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Re: [guyanese_genealogy] New member's posting

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  • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
    Hello Joanne Indentureship lasted between 1834 and 1917 and was responsible for the arrival of the Ancestors of most of today s population. The British Library
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 21, 2006
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      Hello Joanne
       
      Indentureship lasted between 1834 and 1917 and was responsible for the arrival of the Ancestors of most of today's population.
       
      The British Library in Colindale, North London has the biggest Collection of British Newspapers covering all parts of the United Kingdom.
       
      I am not too sure how they recruited the Indentured Servants in Europe, in India and China they approached people around Bazaars, Train Stations and Religious sites that drew large crowds and often rounded up a few people walking about to make up the numbers, in some cases they were kidnapped against their will !
       
      In Europe the approach may have been different and they may have advertised in Newspapers or it could have been a similiar set up and they may have approached people at large gatherings and possibly in Ale Houses.
       
      In some cases it could have been that the Planters had some Labourers working for them in England or put the word out to acquaintances that they were looking for some Men and then decided to Ship them over.
       
      In 1835 small groups of German and English Farmers were recruited.
       
      In 1836, 44 Irish and 47 English Labourers landed in Guyana and in 1837 43 Scottish Labourers arrived from Glasgow.
       
      In 1839 208 Maltese and 121 more Germans were added to the population.
       
      Many of these Labourers did not adapt well to the climate and they suffered from a high mortality rate.
       
      These were in far smaller numbers than those from India so they most likely arrived on normal Passenger Ships rather than the "Coolie" Ships that brought Indentured Labour from India, China and Madeira.
       
      There may be details of departing Ships in the London Gazettes and of their arrival in the Guyana Government Gazettes.
       
      There was a lot of Sea traffic back then but Records were kept of all departures but may be in various places.
       
      The main Port was Liverpool, Passengers from Germany and Malta would have also made their way to Liverpool for Guyana.
       
      It is also possible that related Records or Newspaper reports are kept in Merseyside but i am uncertain.
       
      Have a look at :
       
       
      which is the Liverpool Archives Website, the Archives have a lot of material related to Shipping.
       
      I hope this helps your research.
       
      Regards
       
      Jon

      Joanne Schmidt <jcsmitty1212@...> wrote:
      Thanks, Jon. Indentured service is an interesting suggestion.
       
      I have to wonder if there are still any London-area newspapers from that time in the archives that might have articles on this situation. Were there ads for families to settle there and work on the plantations for a certain contracted time in return for some settlement? The practically neat ten-year residence would fit that scenario.
       
      Would there be lists of families leaving for Guyana in the London newspaper?
       
      It's certainly worth some research.
       
      Thanks again for the suggestion.
       
      Joanne
       


      "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
      Hello Joanne
       
      The most possible thing i can think off is to do with Indenture.
       
      After Slavery was abolished in 1834 the British introduced the Indenture System (Slavery with a new Title) where Thousands of people mostly from Asia but also from Europe came to Labour on the Sugar Plantations.
       
      Initially the first Indentured Servants came from Europe - mainly Madeira (Portugal) but also from Ireland, Scotland, Germany, Malta and elsewhere but they were not used to the harsh conditions and had all mostly died by 1838.
       
      Then the first batches of East Indians were brought to the Caribbean and were to become the first of over half a Million brought to the Region (nearly 240,000 to Guyana) followed by smaller groups of Chinese and more Madeirans.
       
      I believe it is most likely that William Henry Turner may have worked as a Overseer on a Plantation or in a similiar capacity or may have even been Indentured himself.
       
      Indenture would have been harsh so not enticing but work as a Overseer would have been appealing.
       
      Regards
       
      Jon 

      Joanne Schmidt <jcsmitty1212@...> wrote:
      Hi, Everybody:
       
      One nice thing I've discovered while researching my family tree is that when you have an ancestor born in Guyana, he or she will stand out from the rest among tons of data.
       
      I knew from family stories that my great-grandfather, William Henry Turner, was born in Demerrarra, but I had no idea until recently that he also had three siblings born there as well. According to the stories, William's mother was an opera singer on tour in South America when he was born, but my research makes that seem very unlikely.
       
      Here's my data: my g-great grandfather, William Henry Turner, married Sarah Hopkins in London, England in 1839. They must have moved to Demerrarra not long after the wedding. The first-born child, Sarah H., was born in 1941; William H. was born in 1843; Anna M. in 1846, and Allice in 1849. After almost a decade in Guyana, the family emigrated to the United States and settled in New York City. The 1850 census shows them living in New York's Ward 13, with the birthplace of all four children clearly listed as Demerrarra.
       
      Finding that U.S. census data was very important because it not only revealed when the family came to the U.S., but indicated siblings and time spans. I struck out before that trying to find any records from Demerrara itself.
       
      Now I'm curious what motivated the newlywed couple to move to Guyana from England in the first place. I found no record of any opera houses there, but I did find that the British were building a railroad. The New York census only lists my ggrandfather as a "wood picker," so chances are he was a laborer of some kind in Guyana.
       
      However, I'd love to hear from anyone not only about genealogy in Guyana, but what was going on there around 1840 that would attract newlyweds to settle there. Any ideas?
       
      I'm glad to be a part of this board. I hope it proves fruitful for everybody.
       
      Joanne S.
       
       
       
       

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    • Joanne Schmidt
      Thanks for the lead, Jon. I d like to search through the newspapers of the day after my gggrandfather married in 1839 to see when the Turners left and if any
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 21, 2006
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        Thanks for the lead, Jon. I'd like to search through the newspapers of the day after my gggrandfather married in 1839 to see when the Turners left and if any mention was made either in the Westminster, London papers of them leaving, or the papers in Demerarra announcing their arrival. Slight chance, I know, but worth exploring.
         
        My ggrandfather fought in the American Civil War, but I don't know on what side--although I suspect, since he lived in New York, that it would have been for the Union. It would be an interesting thing to find out because of the family's background and exposure to slavery in Guyana--or at least the indentured slavery that followed the so-called end of slavery.
         
        Joanne

        "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
        Hello Joanne
         
        Indentureship lasted between 1834 and 1917 and was responsible for the arrival of the Ancestors of most of today's population.
         
        The British Library in Colindale, North London has the biggest Collection of British Newspapers covering all parts of the United Kingdom.
         
        I am not too sure how they recruited the Indentured Servants in Europe, in India and China they approached people around Bazaars, Train Stations and Religious sites that drew large crowds and often rounded up a few people walking about to make up the numbers, in some cases they were kidnapped against their will !
         
        In Europe the approach may have been different and they may have advertised in Newspapers or it could have been a similiar set up and they may have approached people at large gatherings and possibly in Ale Houses.
         
        In some cases it could have been that the Planters had some Labourers working for them in England or put the word out to acquaintances that they were looking for some Men and then decided to Ship them over.
         
        In 1835 small groups of German and English Farmers were recruited.
         
        In 1836, 44 Irish and 47 English Labourers landed in Guyana and in 1837 43 Scottish Labourers arrived from Glasgow.
         
        In 1839 208 Maltese and 121 more Germans were added to the population.
         
        Many of these Labourers did not adapt well to the climate and they suffered from a high mortality rate.
         
        These were in far smaller numbers than those from India so they most likely arrived on normal Passenger Ships rather than the "Coolie" Ships that brought Indentured Labour from India, China and Madeira.
         
        There may be details of departing Ships in the London Gazettes and of their arrival in the Guyana Government Gazettes.
         
        There was a lot of Sea traffic back then but Records were kept of all departures but may be in various places.
         
        The main Port was Liverpool, Passengers from Germany and Malta would have also made their way to Liverpool for Guyana.
         
        It is also possible that related Records or Newspaper reports are kept in Merseyside but i am uncertain.
         
        Have a look at :
         
         
        which is the Liverpool Archives Website, the Archives have a lot of material related to Shipping.
         
        I hope this helps your research.
         
        Regards
         
        Jon

        Joanne Schmidt <jcsmitty1212@...> wrote:
        Thanks, Jon. Indentured service is an interesting suggestion.
         
        I have to wonder if there are still any London-area newspapers from that time in the archives that might have articles on this situation. Were there ads for families to settle there and work on the plantations for a certain contracted time in return for some settlement? The practically neat ten-year residence would fit that scenario.
         
        Would there be lists of families leaving for Guyana in the London newspaper?
         
        It's certainly worth some research.
         
        Thanks again for the suggestion.
         
        Joanne
         


        "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
        Hello Joanne
         
        The most possible thing i can think off is to do with Indenture.
         
        After Slavery was abolished in 1834 the British introduced the Indenture System (Slavery with a new Title) where Thousands of people mostly from Asia but also from Europe came to Labour on the Sugar Plantations.
         
        Initially the first Indentured Servants came from Europe - mainly Madeira (Portugal) but also from Ireland, Scotland, Germany, Malta and elsewhere but they were not used to the harsh conditions and had all mostly died by 1838.
         
        Then the first batches of East Indians were brought to the Caribbean and were to become the first of over half a Million brought to the Region (nearly 240,000 to Guyana) followed by smaller groups of Chinese and more Madeirans.
         
        I believe it is most likely that William Henry Turner may have worked as a Overseer on a Plantation or in a similiar capacity or may have even been Indentured himself.
         
        Indenture would have been harsh so not enticing but work as a Overseer would have been appealing.
         
        Regards
         
        Jon 

        Joanne Schmidt <jcsmitty1212@...> wrote:
        Hi, Everybody:
         
        One nice thing I've discovered while researching my family tree is that when you have an ancestor born in Guyana, he or she will stand out from the rest among tons of data.
         
        I knew from family stories that my great-grandfather, William Henry Turner, was born in Demerrarra, but I had no idea until recently that he also had three siblings born there as well. According to the stories, William's mother was an opera singer on tour in South America when he was born, but my research makes that seem very unlikely.
         
        Here's my data: my g-great grandfather, William Henry Turner, married Sarah Hopkins in London, England in 1839. They must have moved to Demerrarra not long after the wedding. The first-born child, Sarah H., was born in 1941; William H. was born in 1843; Anna M. in 1846, and Allice in 1849. After almost a decade in Guyana, the family emigrated to the United States and settled in New York City. The 1850 census shows them living in New York's Ward 13, with the birthplace of all four children clearly listed as Demerrarra.
         
        Finding that U.S. census data was very important because it not only revealed when the family came to the U.S., but indicated siblings and time spans. I struck out before that trying to find any records from Demerrara itself.
         
        Now I'm curious what motivated the newlywed couple to move to Guyana from England in the first place. I found no record of any opera houses there, but I did find that the British were building a railroad. The New York census only lists my ggrandfather as a "wood picker," so chances are he was a laborer of some kind in Guyana.
         
        However, I'd love to hear from anyone not only about genealogy in Guyana, but what was going on there around 1840 that would attract newlyweds to settle there. Any ideas?
         
        I'm glad to be a part of this board. I hope it proves fruitful for everybody.
         
        Joanne S.
         
         
         
         

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      • Jon - Budmart.co.uk
        Hello Joanne Depending on the numbers of Passengers they may have their Name printed in a Newspaper or Government Gazette but it is more likely that they will
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 21, 2006
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          Hello Joanne
           
          Depending on the numbers of Passengers they may have their Name printed in a Newspaper or Government Gazette but it is more likely that they will only be included in Statistical information i.e. the "so and so" arrived on "such and such" and had the following Passengers - 156 Men, 143 Women, 53 Children and 17 Infants etc.
           
          If they were ill or (although no good to you) they died then they had a better chance of being mentioned as it would give their Name, date of death and cause of death or if they were ill, their illness and where they were being taken for treatment.
           
          Again it depends, if they were a small number of Passengers then the full Passenger List may have been recorded.
           
          Sometimes you can find some Passenger Lists Online such as those at :
           
           
          The Passenger details would be held in Emigration Records which would be held if available at the National Archives in Georgetown and possibly in some detail at the English and Welsh National Archives in Kew, Surrey, England.
           
          There is a better chance of them being mentioned some time after their arrival once they were established in the Newspapers or in the Government Gazettes for any number of reasons, Bank Accounts, money owed, Court cases, Land purchases etc. etc.
           
          The American Civil War lasted from 1861 to 1865 and although the South mostly supported Slavery, two of the States in the Union including Kentucky (Abraham Lincoln's home State) supported Slavery and did not abolish it until the close of the War, Abraham Lincoln was himself a Slave owner and came from the same area of Kentucky as Jefferson Davis, the Confederate President.
           
          Some of the U.S. Territories who at the time were not States also supported Slavery despite fighting on the side of the Union.
           
          Some States fought on both sides such as Kentucky and Missouri and some people in other States and Territories who were firmly part of the Union formed Militias who fought for the South.
           
          New York was definately part of the Union but there may have been some New Yorkers who headed south to fight for the South but they would have been few.
           
          There are a number of Civil War Websites with Army rolls by Regiment and Unit plus List of the Casualties, i have some Muster rolls information somewhere on CD ROM.
           
          Interestingly there were Race Riots in New York during the American Civil War known as the "Draft Riots" where "White" New Yorkers wrongfully accused African-American Refugees of flooding the City and taking advantage thus taking their Jobs and for causing the War from which they were at the time exempt from fighting.
           
          This lead to 3 days of mass Rioting, looting and killing of African-Americans and Immigrants which was finally subdued by the sending in of Union Soldiers and a bombardment by the Navy.
           
          The 1830's and 1840's was a big turning point as it brought about the emancipation of Afro-Guyanese with the ending of Slavery in the British Empire, the intermediate Apprenticeship System where former Slaves were requested to work for 4 more years giving them some time to consider how to replace the Slavery System and the introduction of Indentured Labour which saw mass Immigration to the Caribbean from Asia and Europe.
           
          Although Slavery ended in the British Empire in 1834, the Slave Trade from Africa was abolished in 1807 in the British Colonies.
           
          The French Colonies abolished Slavery in 1848, (it had been previously abolished by Napoleon but his Martiniquen Wife Josephine demanded it be re-introduced) the U.S.A. in 1865 and Cuba and Brazil the last to do so in the Americas but not until the 1880's.
           
          Indentureship which replaced it was to last until 1917, near the end of WWI.
           
          Regards
           
          Jon


          Joanne Schmidt <jcsmitty1212@...> wrote:
          Thanks for the lead, Jon. I'd like to search through the newspapers of the day after my gggrandfather married in 1839 to see when the Turners left and if any mention was made either in the Westminster, London papers of them leaving, or the papers in Demerarra announcing their arrival. Slight chance, I know, but worth exploring.
           
          My ggrandfather fought in the American Civil War, but I don't know on what side--although I suspect, since he lived in New York, that it would have been for the Union. It would be an interesting thing to find out because of the family's background and exposure to slavery in Guyana--or at least the indentured slavery that followed the so-called end of slavery.
           
          Joanne

          "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
          Hello Joanne
           
          Indentureship lasted between 1834 and 1917 and was responsible for the arrival of the Ancestors of most of today's population.
           
          The British Library in Colindale, North London has the biggest Collection of British Newspapers covering all parts of the United Kingdom.
           
          I am not too sure how they recruited the Indentured Servants in Europe, in India and China they approached people around Bazaars, Train Stations and Religious sites that drew large crowds and often rounded up a few people walking about to make up the numbers, in some cases they were kidnapped against their will !
           
          In Europe the approach may have been different and they may have advertised in Newspapers or it could have been a similiar set up and they may have approached people at large gatherings and possibly in Ale Houses.
           
          In some cases it could have been that the Planters had some Labourers working for them in England or put the word out to acquaintances that they were looking for some Men and then decided to Ship them over.
           
          In 1835 small groups of German and English Farmers were recruited.
           
          In 1836, 44 Irish and 47 English Labourers landed in Guyana and in 1837 43 Scottish Labourers arrived from Glasgow.
           
          In 1839 208 Maltese and 121 more Germans were added to the population.
           
          Many of these Labourers did not adapt well to the climate and they suffered from a high mortality rate.
           
          These were in far smaller numbers than those from India so they most likely arrived on normal Passenger Ships rather than the "Coolie" Ships that brought Indentured Labour from India, China and Madeira.
           
          There may be details of departing Ships in the London Gazettes and of their arrival in the Guyana Government Gazettes.
           
          There was a lot of Sea traffic back then but Records were kept of all departures but may be in various places.
           
          The main Port was Liverpool, Passengers from Germany and Malta would have also made their way to Liverpool for Guyana.
           
          It is also possible that related Records or Newspaper reports are kept in Merseyside but i am uncertain.
           
          Have a look at :
           
           
          which is the Liverpool Archives Website, the Archives have a lot of material related to Shipping.
           
          I hope this helps your research.
           
          Regards
           
          Jon

          Joanne Schmidt <jcsmitty1212@...> wrote:
          Thanks, Jon. Indentured service is an interesting suggestion.
           
          I have to wonder if there are still any London-area newspapers from that time in the archives that might have articles on this situation. Were there ads for families to settle there and work on the plantations for a certain contracted time in return for some settlement? The practically neat ten-year residence would fit that scenario.
           
          Would there be lists of families leaving for Guyana in the London newspaper?
           
          It's certainly worth some research.
           
          Thanks again for the suggestion.
           
          Joanne
           


          "Jon - Budmart.co.uk" <budmartuk@...> wrote:
          Hello Joanne
           
          The most possible thing i can think off is to do with Indenture.
           
          After Slavery was abolished in 1834 the British introduced the Indenture System (Slavery with a new Title) where Thousands of people mostly from Asia but also from Europe came to Labour on the Sugar Plantations.
           
          Initially the first Indentured Servants came from Europe - mainly Madeira (Portugal) but also from Ireland, Scotland, Germany, Malta and elsewhere but they were not used to the harsh conditions and had all mostly died by 1838.
           
          Then the first batches of East Indians were brought to the Caribbean and were to become the first of over half a Million brought to the Region (nearly 240,000 to Guyana) followed by smaller groups of Chinese and more Madeirans.
           
          I believe it is most likely that William Henry Turner may have worked as a Overseer on a Plantation or in a similiar capacity or may have even been Indentured himself.
           
          Indenture would have been harsh so not enticing but work as a Overseer would have been appealing.
           
          Regards
           
          Jon 

          Joanne Schmidt <jcsmitty1212@...> wrote:
          Hi, Everybody:
           
          One nice thing I've discovered while researching my family tree is that when you have an ancestor born in Guyana, he or she will stand out from the rest among tons of data.
           
          I knew from family stories that my great-grandfather, William Henry Turner, was born in Demerrarra, but I had no idea until recently that he also had three siblings born there as well. According to the stories, William's mother was an opera singer on tour in South America when he was born, but my research makes that seem very unlikely.
           
          Here's my data: my g-great grandfather, William Henry Turner, married Sarah Hopkins in London, England in 1839. They must have moved to Demerrarra not long after the wedding. The first-born child, Sarah H., was born in 1941; William H. was born in 1843; Anna M. in 1846, and Allice in 1849. After almost a decade in Guyana, the family emigrated to the United States and settled in New York City. The 1850 census shows them living in New York's Ward 13, with the birthplace of all four children clearly listed as Demerrarra.
           
          Finding that U.S. census data was very important because it not only revealed when the family came to the U.S., but indicated siblings and time spans. I struck out before that trying to find any records from Demerrara itself.
           
          Now I'm curious what motivated the newlywed couple to move to Guyana from England in the first place. I found no record of any opera houses there, but I did find that the British were building a railroad. The New York census only lists my ggrandfather as a "wood picker," so chances are he was a laborer of some kind in Guyana.
           
          However, I'd love to hear from anyone not only about genealogy in Guyana, but what was going on there around 1840 that would attract newlyweds to settle there. Any ideas?
           
          I'm glad to be a part of this board. I hope it proves fruitful for everybody.
           
          Joanne S.
           
           
           
           

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