Re: [hackers-il] Academic education is Israel
- On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> > actually, the unit i was in was really superb in all of these respects,allow me to clarify: my unit was fantastic in the _professional_ aspect,
> > and i still chose to leave once my three years were up. not because of
> > my unit, which was incredible (and an excellent preamble to a high
> > tech career), but because it was still a part of the army and
> > occasionally you were reminded of that in the most unpleasant ways
> > you can imagine.
> Read what you write again: read the first line of the above paragraph, and then
> the last two lines. Don't you see a contradiction? Many people tell me
but it was still a a part of the army. professionaly it was wonderful,
but it was still a part of the army and as such, sometimes things
i agree with you on general army suckiness. i disagree with you on the
army's _professional_ suckiness. does that clear up the
> You couldn't be more wrong :) Do you know me as someone who complains onlyi guess i shouldn't have assumed. your email came accross with the sort
> about wrongs done to him? Do you think I also wrote that essay about how free
> software can help poor people because I am a poor person?
of tone i associate with strong _personal_ feeelings. i'm glad you
didnt suffer too much :)
> > the army, did the things i love with people who shared my passion forthe army, or rather my superiors, would have loved for me to stay (and
> > writing code, and accumulated lots of experience. all this, without
> > signing for one extra minute of keva. i dont doubt many people share
> This is how it should be. And if you really loved it, you could have stayed
> there after the 3 years were over (of course, not everyone would stay but
> if only 25% stayed, it would be enough and they didn't have to force everyone
> to stay 3 years).
indeed, tried to tempt me in many ways) but i was set on starting the
technion as soon as possible. if i was "forced" to stay, it wouldn't
have hurt me one bit.
> > your misgivings about the army, but neither do i doubt many peolpe sharethey would - if they could get in in the first place. how many companies
> > my kind of story. in recent newspaper articles, my unit was called "the
> > hightech greenhouse of israel". how much of that per-capita income you talk about
> > is coming from people who, once they leave the army use _the knowledge
> > they learned in the army_ to make many millions of dollars? (checkpoint
> > comes to mind here...)
> Wouldn't they get the same knoweldge by working 3 years in the civilian
> industry? They would.
do you know that train _completely unexperienced and unproven_ people
and give them this kind of knowledge?
> Why are you bringing up what the army wants all the time? The army willbecause i agree with you that the army should not be all powerfull and
omnipotent, should not take too many resources from society. however,
the only way for the army to do that is to use whatever resources it
does have in the most effective way. and unfortunately, you, and i, and
every other 18 year old are _resources_ for the army, to be used in the
most effective possible way.
you cannot give with one hand and deny with the other. we agree that the
army is a necessity, do we not? we agree that it should be as efficient
as possible in its usage of resources, do we not, in order to be the
least burden for society? well, for the army, just like for any other
company, a person _is_ a resource, to be used as effectively is
possible. some army units understand nowdays that sometimes that means
giving their people good conditions and a good salary and treating them
like human beings. one day, i hope, the entire army will realise this
and then they wont need to coerce someone into signing 'keva', since
they'll be able to compete fair and square for that person. until that
happens, the army will use whatever advantage it has. i am NOT saying it
is right, but i am saying its justified, _from the army's point of
> Sorry about all this ranting ;) Nothing is against you Muli, of course - I'mnothing personal here either, nadav :)
> just clearing some anger :) I think we should open a new list,
> ranting-and-bitching-il for this kind of postings...
but can we get back to hacking now?
linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead
- On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 03:47:14PM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> Why are you bringing up what the army wants all the time? The army willActually, the army does not want to receive 90% of the budget, because
> prefer people to enlist for 10 years. I will prefer to pay them 100 shekels
> a month, instead of 300, and to call the first 9 years "sherut chova" and
> only the last year "keva". It will prefer people to sleep in tents rather
> than build places to sleep. It will prefer to get 90% of the national budget,
> and not anything less. It will prefer people to do 180 days of miluim every
that would harm economical growth and would reduce the overall budget in
the future. The army has an "econimical planning" unit that does the
necessary calculations and estimation to decide what is the optimum amount
to request, that would leave the army with as much money as possible both
in the present and future.
Of course, that supports your point further.
- --- In hackers-il@y..., Dan Kenigsberg <danken@c...> wrote:
> > I'm currently finishing 11th grade and since I want to get to thedetermining what
> > atuda
> WHY? Maybe you should think again. Remember - not only are you
> you are going to do, but also what a 27 years old man is going todo in the next
> decade. Are you sure he will want to wear green outfit? Or gothrough a
> bureaucratic ordeal when he wants to go abroad, or see a doctor?And see his
> friends having fun in south America while he's doing Katzin Toran?Would he
> think of you kindly?your other
> I'm not saying not to consider it, or apply for it. But check out
> options before you commit.You do have a point here.
I still have a few months to decide if I want to do it, and I'll re-
- --- In hackers-il@y..., mulix <mulix@a...> wrote:
> the technion does not have such a formal requirement, as far as iknow,
> but since 5 point math get a double bonus (they count as 10 points)CS, is
> plus a 30% (if i remember correctly) modifier, getting in without 5
> points can be almost impossible. the competition, especially for
> fierce :(I am in 5 points... I had no other choice since I wanted to take
> linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead
Physics and CS.