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Re: [hackers-il] FW: Open Source Database Programming Recommendation.

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  • Tzafrir Cohen
    ... SapDB/MaxDB and MySQL are two different programs. MaxDB doesn t seem to be used by so many people. MySQL is more useful in the lower ends, where there
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1, 2004
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      On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 11:28:50PM +0200, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
      >
      > Because of the lack of good answers, I am sending this here(the mail below).
      > (even though most of the hackers-il list is also on linux-il)
      > maybe a hacker perspective will help.
      > I was recommended by someone who messed with optimizers
      > to use postgreSql.
      > However, seeing all the fuss about mysql I am tempted to use it.
      > Mysql is the new rising star since SAP and other large companies
      > are spreading their wings around this and the algoritms needs all
      > the publicity it can get.
      >
      > Something I didn't mention earlier is that everything will probably be done
      > as part of my thesis (so I don't get paid :), but I want to do a good job.
      > 10x.

      SapDB/MaxDB and MySQL are two different programs. MaxDB doesn't seem to
      be used by so many people. MySQL is more useful in the lower ends, where
      there shouldn't be many JOINs in the first place.

      If visibility is what you're after, PostgreSQL is probably the first choice.

      Someone else also recommended Firebird.

      Have you reviewed smaller database engines, BTW?
      SQLite, picosql, and others.

      For a more comprehensive list:
      http://freshmeat.net/browse/67/

      --
      Tzafrir Cohen +---------------------------+
      http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
      mailto:tzafrir@... +---------------------------+
    • HANANE SBAI
      thaks for message i dont use your programme beaucose i not endresstent english tkhnk you ... On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 11:28:50PM +0200, Tzahi Fadida ... this
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 2004
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        thaks for message i dont use your programme beaucose i
        not endresstent english "tkhnk you"
        --- Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir@...> a écrit :

        ---------------------------------
        On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 11:28:50PM +0200, Tzahi Fadida
        wrote:
        >
        > Because of the lack of good answers, I am sending
        this here(the mail below).
        > (even though most of the hackers-il list is also on
        linux-il)
        > maybe a hacker perspective will help.
        > I was recommended by someone who messed with
        optimizers
        > to use postgreSql.
        > However, seeing all the fuss about mysql I am
        tempted to use it.
        > Mysql is the new rising star since SAP and other
        large companies
        > are spreading their wings around this and the
        algoritms needs all
        > the publicity it can get.
        >
        > Something I didn't mention earlier is that
        everything will probably be done
        > as part of my thesis (so I don't get paid :), but I
        want to do a good job.
        > 10x.

        SapDB/MaxDB and MySQL are two different programs.
        MaxDB doesn't seem to
        be used by so many people. MySQL is more useful in the
        lower ends, where
        there shouldn't be many JOINs in the first place.

        If visibility is what you're after, PostgreSQL is
        probably the first choice.

        Someone else also recommended Firebird.

        Have you reviewed smaller database engines, BTW?
        SQLite, picosql, and others.

        For a more comprehensive list:
        http://freshmeat.net/browse/67/

        --
        Tzafrir Cohen
        +---------------------------+
        http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's
        best friend|
        mailto:tzafrir@...
        +---------------------------+

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      • Tzahi Fadida
        ... hmm... that seems to be true but they say in their site that the new versions can handle enterprise data which seems to imply to me, dealing with many
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 1, 2004
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          > On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 11:28:50PM +0200, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
          > >
          > > Because of the lack of good answers, I am sending this
          > here(the mail
          > > below). (even though most of the hackers-il list is also on
          > linux-il)
          > > maybe a hacker perspective will help. I was recommended by
          > someone who
          > > messed with optimizers to use postgreSql.
          > > However, seeing all the fuss about mysql I am tempted to use it.
          > > Mysql is the new rising star since SAP and other large companies
          > > are spreading their wings around this and the algoritms needs all
          > > the publicity it can get.
          > >
          > > Something I didn't mention earlier is that everything will
          > probably be
          > > done as part of my thesis (so I don't get paid :), but I
          > want to do a
          > > good job. 10x.
          >
          > SapDB/MaxDB and MySQL are two different programs. MaxDB
          > doesn't seem to be used by so many people. MySQL is more
          > useful in the lower ends, where there shouldn't be many JOINs
          > in the first place.

          hmm... that seems to be true but they say in their site that the new
          versions
          can handle enterprise data which seems to imply to me, dealing with many
          tables.
          btw, I need to handle joins of many many tables at one query.

          >
          > If visibility is what you're after, PostgreSQL is probably
          > the first choice.

          I don't understand something there, they talk about something called genetic
          query
          optimization. this doesn't sound like the traditional optimizers and I am
          not sure
          it will do for me. i.e. research is needed to check that. it seems from just
          lightly
          reading the material that it doesn't realy matter but you can never tell.

          >
          > Someone else also recommended Firebird.

          well, firebird is in transition to version 2 so I am not comforatble to work
          with them.

          >
          > Have you reviewed smaller database engines, BTW?
          > SQLite, picosql, and others.

          the smaller ones are not what I aim for because of the visibility issues.
          also, I need good optimizers because I work with joins which could take
          exponential
          time to finish (the main problem with joins).

          >
          > For a more comprehensive list:
          > http://freshmeat.net/browse/67/
          >
          > --
          > Tzafrir Cohen +---------------------------+
          > http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend|
          > mailto:tzafrir@... +---------------------------+
          >
          >
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        • Arik Baratz
          ... Tsahi, Can you give an example of Join that takes exponential time? I can t think of one, all the joins I ever wrote finish in polynomial time. -- Arik
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 1, 2004
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            On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:04:58 +0200, Tzahi Fadida <tzahi_ml@...> wrote:
            >
            > the smaller ones are not what I aim for because of the visibility issues.
            > also, I need good optimizers because I work with joins which could take
            > exponential
            > time to finish (the main problem with joins).

            Tsahi,

            Can you give an example of Join that takes exponential time? I can't
            think of one, all the joins I ever wrote finish in polynomial time.

            -- Arik
          • Tzahi Fadida
            they maybe finish in polynomial time but scientifically the O complexity is exponential. for example. if I have N relations with 2 tuples each and they all
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 2, 2004
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              they maybe finish in polynomial time but scientifically the O complexity is
              exponential. for example. if I have N relations with 2 tuples each and they
              all connect
              with a JOIN, you get 2^N in the output.
              btw, many time you will see in papers a polynomial time joins. it can happen
              if they measure the output as is, I.e. polynomial in the input-output. so
              even
              if the output is exponential the measure is polynomial. i.e. the algorithm
              itself
              runs in exponential time.

              However I myself am concerned with a series of outer joins which are even
              worse.

              Regards,
              tzahi.

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Arik Baratz [mailto:arik.baratz@...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:18 AM
              > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [hackers-il] FW: Open Source Database
              > Programming Recommendation.
              >
              >
              >
              > On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:04:58 +0200, Tzahi Fadida
              > <tzahi_ml@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > the smaller ones are not what I aim for because of the visibility
              > > issues. also, I need good optimizers because I work with
              > joins which
              > > could take exponential time to finish (the main problem with joins).
              >
              > Tsahi,
              >
              > Can you give an example of Join that takes exponential time?
              > I can't think of one, all the joins I ever wrote finish in
              > polynomial time.
              >
              > -- Arik
              >
              >
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            • Shlomi Fish
              ... One reason you may not be able to contribute to MySQL is because the core developers are using BitKeeper as a version control system. They don t release
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 12, 2004
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                On Sunday 31 October 2004 23:28, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
                > Because of the lack of good answers, I am sending this here(the mail
                > below). (even though most of the hackers-il list is also on linux-il)
                > maybe a hacker perspective will help.
                > I was recommended by someone who messed with optimizers
                > to use postgreSql.
                > However, seeing all the fuss about mysql I am tempted to use it.

                One reason you may not be able to contribute to MySQL is because the core
                developers are using BitKeeper as a version control system. They don't
                release snapshots during the pre-Alpha stage where most of the feature-adding
                takes place so you have to use BitKeeper for that. And I strongly recommend
                against using the gratis version of BitKeeper:

                http://better-scm.berlios.de/comparison/bk-license.html
                http://better-scm.berlios.de/bk/bk_suitability.html

                You can try using something like openbkweb to access it, but I don't know if
                it'll work.

                Regards,

                Shlomi Fish


                ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                Homepage: http://www.shlomifish.org/

                Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire.
              • Tzahi Fadida
                We have decided to go with PostgreSQL. it s the closest Open Source RDBMS to a real RDBMS. The other choice was FireBird but as I was going thru their
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 14, 2004
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                  We have decided to go with PostgreSQL.
                  it's the closest Open Source RDBMS to a real RDBMS. The other choice was
                  FireBird
                  but as I was going thru their documentation and interviews with the
                  maintainers and
                  authors I saw that one of the major reasons they went to version 2 is that
                  the code was
                  a mess. Obviously I am trying to avoid this kind of thing.
                  Regards,
                  tzahi.

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
                  > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 11:27 AM
                  > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [hackers-il] FW: Open Source Database
                  > Programming Recommendation.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sunday 31 October 2004 23:28, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
                  > > Because of the lack of good answers, I am sending this
                  > here(the mail
                  > > below). (even though most of the hackers-il list is also on
                  > linux-il)
                  > > maybe a hacker perspective will help. I was recommended by
                  > someone who
                  > > messed with optimizers to use postgreSql.
                  > > However, seeing all the fuss about mysql I am tempted to use it.
                  >
                  > One reason you may not be able to contribute to MySQL is
                  > because the core
                  > developers are using BitKeeper as a version control system.
                  > They don't
                  > release snapshots during the pre-Alpha stage where most of
                  > the feature-adding
                  > takes place so you have to use BitKeeper for that. And I
                  > strongly recommend
                  > against using the gratis version of BitKeeper:
                  >
                  > http://better-scm.berlios.de/comparison/bk-license.html
                  > http://better-scm.berlios.de/bk/bk_suitability.html
                  >
                  > You can try using something like openbkweb to access it, but
                  > I don't know if
                  > it'll work.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Shlomi Fish
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                  > Homepage: http://www.shlomifish.org/
                  >
                  > Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire.
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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