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ice- breaker [was: Re: [hackers-il] "Shrinkwrap" vs. In-House Software]

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  • Orna Agmon
    ... Do you really think that women are the equivalent of lowest common ground ? -- Orna. | http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon The trouble with a kitten is
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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      On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote:

      > noosphere had been homesteaded. BTW, Freecell Solver is an excellent ice
      > braker. "You know I wrote a program that solves Freecell boards?" "Really?
      > Wow! How did you do that." It's something every random guy (and especially
      > chicks) can understand.


      Do you really think that women are the equivalent of "lowest common
      ground"?

      --
      Orna. | http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon

      The trouble with a kitten is that
      Eventually, it becomes a cat. --Ogden Nash
    • Shlomi Fish
      ... Orna, that s not what my meant. I m just more interested in impressing girls than I do in impressing fellow Linux gurus. Most girls and guys out there
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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        On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Orna Agmon wrote:

        > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote:
        >
        > > noosphere had been homesteaded. BTW, Freecell Solver is an excellent ice
        > > braker. "You know I wrote a program that solves Freecell boards?" "Really?
        > > Wow! How did you do that." It's something every random guy (and especially
        > > chicks) can understand.
        >
        >
        > Do you really think that women are the equivalent of "lowest common
        > ground"?
        >

        Orna, that's not what my meant. I'm just more interested in impressing
        girls than I do in impressing fellow Linux gurus. Most girls and guys out
        there don't know too much about Linux, its internals, the Internet, and
        various protocols involved and all the other technobable. But everyone
        (well almost) knows about Freecell.

        I might be straight (which is also doubtedly not a good thing) but I'm not
        sexist. Honestly.

        > --
        > Orna. | http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon
        >
        > The trouble with a kitten is that
        > Eventually, it becomes a cat. --Ogden Nash
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >



        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
        Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
        Home E-mail: shlomif@...

        "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
        "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
      • Shlomi Fish
        ... LOL. Now I should work on a baby talk synthesizer so I can impress babes . (YHBT) Regards, Shlomi Fish ... Shlomi Fish shlomif@t2.technion.ac.il
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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          On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Chen Shapira wrote:

          >
          >
          > > Do you really think that women are the equivalent of "lowest common
          > > ground"?
          >
          > He didn't say "women", he said "chicks".
          >
          > From the dictionary:
          > chick:
          > 1. A young chicken.
          > 2. The young of any bird.
          >
          > Of course, if something is so simple that even small birds
          > can understand it, it must be a good line :-)
          >

          LOL. Now I should work on a baby talk synthesizer so I can impress
          "babes". (YHBT)

          Regards,

          Shlomi Fish

          > Thanks,
          > Chen
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >



          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
          Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
          Home E-mail: shlomif@...

          "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
          "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
        • Nadav Har'El
          ... Would you believe that I never heard of freecell before you told me about it? I know about Solitare (back from the Windows 3.1 days), but never heard of
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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            On Thu, Sep 19, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Re: ice- breaker [was: Re: "Shrinkwrap" vs. In-House Software]":
            > girls than I do in impressing fellow Linux gurus. Most girls and guys out
            > there don't know too much about Linux, its internals, the Internet, and
            > various protocols involved and all the other technobable. But everyone
            > (well almost) knows about Freecell.

            Would you believe that I never heard of freecell before you told me
            about it?

            I know about Solitare (back from the Windows 3.1 days), but never heard
            of the variant you call "freecell".

            --
            Nadav Har'El | Thursday, Sep 19 2002, 14 Tishri 5763
            nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
            Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Tact: The ability to describe others as
            http://nadav.harel.org.il |they see themselves. - Abraham Lincoln
          • Chen Shapira
            ... He didn t say women , he said chicks . From the dictionary: chick: 1. A young chicken. 2. The young of any bird. Of course, if something is so simple
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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              > Do you really think that women are the equivalent of "lowest common
              > ground"?

              He didn't say "women", he said "chicks".

              From the dictionary:
              chick:
              1. A young chicken.
              2. The young of any bird.

              Of course, if something is so simple that even small birds
              can understand it, it must be a good line :-)

              Thanks,
              Chen
            • Tzafrir Cohen
              ... Every windows ( =95) user, that is ... Which means that you are a Windows Illiterate. I have a feeling you don t really miss it. -- Tzafrir Cohen
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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                On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                > On Thu, Sep 19, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Re: ice- breaker [was: Re: "Shrinkwrap" vs. In-House Software]":
                > > girls than I do in impressing fellow Linux gurus. Most girls and guys out
                > > there don't know too much about Linux, its internals, the Internet, and
                > > various protocols involved and all the other technobable. But everyone
                > > (well almost) knows about Freecell.

                Every windows (>=95) user, that is

                >
                > Would you believe that I never heard of freecell before you told me
                > about it?
                >
                > I know about Solitare (back from the Windows 3.1 days), but never heard
                > of the variant you call "freecell".

                Which means that you are a Windows Illiterate.

                I have a feeling you don't really miss it.

                --
                Tzafrir Cohen
                mailto:tzafrir@...
                http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir
              • Omer Zak
                Hey my most cherished and dearest ladies, chicks and shrews, Leave him alone. Let him find what actually works and what not by actually trying his stuff in
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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                  Hey my most cherished and dearest ladies, chicks and shrews,

                  Leave him alone. Let him find what actually works and what not by
                  actually trying his stuff in parties and pubs.

                  --- Omer
                  WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

                  On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Chen Shapira wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > > Do you really think that women are the equivalent of "lowest common
                  > > ground"?
                  >
                  > He didn't say "women", he said "chicks".
                  >
                  > >From the dictionary:
                  > chick:
                  > 1. A young chicken.
                  > 2. The young of any bird.
                  >
                  > Of course, if something is so simple that even small birds
                  > can understand it, it must be a good line :-)
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Chen
                • Alexander Maryanovsky
                  ... *That* is a pickup line? What happened to Hi, I m Shlomi, what s your name? I doubt you ll pick up many girls your way. On the other hand, the ones you
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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                    >Of course a typical pick up line would be something like:
                    >
                    >1. Do you know this "Freecell" game in Windows?

                    *That* is a pickup line? What happened to "Hi, I'm Shlomi, what's your name?"
                    I doubt you'll pick up many girls your way. On the other hand, the ones you
                    will are keepers :-)


                    Sasha.

                    At 07:07 20.09.2002 +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
                    >On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
                    >
                    > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Re:
                    > ice- breaker [was: Re: "Shrinkwrap" vs. In-House Software]":
                    > > > > Would you believe that I never heard of freecell before you told me
                    > > > > about it?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I know about Solitare (back from the Windows 3.1 days), but never heard
                    > > > > of the variant you call "freecell".
                    > > >
                    > > > Which means that you are a Windows Illiterate.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a feeling you don't really miss it.
                    > >
                    > > That's not exactly true... Until two years ago, I was using Windows 95, 98
                    > > and NT quite frequently, and people were actually coming to me for solving
                    > > their Windows problems ;) But I always prefered Unix variants, and didn't
                    > > spend too much time exploring the wonderful world of built-in games in
                    > > Windows. I also never played mine-sweeper before I installed one on my Palm
                    > > Pilot [1].
                    > >
                    > > For some reason, I suspect that I'm not the person in the world who never
                    > > played this game... I would bet that a majority of the so-called chicks (as
                    > > well as a majority of the guys) have never laid eyes on this game.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [1] I also installed Solitaire, which I remembered fondly from Windows 3.1,
                    > > on my Palm Pilot. That was a mistake: I soon got addicted to playing it,
                    > > which wastes a lot of my time and wears down my Palm's touch-screen...
                    > > Anybody know of a solitairoholics anonymous group in the Haifa area? :)
                    > >
                    >
                    >I'll start one with you. I'm addicted to Freecell and to Simple Simon,
                    >both are present in the excellent PySol.
                    >
                    >
                    >Of course a typical pick up line would be something like:
                    >
                    >1. Do you know this "Freecell" game in Windows?
                    >2. Possible responses - is no - I only know solitaira then I go to never
                    >mind.
                    >3. Well I written (and worked on for quite a while) on a program that
                    >solves it automatically.
                    >
                    >Etc. Etc.
                    >
                    >Regards,
                    >
                    > Shlomi Fish
                    >
                    > > --
                    > > Nadav Har'El | Friday, Sep 20 2002, 14
                    > Tishri 5763
                    > >
                    > nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                    > > Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Why aren't fishmongers generous? Their
                    > > http://nadav.harel.org.il |business makes them selfish.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                    >Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                    >Home E-mail: shlomif@...
                    >
                    >"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
                    >"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Nadav Har'El
                    ... That s not exactly true... Until two years ago, I was using Windows 95, 98 and NT quite frequently, and people were actually coming to me for solving their
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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                      On Thu, Sep 19, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Re: ice- breaker [was: Re: "Shrinkwrap" vs. In-House Software]":
                      > > Would you believe that I never heard of freecell before you told me
                      > > about it?
                      > >
                      > > I know about Solitare (back from the Windows 3.1 days), but never heard
                      > > of the variant you call "freecell".
                      >
                      > Which means that you are a Windows Illiterate.
                      >
                      > I have a feeling you don't really miss it.

                      That's not exactly true... Until two years ago, I was using Windows 95, 98
                      and NT quite frequently, and people were actually coming to me for solving
                      their Windows problems ;) But I always prefered Unix variants, and didn't
                      spend too much time exploring the wonderful world of built-in games in
                      Windows. I also never played mine-sweeper before I installed one on my Palm
                      Pilot [1].

                      For some reason, I suspect that I'm not the person in the world who never
                      played this game... I would bet that a majority of the so-called chicks (as
                      well as a majority of the guys) have never laid eyes on this game.



                      [1] I also installed Solitaire, which I remembered fondly from Windows 3.1,
                      on my Palm Pilot. That was a mistake: I soon got addicted to playing it,
                      which wastes a lot of my time and wears down my Palm's touch-screen...
                      Anybody know of a solitairoholics anonymous group in the Haifa area? :)

                      --
                      Nadav Har'El | Friday, Sep 20 2002, 14 Tishri 5763
                      nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                      Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Why aren't fishmongers generous? Their
                      http://nadav.harel.org.il |business makes them selfish.
                    • Sagi Bashari
                      ... And you re not the only one. I ve been using all versions of windows since 3.11 and have never played freecell. I did play solitaire though, years ago. I
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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                        On 9/19/2002 11:46 PM, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                        >On Thu, Sep 19, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Re: ice- breaker [was: Re: "Shrinkwrap" vs. In-House Software]":
                        >
                        >
                        >>>Would you believe that I never heard of freecell before you told me
                        >>>about it?
                        >>>
                        >>>I know about Solitare (back from the Windows 3.1 days), but never heard
                        >>>of the variant you call "freecell".
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>Which means that you are a Windows Illiterate.
                        >>
                        >>I have a feeling you don't really miss it.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >That's not exactly true... Until two years ago, I was using Windows 95, 98
                        >and NT quite frequently, and people were actually coming to me for solving
                        >their Windows problems ;) But I always prefered Unix variants, and didn't
                        >spend too much time exploring the wonderful world of built-in games in
                        >Windows. I also never played mine-sweeper before I installed one on my Palm
                        >Pilot [1].
                        >
                        And you're not the only one. I've been using all versions of windows
                        since 3.11 and have never played freecell. I did play solitaire though,
                        years ago.

                        I still don't get the idea of using a computer program to solve a game,
                        except showing that it's possible.

                        Sagi
                      • Shlomi Fish
                        ... I ll start one with you. I m addicted to Freecell and to Simple Simon, both are present in the excellent PySol. Of course a typical pick up line would be
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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                          On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                          > On Thu, Sep 19, 2002, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] Re: ice- breaker [was: Re: "Shrinkwrap" vs. In-House Software]":
                          > > > Would you believe that I never heard of freecell before you told me
                          > > > about it?
                          > > >
                          > > > I know about Solitare (back from the Windows 3.1 days), but never heard
                          > > > of the variant you call "freecell".
                          > >
                          > > Which means that you are a Windows Illiterate.
                          > >
                          > > I have a feeling you don't really miss it.
                          >
                          > That's not exactly true... Until two years ago, I was using Windows 95, 98
                          > and NT quite frequently, and people were actually coming to me for solving
                          > their Windows problems ;) But I always prefered Unix variants, and didn't
                          > spend too much time exploring the wonderful world of built-in games in
                          > Windows. I also never played mine-sweeper before I installed one on my Palm
                          > Pilot [1].
                          >
                          > For some reason, I suspect that I'm not the person in the world who never
                          > played this game... I would bet that a majority of the so-called chicks (as
                          > well as a majority of the guys) have never laid eyes on this game.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [1] I also installed Solitaire, which I remembered fondly from Windows 3.1,
                          > on my Palm Pilot. That was a mistake: I soon got addicted to playing it,
                          > which wastes a lot of my time and wears down my Palm's touch-screen...
                          > Anybody know of a solitairoholics anonymous group in the Haifa area? :)
                          >

                          I'll start one with you. I'm addicted to Freecell and to Simple Simon,
                          both are present in the excellent PySol.


                          Of course a typical pick up line would be something like:

                          1. Do you know this "Freecell" game in Windows?
                          2. Possible responses - is no - I only know solitaira then I go to never
                          mind.
                          3. Well I written (and worked on for quite a while) on a program that
                          solves it automatically.

                          Etc. Etc.

                          Regards,

                          Shlomi Fish

                          > --
                          > Nadav Har'El | Friday, Sep 20 2002, 14 Tishri 5763
                          > nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                          > Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Why aren't fishmongers generous? Their
                          > http://nadav.harel.org.il |business makes them selfish.
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >



                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                          Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                          Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                          "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
                          "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
                        • Oleg Goldshmidt
                          ... I never even learned the rules of Solitaire until an employer of mine gave me an iPAQ. I got bored after about 3 minutes, and I was waiting for my plane at
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 19, 2002
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                            "Nadav Har'El" <nyh@...> writes:

                            > I also never played mine-sweeper before I installed one on my Palm
                            > Pilot [1].

                            I never even learned the rules of Solitaire until an employer of mine
                            gave me an iPAQ. I got bored after about 3 minutes, and I was waiting
                            for my plane at Heathrow at the time. I still don't know what Freecell
                            is. I gather it is a game, but what is the point of a game if a
                            machine can "solve" it (I guess that's what Shlomi's s/w does).

                            ;-)

                            --
                            Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
                            =================================================================
                            "... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
                            the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]
                          • Oleg Goldshmidt
                            ... I am glad it works for Shlomi. I also hope the other party asks to explain the algorithms. Will one of the chicks[1], broads, gals (a.k.a. beautiful
                            Message 13 of 22 , Sep 20, 2002
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                              Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:

                              > 1. Do you know this "Freecell" game in Windows?
                              > 2. Possible responses - is no - I only know solitaira then I go to never
                              > mind.
                              > 3. Well I written (and worked on for quite a while) on a program that
                              > solves it automatically.

                              I am glad it works for Shlomi. I also hope the other party asks to
                              explain the algorithms.

                              Will one of the chicks[1], broads, gals (a.k.a. beautiful ladies) on
                              this list explain to me[2] why this would work as a pick-up line? I
                              never wrote a freecell solver, so I am afraid to use it lest I am
                              exposed as a fraud quickly. Will "I know a guy who wrote a freecell
                              solver" be effective? Will "I used to be Russia's checkers champion
                              and I did not use a computer for that" be helpful?

                              [1] GeekChicks: http://www.geekchicks.com/
                              LinuxChix: http://linuxchix.org/

                              [2] Preferably in a candid, openminded, personal email,
                              of course. Alternatively, please attach a photo in any non-M$
                              format and the discussion may be deferred till dinner or drinks,
                              depending on your GIMP skills (algorithm: for the same photo, if
                              you have no GIMP skills dinner is likelier). [A big ;-) goes here
                              in case someone thinks I mixed up mailing lists.]

                              This grew entirely off-topic, I am afraid. What's more, discussion of
                              pick-up techniques can conceivably be offensive to the female part of
                              the audience, so can we drop it, at least till the next round of beers
                              among us guys?

                              --
                              Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
                              =================================================================
                              "... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
                              the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]
                            • Shlomi Fish
                              Notice that I only used the Do you know the game Freecell for Windows? , Yes. , Well, I wrote a computerized solver for it? mostly on Technion crowd. I
                              Message 14 of 22 , Sep 21, 2002
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                                Notice that I only used the "Do you know the game Freecell for Windows?",
                                "Yes.", "Well, I wrote a computerized solver for it?" mostly on Technion
                                crowd. I have no idea how much it would work on a girl or a man that is
                                not very technologically inclined.

                                My point was that a solver for Freecell is something that everybody can
                                easily understand. Many projects out there require quite in-depth
                                knowledge in the way UNIX, Linux, TCP/IP or whatever works. But everybody
                                may know about Freecell and understand what a Freecell solver may do.

                                I'm terribly sorry if I offended anyone by using the "chick" word. I
                                should have used "girl" instead.

                                Sincerily yours,

                                Shlomi Fish

                                On 20 Sep 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:

                                > Shlomi Fish <shlomif@...> writes:
                                >
                                > > 1. Do you know this "Freecell" game in Windows?
                                > > 2. Possible responses - is no - I only know solitaira then I go to never
                                > > mind.
                                > > 3. Well I written (and worked on for quite a while) on a program that
                                > > solves it automatically.
                                >
                                > I am glad it works for Shlomi. I also hope the other party asks to
                                > explain the algorithms.
                                >
                                > Will one of the chicks[1], broads, gals (a.k.a. beautiful ladies) on
                                > this list explain to me[2] why this would work as a pick-up line? I
                                > never wrote a freecell solver, so I am afraid to use it lest I am
                                > exposed as a fraud quickly. Will "I know a guy who wrote a freecell
                                > solver" be effective? Will "I used to be Russia's checkers champion
                                > and I did not use a computer for that" be helpful?
                                >
                                > [1] GeekChicks: http://www.geekchicks.com/
                                > LinuxChix: http://linuxchix.org/
                                >
                                > [2] Preferably in a candid, openminded, personal email,
                                > of course. Alternatively, please attach a photo in any non-M$
                                > format and the discussion may be deferred till dinner or drinks,
                                > depending on your GIMP skills (algorithm: for the same photo, if
                                > you have no GIMP skills dinner is likelier). [A big ;-) goes here
                                > in case someone thinks I mixed up mailing lists.]
                                >
                                > This grew entirely off-topic, I am afraid. What's more, discussion of
                                > pick-up techniques can conceivably be offensive to the female part of
                                > the audience, so can we drop it, at least till the next round of beers
                                > among us guys?
                                >
                                > --
                                > Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
                                > =================================================================
                                > "... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
                                > the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >



                                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                                Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                                Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                                "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
                                "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
                              • Nadav Har'El
                                ... While using the word chick was not the most politically-correct thing you could have done, there are certain people here that need to remember that they
                                Message 15 of 22 , Sep 21, 2002
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                                  On Sat, Sep 21, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Ice-Breaker Disclaimer":
                                  > I'm terribly sorry if I offended anyone by using the "chick" word. I
                                  > should have used "girl" instead.

                                  While using the word "chick" was not the most politically-correct thing
                                  you could have done, there are certain people here that need to remember
                                  that they should not take personal offense by everything someone writes.
                                  These people should especially be careful of taking offense by someone
                                  writing in a language other than his or her first language, or when the
                                  reader himself or herself speaks that language as a second language.

                                  For examples why, take a look at the well known joke:
                                  http://www.thehumorarchives.com/humor/0000164.html
                                  A sign in a Japanese hotel said "You are invited to take advantage of the
                                  chambermaid". As the saying says, never attribute to malice what can be
                                  explained by stupidity.

                                  Incidentally, I was watching some British movie on TV this evening, and
                                  one of the things I like about British movies is paying attention to their
                                  language, diction and slang. British slang, or even language that you can
                                  find in dictionaries, is sometimes quite different from the American one
                                  that I am much more accustomed to. For example, the noun "fag" means
                                  completely different things to an American and a Brit (check out m-w.com,
                                  definition 3 is the British one, definition 4 is the American). One of
                                  words that the Brits in that movie seemed to use while Americans never,
                                  is using the word "bird" for a girl (take a look in m-w.com if you don't
                                  believe me). If bird means woman, it's obvious why chick could mean a young
                                  woman. m-w.com lists "chick" as slang, and indeed it is (as far as I can
                                  remember, it is mostly American slang). It is considered a "low" word,
                                  which you would say to your male buddies, not something you'd write on
                                  paper; Nevertheless, using this word is no reason for crucifixion.

                                  And to girls that are offended by the slang "chick", well, the British
                                  slang "bloke", for a man, doesn't sound that much better :) The word
                                  "hunk" describing a good-looking man doesn't sound that respectful either.

                                  By the way, looking in google with a few words I wrote above, I found some
                                  page trying to summarize the differences in slang between four different
                                  English-speaking countries: http://us2uk.tripod.com/slang.htm
                                  Some of the slangs there are wrong (or "euphemized"), however. Anyway,
                                  to anyone offended by the word "chick" for a girl, see what you think about
                                  the south-african alternative listed, "cherry". Check out m-w.com's
                                  definition 3b of cherry if you don't know what cherry really refers to...

                                  Cheerio,
                                  Nadav.

                                  --
                                  Nadav Har'El | Sunday, Sep 22 2002, 16 Tishri 5763
                                  nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                                  Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Microchips: what's left at the bottom of
                                  http://nadav.harel.org.il |the bag when it reaches you.
                                • Shlomi Fish
                                  ... For my own accusation, I can say I knew the word chick was a bit derogatory, and used it deliberately. But it was a bad idea in the first place. ...
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Sep 21, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:

                                    > On Sat, Sep 21, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Ice-Breaker Disclaimer":
                                    > > I'm terribly sorry if I offended anyone by using the "chick" word. I
                                    > > should have used "girl" instead.
                                    >
                                    > While using the word "chick" was not the most politically-correct thing
                                    > you could have done, there are certain people here that need to remember
                                    > that they should not take personal offense by everything someone writes.
                                    > These people should especially be careful of taking offense by someone
                                    > writing in a language other than his or her first language, or when the
                                    > reader himself or herself speaks that language as a second language.
                                    >

                                    For my own accusation, I can say I knew the word chick was a bit
                                    derogatory, and used it deliberately. But it was a bad idea in the first
                                    place.

                                    > For examples why, take a look at the well known joke:
                                    > http://www.thehumorarchives.com/humor/0000164.html
                                    > A sign in a Japanese hotel said "You are invited to take advantage of the
                                    > chambermaid". As the saying says, never attribute to malice what can be
                                    > explained by stupidity.
                                    >
                                    > Incidentally, I was watching some British movie on TV this evening, and
                                    > one of the things I like about British movies is paying attention to their
                                    > language, diction and slang. British slang, or even language that you can
                                    > find in dictionaries, is sometimes quite different from the American one
                                    > that I am much more accustomed to. For example, the noun "fag" means
                                    > completely different things to an American and a Brit (check out m-w.com,
                                    > definition 3 is the British one, definition 4 is the American). One of
                                    > words that the Brits in that movie seemed to use while Americans never,
                                    > is using the word "bird" for a girl (take a look in m-w.com if you don't
                                    > believe me). If bird means woman, it's obvious why chick could mean a young
                                    > woman. m-w.com lists "chick" as slang, and indeed it is (as far as I can
                                    > remember, it is mostly American slang). It is considered a "low" word,
                                    > which you would say to your male buddies, not something you'd write on
                                    > paper; Nevertheless, using this word is no reason for crucifixion.
                                    >
                                    > And to girls that are offended by the slang "chick", well, the British
                                    > slang "bloke", for a man, doesn't sound that much better :) The word
                                    > "hunk" describing a good-looking man doesn't sound that respectful either.
                                    >

                                    Actually, according to m-w, hunk means a well-built man who is usually
                                    good-looking. But I think it now applies to men of lesser physique who are
                                    just dashing.

                                    This make me wonder: does anybody of you considers himself good-looking? I
                                    think I'm moderately good looking but not much. I wonder if the most
                                    beautiful women I know (i.e Terry Farrel, Veronica Blume, Valeria Golino,
                                    Shania Twain, to name some of the international ones) look at themselves
                                    in the mirror and say "Man, I'm looking good!". It's a bit narcistic if
                                    you ask me.

                                    Regards,

                                    Shlomi Fish

                                    > By the way, looking in google with a few words I wrote above, I found some
                                    > page trying to summarize the differences in slang between four different
                                    > English-speaking countries: http://us2uk.tripod.com/slang.htm
                                    > Some of the slangs there are wrong (or "euphemized"), however. Anyway,
                                    > to anyone offended by the word "chick" for a girl, see what you think about
                                    > the south-african alternative listed, "cherry". Check out m-w.com's
                                    > definition 3b of cherry if you don't know what cherry really refers to...
                                    >
                                    > Cheerio,
                                    > Nadav.
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Nadav Har'El | Sunday, Sep 22 2002, 16 Tishri 5763
                                    > nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                                    > Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Microchips: what's left at the bottom of
                                    > http://nadav.harel.org.il |the bag when it reaches you.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > hackers-il-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >



                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Shlomi Fish shlomif@...
                                    Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
                                    Home E-mail: shlomif@...

                                    "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
                                    "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
                                  • Nadav Har'El
                                    This is getting more and more off-topic... Maybe we should open a new list, hackers-il-male-chauvinist-lingo? :) Just kidding! ... You are right, the word
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Sep 22, 2002
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                                      This is getting more and more off-topic... Maybe we should open a new
                                      list, hackers-il-male-chauvinist-lingo? :) Just kidding!

                                      On Sun, Sep 22, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Re: Ice-Breaker Disclaimer":
                                      > > And to girls that are offended by the slang "chick", well, the British
                                      > > slang "bloke", for a man, doesn't sound that much better :) The word
                                      > > "hunk" describing a good-looking man doesn't sound that respectful either.
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > Actually, according to m-w, hunk means a well-built man who is usually
                                      > good-looking. But I think it now applies to men of lesser physique who are
                                      > just dashing.

                                      You are right, the word "hunk" usually describes a guy with a good-looking
                                      muscular body, not necessarily a good-looking face (though preferably that
                                      should be the case too).

                                      > This make me wonder: does anybody of you considers himself good-looking? I
                                      > think I'm moderately good looking but not much. I wonder if the most
                                      > beautiful women I know (i.e Terry Farrel, Veronica Blume, Valeria Golino,
                                      > Shania Twain, to name some of the international ones) look at themselves
                                      > in the mirror and say "Man, I'm looking good!". It's a bit narcistic if
                                      > you ask me.

                                      On an optimistic day, I'll go to the mirror and say, "Man, I'm average
                                      looking!" :)

                                      This question can be asked about many attributes, not just good looks. For
                                      example, once in a while someone decides to annoy me by asking a question
                                      like "are you a genious"? To that I usually reply "no, I don't consider
                                      myself one", and after that an argument start, the other person trying to
                                      convince me that I am, and I try to explain why I think I am not.

                                      Good looks, smarts, weight, height and most other human attributes are
                                      continuous, meaning that it's not easy to say where exactly on the scale
                                      of good looks etc. you are, or to define how good do you have to look before
                                      you can actually call yourself "beautiful". A pretty girl might not admit
                                      to being beautiful but will more easily admit to being "prettier than
                                      average, but still there are many girls more prettier than me all around me".
                                      Similarly, I don't mind admitting being "smarter than average" (I have
                                      various scores, grades, and so on to back that claim up) but I wouldn't
                                      admit to being a genious.

                                      It's also hard, many times, to seperate your intrinsic attributes from
                                      external influences; For example a beautiful girl might say "I'm not
                                      beautiful, I'm just good with make-up and go to an expensive hair stylist";
                                      An educated person might say "I'm not a genious, I just had the good fortunes
                                      of attending a good school and have read good books".

                                      Mental illnesses which completely distort your ability to estimate your
                                      location in these continuous scales can be very dangerous. Girls (usually)
                                      with Anorexia know they are thin, but (because of their mental illness) do
                                      not admit that it is thin enough, and to the brink of death believe that
                                      they should be slightly thinner to be called "thin enough".

                                      If you want to run a survey on how good-looking people think they are,
                                      or at least how they try to represent themeselves to the outside world,
                                      take a look at any dating site. You might be surprised, most girls (I
                                      didn't check guys, for understandable reasons ;)) mark themselves as "good
                                      looking". It doesn't necessarily mean that is what they think about
                                      themselves, but it's what they pretend to be to the rest of the world.

                                      --
                                      Nadav Har'El | Sunday, Sep 22 2002, 16 Tishri 5763
                                      nyh@... |-----------------------------------------
                                      Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Linux is just like a wigwam: no Windows,
                                      http://nadav.harel.org.il |no Gates and an Apache inside.
                                    • Oleg Goldshmidt
                                      ... ObHack: Was it Dirac who observed that there must be an optimal distance from which a woman looks most attractive? Proof: attractiveness (visual) is
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Sep 22, 2002
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                                        "Nadav Har'El" <nyh@...> writes:

                                        > Good looks, smarts, weight, height and most other human attributes are
                                        > continuous, meaning that it's not easy to say where exactly on the scale
                                        > of good looks etc. you are, or to define how good do you have to look before
                                        > you can actually call yourself "beautiful".

                                        ObHack:

                                        Was it Dirac who observed that there must be an optimal distance from
                                        which a woman looks most attractive? Proof: attractiveness (visual) is
                                        non-negative (that's a generous assumption, but let's take a subset of
                                        women whose attractiveness *is* non-negative) and is a continuous
                                        function of distance, in two limiting cases - zero and infinity - it's
                                        0 because one cannot see anything.

                                        > If you want to run a survey on how good-looking people think they
                                        > are,

                                        In the 1920ies a group of prominent scientists, physicists and
                                        biologists (IIRC the well-known physicist max Delbruck and the famous
                                        geneticist Timofeev-Resovsky, both close to Bohr, were among them)
                                        amused themselves by conducting a quasi-scientific survey of female
                                        beauty in Europe. IIRC they gave each woman they pointed out to their
                                        friends as beautiful 4 points, each woman they did *not* point out to
                                        their friends 5 points, each average-looking woman 3 points, etc. They
                                        proceeded then to draw a map of Europe with the distribution plotted
                                        as contour lines. The maximum turned out to be in what later became
                                        Yugoslavia (Dubrovnik?) and also in Czechoslovakia. I don't know what
                                        kinds of bias they introduced into the sample, but these were serious
                                        guys.

                                        > You might be surprised, most girls (I didn't check guys, for
                                        > understandable reasons ;)) mark themselves as "good looking". It
                                        > doesn't necessarily mean that is what they think about themselves,
                                        > but it's what they pretend to be to the rest of the world.

                                        The reasons are quite clear...

                                        --
                                        Oleg Goldshmidt | ogoldshmidt@...
                                        =================================================================
                                        "... Of theoretical physics and programming, programming embodied
                                        the greater intellectual challenge." [E.W.Dijkstra, 1930 - 2002.]
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