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RE: [hackers-il] Meta: Yahoo Groups "Gzeiroth" (limitations)

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  • Obu.Forums Admin
    [sniped] ... [sniped] hi all. im what u would call a watcher in this list. thuogh im not a hacker (not by a long shot). i do enjoy software, and defently enjoy
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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      [sniped]

      >3. Move all the past messages to a safe place (Perl/LWP anyone? Or does
      >anyone
      >has an mbox archive of all or most of them? I've deleted mine) and
      >establish
      >a new mailing list on our hackers.org.il domain.
      [sniped]

      hi all.
      im what u would call a watcher in this list.
      thuogh im not a hacker (not by a long shot).
      i do enjoy software, and defently enjoy the discussions on this list.
      its been one of my favourets for a while..
      my question would be regarding the option mentioned above.
      will this affect any of the other memberes (refaring to the less active ones
      like myself).
      would it become a closed list. or contineu as it is today?

      thx all.
      Anees N.

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    • Ori Idan
      I did not know that there is already a domain so I think we should build a home page and store it either on IGLU or Hamakor server if possible. -- Ori Idan
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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        I did not know that there is already a domain so I think we should build
        a home page and store it either on IGLU or Hamakor server if possible.

        --
        Ori Idan
      • Nadav Har'El
        ... Get real, the disk space is not an issue. How much space do you think the hackers-il archives take, one megabyte a year? The bigger issue is the
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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          On Wed, Feb 04, 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Meta: Yahoo Groups "Gzeiroth" (limitations)":
          > > That I think would be the best solution, we need both a storage space
          >..
          > Just a correction - we already have the domain. As for storage space, there's
          > a mailing list service on both beak.hamakor.org.il and iglu.org.il. IGLU has
          > a large disk-space issue, so I'd rather we did not use it for this, until we
          > get bigger disks.

          Get real, the disk space is not an issue. How much space do you think the
          hackers-il archives take, one megabyte a year?

          The bigger issue is the configuration time. Without this issue, I would have
          just offered to host hackers-il on ivrix.org.il...

          > cannot really say the same on Kwiki and much less Chiq-Chaq). Unless someone
          > can testify another Wiki is a good one, I say we go with TWiki.

          MediaWiki, the one running wikipedia, is probably the best of the wikis.


          --
          Nadav Har'El | Wednesday, Feb 4 2004, 12 Shevat 5764
          nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
          Phone: +972-53-790466, ICQ 13349191 |An egotist is a person of low taste, more
          http://nadav.harel.org.il |interested in himself than in me.
        • Arik Baratz
          ... From: Ori Idan [mailto:ori@helicontech.co.il] ... Knock knock... Hello... domain: hackers.org.il descr: Arik Baratz descr: 2 Hehadas st.
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ori Idan [mailto:ori@...]

            > hackers.org.il
            >
            > That I think would be the best solution, we need both a storage space
            > and buying the domain, We can collect the money to buy the domain
            > together, it should be about 50 US$ per 2 years so I think we can raise
            > the money together.


            Knock knock... Hello...

            domain: hackers.org.il
            descr: Arik Baratz
            descr: 2 Hehadas st.
            descr: Hadera
            descr: 38246
            descr: Israel

            I already paid for the domain

            > As for the storage space, I don't know since we need a big space for all
            > the archives.

            Let's see. I'm taking high estimates on purpose.

            1 message uncompressed = 5KB
            Mailing list volume: 5 messages/day
            25kb/day * 400 days/year = 10MB/year

            I think that 10MB should be sufficient for more than a year, because my estimates were very high.

            -- Arik

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          • Arik Baratz
            ... From: Alon Altman [mailto:alon@vipe.technion.ac.il] [snip] ... Don t we have some prominent HaMakor board members on the list already? -- Arik
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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              -----Original Message-----
              From: Alon Altman [mailto:alon@...]

              [snip]

              > Beak (Ha'makor's server) has a mailing list software installed. I suggest
              > you contact Ha'makor's board for hosting of the list, which is clearly in
              > the scope of the NPO's activities.

              Don't we have some prominent HaMakor board members on the list already?

              -- Arik
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            • Arik Baratz
              ... From: Obu.Forums Admin [mailto:sick_ace@hotmail.com] [snip] ... The correct name is a lurker (http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/L/lurker.html) ... I
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: Obu.Forums Admin [mailto:sick_ace@...]

                [snip]

                > hi all.
                > im what u would call a watcher in this list.

                The correct name is a lurker (http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/L/lurker.html)

                > my question would be regarding the option mentioned above.
                > will this affect any of the other memberes (refaring to the less active ones
                > like myself).
                > would it become a closed list. or contineu as it is today?

                I don't see why the list policy should change.

                -- Arik
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              • Shlomi Fish
                ... How about stalker.iguide.co.il? If I am to set it up, I ll probably need root, which will take some more time until I can afford to pay for it. Of course,
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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                  On Wednesday 04 February 2004 12:55, Nadav Har'El wrote:
                  > On Wed, Feb 04, 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Meta: Yahoo
                  Groups "Gzeiroth" (limitations)":
                  > > > That I think would be the best solution, we need both a storage space
                  > >
                  > >..
                  > > Just a correction - we already have the domain. As for storage space,
                  > > there's a mailing list service on both beak.hamakor.org.il and
                  > > iglu.org.il. IGLU has a large disk-space issue, so I'd rather we did not
                  > > use it for this, until we get bigger disks.
                  >
                  > Get real, the disk space is not an issue. How much space do you think the
                  > hackers-il archives take, one megabyte a year?
                  >
                  > The bigger issue is the configuration time. Without this issue, I would
                  > have just offered to host hackers-il on ivrix.org.il...
                  >

                  How about stalker.iguide.co.il? If I am to set it up, I'll probably need root,
                  which will take some more time until I can afford to pay for it.

                  Of course, someone else with a steady source of income can afford to pay 200
                  NIS/month (IIRC - correct me if I'm wrong) to become a full-fledged member of
                  stalker. Again, like I stressed before it would be much cheaper to pay for
                  YahooGroups for giving us a premium mailing list interface.

                  > > cannot really say the same on Kwiki and much less Chiq-Chaq). Unless
                  > > someone can testify another Wiki is a good one, I say we go with TWiki.
                  >
                  > MediaWiki, the one running wikipedia, is probably the best of the wikis.

                  I like Wikipedia very much and its Wiki Syntax is wonderful. Still, it does
                  seem like an overkill for many purposes. Even its site recommends using
                  "UseModWiki" (which I never worked with) instead.

                  If we don't wish to confuse newcomers with thousands of options, then TWiki
                  may be a better idea, because it has a limited, yet complete syntax, and very
                  little idiosyncracies. But this is just my opinion. I like both TWiki and
                  MediaWiki.

                  Regards,

                  Shlomi Fish

                  --

                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                  Homepage: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

                  I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died.
                  I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died.
                • Arik Baratz
                  ... From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [mailto:gilad@codefidence.com] [snip] ... Cool. Just call me and we ll make the necessary changes to name servers and stuff, when
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Gilad Ben-Yossef [mailto:gilad@...]

                    [snip]

                    > This list clearly falls under the 8th statement in Hamakor charter, so there's
                    > no problem to host it on Beak. It'll take me some time to set up the
                    > technical side - I'm a little busy at the moment...

                    Cool. Just call me and we'll make the necessary changes to name servers
                    and stuff, when you have the time.

                    Take care,

                    -- Arik
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                  • Nadav Har'El
                    ... Why do you want to discuss this issue on a public mailing list? You know very well that I already own that machine (stalker and ivrix are the same
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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                      On Wed, Feb 04, 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Meta: Yahoo Groups "Gzeiroth" (limitations)":
                      > > The bigger issue is the configuration time. Without this issue, I would
                      > > have just offered to host hackers-il on ivrix.org.il...
                      > >
                      >
                      > How about stalker.iguide.co.il? If I am to set it up, I'll probably need root,
                      > which will take some more time until I can afford to pay for it.

                      Why do you want to discuss this issue on a public mailing list?

                      You know very well that I already own that machine (stalker and ivrix are
                      the same machine), and that it won't cost me one red cent to host the domain
                      and/or mailing list on it. But as I said, I don't have time to configure
                      all the necessary stuff, unfortunately.

                      You also know very well that you have been hosted on stalker for over a year,
                      taking up 150 MB of disk space, given a shell account and unlimited bandwidth,
                      and you are yet to pay one shekel. So why do you bring up all these numbers
                      like 200 NIS/month? This number is absolutely irrelevant to this discussion.

                      We're hackers. Hosting stuff doesn't cost us money (many of us already have
                      servers that we're paying for), it costs us time. So either one of us ponies
                      up the time and runs this on his server, or somebody ponies up the money and
                      pays yahoo. Or, get this - we can just keep everything as is :)


                      --
                      Nadav Har'El | Wednesday, Feb 4 2004, 12 Shevat 5764
                      nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                      Phone: +972-53-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Cat rule #2: Bite the hand that won't
                      http://nadav.harel.org.il |feed you fast enough.
                    • Shlomi Fish
                      ... You are right that it may have been inappropriate here. In any case, I was thinking out loud and contemplating our possibilities. The thing is: I can
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 4, 2004
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                        On Wednesday 04 February 2004 15:49, Nadav Har'El wrote:
                        > On Wed, Feb 04, 2004, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Meta: Yahoo
                        Groups "Gzeiroth" (limitations)":
                        > > > The bigger issue is the configuration time. Without this issue, I would
                        > > > have just offered to host hackers-il on ivrix.org.il...
                        > >
                        > > How about stalker.iguide.co.il? If I am to set it up, I'll probably need
                        > > root, which will take some more time until I can afford to pay for it.
                        >
                        > Why do you want to discuss this issue on a public mailing list?
                        >

                        You are right that it may have been inappropriate here. In any case, I was
                        thinking out loud and contemplating our possibilities. The thing is: I can
                        easily set up a web-service for www.hackers.org.il with no need for root.
                        However, I do need a root for setting up the mail service. If I don't have
                        one, there's no way I can do it.

                        > You know very well that I already own that machine (stalker and ivrix are
                        > the same machine), and that it won't cost me one red cent to host the
                        > domain and/or mailing list on it. But as I said, I don't have time to
                        > configure all the necessary stuff, unfortunately.
                        >

                        Very well. So someone else will have to do it. ;-) I have the time, but I can
                        only try to host the domain on iglu.org.il, which is the only server I have
                        root on. Note that I never set up a new qmail domain before, just managed
                        existing ones, so I may have to RTFM a bit.

                        > You also know very well that you have been hosted on stalker for over a
                        > year, taking up 150 MB of disk space, given a shell account and unlimited
                        > bandwidth, and you are yet to pay one shekel.

                        Correct. That's between you and I. (email me in private for some more
                        information - I'd rather not discuss it here)

                        > So why do you bring up all
                        > these numbers like 200 NIS/month? This number is absolutely irrelevant to
                        > this discussion.
                        >

                        I meant that if someone (Arik?) wishes to become a co-admin of stalker he can,
                        and then he'll be able to set up everything we need (E-mail-wise at least - I
                        don't worry about the WWW-part).

                        > We're hackers. Hosting stuff doesn't cost us money (many of us already have
                        > servers that we're paying for), it costs us time. So either one of us
                        > ponies up the time and runs this on his server, or somebody ponies up the
                        > money and pays yahoo. Or, get this - we can just keep everything as is :)

                        Correct again.

                        I volunteer to ponie the time. But I do need root access, unless you want
                        iglu.org.il (which is in a flimsy state nowadays because of the ancient
                        distribution there), to be the host for this mail domain and mailing list as
                        well. And I'd rather wait until we have bigger hard-disks and install a more
                        modern distribution there. ("bimhera beyamenu amen sela")

                        Regards,

                        Shlomi Fish

                        --

                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                        Homepage: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

                        I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died.
                        I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died.
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