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GJG Members Newsletter Re: Am I crazy

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  • Dan
    ... Andreas ... Don t need to find out. I have (I know Dennis posted and I haven t read it yet so this is fun) the first Collins 14 fret D Hole, a wonderful
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 31, 2004
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      --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "stublag"
      <stuartblagden@s...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <tooth1955@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > > I'm not sure what an AJL is.
      > > Dan
      >
      > Dan
      > Find out!--they're amazing Finnish made guitars as played by
      Andreas
      > Oberg
      > THEY have bite and the 'Selmer' warmth also required.
      > Stu

      Don't need to find out. I have (I know Dennis posted and I haven't
      read it yet so this is fun) the first Collins 14 fret D Hole, a
      wonderful guitar. So it's all moot. I'm just saying, Stu, that
      you're making generalizations about a certain guitar, and they do
      cast some negative karma on someone who does alot for this music.
    • Breandán Ó Ruaidh
      All very well to suggest a try before you buy policy, but in the gypsy guitar world, this is not always viable. I personally had to trawl the internet and
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 1, 2005
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        All very well to suggest a 'try before you buy' policy, but in the
        gypsy guitar world, this is not always viable. I personally had to
        trawl the internet and listen a lot to what this group had to say about
        various guitars, but ultimately I had to make my own decision based on
        a complex equation involving the proximity of the builder, value for
        money, whether I trusted the builder knew what he was talking about
        etc., etc. Either my research or my luck paid off, but I love my new
        Hodson. It doesn't have quite the same raucous bark as Ian Date's
        Crocker but I think it's tone is possibly more cultured and complex. My
        girlfriend hasn't liked any of my guitars to date but she adores this
        one in both sound and appearance (so if you want a great gypsy style
        guitar AND to keep your wife, this may be the road to go...). David
        (Hodson) also tells me that it will take at least 6 months of solid
        playing before this guitar is played in (though he also said it also
        has a lot to do with getting used to your new guitar). So nice as it
        is, this guitar will sound even better in time.

        "...What are you doing with all those hours?"

        "I'm breaking in my new guitar!"

        "Oh, that's much more important than the housework I was gonna have you
        do..."

        I wonder do such conversations ever occur?

        Well, that's all folks,

        Breandán.

        On 1 Jan 2005, at 05:55, zentraedi1 wrote:

        >
        > No, you're not crazy.  The lesson is: before you buy a guitar, play
        > it.  For example, I have owned a Dell'Arte "Sweet Chorus" (the
        > grande bouche economy model) for about four years.  It's always been
        > loud and had great tone in most dynamic ranges.  Another guitarist I
        > know recently bought the Dell'Arte Jimmy Rosenberg model (high-end
        > petite bouche), and in comparison to my Dell'Arte, his sounds weak
        > and really must be "thrashed" to get any appreciable volume.  In
        > other words, I may have "lucked out" on my cheaper Dell'Arte. 
        >
        > Volume should not be the primary criterion for judging a good
        > guitar, however.  I also got the chance last week to play another
        > friend's Saga 250, which I found tremendously loud but very lacking
        > in tone; it had a metallic bite but no sweetness at all.
        >
        > In short, the brand doesn't necessarily guarantee a certain sound. 
        > Consider what you want, go play some guitars, and then look in your
        > wallet.  (NB: If you don't want to fall to the floor crying, skip
        > that last step.)
        >
        > Lauren Oliver
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > G Y P S Y J A Z Z G U I T A R
        > http://www.gypsyjazzguitar.com
        > mailto:webmaster@...
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      • Michael Arciero
        Ahh... The all-important girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband/partner question. One must carefully consider this, as it can have far-reaching and often
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 1, 2005
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          Ahh... The all-important girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband/partner
          question. One must carefully consider this, as it can have
          far-reaching and often unanticipated domestic implications. I
          actually defer to my girlfriend quite often on these matters, as she
          seems to have a very acute perception in general and a great
          appreciation for music in particular. I really think she would like my
          latest guitar, if I could only find the right time to tell her about it...

          Happy New Year!

          Mike A


          --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, Breandán Ó Ruaidh
          <breandan04@y...> wrote:
          > My
          > girlfriend hasn't liked any of my guitars to date but she adores this
          > one in both sound and appearance (so if you want a great gypsy style
          > guitar AND to keep your wife, this may be the road to go...).

          >
          > Breandán.
          >
        • Norman Plankey
          I m not sure if I can get my S.O. to like this guitar: any suggestions??? http://www.brianeastwoodguitars.co.uk/page4.html Norman CT/USA PS: Happy New Year
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 1, 2005
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            I'm not sure if I can get my S.O. to like this guitar: any
            suggestions???
            http://www.brianeastwoodguitars.co.uk/page4.html

            Norman CT/USA

            PS: Happy New Year

            --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Arciero"
            <mikearci@y...> wrote:
            >
            > latest guitar, if I could only find the right time to tell her
            >about it...
            >
            > Happy New Year!
            >
            > Mike A
            >
            >
            > --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, Breandán Ó Ruaidh
            > <breandan04@y...> wrote:
            > > My
            > > girlfriend hasn't liked any of my guitars to date but she adores
            >this
            > > one in both sound and appearance (so if you want a great gypsy
            >style
            > > guitar AND to keep your wife, this may be the road to go...).
            >
            > >
            > > Breandán.
            > >
          • dennis1043
            Dan s collins is an absolute gem, if michael collins keeps it up, he s definitely gonna be one of the top luthiers for these guitars, especially in north
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 2, 2005
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              Dan's collins is an absolute gem, if michael collins keeps it up,
              he's definitely gonna be one of the top luthiers for these guitars,
              especially in north america where the value of the american/canadian
              dollar just can't compete with the brutal euro and unforgiving
              british pound.

              i was so impressed with his guitars, i ordered one right away, if
              all goes according to plan i'll have it next month!

              D

              --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <tooth1955@y...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "stublag"
              > <stuartblagden@s...> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <tooth1955@y...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > > I'm not sure what an AJL is.
              > > > Dan
              > >
              > > Dan
              > > Find out!--they're amazing Finnish made guitars as played by
              > Andreas
              > > Oberg
              > > THEY have bite and the 'Selmer' warmth also required.
              > > Stu
              >
              > Don't need to find out. I have (I know Dennis posted and I haven't
              > read it yet so this is fun) the first Collins 14 fret D Hole, a
              > wonderful guitar. So it's all moot. I'm just saying, Stu, that
              > you're making generalizations about a certain guitar, and they do
              > cast some negative karma on someone who does alot for this music.
            • Michael Arciero
              I d like to say something regarding the sound and quality of Dell Arte in light of Stu s comments. The GJ guitar market may be growing, but it s still a niche
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 3, 2005
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                I'd like to say something regarding the sound and quality of
                Dell'Arte in light of Stu's comments. The GJ guitar market may be
                growing, but it's still a niche market and I think that statements we
                make here can have an impact, negative or positive.

                I absolutely loved my first Dell'Arte Hommage, so much so that I
                bought a second one that I thought I liked a little better after Alain
                discounted the price from the already discounted "festival price" at
                DFNE. My intention was to sell one of them but have not been able to
                decide. (Shepp says one sounds like a Jacque Favino and the other like
                Jean Pierre (?) Favino.) Shepp also spoke in exalted tones about the
                one 503 that he had played.

                So I do have a personal interest here, since I do plan to be selling
                one of these soon. In fact, I admit that that is one reason for my
                posting. On the other hand, I still plan to keep one of the Hommage
                despite taking delivery of a Collins oval hole last month. Yes, the
                Collins is as great as everyone says, but the sound is so totally
                different between these two guitars. The Hommage is not what you would
                call "traditional" sounding in the strict sense; it was not designed
                to be. It is a big, loud, full sound, with lots of brightness. Alain
                described it to me as a "more complete guitar" compared to the 503
                model. But if you are looking for a "traditional" sound (maybe this is
                what Angelo meant by "older"), for which the Dupont MD 50 is kind of a
                standard, the Hommage might not be it. The Collins indeed has this,
                to my ears, plus melt-in-your-mouth sweetness of tone.
                I could go on about which guitar has more/nicer midrange, which is
                "stronger" (a word Ritary used when I asked him about a guitar, or
                rather its lack thereof-he actually does know some English, I found
                out.), etc....

                Stu, I respect your opinion, but perhaps you are measuring against
                this yardstick (of traditional sound)? Also, since the Hommage and the
                503 are relatively new models, maybe you have not tried these?

                Mike A
              • stublag
                ... we ... Alain ... to ... like ... Sorry--but that s an absurd comment- I ve played both Jacques(Robin Nolans -ex Stochelo s on the Django legacy etc) and
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 3, 2005
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                  --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Arciero"
                  <mikearci@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'd like to say something regarding the sound and quality of
                  > Dell'Arte in light of Stu's comments. The GJ guitar market may be
                  > growing, but it's still a niche market and I think that statements
                  we
                  > make here can have an impact, negative or positive.
                  >
                  > I absolutely loved my first Dell'Arte Hommage, so much so that I
                  > bought a second one that I thought I liked a little better after
                  Alain
                  > discounted the price from the already discounted "festival price" at
                  > DFNE. My intention was to sell one of them but have not been able
                  to
                  > decide. (Shepp says one sounds like a Jacque Favino and the other
                  like
                  > Jean Pierre (?) Favino


                  Sorry--but that's an absurd comment- I've played both Jacques(Robin
                  Nolans -ex Stochelo's on the Django legacy etc) and others-- and JP
                  Favino's( i owned Kamlo Barres lovely D hole)
                  Both Favino's make GREAT guitars!--but to say you an differenciate
                  individual chartacteristics of both Favino's is an affected fallacy
                  imho


                  > So I do have a personal interest here, since I do plan to be selling
                  > one of these soon. In fact, I admit that that is one reason for my
                  > posting. On the other hand, I still plan to keep one of the Hommage
                  > despite taking delivery of a Collins oval hole last month. Yes, the
                  > Collins is as great as everyone says, but the sound is so totally
                  > different between these two guitars. The Hommage is not what you
                  >would
                  > call "traditional" sounding in the strict sense;



                  Well--maybe i'm conservative( note the small 'c')
                  I like the 'traditional' sound i admit--as the great composer Arvo
                  Part says "All the prayers have already been written"
                  Some things you can't improve on (Hammond 'B'3 sound--Marshall stack
                  Vox Ac30 etc)--in some ways its the imperfections of those sounds
                  that make them all special

                  I can't think of a gtr less in need of innovation than the Selmer
                  oval hole sound sound--( i played my friend Ray Gallo's recently and
                  it sounded like my Olivier Marin--only better!)



                  > what Angelo meant by "older"), for which the Dupont MD 50 is kind
                  > Stu, I respect your opinion, but perhaps you are measuring against
                  > this yardstick (of traditional sound)? Also, since the Hommage and
                  >the
                  > 503 are relatively new models, maybe you have not tried these?
                  >
                  > Mike A


                  I haven't tried the more recent DellArte models
                  I HAVE tried at least eleven or twelve sent to my shop==none of them
                  matched my Favino or Marin or a good
                  Saga,Crocker,Moustache,Gallato,Kyle,Dupont,Hodson,De Hoost,LeVoi or
                  Aylward or Nonis--i've tried all those btw at the Le Quecummbar
                  sessions
                  There's many knowledgable people here who agree of course but
                  would'nt dare post for 'political' reasons...
                  i just think that there should be room for honesty in this forum if
                  its to mean anything
                  IMHO
                  Stu
                • Djon
                  Angelo Debarre uses Sagas when traveling because they are bull-goose rugged, his famous quotation in the French guitar mag makes that clear. Mine sounds
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 3, 2005
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                    Angelo Debarre uses Sagas when traveling because they are bull-goose
                    rugged, his famous quotation in the French guitar mag makes that clear.

                    Mine sounds gypsy-credible, feels good (after a lot of
                    tinkering)...it's loud as the hounds of hell, but not in the tone
                    league as my Dupont.

                    The 5 hr Bireli & Friends DVD features Angelo playing a Dell Arte
                    (beautiful even with that gross DA headstock inlay)... looks like
                    koa, sounds exquisite (less bass but better midtones than Bireli's
                    Hahl... maybe thats pickups).



                    > You get to know what a good guitar sounds like;Matcho Winterstein and
                    > DeBarre both liked Saga's btw
                    > ...but what do they know...:-)
                    > Stu
                  • barwarren@aol.com
                    In a message dated 1/3/05 10:08:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... MIKE, I wanted to chime in sooner, but I was doing a road gig for New Year s. As far as Stu s
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 3, 2005
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                      In a message dated 1/3/05 10:08:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, mikearci@... writes:


                      Stu, I respect your opinion, but perhaps you are measuring against
                      this yardstick (of traditional sound)? Also, since the Hommage and the
                      503 are relatively new models, maybe you have not tried these?   



                          MIKE,

                            I wanted to chime in sooner, but I was doing a road gig for New Year's.
                            As far as Stu's original post;  as  most of us are saying there are many variables in taste and guitars. I have a DuPont that I really like, and I've played other DuPonts that I thought were great, and some that didn't knock me out. Alain makes a wide range of styles of guitars, and there's a lot of variation between guitars of the same model of course. I will be ordering a Collins, they just really knock me out,
                      I've played Shepp's  Dell'artes, they are great. Robin Nolen's Dell'arte, which I think is a custom made Favino style, sounds and plays great, [although his guitar's  action,
                        like Shepp's is just too damned high for me!] Alain, has been an unbelievable supporter of the music, and a nicer guy you'll never meet.  BTW,  I'd add that there are a wide range of players out there, and their guitar's are as diverse as their personalities. As far as Sagas, I have an older D-500 that is nothing special, but I've played newer models, including Jorgenson's guitar that were very good. I'd advise everyone to check out as many guitars by different builders as much as possible. 
                         Just my 2 cents,
                           B 
                       
                    • Michael Arciero
                      ... Well, absurd is a strong word. While it may be hard to attribute specific differences to the fact that Jacque rather than JP made a particular guitar, (I
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 3, 2005
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                        --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "stublag" <stuartblagden@s...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Arciero"
                        > <mikearci@y...> wrote:
                        > >

                        > > decide. (Shepp says one sounds like a Jacque Favino and the other
                        > like
                        > > Jean Pierre (?) Favino
                        >
                        >
                        > Sorry--but that's an absurd comment- I've played both Jacques(Robin
                        > Nolans -ex Stochelo's on the Django legacy etc) and others-- and JP
                        > Favino's( i owned Kamlo Barres lovely D hole)
                        > Both Favino's make GREAT guitars!--but to say you an differenciate
                        > individual chartacteristics of both Favino's is an affected fallacy
                        > imho
                        >


                        Well, "absurd" is a strong word. While it may be hard to attribute
                        specific differences to the fact that Jacque rather than JP made a
                        particular guitar, (I may have been too quick to publicly attribute
                        comments to Shepp that were said off the cuff, taken out of context,
                        not clarified, etc.-My public apologies to you Shepp.) it's certainly
                        not unreasonable or absurd to think that two instruments made by two
                        different pairs of human hands might sound different, especially when
                        father and son produced guitars at different times. This would
                        include, but is not limited to, factors such as supply of tonewoods,
                        etc.

                        Moreover, to call such statements an "affectation", as you do, is to
                        question the sincerity of someone (that you presumably have never
                        met) in making the statements.

                        Mike A
                      • pappylapompe
                        Greetings everybody, I haven t posted anything in a while but I feel I need to address this one. Steven I am sorry to hear about your troubles with this
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 3, 2005
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                          Greetings everybody,

                          I haven't posted anything in a while but I feel I need to address
                          this one.
                          Steven I am sorry to hear about your troubles with this particular
                          guitar. If you can you should call me at 619 596 7739 and we'll
                          sort it out.
                          I'll have you ship the guitar back to us at our expenses in order
                          for me to check out what is wrong with it. If this guitar is
                          hopeless I'll ship you another one, or another model or whatever.
                          There are many people on this list that can attest that I'll stand
                          on my head to make you happy to own a Dell'Arte.

                          To address some of Stu comments, it is true that Angelo likes the
                          sound of old guitars (don't we all?)as a proof, the Saga that he
                          keeps in the trunk of his car was made in Japan in the early 80's
                          and has nothing to do with the new Saga Gitane made in China. The
                          companies are different too!
                          On the other hand, Angelo has recorded five cd's with a Dell'Arte
                          and played many gigs and festivals with one as well. Jimmy Rosenberg
                          has recorded 2 cd's with a Dell'Arte and played many gigs and
                          festivals before his retirement. Boulou and Elios Ferre have
                          recorded 2 cd's and played many concerts, festivals, tv shows etc
                          with their Dell'Arte. Titi Demeter and Stevie Demeter have recorded
                          their last album with Dell'Arte guitars and have played around Paris
                          for the last four years with their guitars. Dorado's next cd is
                          recorded with a Dell'Arte (to be released in Spring) and both Samson
                          Schmitt and Mayo Hubert are playing Dell'Arte guitars. So are
                          Tchavolo Hassan and Chiquito Lambert that play with Angelo.
                          But what all these people know!
                          Regarding Jacques Favino's guitar versus Jean Pierre's ...
                          I also have played that J.P Favino that Robin owns. It is a great
                          guitar but has nothing to do with the jacques Favino that I own in
                          regard to the sound, bracing and even the scale that father and son
                          used.
                          On a subject closer to my heart, you are close but no cigar!
                          Dell'Arte was never about quantity, at our peak we were producing 4
                          high quality guitars a week. That's about half of Maurice Dupont
                          production. In order to produce instruments of even a better quality
                          we have reduced our production to 3 instruments per week. That was
                          about the production of Jacques Favino's shop at its best.
                          Again, there are many people on this list that can attest to the
                          quality (I am talking about workmanship and tone here)of the
                          instruments that we have produced the last twelve months.

                          My best regards to everybody on the list and a Happy New Year,

                          Alain Cola
                          Dell'Arte Instruments
                        • Steve Slivka
                          Alain, Let me first apologize to you. This thread kind of got off the rails into a realm I certainly never intended. I definitely never intended for this to
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 3, 2005
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                            Alain,

                            Let me first apologize to you.

                            This thread kind of got off the rails into a realm I certainly never
                            intended.

                            I definitely never intended for this to be about your guitars as a
                            brand vs. another.

                            It was a question about one particular guitar that my wife had bought
                            unseen vs. another particular guitar i own.

                            What people have overwhelmingly wrote me to say,( which is in my last
                            post) is that you stand by your product, and go to great

                            lengths when a problem arises.

                            I am certainly no expert in GJ guitars, I asked for advice

                            because I truly didn't know if I was right or not.

                            I will give you a call this week and have no worries that it will work
                            out.


                            Let's all talk about music now.


                            Steve Slivka






                            On Jan 3, 2005, at 7:51 PM, pappylapompe wrote:

                            >
                            > Greetings everybody,
                            >
                            > I haven't posted anything in a while but I feel I need to address
                            > this one.
                            > Steven I am sorry to hear about your troubles with this particular
                            > guitar.  If you can you should call me at 619 596 7739 and we'll
                            > sort it out.
                            > I'll have you ship the guitar back to us at our expenses in order
                            > for me to check out what is wrong with it.  If this guitar is
                            > hopeless I'll ship you another one, or another model or whatever.
                            > There are many people on this list that can attest that I'll stand
                            > on my head to make you happy to own a Dell'Arte.
                            >
                            > To address  some of Stu comments, it is true that Angelo likes the
                            > sound of old guitars (don't we all?)as a proof, the Saga that he
                            > keeps in the trunk of his car was made in Japan in the early 80's
                            > and has nothing to do with the new Saga Gitane made in China.  The
                            > companies are different too!
                            > On the other hand, Angelo has recorded five cd's with a Dell'Arte
                            > and played many gigs and festivals with one as well. Jimmy Rosenberg
                            > has recorded 2 cd's with a Dell'Arte and played many gigs and
                            > festivals before his retirement.  Boulou and Elios Ferre have
                            > recorded 2 cd's and played many concerts, festivals, tv shows etc
                            > with their Dell'Arte.  Titi Demeter and Stevie Demeter have recorded
                            > their last album with Dell'Arte guitars and have played around Paris
                            > for the last four years with their guitars. Dorado's next cd is
                            > recorded with a Dell'Arte (to be released in Spring) and both Samson
                            > Schmitt and Mayo Hubert are playing Dell'Arte guitars. So are
                            > Tchavolo Hassan and Chiquito Lambert that play with Angelo.
                            > But what all these people know!
                            > Regarding Jacques Favino's guitar versus Jean Pierre's ...
                            > I also have played that J.P Favino that Robin owns. It is a great
                            > guitar but has nothing to do with the jacques Favino that I own in
                            > regard to the sound, bracing and even the scale that father and son
                            > used.
                            > On a subject closer to my heart, you are close but no cigar!
                            > Dell'Arte was never about quantity, at our peak we were  producing 4
                            > high quality guitars a week. That's about half of Maurice Dupont
                            > production. In order to produce instruments of even a better quality
                            > we have reduced our production to 3 instruments per week.  That was
                            > about the production of Jacques Favino's shop at its best.
                            > Again, there are many people on this list that can attest to the
                            > quality (I am talking about workmanship and tone here)of the
                            > instruments that we have produced the last twelve months.
                            >
                            > My best regards to everybody on the list and a Happy New Year,
                            >
                            > Alain Cola
                            > Dell'Arte Instruments
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > G Y P S Y J A Z Z G U I T A R
                            > http://www.gypsyjazzguitar.com
                            > mailto:webmaster@...
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gypsyjazzguitar
                            > mailto:gypsyjazzguitar@yahoogroups.com
                            > http://www.cafedjango.com
                            > mailto:subcribe@...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            Steve Slivka
                            Composer
                            P:708.860.0122
                            E:sslivka@...
                          • Charlie Ayers
                            Great to hear from you Alain! I can personally attest to Alain/Dell Arte s incredible customer service; they demonstrate a desire to make their customers happy
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 4, 2005
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                              Great to hear from you Alain!

                              I can personally attest to Alain/Dell'Arte's incredible customer
                              service; they demonstrate a desire to make their customers happy that
                              is unparalleled........


                              Charlie
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