-tpdos-subscribe@... and I'll
                                                  send notices there whenever I update it. God bless ezmlm.

                                                  Regards,

                                                  Shlomi Fish

                                                  >
                                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                  > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                                                  Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                                                  Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                                                  The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of
                                                  converting any statement that follows it into a true one.
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