Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: lgpl help with java

Expand Messages
  • Shlomi Fish
    ... Actually, anyone would be able to sell it. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html But since it is freely distributed it won t make sense for you or
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 9, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:

      > Hi all,
      > i need help with lgpl stuff with java.
      > i wanted specifically to ask, if i open a closed source proprietery software will i be able to:
      > 1. will i be the only one able to sell it?

      Actually, anyone would be able to sell it.

      http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

      But since it is freely distributed it won't make sense for you or anyone
      else to sell it.

      > I mean, how does QT able to use open source libraries and still mandatorily sell their stuff
      > for commercial use.

      That's because Qt is distributed under the GPL and similar licenses. GPL
      cannot be integrated with proprietary software (and free software of
      incompatible licenses) without the copyright owner exempting you from it.
      Troll Tech (Qt's owner) is not selling the right to sell Qt, but to
      integrate it with software that will be later distributed.

      > 2. how much control would i have on the development process?
      >

      Technically, anyone would be able to take your code, fork it and create a
      competing project. (if copyleft, then he must put it under the same
      licensing terms). Practically, if you run a "Bazaar-style" development
      process, and listen to what your users and co-developers want, it isn't
      likely to happen.

      > an aside question, am i allowed to use LGPL libraries in a proprietery code?

      LGPL yes. GPL - no, unless you are the owner or was exempted from it by
      him.

      > and what if i want to only use parts of the code inside my owncode, is it allowed?

      If you copy and paste a relatively large LGPL code into your own code,
      then the file this code is in becomes LGPLed as well.

      > If not, if i create a class that use bits of code from LGPL and relase this class as LGPL but in the
      > proprietery software use an interface to that class without opening the code. is it allowed?
      >

      Anyone and anything can link to LGPL code without restrictions.

      Regards,

      Shlomi Fish

      > 10x.
      >
      > * - * - *
      > Tzahi Fadida
      > MSc Student
      > Information System Engineering Area
      > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
      > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
      > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
      > Email TzahiFadida@...
      > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
      > * - * -* - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
      >
      > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >



      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
      Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

      Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
      its license changed.

      Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
    • Shlomi Fish
      ... Reading from the license:
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 12, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:

        > hi all,
        > I wonder if you can help me understand what can i do with this license
        > SUN PUBLIC LICENSE Version 1.0
        > http://www.opensource.org/licenses/sunpublic.php
        >
        > I found the javacvs library in netbeans and i wish to use it in a priprietery program i am writing
        > (can't do anything about that). can i do that?
        > if not, is it like LGPL and i can use an interface to it and keep it open?
        >

        Reading from the license:

        <<<
        3.7. Larger Works.

        You may create a Larger Work by combining Covered Code with other code not
        governed by the terms of this License and distribute the Larger Work as a
        single product. In such a case, You must make sure the requirements of
        this License are fulfilled for the Covered Code.
        >>>

        This means you can integrate it into a larger work a la the LGPL. Whether
        you can close the source requires further investigation.

        Regards,

        Shlomi Fish

        > 10x.
        >
        >
        > * - * - *
        > Tzahi Fadida
        > MSc Student
        > Information System Engineering Area
        > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
        > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
        > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
        > Email TzahiFadida@...
        > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
        > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
        >
        > WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
        > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 9:37 PM
        > > To: Tzahi Fadida
        > > Cc: shlomif@...
        > > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
        > >
        > >
        > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
        > >
        > > > 10x!, its a lot of help.
        > > > i have another question. I asked the question because i and several others wish to
        > > request that the
        > > > OPCAT tool of OPM will be made open source.
        > > > However, there is another problem here. as i understand the OPM itself is patentedby
        > > the technion
        > > > and the creator said to me that you cannot write a software that uses that patent without his
        > > > permission.
        > > > so, in principal, it looks to me that if we convert OPCAT to gpl, and add an exception that the
        > > > patent can be used for non-commercial or profitable use then whoever will want to use
        > > the program or
        > > > branches or even draw it(OPM diagrams) on a paper for commercial use, will have to buy the use
        > > > rights from the technion.
        > > > however, there is a problem that comes to mind, if you releaseOPCAT under GPL does it takes away
        > > > your patent?
        > > >
        > >
        > > GPL poses some restrictions upon the patents the software that covers it
        > > can be encumbered by. IIRC, these patents need to be RAND ones, where rand
        > > is reasonable and non-discriminatory. Check:
        > >
        > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Oct/0018.html
        > >
        > > So, you cannot do this with the GPL. You can however, release the software
        > > under a license that is a modified GPL one, without these clauses. This
        > > won't make it compatible with other GPL software, though. Or you can use
        > > an entirely different license altogether. It's your call.
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Shlomi Fish
        > >
        > > >
        > > > * - * - *
        > > > Tzahi Fadida
        > > > MSc Student
        > > > Information System Engineering Area
        > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
        > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
        > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
        > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
        > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
        > > > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
        > > >
        > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
        > > >
        > > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
        > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 8:56 PM
        > > > > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Subject: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > Hi all,
        > > > > > i need help with lgpl stuff with java.
        > > > > > i wanted specifically to ask, if i open a closed source proprietery software will i
        > > be able to:
        > > > > > 1. will i be the only one able to sell it?
        > > > >
        > > > > Actually, anyone would be able to sell it.
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
        > > > >
        > > > > But since it is freely distributed it won't make sense for you or anyone
        > > > > else to sell it.
        > > > >
        > > > > > I mean, how does QT able to use open source libraries and still mandatorily sell their stuff
        > > > > > for commercial use.
        > > > >
        > > > > That's because Qt is distributed under the GPL and similar licenses. GPL
        > > > > cannot be integrated with proprietary software (and free software of
        > > > > incompatible licenses) without the copyright owner exempting you from it.
        > > > > Troll Tech (Qt's owner) is not selling the right to sell Qt, but to
        > > > > integrate it with software that will be later distributed.
        > > > >
        > > > > > 2. how much control would i have on the development process?
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Technically, anyone would be able to take your code, fork it and create a
        > > > > competing project. (if copyleft, then he must put it under the same
        > > > > licensing terms). Practically, if you run a "Bazaar-style" development
        > > > > process, and listen to what your users and co-developers want, it isn't
        > > > > likely to happen.
        > > > >
        > > > > > an aside question, am i allowed to use LGPL libraries in a proprietery code?
        > > > >
        > > > > LGPL yes. GPL - no, unless you are the owner or was exempted from it by
        > > > > him.
        > > > >
        > > > > > and what if i want to only use parts of the code inside my owncode, is it allowed?
        > > > >
        > > > > If you copy and paste a relatively large LGPL code into your own code,
        > > > > then the file this code is in becomes LGPLed as well.
        > > > >
        > > > > > If not, if i create a class that use bits of code from LGPL and relase this class as
        > > > > LGPL but in the
        > > > > > proprietery software use an interface to that class without opening the code. is it allowed?
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyone and anything can link to LGPL code without restrictions.
        > > > >
        > > > > Regards,
        > > > >
        > > > > Shlomi Fish
        > > > >
        > > > > > 10x.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > * - * - *
        > > > > > Tzahi Fadida
        > > > > > MSc Student
        > > > > > Information System Engineering Area
        > > > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
        > > > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
        > > > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
        > > > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
        > > > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
        > > > > > * - * -* - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
        > > > > >
        > > > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Youruse of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
        > > > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
        > > > >
        > > > > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
        > > > > its license changed.
        > > > >
        > > > > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
        > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
        > >
        > > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
        > > its license changed.
        > >
        > > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >



        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
        Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

        An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
        doctors away.

        Falk Fish
      • Tzahi Fadida
        hi all, I wonder if you can help me understand what can i do with this license SUN PUBLIC LICENSE Version 1.0 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/sunpublic.php
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 12, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          hi all,
          I wonder if you can help me understand what can i do with this license
          SUN PUBLIC LICENSE Version 1.0
          http://www.opensource.org/licenses/sunpublic.php

          I found the javacvs library in netbeans and i wish to use it in a priprietery program i am writing
          (can't do anything about that). can i do that?
          if not, is it like LGPL and i can use an interface to it and keep it open?

          10x.


          * - * - *
          Tzahi Fadida
          MSc Student
          Information System Engineering Area
          Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
          Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
          Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
          Email TzahiFadida@...
          Technion Email: Tzahi@...
          * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *

          WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 9:37 PM
          > To: Tzahi Fadida
          > Cc: shlomif@...
          > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
          >
          >
          > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
          >
          > > 10x!, its a lot of help.
          > > i have another question. I asked the question because i and several others wish to
          > request that the
          > > OPCAT tool of OPM will be made open source.
          > > However, there is another problem here. as i understand the OPM itself is patentedby
          > the technion
          > > and the creator said to me that you cannot write a software that uses that patent without his
          > > permission.
          > > so, in principal, it looks to me that if we convert OPCAT to gpl, and add an exception that the
          > > patent can be used for non-commercial or profitable use then whoever will want to use
          > the program or
          > > branches or even draw it(OPM diagrams) on a paper for commercial use, will have to buy the use
          > > rights from the technion.
          > > however, there is a problem that comes to mind, if you releaseOPCAT under GPL does it takes away
          > > your patent?
          > >
          >
          > GPL poses some restrictions upon the patents the software that covers it
          > can be encumbered by. IIRC, these patents need to be RAND ones, where rand
          > is reasonable and non-discriminatory. Check:
          >
          > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Oct/0018.html
          >
          > So, you cannot do this with the GPL. You can however, release the software
          > under a license that is a modified GPL one, without these clauses. This
          > won't make it compatible with other GPL software, though. Or you can use
          > an entirely different license altogether. It's your call.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Shlomi Fish
          >
          > >
          > > * - * - *
          > > Tzahi Fadida
          > > MSc Student
          > > Information System Engineering Area
          > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
          > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
          > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
          > > Email TzahiFadida@...
          > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
          > > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
          > >
          > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
          > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
          > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 8:56 PM
          > > > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Hi all,
          > > > > i need help with lgpl stuff with java.
          > > > > i wanted specifically to ask, if i open a closed source proprietery software will i
          > be able to:
          > > > > 1. will i be the only one able to sell it?
          > > >
          > > > Actually, anyone would be able to sell it.
          > > >
          > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
          > > >
          > > > But since it is freely distributed it won't make sense for you or anyone
          > > > else to sell it.
          > > >
          > > > > I mean, how does QT able to use open source libraries and still mandatorily sell their stuff
          > > > > for commercial use.
          > > >
          > > > That's because Qt is distributed under the GPL and similar licenses. GPL
          > > > cannot be integrated with proprietary software (and free software of
          > > > incompatible licenses) without the copyright owner exempting you from it.
          > > > Troll Tech (Qt's owner) is not selling the right to sell Qt, but to
          > > > integrate it with software that will be later distributed.
          > > >
          > > > > 2. how much control would i have on the development process?
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > Technically, anyone would be able to take your code, fork it and create a
          > > > competing project. (if copyleft, then he must put it under the same
          > > > licensing terms). Practically, if you run a "Bazaar-style" development
          > > > process, and listen to what your users and co-developers want, it isn't
          > > > likely to happen.
          > > >
          > > > > an aside question, am i allowed to use LGPL libraries in a proprietery code?
          > > >
          > > > LGPL yes. GPL - no, unless you are the owner or was exempted from it by
          > > > him.
          > > >
          > > > > and what if i want to only use parts of the code inside my owncode, is it allowed?
          > > >
          > > > If you copy and paste a relatively large LGPL code into your own code,
          > > > then the file this code is in becomes LGPLed as well.
          > > >
          > > > > If not, if i create a class that use bits of code from LGPL and relase this class as
          > > > LGPL but in the
          > > > > proprietery software use an interface to that class without opening the code. is it allowed?
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > Anyone and anything can link to LGPL code without restrictions.
          > > >
          > > > Regards,
          > > >
          > > > Shlomi Fish
          > > >
          > > > > 10x.
          > > > >
          > > > > * - * - *
          > > > > Tzahi Fadida
          > > > > MSc Student
          > > > > Information System Engineering Area
          > > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
          > > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
          > > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
          > > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
          > > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
          > > > > * - * -* - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
          > > > >
          > > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Youruse of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
          > > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
          > > >
          > > > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
          > > > its license changed.
          > > >
          > > > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
          > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
          >
          > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
          > its license changed.
          >
          > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
          >
          >
        • Tzahi Fadida
          I ve looked around and most say that the SPL is fundementaly the same as MPL - mozilla public license: http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.0-annotated-fs.html I
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 12, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I've looked around and most say that the SPL is fundementaly the same as MPL - mozilla public
            license: http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.0-annotated-fs.html
            I am still not convinced that i can:
            example:
            i have a proprietery project A.
            i have an MPL or SPL project B.
            i call from project A functions or procedures from B
            i keep project A proprietery.
            the end.

            from the writings i understand that of course i am free to do the opposite like adding
            proprietery code(if i own it) to the open sourece code, which doesn't help me.

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
            > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 1:34 PM
            > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
            >
            >
            > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
            >
            > > hi all,
            > > I wonder if you can help me understand what can i do with this license
            > > SUN PUBLIC LICENSE Version 1.0
            > > http://www.opensource.org/licenses/sunpublic.php
            > >
            > > I found the javacvs library in netbeans and i wish to use it in a priprietery program i
            > am writing
            > > (can't do anything about that). can i do that?
            > > if not, is it like LGPL and i can use an interface to it and keep it open?
            > >
            >
            > Reading from the license:
            >
            > <<<
            > 3.7. Larger Works.
            >
            > You may create a Larger Work by combining Covered Code with other code not
            > governed by the terms of this License and distribute the Larger Work as a
            > single product. In such a case, You must make sure the requirements of
            > this License are fulfilled for the Covered Code.
            > >>>
            >
            > This means you can integrate it into a larger work a la the LGPL. Whether
            > you can close the source requires further investigation.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Shlomi Fish
            >
            > > 10x.
            > >
            > >
            > > * - * - *
            > > Tzahi Fadida
            > > MSc Student
            > > Information System Engineering Area
            > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
            > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
            > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
            > > Email TzahiFadida@...
            > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
            > > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
            > >
            > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
            > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
            > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 9:37 PM
            > > > To: Tzahi Fadida
            > > > Cc: shlomif@...
            > > > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > 10x!, its a lot of help.
            > > > > i have another question. I asked the question because i and several others wish to
            > > > request that the
            > > > > OPCAT tool of OPM will be made open source.
            > > > > However, there is another problem here. as i understand the OPM itself is patentedby
            > > > the technion
            > > > > and the creator said to me that you cannot write a software that uses that patent
            > without his
            > > > > permission.
            > > > > so, in principal, it looks to me that if we convert OPCAT to gpl, and add an
            > exception that the
            > > > > patent can be used for non-commercial or profitable use then whoever will want to use
            > > > the program or
            > > > > branches or even draw it(OPM diagrams) on a paper for commercial use, will have to
            > buy the use
            > > > > rights from the technion.
            > > > > however, there is a problem that comes to mind, if you releaseOPCAT under GPL does
            > it takes away
            > > > > your patent?
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > GPL poses some restrictions upon the patents the software that covers it
            > > > can be encumbered by. IIRC, these patents need to be RAND ones, where rand
            > > > is reasonable and non-discriminatory. Check:
            > > >
            > > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Oct/0018.html
            > > >
            > > > So, you cannot do this with the GPL. You can however, release the software
            > > > under a license that is a modified GPL one, without these clauses. This
            > > > won't make it compatible with other GPL software, though. Or you can use
            > > > an entirely different license altogether. It's your call.
            > > >
            > > > Regards,
            > > >
            > > > Shlomi Fish
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > * - * - *
            > > > > Tzahi Fadida
            > > > > MSc Student
            > > > > Information System Engineering Area
            > > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
            > > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
            > > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
            > > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
            > > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
            > > > > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
            > > > >
            > > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
            > > > >
            > > > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
            > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 8:56 PM
            > > > > > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > > Subject: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hi all,
            > > > > > > i need help with lgpl stuff with java.
            > > > > > > i wanted specifically to ask, if i open a closed source proprietery software will i
            > > > be able to:
            > > > > > > 1. will i be the only one able to sell it?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Actually, anyone would be able to sell it.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
            > > > > >
            > > > > > But since it is freely distributed it won't make sense for you or anyone
            > > > > > else to sell it.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > I mean, how does QT able to use open source libraries and still mandatorily
            > sell their stuff
            > > > > > > for commercial use.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > That's because Qt is distributed under the GPL and similar licenses. GPL
            > > > > > cannot be integrated with proprietary software (and free software of
            > > > > > incompatible licenses) without the copyright owner exempting you from it.
            > > > > > Troll Tech (Qt's owner) is not selling the right to sell Qt, but to
            > > > > > integrate it with software that will be later distributed.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > 2. how much control would i have on the development process?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Technically, anyone would be able to take your code, fork it and create a
            > > > > > competing project. (if copyleft, then he must put it under the same
            > > > > > licensing terms). Practically, if you run a "Bazaar-style" development
            > > > > > process, and listen to what your users and co-developers want, it isn't
            > > > > > likely to happen.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > an aside question, am i allowed to use LGPL libraries in a proprietery code?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > LGPL yes. GPL - no, unless you are the owner or was exempted from it by
            > > > > > him.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > and what if i want to only use parts of the code inside my owncode, is it allowed?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > If you copy and paste a relatively large LGPL code into your own code,
            > > > > > then the file this code is in becomes LGPLed as well.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > If not, if i create a class that use bits of code from LGPL and relase this class as
            > > > > > LGPL but in the
            > > > > > > proprietery software use an interface to that class without opening the code.
            > is it allowed?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Anyone and anything can link to LGPL code without restrictions.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Regards,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Shlomi Fish
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > 10x.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > * - * - *
            > > > > > > Tzahi Fadida
            > > > > > > MSc Student
            > > > > > > Information System Engineering Area
            > > > > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
            > > > > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
            > > > > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
            > > > > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
            > > > > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
            > > > > > > * - * -* - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Youruse of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
            > > > > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
            > > > > > its license changed.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
            > > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
            > > >
            > > > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
            > > > its license changed.
            > > >
            > > > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
            > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
            >
            > An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
            > doctors away.
            >
            > Falk Fish
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Shlomi Fish
            ... Actually, I m pretty sure that the MPL can be used to linked against from within proprietary products. Otherwise, the Mozilla XUL would not have been such
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 17, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:

              > I've looked around and most say that the SPL is fundementaly the same as
              > MPL - mozilla public
              > license: http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.0-annotated-fs.html
              > I am still not convinced that i can:
              > example:
              > i have a proprietery project A.
              > i have an MPL or SPL project B.
              > i call from project A functions or procedures from B
              > i keep project A proprietery.
              > the end.
              >
              > from the writings i understand that of course i am free to do the opposite
              > like adding
              > proprietery code(if i own it) to the open sourece code,
              > which doesn't help me.

              Actually, I'm pretty sure that the MPL can be used to linked against from
              within proprietary products. Otherwise, the Mozilla XUL would not have
              been such a viable option for cross-platform GUI programming.

              Regards,

              Shlomi Fish


              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
              > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 1:34 PM
              > > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
              > >
              > >
              > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
              > >
              > > > hi all,
              > > > I wonder if you can help me understand what can i do with this license
              > > > SUN PUBLIC LICENSE Version 1.0
              > > > http://www.opensource.org/licenses/sunpublic.php
              > > >
              > > > I found the javacvs library in netbeans and i wish to use it in a priprietery program i
              > > am writing
              > > > (can't do anything about that). can i do that?
              > > > if not, is it like LGPL and i can use an interface to it and keep it open?
              > > >
              > >
              > > Reading from the license:
              > >
              > > <<<
              > > 3.7. Larger Works.
              > >
              > > You may create a Larger Work by combining Covered Code with other code not
              > > governed by the terms of this License and distribute the Larger Work as a
              > > single product. In such a case, You must make sure the requirements of
              > > this License are fulfilled for the Covered Code.
              > > >>>
              > >
              > > This means you can integrate it into a larger work a la the LGPL. Whether
              > > you can close the source requires further investigation.
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > >
              > > Shlomi Fish
              > >
              > > > 10x.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > * - * - *
              > > > Tzahi Fadida
              > > > MSc Student
              > > > Information System Engineering Area
              > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
              > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
              > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
              > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
              > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
              > > > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
              > > >
              > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
              > > >
              > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
              > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 9:37 PM
              > > > > To: Tzahi Fadida
              > > > > Cc: shlomif@...
              > > > > Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > 10x!, its a lot of help.
              > > > > > i have another question. I asked the question because i and several others wish to
              > > > > request that the
              > > > > > OPCAT tool of OPM will be made open source.
              > > > > > However, there is another problem here. as i understand the OPM itself is patentedby
              > > > > the technion
              > > > > > and the creator said to me that you cannot write a software that uses that patent
              > > without his
              > > > > > permission.
              > > > > > so, in principal, it looks to me that if we convert OPCAT to gpl, and add an
              > > exception that the
              > > > > > patent can be used for non-commercial or profitable use then whoever will want to use
              > > > > the program or
              > > > > > branches or even draw it(OPM diagrams) on a paper for commercial use, will have to
              > > buy the use
              > > > > > rights from the technion.
              > > > > > however, there is a problem that comes to mind, if you releaseOPCAT under GPL does
              > > it takes away
              > > > > > your patent?
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > GPL poses some restrictions upon the patents the software that covers it
              > > > > can be encumbered by. IIRC, these patents need to be RAND ones, where rand
              > > > > is reasonable and non-discriminatory. Check:
              > > > >
              > > > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-patentpolicy-comment/2001Oct/0018.html
              > > > >
              > > > > So, you cannot do this with the GPL. You can however, release the software
              > > > > under a license that is a modified GPL one, without these clauses. This
              > > > > won't make it compatible with other GPL software, though. Or you can use
              > > > > an entirely different license altogether. It's your call.
              > > > >
              > > > > Regards,
              > > > >
              > > > > Shlomi Fish
              > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > * - * - *
              > > > > > Tzahi Fadida
              > > > > > MSc Student
              > > > > > Information System Engineering Area
              > > > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
              > > > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
              > > > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
              > > > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
              > > > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
              > > > > > * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
              > > > > >
              > > > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
              > > > > >
              > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > > > From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:shlomif@...]
              > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 8:56 PM
              > > > > > > To: hackers-il@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > > Subject: [hackers-il] Re: lgpl help with java
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Tzahi Fadida wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Hi all,
              > > > > > > > i need help with lgpl stuff with java.
              > > > > > > > i wanted specifically to ask, if i open a closed source proprietery software will i
              > > > > be able to:
              > > > > > > > 1. will i be the only one able to sell it?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Actually, anyone would be able to sell it.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > But since it is freely distributed it won't make sense for you or anyone
              > > > > > > else to sell it.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > I mean, how does QT able to use open source libraries and still mandatorily
              > > sell their stuff
              > > > > > > > for commercial use.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > That's because Qt is distributed under the GPL and similar licenses. GPL
              > > > > > > cannot be integrated with proprietary software (and free software of
              > > > > > > incompatible licenses) without the copyright owner exempting you from it.
              > > > > > > Troll Tech (Qt's owner) is not selling the right to sell Qt, but to
              > > > > > > integrate it with software that will be later distributed.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > 2. how much control would i have on the development process?
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Technically, anyone would be able to take your code, fork it and create a
              > > > > > > competing project. (if copyleft, then he must put it under the same
              > > > > > > licensing terms). Practically, if you run a "Bazaar-style" development
              > > > > > > process, and listen to what your users and co-developers want, it isn't
              > > > > > > likely to happen.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > an aside question, am i allowed to use LGPL libraries in a proprietery code?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > LGPL yes. GPL - no, unless you are the owner or was exempted from it by
              > > > > > > him.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > and what if i want to only use parts of the code inside my owncode, is it allowed?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > If you copy and paste a relatively large LGPL code into your own code,
              > > > > > > then the file this code is in becomes LGPLed as well.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > If not, if i create a class that use bits of code from LGPL and relase this class as
              > > > > > > LGPL but in the
              > > > > > > > proprietery software use an interface to that class without opening the code.
              > > is it allowed?
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Anyone and anything can link to LGPL code without restrictions.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Regards,
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Shlomi Fish
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > 10x.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > * - * - *
              > > > > > > > Tzahi Fadida
              > > > > > > > MSc Student
              > > > > > > > Information System Engineering Area
              > > > > > > > Faculty of Industrial Engineering & Management
              > > > > > > > Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
              > > > > > > > Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
              > > > > > > > Email TzahiFadida@...
              > > > > > > > Technion Email: Tzahi@...
              > > > > > > > * - * -* - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > WARNING TO SPAMMERS:see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Youruse of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
              > > > > > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
              > > > > > > its license changed.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
              > > > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
              > > > >
              > > > > Writing a BitKeeper replacement is probably easier at this point than getting
              > > > > its license changed.
              > > > >
              > > > > Matt Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
              > > Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
              > >
              > > An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
              > > doctors away.
              > >
              > > Falk Fish
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >



              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
              Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

              An apple a day will keep a doctor away. Two apples a day will keep two
              doctors away.

              Falk Fish
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.