Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [hackers-il] Some more ideas

Expand Messages
  • Nadav Har'El
    ... Ok. Bring them on! ... Well, other messages talked about official Linux distribution, official language, and even official food (I nominate Mexican
    Message 1 of 14 , May 8, 2000
      On Mon, May 08, 2000, chen-egroups@...-unlimited.com wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Some more ideas":
      > On Sun, May 07, 2000 at 11:40:44PM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote:
      > > <GEEKSPEAK>
      > > Here are some more ideas of things It would be nice to discuss :)
      > > Of course, if you accept me into your group... I welcome any "test"! :)
      >
      > BTW. until we have an official test we can use omer's riddles

      Ok. Bring them on!

      > > 1. Beyond Unix:
      > > <SACRILEGIOUS>
      >
      > its not a sacrilege - like all software, unix sux.

      Well, other messages talked about "official" Linux distribution, "official"
      language, and even official food (I nominate Mexican food and Corona beer,
      by the way) - so I was afraid that even asking about other OS's would get
      me stoned (in the sense that people throw stones at me).

      What ever happened to Microsoft's Xenix anyway? :)

      > I can tell many good old days stories - if the hour is late enough, and the
      > drinks were good and the crowed is willing to listen.
      > Is writing music for an HP scanner also good?

      Hmmm.. Sounds good enough!
      Do you want to organize an orchestra?

      > 3. thats not philosophy - its sociology.

      I beg to differ. I haven't actually studied either, so I may be wrong,
      but sociology is about studying exisiting societies, not contemplating
      new ones, and not about contemplating about what makes a "just" or "perfect"
      society, what is "a mind" and what happens when you connect a billion of
      them with the Internet, and so on.

      > > 4. Programming:
      > > Most of fights I hear whether Perl, Python, Tcl, Java, C, C++, or whatever
      > > is better is a matter of "religion", and not of actually important
      > > differences. Are there new ideas in programming, and I mean *REALLY NEW*
      > > ideas in programming, waiting to be discovered? After 4GL, OOP and RAD,
      > > what will be the next breakthrough?
      >
      > Blatantly untrue.
      > C is assembly for PDP7 ported to all other platforms.

      *cough*
      "ported" is too weak a word. C (which is just an example for a whole family
      of languages) allowed you to write a single program which would work on a whole
      range of machines - from Commodore 64 (that's right! I had a C compiler for it!)
      through PCs, supercomputers, to the palm pilot. The VAX assembly programs I'd
      once written (VAX had an interesting instruction set...) are now worthless,
      yet I'm still using C programs I wrote 12 years ago.

      > Java is a high level language with GC and some abstraction.

      I've seen Pascal interpreters with bytecodes 15 years ago. Java is a good
      language, but doesn't add much new ideas to table.

      > Python is almost a language - only short of real GC and strong typing

      "almost a language"? Can I hear someone shouting in anger, screaming "that's
      not true, that's not true"? :)

      The horror, the horror...

      --
      Nadav Har'El | Monday, May 8 2000, 3 Iyyar 5760
      nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
      Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A conclusion is simply the place where
      http://nadav.harel.org.il |you got tired of thinking.
    • Ury Segal
      ... Let me describe you a full language - a counter language: 1) Add 1 to memory location X 2) check if content of memory location X equals K , and if it is ,
      Message 2 of 14 , May 8, 2000
        > > Python is almost a language - only short of real GC and strong typing
        >
        > "almost a language"? Can I hear someone shouting in anger, screaming "that's
        > not true, that's not true"? :)
        >

        Let me describe you a full language - a counter language:

        1) Add 1 to memory location X
        2) check if content of memory location X equals K , and if it is , skip the next instruction
        3) Stop

        This is a launguage that can do anything.

        Ofcourse, it can be easier to progeam with a JMP instruction, but that not
        neccery.

        >
        > The horror, the horror...
        >
        > --

        ObQuestion:

        I bet 10$ that within a month we will se a posting here that sais "unsubscribe" and then a message
        that will say "please unsubscribe me; how can I unsubscribe?"
      • chen-egroups@stallman.hackers-unlimited.
        ... Dinner in a resturant of choice for the first person who writes 99 bottles of beer with this. ... we better find him before he subscribes and stop him
        Message 3 of 14 , May 8, 2000
          On Mon, May 08, 2000 at 10:33:28AM +0300, Ury Segal wrote:

          > Let me describe you a full language - a counter language:
          >
          > 1) Add 1 to memory location X
          > 2) check if content of memory location X equals K , and if it is , skip the next instruction
          > 3) Stop
          >
          > This is a launguage that can do anything.

          Dinner in a resturant of choice for the first person who writes "99 bottles of
          beer" with this.

          >
          > ObQuestion:
          >
          > I bet 10$ that within a month we will se a posting here that sais "unsubscribe" and then a message
          > that will say "please unsubscribe me; how can I unsubscribe?"
          >

          we better find him before he subscribes and stop him :-)

          --
          Chen Shapira Web Developer and Linux Activist
          The algorithm for finding the longest path in a graph is NP-complete.
          For you systems people, that means it's *real slow*.
        • Moshe Zadka
          ... I won t fall to language wars, but if anyone wants a deep Python lecture (including Python bytecode, and how to use meta-classes to do really weird
          Message 4 of 14 , May 8, 2000
            On Mon, 8 May 2000, Nadav Har'El wrote:

            > > Python is almost a language - only short of real GC and strong typing
            >
            > "almost a language"? Can I hear someone shouting in anger, screaming "that's
            > not true, that's not true"? :)

            I won't fall to language wars, but if anyone wants a "deep" Python lecture
            (including Python bytecode, and how to use meta-classes to do really weird
            things) I'd be happy to give one., Of course, I assume people here will
            understand that a prerequisite is to take the two hours and go through the
            Python tutorial, so I won't have to go over basic details.


            --
            Moshe Zadka <moshez@...>
            http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html
            http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com
          • chen-egroups@stallman.hackers-unlimited.
            ... great! next week, your house, meeting at midnight, tibetian tea and deep python hacks till morning? ... -- Chen Shapira Web Developer and Linux Activist
            Message 5 of 14 , May 8, 2000
              On Mon, May 08, 2000 at 11:02:55AM +0300, Moshe Zadka wrote:
              > I won't fall to language wars, but if anyone wants a "deep" Python lecture
              > (including Python bytecode, and how to use meta-classes to do really weird
              > things) I'd be happy to give one., Of course, I assume people here will
              > understand that a prerequisite is to take the two hours and go through the
              > Python tutorial, so I won't have to go over basic details.

              great! next week, your house, meeting at midnight, tibetian tea and deep python
              hacks till morning?


              >
              >
              --
              Chen Shapira Web Developer and Linux Activist
              The algorithm for finding the longest path in a graph is NP-complete.
              For you systems people, that means it's *real slow*.
            • Moshe Zadka
              ... Thursday? -- Moshe Zadka http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com
              Message 6 of 14 , May 8, 2000
                On Mon, 8 May 2000 chen-egroups@...-unlimited.com wrote:

                > On Mon, May 08, 2000 at 11:02:55AM +0300, Moshe Zadka wrote:
                > > I won't fall to language wars, but if anyone wants a "deep" Python lecture
                > > (including Python bytecode, and how to use meta-classes to do really weird
                > > things) I'd be happy to give one., Of course, I assume people here will
                > > understand that a prerequisite is to take the two hours and go through the
                > > Python tutorial, so I won't have to go over basic details.
                >
                > great! next week, your house, meeting at midnight, tibetian tea and deep python
                > hacks till morning?

                Thursday?
                --
                Moshe Zadka <moshez@...>
                http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html
                http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com
              • Ury Segal
                ... It is very easy to write a program that will generate that program. It is even easy with THIS language !
                Message 7 of 14 , May 8, 2000
                  chen-egroups@...-unlimited.com wrote:

                  > On Mon, May 08, 2000 at 10:33:28AM +0300, Ury Segal wrote:
                  >
                  > > Let me describe you a full language - a counter language:
                  > >
                  > > 1) Add 1 to memory location X
                  > > 2) check if content of memory location X equals K , and if it is , skip the next instruction
                  > > 3) Stop
                  > >
                  > > This is a launguage that can do anything.
                  >
                  > Dinner in a resturant of choice for the first person who writes "99 bottles of
                  > beer" with this.

                  It is very easy to write a program that will generate that program.
                  It is even easy with THIS language !

                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  > > ObQuestion:
                  > >
                  > > I bet 10$ that within a month we will se a posting here that sais "unsubscribe" and then a message
                  > > that will say "please unsubscribe me; how can I unsubscribe?"
                  > >
                  >
                  > we better find him before he subscribes and stop him :-)
                  >
                  > --
                  > Chen Shapira Web Developer and Linux Activist
                  > The algorithm for finding the longest path in a graph is NP-complete.
                  > For you systems people, that means it's *real slow*.
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
                  > http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/9/_/_/_/957771692/
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                • Asaf Bartov
                  ... lecture ... really weird ... will ... through the ... I d be very interested to hear your take on Python. What sort of venue and setting do you (all)
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 8, 2000
                    --- In hackers-il@egroups.com, Moshe Zadka <moshez@m...> wrote:

                    > I won't fall to language wars, but if anyone wants a "deep" Python
                    lecture
                    > (including Python bytecode, and how to use meta-classes to do
                    really weird
                    > things) I'd be happy to give one., Of course, I assume people here
                    will
                    > understand that a prerequisite is to take the two hours and go
                    through the
                    > Python tutorial, so I won't have to go over basic details.

                    I'd be very interested to hear your take on Python. What sort of
                    venue and setting do you (all) suggest for this sort of thing?

                    Ijon
                  • Moshe Zadka
                    ... I m glad. ... Hmmmm....I m sure we could find somewhere to meet. If anyone want to set it up, I ll be glad. I think I ll be busy enough just preparing the
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 8, 2000
                      On Mon, 8 May 2000, Asaf Bartov wrote:

                      > I'd be very interested to hear your take on Python.

                      I'm glad.

                      > What sort of
                      > venue and setting do you (all) suggest for this sort of thing?

                      Hmmmm....I'm sure we could find somewhere to meet. If anyone want to set
                      it up, I'll be glad. I think I'll be busy enough just preparing the
                      lecture...

                      --
                      Moshe Zadka <moshez@...>
                      http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html
                      http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.