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Re: [hackers-il] Digital Whisper issue #1

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  • Micha Feigin
    On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:47:06 +0200 ... With PDF you assure format and don t have math and font issues With a PDF version I can more easily archive the article
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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      On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:47:06 +0200
      Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> wrote:

      > On Sunday 04 Oct 2009 09:42:06 Omer Zak wrote:
      > > In my opinion, PDF format is a fine choice, and I'd advise it to be
      > > first choice for fully sighted people.
      >
      > Why? Show me your reasons! In the previous message, I've given several reasons
      > for its problematic nature:
      >

      > <<<<<<<<<<<<<
      > 1. Why are the articles in PDF format? PDF suffers from poor accessibility,
      > inconvenience, low ability to be hacked and re-used, and other problems.
      > I don't have a PDF viewer configured in my browser, and when clicking on the
      > link, one of them was downloaded to my hard-disk, and I am too inconvenienced
      > to open it using a PDF viewer.
      > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      >
      > Please offer a rebuttal for them.
      >

      With PDF you assure format and don't have math and font issues

      With a PDF version I can more easily archive the article and print it

      You can always use open with instead of save to open the article in a pdf viewer

      > > For people with special needs, do provide also a HTML/XHTML version, as
      > > suggested by Shlomi.
      >
      > I am not sight-impaired but I also prefer HTML/XHTML due to the advantages
      > above. A PDF version unnecessarily inconveniences me.

      Personally for light reading I like html for serious papers pdf is much better.

      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Shlomi Fish
      >
      > >
      > > --- Omer
      > >
      > > On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 20:02 +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote:
      > > > On Saturday 03 Oct 2009 18:09:30 Moshe Ben Abu wrote:
      > > > > Thanks for the feedback, I've sent it to the authors.
      > > > > What kind of format you suggest the magazine should be..?
      > > >
      > > > HTML or XHTML preferably. Possibly with some help from CSS, MathML, SVG,
      > > > PNG, etc.
      > > >
      > > > Note that you can create the magazine in various formats (including XHTML
      > > > , PDF and even MS Word) using such technologies as:
      > > >
      > > > http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/web/choice-of-docs-formats
      > > >/
      > > >
      > > > Regards,
      > > >
      > > > Shlomi Fish
      > >
      >
    • Micha Feigin
      On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:25:51 +0200 ... I find that to generally be seriously broken
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 6, 2009
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        On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:25:51 +0200
        Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> wrote:

        > On Sunday 04 Oct 2009 13:09:51 Dotan Cohen wrote:
        > > > 1. Why are the articles in PDF format? PDF suffers from poor
        > > > accessibility, inconvenience, low ability to be hacked and re-used, and
        > > > other problems. I don't have a PDF viewer configured in my browser, and
        > > > when clicking on the link, one of them was downloaded to my hard-disk,
        > > > and I am too inconvenienced to open it using a PDF viewer.
        > >
        > > I actually think that PDF is great. It is freely available, preserves
        > > formatting across OS / applications, and is contained in a single file
        > > ([X]HTML is not).
        >
        > The latter can be solved using solutions such as .zip or tar.gz or a CHM :
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Compiled_HTML_Help
        >
        > Also, you can always put the HTML you want under a certain path on the server
        > and use mirroring tools. So it's a solved problem.
        >
        > > Is is searchable and the text is extractable.
        >
        > It is not as searchable as HTML or XML is, and the text is not easily
        > extractable if there is fancy formatting or layout. And not all FOSS PDF
        > viewers have adequate mechanisms for it.
        >
        > > Is is
        > > also accessible to the disabled, though Linux support for that feature
        > > may be missing (a problem with Linux applications, not with PDF
        > > itself).
        >
        > It's much less accessible to the disabled than XHTML is.
        >
        > > There are RTL issues with PDF though.
        > >
        >
        > Big RTL issues.
        >
        > Nevertheless, by using DocBook/XML and other tools one can easily generate
        > both XHTML and PDF output. And you can convert XHTML to PDF too using the
        > print-to-file function of the browsers.
        >

        I find that to generally be seriously broken

        > Regards,
        >
        > Shlomi Fish
        >
        > > >> If anyone is willing to contribute, submit an article or give a
        > > >> feedback, contact Digital Whisper crew here -
        > > >> editor@...
        > >
        > > When I get around to it!
        > >
        >
      • Dotan Cohen
        ... CHM is far from being a universally-available solution. No ebook reader can read it, and the choices for reading CHM files under Linux are slim.
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 9, 2009
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          >> I actually think that PDF is great. It is freely available, preserves
          >> formatting across OS / applications, and is contained in a single file
          >> ([X]HTML is not).
          >
          > The latter can be solved using solutions such as .zip or tar.gz or a CHM :
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Compiled_HTML_Help
          >
          > Also, you can always put the HTML you want under a certain path on the server
          > and use mirroring tools. So it's a solved problem.
          >

          CHM is far from being a universally-available solution. No ebook
          reader can read it, and the choices for reading CHM files under Linux
          are slim. Furthermore, being HTML-based, there is no reference
          implementation for formatting, so it will look different on every
          device.


          >> Is is searchable and the text is extractable.
          >
          > It is not as searchable as HTML or XML is, and the text is not easily
          > extractable if there is fancy formatting or layout. And not all FOSS PDF
          > viewers have adequate mechanisms for it.
          >

          So fix your FOSS software. This would need to be done anyway for CHM,
          read the previous comment.


          >> Is is
          >> also accessible to the disabled, though Linux support for that feature
          >> may be missing (a problem with Linux applications, not with PDF
          >> itself).
          >
          > It's much less accessible to the disabled than XHTML is.
          >

          Please explain. PDF has disability features built into the document.
          You might also want to read up on reflowing PDF documetns for
          small-screen devices and screen readers.


          >> There are RTL issues with PDF though.
          >>
          >
          > Big RTL issues.
          >

          I take that back. There are RTL isues with FOSS PDF readers. Acrobat
          on Vista seems to have all the RTL issues taken care of.


          > Nevertheless, by using DocBook/XML and other tools one can easily generate
          > both XHTML and PDF output. And you can convert XHTML to PDF too using the
          > print-to-file function of the browsers.
          >

          This is a good point. Does the author want to give multiple options?


          --
          Dotan Cohen

          http://what-is-what.com
          http://gibberish.co.il
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